• 12 replies
    marye
    Joined:
    May 26, 2007
    As probably the only person to have managed both the Stones and the Dead, Sam Cutler, as you may imagine, tells some great tales in his book. But also, in a chapter called Yin and Yang, he talks about the profound differences between the two bands, and I was especially struck by this bit: ...Mick Jagger and Keith Richards were supremely gifted media manipulators. These two ostensibly unlikely promo-tarts were experts at self-promotion and publicity, masters at dealing with and manipulating the straight world. In some respects, the straight world had made them. The Dead adamantly refused to believe that they actually needed the straight world and the media to make their whole trip a success. The resolutely aimed themselves at a minority and were unfazed by mass-market tastes or opinions. The Haight-Ashbury district from which the Dead had evolved had been an attempt to create an alternative to straight society. The Rolling Stones were interested in exploiting straight society, not in coming u

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  • November 26, 2017 - 8:42am
    marye
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    May 26, 2007
    had to revisit this to remove some spam
    But in the process was reminded that Sam Cutler's book is pretty great; check it out!
  • January 11, 2016 - 5:32pm
    Byrd
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    China Cat Sunflower
    HazMat Glewed Byrd
  • April 29, 2015 - 8:30pm
    beyondgrateful
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    December 5, 2008
    yeah it`s kind of sad that it
    yeah it`s kind of sad that it was kind of not meant to be- Grateful Dead was a massive statemeant of the hippie movement, but sadly as the deep ecology movement it is just something for some few people to understand and enjoy. All we can do is to go on and not be so involved and reflective of what has been and so it was and so on , it`s in my opinion just to linger on. Somehow it is just a matter of time and willingness to gather up and enjoy together. I never went due to being away from it all, the USA, Europe is for sure just a consumption massive hanging on to the way it has been, men power and making the most economically, it has to be in my and many others a massive revolution towards women`s values like staying together, caring being friendly, putting those spiritual principles in action and live together as we are supposed to be, a big happy family :) we move on and let`s hope some day we stick together, more friendly and caring, LOVE IS ALL YOU NEED
  • March 14, 2011 - 6:09am
    Byrd
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    June 15, 2007
    That was then...this is now...
    ...and no matter how often you ask, you can't get these new Deadmysters to offer a traditional Skull and Roses t-shirt. The whole thing appears to have gone cartoony to me.
  • May 19, 2010 - 11:28pm
    kennyw
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    July 20, 2007
    More's the pity ...
    ... that GD merchandising and customer/fan relations have ended up where they are.
  • May 15, 2010 - 2:13pm
    unkle sam
    Joined:
    October 3, 2008
    90's stones vs 90's dead
    which would you prefer? I think that compairing the stones to the dead is like comparing apples to elephants. Yes, I will concur that the stones in the early years were quite a rock and roll band, but in the later years, lets face it, they suck. No matter what your thoughts are about 90's dead, they certainly never sucked. I totally agree with Sam, the dead were never about making it big, getting that first million, it was about the music, were they not the last San Francisco band to get signed? I also agree with Tigerlilly, things sure did change when a dead show became a place for people to go and be a hippy for a day, altho I did witness some majical events at some of those post MTV shows. I remember the days when there were only 3500 people at the shows and it was like our own little secret, absolutely wonderful and those IMHO are the days that the Dead imbraced and really did create a counterculture all of there own, where all of us "freaks" could come and be renewed, reborn, reenergized, it was a beautiful thing, and one that, unfortunately, had to end due to the media exposure.
  • May 15, 2010 - 6:00am
    Anonymous (not verified)
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    March 29, 2017
    Does anybody know...
    Who had control of the Grateful Dead from say, Brent's death going forward? It is hard to believe that they chose their eventual demise instead of just not touring so much. Of course, I'm glad the Dead didn't turn into a bunch of vampires -- like what I saw with the Stones during the Superbowl half-time show a couple of years ago. It was so bad and such a joke.
  • May 15, 2010 - 5:49am
    TigerLilly
    Joined:
    July 2, 2007
    I think that
    a major turning point for Dead fans being more "alternative" was when "Touch of Grey" etc hit MTV. At shows after that, it seemed that there was a new element of fan, who thought it was hip to play hippie for a night, as opposed to more of a fan-lifestyle like earlier. I think the Stones were also actively promoting an image of it being cool to be "bad and wild", so yes I guess I agree with Sam's evaluation about the Stones being more about marketing all along, and the Dead being more about counter-culture and just making music. UNTIL aforementioned MTV, where the lines, at least superficially, got blurrier. ach blah blah blah, am not sure anymore whether am making any sense with this thought, but will post it nevertheless. ********************************** By trying we can easily learn to endure adversity -- another man's I mean. Mark Twain
  • May 14, 2010 - 3:44pm
    marye
    Joined:
    May 26, 2007
    yeah, pomo
    he was describing a particular period, for sure, and things took different turns.
  • May 14, 2010 - 12:35pm
    Anonymous (not verified)
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    the Stones and others
    These groups from the 60's and 70's were all fabulous in their time: Led Zeppelin, Rolling Stones, Pink Floyd,Jimi Hendricks, Janis Joplin, ,all the Woodstock bands , how lucky we were to be teen agers then and be part of all this new music Rock and Roll ! We also were ecologists and anti-wars militants then ! And aware of how TV manipulated people into ready-made thinking too ! The Grateful Dead was the perfect example of this revolutionary alternative then , until Jerry died .
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As probably the only person to have managed both the Stones and the Dead, Sam Cutler, as you may imagine, tells some great tales in his book. But also, in a chapter called Yin and Yang, he talks about the profound differences between the two bands, and I was especially struck by this bit: ...Mick Jagger and Keith Richards were supremely gifted media manipulators. These two ostensibly unlikely promo-tarts were experts at self-promotion and publicity, masters at dealing with and manipulating the straight world. In some respects, the straight world had made them. The Dead adamantly refused to believe that they actually needed the straight world and the media to make their whole trip a success. The resolutely aimed themselves at a minority and were unfazed by mass-market tastes or opinions. The Haight-Ashbury district from which the Dead had evolved had been an attempt to create an alternative to straight society. The Rolling Stones were interested in exploiting straight society, not in coming u
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However, while I think Sam's description was accurate at the time he was involved, my feeling is that the Dead's vibe morphed into something very different. Whether that was their fault, or just that times changed, or they just became too big, I don't know. "That path is for, your steps alone."
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Jagger had a business Masters from Cambridge or some other snobby, elite, school. He knew where he was taking the Stones. And, Hey, w/complete blood transfers, addiction doesn't have to be a problem -- just a procedure at the end of every tour - albeit an expensive one. But the Dead's different approach to the record business did take some unexpected twists and turns. Most importantly, their visionary policy of letting fans record gave them Phat revenues with every mixed-down release of a past concert remotely acceptable, especially a complete concert.
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These groups from the 60's and 70's were all fabulous in their time: Led Zeppelin, Rolling Stones, Pink Floyd,Jimi Hendricks, Janis Joplin, ,all the Woodstock bands , how lucky we were to be teen agers then and be part of all this new music Rock and Roll ! We also were ecologists and anti-wars militants then ! And aware of how TV manipulated people into ready-made thinking too ! The Grateful Dead was the perfect example of this revolutionary alternative then , until Jerry died .
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he was describing a particular period, for sure, and things took different turns.
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a major turning point for Dead fans being more "alternative" was when "Touch of Grey" etc hit MTV. At shows after that, it seemed that there was a new element of fan, who thought it was hip to play hippie for a night, as opposed to more of a fan-lifestyle like earlier. I think the Stones were also actively promoting an image of it being cool to be "bad and wild", so yes I guess I agree with Sam's evaluation about the Stones being more about marketing all along, and the Dead being more about counter-culture and just making music. UNTIL aforementioned MTV, where the lines, at least superficially, got blurrier. ach blah blah blah, am not sure anymore whether am making any sense with this thought, but will post it nevertheless. ********************************** By trying we can easily learn to endure adversity -- another man's I mean. Mark Twain
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Who had control of the Grateful Dead from say, Brent's death going forward? It is hard to believe that they chose their eventual demise instead of just not touring so much. Of course, I'm glad the Dead didn't turn into a bunch of vampires -- like what I saw with the Stones during the Superbowl half-time show a couple of years ago. It was so bad and such a joke.
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which would you prefer? I think that compairing the stones to the dead is like comparing apples to elephants. Yes, I will concur that the stones in the early years were quite a rock and roll band, but in the later years, lets face it, they suck. No matter what your thoughts are about 90's dead, they certainly never sucked. I totally agree with Sam, the dead were never about making it big, getting that first million, it was about the music, were they not the last San Francisco band to get signed? I also agree with Tigerlilly, things sure did change when a dead show became a place for people to go and be a hippy for a day, altho I did witness some majical events at some of those post MTV shows. I remember the days when there were only 3500 people at the shows and it was like our own little secret, absolutely wonderful and those IMHO are the days that the Dead imbraced and really did create a counterculture all of there own, where all of us "freaks" could come and be renewed, reborn, reenergized, it was a beautiful thing, and one that, unfortunately, had to end due to the media exposure.
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... that GD merchandising and customer/fan relations have ended up where they are.
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...and no matter how often you ask, you can't get these new Deadmysters to offer a traditional Skull and Roses t-shirt. The whole thing appears to have gone cartoony to me.
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yeah it`s kind of sad that it was kind of not meant to be- Grateful Dead was a massive statemeant of the hippie movement, but sadly as the deep ecology movement it is just something for some few people to understand and enjoy. All we can do is to go on and not be so involved and reflective of what has been and so it was and so on , it`s in my opinion just to linger on. Somehow it is just a matter of time and willingness to gather up and enjoy together. I never went due to being away from it all, the USA, Europe is for sure just a consumption massive hanging on to the way it has been, men power and making the most economically, it has to be in my and many others a massive revolution towards women`s values like staying together, caring being friendly, putting those spiritual principles in action and live together as we are supposed to be, a big happy family :) we move on and let`s hope some day we stick together, more friendly and caring, LOVE IS ALL YOU NEED