Grateful Dead

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Mike Edwards's picture
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Joined: Jun 17 2007
Losing my Taijitu

> heartfelt Thank You to marye

First, I'll second that emotion.

> Neither the Buy Side nor the Sell Side determines price exclusively

Secondly, on first principles, I must have misplaced my sense of interdeterminedness when I was writing that post, Mr. Pid. Thanks for helping me get back on that circular track. I'm a generalist, generally, and a poet in particular, who sees the universe as his domain, but more than that, I'm a human being bound by a system of representation, so it's more often than not that I violate Wittgenstein's seventh proposition and select speech acts over passage in silence.

I'm not sufficiently caffeinated to consider a defense of capitalism just yet, but it's percolating on my back burner, right next to the coffee, but not the pot. I will say though that you must have hit my period post 42 in the 30 seconds or so while it existed. As soon as I saw that lone not-blue dot, I knew it had to die, so I inserted a blank in its place, which required a < td > tag, somewhat surprisingly; this system wouldn't allow a non-breaking character on its own.

Mr. Pid's picture
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Joined: Dec 22 2007
On another note

Here is an inexcusably tardy but heartfelt Thank You to marye for adding this topic.

Mr. Pid's picture
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Joined: Dec 22 2007
Post 42, Hymn 43...

and tying in with the DaP #1 cover art theme, Obi-Wan was right. Not surprisingly, so was jonapi regarding trauma as well as Hunter: "Once in a while you can get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right." Perception is bound by perspective.

gratefaldean's picture
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Joined: Jun 22 2007
Post #42

Oh...missed that. I have my settings such that the most recent posts appear at the top of the page, so yours was Post #1 when I read and responded to it. Change in context = change in perception?

Mr. Pid's picture
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Joined: Dec 22 2007
What price, victuals?

The thing about that currency stuff is that it is just one possible proxy for economic value. There are many different implementations of currency, and many perceptions of value that aren't simply economic in essence.

So what is the value of things "like a beautiful sunset, a kind thought or a smile from a stranger?" How about the time and cerebral energy taken to notice, process and appreciate those things. Certainly they have some value, too. And I would dispute assertions that there is no market for the economically intangible. If there weren't, then no one would notice or care about such things. Just because the "payoff" isn't in cash doesn't mean that those things aren't important. In my mind, many of those payoffs are far more valuable than any currency could ever hope to be, simply because there is no way to liquidate them into currency. I certainly hope things never get so bad off that someone can get away with selling tickets to The Sunset.

Now wait a minute there, Pidsterama, I thought you said Time was a dimension! Well, yesindeedledoody I did, but who ever said that a dimension couldn't have value? Time is valuable because it is volatile. Once it's gone, it's gone and nothing's gonna bring it back, it's gone. Well, again, at least until we sort out that whole time travel thing. Then we'll have to revisit this notion and, armed with additional data, those interested in either acquiring or disposing of time will get together and determine what it's worth. To them. At that time.

And a minor structural note on Market Roles, Mr. Edwards. Neither the Buy Side nor the Sell Side determines price exclusively. It takes two to tango (and whether that tangoing happens in Paris or involves butter or margarine is beside the point) and Price occurs at the intersection of two diametrically opposed perceptions of relative value. This holds true regardless of whether the nature of the exchange is goods for cash, goods for goods, cash for cash, or experience for experience. I did enjoy your recent succinct summary of our topic though. As a long-time IT guy, "." to me is shorthand for "current directory."
*edit - [Well, the post was just a dot when I had seen it last prior to penning(keying?) this tome. But I applaud and concur with your use of blank instead. Especially the reasoning behind it. Bingo. Sentience, it's a beautiful thing.]

As far as the notion of Capitalism goes, I'm always troubled when people confuse the symptoms with the disease. I don't find Capitalism as a concept to be inherently evil. The formation and deployment of capital to increase perceived aggregate value and produce greater ease and efficiency for all as well as return for investors is one of the most transformative technologies humans have ever come up with. Much of what we now take for granted in the world, including this medium we are communicating with, is a direct result of applying that technology. It works because it provides an easily understood incentive, a chance to "do better," and boy, do we humans love to "do better." The problems, at least as I see it, arise when some lose the plot on what and why that currency stuff really is, and start to view its accumulation as the point itself. The only point in accumulating proxies for value is to redploy them to create more perceived value. The only way we can get more and bigger slices of pie is to create more pie. Unfortunately, some people seem to think pie is for warehousing instead of eating. Those people, or more appropriately their additudinal attitudes are the problem. Progressive tax rates on accumulated net worth and anti-trust/anti-monopoly laws should help keep that sort of behavior in check. Absolute rather than representative democracy would go a long way in that regard as well.

Splitting checks is fine. Hell, splitting hairs is fine. Just don't split infinitives!

Mike Edwards's picture
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Joined: Jun 17 2007
Tabula Rasa

I left post #42 blank as a space upon which anyone may project their desire, which is the short form of my take on meaning; it's what we make of it.

gratefaldean's picture
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Joined: Jun 22 2007
Uhhh

42?

It bears mentioning, at least. Do you know if you Google "the meaning of life the universe and everything" and click on the I Feel Lucky button, it links to directly to the Wikipedia page entitled "42"? I rest my case.

Mike Edwards, are you now going to edit your post and make this one appear to be a non sequitur?

Mike Edwards's picture
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Joined: Jun 17 2007
The Meaning of Life, the Universe and Everything

 

cosmicbadger's picture
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Joined: Jun 13 2007
Keys to the rain

Dang Mr Edwards ..now I've been wandering around singing 'It's alright ma..' to myself :-)

Marketable things have a price, but what about non marketable things, like a beautiful sunset, a kind thought or a smile from a stranger.

Those pesky economists have even devised a technique for assigning prices to such non market values; they call it (I kid you not) 'Hedonic Pricing'.

'I went to inquire just about how much pain
Was needed to purchase the keys to the rain'

Mike Edwards's picture
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Joined: Jun 17 2007
Loose Lucre

> if money is a proxy for value, does everything then have a price?

Yes, but not until a buyer determines what the thing is worth. For example, if I invent a new gadget, before I bring it to market, it has a value of zero. I might see potential in the thing, but until someone else determines that the thing is worthy of an exchange, it has realized no value. I'd like to add that my understanding of the ways of the world does not imply an endorsement of these things, cosmicbadger; I'm with you in thinking that the human need to to profit and accumulate, to CAPITALIZE, will long be the bane of human development. Like incognito says...my favorite price is free...but that doesn't mean I'm looking for things that have no value. Like these Bob Dylan lyrics. Just sitting on the web waiting for a prankster to turn the spotlight on, royal tea free:

Old lady judges watch people in pairs
Limited in sex, they dare
To push fake morals, insult and stare
While money doesn’t talk, it swears
Obscenity, who really cares
Propaganda, all is phony

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Life, the Universe and Everything