Grateful Dead

Mother Earth Topic

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 suggested by Stuman: How about a forum deadicated just to our Mother Earth ? A place where we can talk specificly about recycling tips, reusing of what we can`t recycle and reducing waste. And other enviromental issues. I'm actually surprised we don't have something like this. Greenpeace and other groups have always been around the shows (at least the shows I remember) . And the GD has been into saving the rainforest and saving our Mother Earth. So lets talk about it here. Earth Day should be every day!! what do you all think abt it?

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lamagonzo (not verified)
heard on the radio

comments about the stark choices facing a planet in peril. it is clear that because the world's leaders did not have the collective will to act 20 years ago there is a very clear result coming that will be magnitudes worse if we don't impose strict controls going forward. massive population transfer over international borders due to such issues as lack of water. the human suffering will be staggering.

the corporate drive for profit is killing us, killing our mother the earth but most of us do nothing but feed the machine. i don't want to see another plastic bag or empty water bottle.

human civilization could be so much more

give up the death culture, it is nothing but babylon

embrace your mother earth in the kiva, the sweatlodge, the sacred dance -- she is calling you

dogwagen's picture
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Joined: Jan 25 2010
The Answer my friend is blowing in the Wind

Worked on several windfarms in Kansas and Wyoming and never saw one dead raptor maybe the occasional prairie chicken but that was after they flew into the side of my worktruck.
Chernobyl is the perfect example as to why we shouldn't do nuclear, plus the rods take several thousand years to "cool" off in the earth would like to know the cask that will contain them and not break down when placed into the ground.Studies are still conducted around Chernobyl and boys she is hot. Even through several feet thick concrete still emitting lots of radiation and will continue long past our lifetimes.

noonie's picture
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Joined: Jul 31 2007
i think

if someone is really that against nuclear power should not use it.

lamagonzo (not verified)
thanks Badger...

...for the links on wind turbines impacting raptors. As you say, careful design and siting would take care of the problem.

To say that wind power is simply not an option because of the impact on wildlife is inane.

Sure, we could go all-in for nukes and maybe that would be a short-term solution (& the US is all about short-term profit) but the long-term consequences far outway cheap, abundant energy to make further expansion of things that do emit greenhouse gases possible.

An article in the paper about China says they are going whole-hog in every direction and that 67% of their energy is projected to come from coal. This is to support a 15% jump in power use each year in China. The Chinese will bury us all unless somebody perfects fusion or hydrogen quickly. The writing is on the wall here folks.

Maybe you can say "small is better" in developed countries, but you can't say it to them in China...

cosmicbadger's picture
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Joined: Jun 13 2007
Impact of wind turbines on birds and bats

It IS an issue of concern, but one that can be mitigated by careful design and siting of the turbines. There have been some very serious impacts on raptors where they concentrate on migration.

You will find a very comprehensive report on the US situation here

http://www.abcbirds.org/abcprograms/policy/wind/wind_policy.html

You can see an interesting video on the hideous impact of the turbines at the Altamont Pass (which kills 1300 raptors per year) ..here

http://www.epaw.org/multimedia.php?lang=en&article=b1

The impact on bats is less well studied, but appears to be far worse, as the movement and sound of the blades appears to attract them. I guess some people not care much about bats, but being nocturnal creatures, us badgers get on very well with them. Here is a useful link

http://www.bats.org.uk/pages/wind_turbines.html

If you want to know the impact of nukes on wildlife, look up some of the Chernobyl reports

it pays to get informed :-)

ka.swan (not verified)
about nukes

i don't care what nukes freaks say but me i live in France daily and i don't want all these nukeplants in my country ! common sense have me look at History and what happened these last 3 OOO years to back up the idea that humans are capable to take care of nukes rejects for centuries to come ? these morons selling us nukes as the only way to go civilezed are outright criminals who , for money now, couldn't care less it nukes poisoned France forever later ! now i don't claim i know the answers about the best technologies to invent , however no one could ever convince me that nukes are the smart answer for humanity and this only planet they got !

lamagonzo (not verified)
Enough education here, Gr8ful...

...to know that something that comes out of the ground almost harmless and gets refined into plutonium, the deadliest substance on earth, can't go back into a hole in the ground without a huge liability. We have NO WAY of projecting the lifespan of containment. 50,000 years? Please give me the elemental composition of the cask that will hold it... perhaps your son will have a good answer for that.

It doesn't make you look very good to question somebody's education, Gra8ful, It actually makes you like you don't have any facts to support your case. Like raptors are going extinct because of wind power... Care to state your supporting evidence on that?

I could say something else here, but I won't.

cosmicbadger's picture
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Joined: Jun 13 2007
wind power

its all the rage in Europe. Us conservationists have expressed our concerns about the impact on birds and bat and there have been some changes in design and location of wind farms. The UK has just gone ahead with contracts for offshore wind farms that will provide 25% of national energy needs and creating 70,000 jobs

see www.windenergyplanning.com/3rd-round-of-uk-offshore-wind-farms-announced/

Here in France 70% of power comes from nuclear and electricity bills are low, but I am sure they do not cover the real cost of storing the waste forever.

I am astonished that Pres Obama is backing the nukes. I thought his vision was to create a new tech business explosion on renewables. With your climate and vast open spaces it seems a no brainer. .

Gr8fulTed's picture
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Joined: Jul 9 2007
Whoa gonzo, nuclear power is good and clean

Don't know your educational background, but nuclear energy is a very good option we are waiting for the Obama administration to pursue and probably subsidize. Uranium comes out of the ground, and it can go back into the ground: tell your Nevada buddy Harry Reid to get with it.
It's the fossil fuel industry that is reluctant to give up their stranglehold on America with the coal-fired plants, the strip-mining, etc. I'm sure you are familiar w acid rain and it's effect on eastern USA vegetation, not to mention what dirty air does to our lungs. My bro-in-law works for a power company and he's still locked into coal... and votes Republican.
I'm all for wind power and sun power: There are lots of blades spinning out here in Kansas, and I'm very concerned about the impact on migratory bird populations, including golden eagles, red-tailed hawks, burrowing owls and other raptors. If you've never seen and appreciated the golden eagle, it is an incredibly powerful bird, and rarely seen, compared to bald eagles.

lamagonzo (not verified)
Don't think it's ecologists...

... as much as oil & gas & nuke lobbyists that are in the way of alternatives. Looking at the funding of some of the groups claiming to be "green" and "low carbon emissions" and you don't have to drill down (excuse the pun) very far to see the corporate funding behind them.

I'm in favor of massive wind turbines out west in the US and on a smaller scale in the eastern rural areas. People who want unobstructed views of ridge-lines in every direction, and think they are entitled to them, piss me off. The NIMBYs are just selfish.

Where there is a real concern for the extinction of a species we need to look closely. But, it is almost never the case.

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Mother Earth Topic