• 128 replies
    marye
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    In today's Today in Deadhead History, aud mentions a show she never wants to revisit, even on tape, because the scene was so ugly. And I think the same is true of various shows for a lot of us. Thug security. Gate crashers. Drunken concertgoers puking on your bare feet. You know. Bad scenes. Post here.

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  • May 12, 2013 - 7:40am
    hockey_john
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    Bad scenes......
    There were many many bad scenes at shows.I think we became a target when we became so popular in the late 80's 87 threw the end. For me, am forever Grateful I got off tour in 89. We lost many friends to over dose and car accidents. Also many went to prison.I knew that I was on borrowed time.One day to the next was always the way we lived. Looking back I am glad I dependant on a substance that got me sober. If not my family would of buried me long ago.All that said when I first got on tour in I would say summer of 82.I was told by old time hippies that the best way to present yourself is to never stand out. DO NOT be the first one in town when on the road DO NOT dress like many others do.Why because we stood out. Kind of hard to hide in plain sight.With hair to my middle of my back and never having enough money for things like clothing or a place to live it got harder and harder to stay out of plain sight. I will NEVER EVER forget my one dear friend who happened to big time player in our world pulled me aside one time on the Haight and gave me a talking to. I was told the way I was living was going to draw to much attention to myself and those around me so " I better cut the shit". This person was more then kind to me over the years. So much so that once I did get sober and back to my home state she would call my family to see how I was doing from time to time.That's love people real unconditional love. They say in AA we must change our friends... they are correct but we had something very similar to the fellowship of AA. WE CARED ABOUT EACH OTHER with love and kindness. There many a shows where someone would get arrested for doing what had to do to survive.When this would happen the hat would be passed to raise the bail money. No one cared whether they would get that cash back it was for the love of one another that we would raise the needed cash. To mention a few times Poplar creeke 83,never knew the person but kicked down as much I could afford. Chicago in spring of 87. Irvine in 86 . Even once I was sober in mid 90's i got a call to kick in for a family friend. I would like to say I am forever grateful to all how cared for my well being and the check ins and follow up threw the early 90's We REALLY really Loved each other.
  • June 14, 2012 - 11:42am
    red feather
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    ventura dead shows
    ahhh....Ventura and the dead. kinda like milk and cookies only better. I do remember hearing lot stories about sum man comitting suicide. I believe he had mental problems and im sure mixed with a variety of chemicals floating around the shows could have contributed to it.. I think that was the sat. afternoon show in 85.Other than that didnt hear about people dying. i do know the closet liquor store to fairgrounds had a 3 block long line waiting to just get in the store.On top of that they didnt have any cold beer or ice.. this Liquor loved the dead as the owner was a able to pay a years worth of rent from those 2 days. made even more wen in 87 they played three shows. 86 getting there on fri. morning and hundreds of heads walking around bummed cuz jerry was in a coma..shows were cancelled that year. i do know their was some incredibly clean doses to be had every time they played there.
  • October 24, 2011 - 3:02pm
    davey concepci…
    Joined:
    August 7, 2007
    Cincy Who, 12.3.79
    Wow. Just saw this thread thanks to the new post about Ventura. I read a few posts, and wasn't surprised to see the Who's Cincinnati concert mentioned. Sadly, I was there - had just turned 20, last day before finals, my last adventure for moving to D.C. for a semester, and absolutely pumped to see the Who. Those were the days of when bands regularly sold out large arenas (Who, Floyd, Stones, Zeppelin and even acts like the Doobies and Steve Miller, etc etc), so getting there early was just how it was done - - nearly every venue close to my hometown - Lexington, KY - did festival seating. THe Who show was no different except the "wait" was something out of a horror movie. No room, hard to breathe, cold, people shedding those big puffy down jackets and getting them tangled in your legs. I remember me and my buddy getting squeezed out of the mass of people, literally gasping for breath, and then telling two of Cincy's finest how awful it was. I have hard time blaming them as it was just not that unusual - sure Cincy was bad, always was, because of its make up, and though that night was particularly rough, it just seemed typical. Anyway, finally got in - a great show. Townshend himself said it was one of the best shows they'd ever played in the news interviews. We were driving back home listening to WEBN (the local cool FM station) and the DJ saying "If you were at the show, pull over, call home and let your parents and friends know you are safe. Eleven people were killed at the show." Remember, this was back before mobile phones - every exit we got off had long lines to use pay phones, so we just decided to drive back and call from the dorm. I got back to my dorm (finals still going on) and there were notes taped on their from my girlfriend, parents, grandparents, and uncle in Oregon, all saying to call. I had no clue, but my parents had called tons of folks to ask them to pray for me and my friends. They had found out when Walter Cronkite and CBS News broke into regular programming to announce the tragedy. So, my parents had to wait 3 or 4 hours to learn I was safe. I remember within a week or so, the ROlling Stone came out with the Who Tragedy as the cover with the faces of all the kids who had died due to the incompetence of the arena management. I remember being just dazed that I had been there, that maybe I had stepped on one of them (who knows), but that I had been fortunate enough to survive. I attended hundreds of shows after that - - but NEVER did I go with a festival seating ticket again (except lawns at sheds). WOrst Dead show experience was Raleigh at Carter Finley, 7.10.90. Lots of drunks, bad weather, Band played lousy, and tough cops. But, no one died. I've got friends who were at Deer Creek in 7.2.95 (onmly 3 hours from Lex.) - hardly a surprise given how Dead shows had devolved into lunacy since 91. Wasn't the "In the Darkers", but a dark element that really hit those tours hard. Reason why my last show was an indoors - Charlotte, 6.18.92. Now, seeing THE DEAD (and prior post-Jerry incarnations), reminds me of seeing them in the 70s and 80s . . . some venues still a huge deal (mostly on coasts), but could still see them in a reasonable place without insame crowds. Just my two cents and memories. DCHOF aka The Wharf Rat Cyclone
  • October 24, 2011 - 11:58am
    Anonymous (not verified)
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    I heard from a "friend of the chief" in Ventura...
    ...that the last time they played there, 87 I believe, so many people died the town decided to deny further permitting at the Ventura County Fairgrounds for the Grateful Dead. Does anybody have any memory of what exactly happened? How many people died? Why? It's just morbid curiosity and to see if there is truth there.
  • July 15, 2011 - 10:38am
    marye
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    wow
    pretty scary, glad you made it out OK as the first thing I was thinking was the Who in Cincinnati also!
  • July 14, 2011 - 4:19pm
    friscokid77
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    Worst Concert was Pink Floyd
    Hey Stardancer!I was at that show [Pink Floyd, JFK Philadelphia 1987] I remember standing outside the gates waiting to get in. They were at least a half an hour late opening the gates, and the crowd was starting to grow in numbers, and in anger. I was close to the front and was starting to get crushed. people behind us started throwing full beer cans toward the gates, but were hitting fans in the heads. When the gates finally did open, there was such a RUSH to get in, that I was literally swept off my feet. I went through the turnstiles (along with probably a couple hundred other people) with my feet NOT touching the ground! I never gave anyone my ticket, I was never searched ... it was leterally like riding a wave of people. I was never so scared in my life! The whole time, I just kept thinking of the Who in Cincinatti. I remeber seeing people in front of me landing on their feet, and running out of the way, so that's what we all did. We hit the ground running. Very F'd up!! And after all that, it Poured during the encore! However, me and my buddies had extra tickets ... ;o) So everything in between the stampede and the rain was very cool! Peace, Chris
  • March 5, 2011 - 2:24pm
    marye
    Joined:
    May 26, 2007
    fine
    enough with the abusive verbiage. Thank you. People can comment about politics to their hearts' content, American or otherwise, in the appropriate topic, particularly the current events topic (this topic has more to do with bad concert scenes). TL's comments have not risen to the level of "spewing" and for you to assert that they do is bordering on personal attack. Cut it out. Thank you. Please move the discussion of politics to the current events topic. ME the mod
  • March 5, 2011 - 1:50pm
    Anonymous (not verified)
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    re: No mention of the Frankfurt shootings on Wednesday?
    On March 4th, 2011 TigerLilly said: "And what the heck was that 1940's comment supposed to mean ratsnkats" How about I send ya a PM and spell it out for ya? You said in an earlier post: "I don't wanna move back to the Glorious U.S. of A." Yeah, you're right, the U. S. of A. is a Glorious nation, regardless of your lame attempt at sarcasm. I say good for you, don't move back, we'll get by without you here, believe me. I'm a Deadhead, AND I love my country; why you keep spewing about American politics on this site is beyond me. Pffffffffffffffffft! this.
  • March 4, 2011 - 12:45pm
    TigerLilly
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    July 2, 2007
    it was a terrorist act, yes
    of an individual nutcase. And what the heck was that 1940's comment supposed to mean ratsnkats ********************************** I am not young enough to know everything. Oscar Wilde
  • March 3, 2011 - 6:31pm
    Anonymous (not verified)
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    I mentioned it
    Trouble Ahead, Trouble Behind Current events thread, in the middle of a long rant on a bad day. Two were killed instead of 4. The Gerans have their head up their ass on this -- it was a a terrorist incident!
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In today's Today in Deadhead History, aud mentions a show she never wants to revisit, even on tape, because the scene was so ugly. And I think the same is true of various shows for a lot of us. Thug security. Gate crashers. Drunken concertgoers puking on your bare feet. You know. Bad scenes. Post here.
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That was the show I mentioned, 8-2-76. We were already a bit leery of Hartford, having heard some not-so-good tales of problems at Dillon Stadium, so we were a little on edge to begin with. But the problems we saw, I'd never seen anywhere else - drunken crazy people THROWING BOTTLES AT THE STAGE, fighting down front got so out of control we had to extract ourselves and head for the back of the field. Never in all the years since did I experience a crowd that nasty and ugly at a GD show. and the bad acid my pals did that night didn't help a bit!
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In April of 1989 i spent 3 or 4 days in pittsburgh having tix for the sunder night show. hit to parking lot on saturday and things were not too bad. did some "shopping" there and headed back to where we were staying-a friend's apartment. the next day the news was screaming all about the scene at the show-gate crashers-naked people running the streets, fights, garbage, etc. I remmeber crying and wondering why anyone would want to ruin OUR beautiful scene. who were these people. there were rumors of the show sundey being cancelled, but it went on as scheduled, but there was more security and more cops than needed, in my opinion. scary scene indeed. nothing left to do but smile, smile, smile
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Can't remember the year. Last time the Dead were allowed to play the Civic Arena. Fans were bad, but cops were worse. They beat fans for no paticular reason and caused much havoc. I always hated Pittsburgh, but the band seemed to enjoy playing there. Why?, I don't know.
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by dewlover. I think this qualifies as a really bad scene: Posted: August 14, 2007 - 7:09am INJURED COP AT RatDog SHOW As some of you may already know, during the RatDog set, the actions of some maniac at the Gathering on Saturday night resulted in a Bridgeport, Ct., police officer being injured...The following is a mailing address, as well as eMail for you to send some healing Vibes to that man who was just trying to do his job: Deputy Police Chief James Honis Bridgeport Police Deparment 300 Congress St Bridgeport, CT 06604 honisj0@ci.bridgeport.ct.us
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I heard about how horrible the cops were at that Pitt show. My sister saw a girl getting clubbed. I went to a show there in '90 that was pretty heavy too, but not like the one I think that you're talking abouty.
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It was spring tour 89, I was 16 years old and stuck outside with ALOT of folks when the crowd decided to rip a cple windows out of the civic center to get in. I was still early to the scene and guess I didnt yet realize what it was like to HAVE to get in.
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the day they confiscated a ton of my really cool stickers, which was how I supported the bus in those days. They were ready to boot me out of the parking lot. they had a bunch of folks rounded up, I stuck my ticket in my shoe, and we were waiting for the paddy wagon. fuckers working security were laughing at us, making jokes about people's hair and shit like that. talking ABOUT us right in front of us like we were circus sideshow freaks or zoo animals and like we couldn't understand English, or those guys were just such rude, dumbasses they didn't care about hurting people's feelings. I remember one of the yellow coated security dicks pulled out a pocet knife and threated to cut some dudes hair off. a really, really bad scene. anyway, the paddy wagon shows up, and they filled it. I was still sitting on the ground, and since it was 'full' they let me walk away. I am not sure if this was the same tour where some of those security dicks chased down some head and made him run into traffic or something like that. some of the upper ups at Byrne or the security chiefs or those particular guards tried to cover up that tragedy; but eventually karma got into it because their actions that caused the death of an innocent head came to light. "What's the point of calling shots, this cue ain't straight in line Cue balls made of styrofoam and no-one's got the time"
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Or what goes around, comes around, however you want to look at it. Took awhile, but the truth that everyone already knew came out. John Schers very own yellow jackets. Bad scene, indeed. I remember those stickers, Joe. Probably talked to you, just dont remember, you now how it goes. As bad as Byrne became, MSG could get pretty heavy too. They would use the horses on people and fuck them up but good. Saw it in the early 80's at least.
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Hi Stella, I'd like to point out that that sticker design was not original, I do not know who designed it, but I copied it using a silk screen and made the stickers myself. (that's why they look kind of sloppy) muchos kudos and thankx to whoever designed it, it kept the bus on the road. all I had to do was walk around turning the sticker right side up and then upside down to show that you could read grateful dead even when it was inverted; those suckers sold themselves. I traded a bunch of them, too, usually for food that people were cooking up or beers in the lean years... one kind of surreal thing I remember about the MSG shows, was how the cops would be out on fatboy Harleys, out in force-- what seemed at the time like 50 bikes, driving around and around the 'round' and "round" garden again and again before or after shows. peace.
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Go Vegetarian Vegan, no meat, no dairy, then you got less bad karma. Life can be heaven or heck, depending upon what you do, what goes around, comes around; At least I try. Things are much better now that I am back to being a vegetarian, and better yet a vegan. Hey, I know what I need, another....... But if you do go Vegetarian Vegan, make certain you get at least 100 to 300 mg of all the B Vitamins (and at least 25,000 mcg of B12), PER DAY, and 1000 IU of Vit D, 500 mg Vit C, for Vit A drink a pint of carrot juice, some multi minerals, and 400 IU of Vit E. But VEGETARIANS must get Vit B suplements (B1, B2, B3, B6, B12), else they get real depressed (lack of Vit B especially), as its hard to find in the Vegetarian world (a bit in seaweed, and bananas, but not enough). It was fashionable to go vegetarian in the 1930's, the latest craze, but many became very depressed. And also I like to take Melatonin, around 15 mg before bed. OH, and ballancing your pH with good quality WATER between meals, can restore you pH by neutralizing all those low pH acids you consume, like orange juice, soda, alcohol, tomatoes, carrots, meat and dairy products, its all dangerous because its all low pH, how can your body tollerate and bunch of acids you feed it? Water to the rescue. Then your less apt to get a bunch of trash from people. Example, I was a cab driver for a while in Las Vegas, and I would drink some coffee (low pH acidic) for my first ride, and they would bug me "driver why are you going this way", "faster driver", "were stopped and the meter is still running driver", then after the first ride, I would drink some water (high pH netralizes acids, like the coffee) with a water bottle cap full of baking soda (real high pH, and cheap, and good for you), mix that up, and the next ride was a charm, "oh driver you good, thanks driver", SO, WHAT YOU CONSUME, IS HOW THE WORLD TREATS YOU. Serve more high pH stuff at Dead Concerts; hey, and pass out B Vitamins, of course a little bit of acid is ok, it just takes a little bit, to go along way, just ballance it out. Music for the New Millennium by ARCHURE reg tmrk www.archure.net
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seems like the daze back in again from the wild wild west... ) -; who is with me on that one? peace.
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vaguely remember a lot of horses at different shows. but the jfk(last show there ever) i was feeling good and kept asking the pigs if i could pet the horses. got some nasty ass looks for sure, but did take some pictures of the poorly treated animals too. also, anyone do the further fests of 98 or after at MONTAGE MOUNTAIN. there was some bad shit there too. i think it was 99 or 2000, the horses were not happy to be there. pulled a young brother out from underneath one of them just in time. he was about to be trampled waiting for a shuttle down the mountain. not a good scene and i know a lot of heads dissed the place soon afterwards. it really gets GESTAPO there for most any show. nothing left to do but smile, smile, smile
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heaven knows, cops have a fucking tough job to do out in the streets and highways of the good old US of A. The mounted police are trained specifically for crowd control and it is one of the toughest things to do in general. anyone who has ever been in New Orleans during Mardi Gras knows what I am talking about. but I think the problem with most cops at shows, mounted or otherwise, I think they could never see the difference between a crowd of heads and a crowd of Metallica fans. or the rap fans, or the Monster Truck folks or Hockey fans who would get drunk and be much more prone to violence - misbehavior (on a case by case basis of course) than any deadhead crowd. rent a cops are a totally different story, unfortunately. ) -;
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I believe it was the way we looked more than the way we acted in the 80's, but in the 90's, I believe we as a whole got way out of control. Gate crashers and so on started putting a damper on the whole Peace thing.
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I don't know why someone would want to post this topic. Shouldn't we be remembering the good times and scenes, and forgetting about the bad? I know I had my run-ins with Johnny along the way, but I try to put it past me. Perhaps that's my own way of heeling, but I see no benefit to this particular discussion.
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Yeah, we were certainly judged on our looks and our lifestyle in general. At least the trippy looking ones. I once had a cop say to me that he didn't understand why we had those little bags around our necks and friendship bracelets etc... as it was a dead give away that we were holding. He said he always knew he would find something on anyone who dressed like that. The getting out of control thing is a bit complicated. Gatecrashing was mostly done by people who were not tourheads. As was littering. The increase in heroin use in the early nineties by tourheads was a big problem. Gatecrashing seemed like a reaction to the constant harrassment by the authorities. Take Pittsburg in 92' as an example. There was big harassment of vendors all day before the show. The vendors feed the crowds etc... and were a big reason so many came to shows. Vendors (of all sorts) were a big and unacknowledged part of the success the Grateful Dead enjoyed during those days. When the locals come into a lot where there is police (or whoever) harrassing the tourheads they feel the vibe massively. When u see cops cracking heads of kind folks for selling a bag or whatever, u want to do something! It makes a bad scene and the vibe can easily turn into a rebellion of sorts with many going over the fence or breaking it down. Rebellion takes many forms. People want to feel free. We shouldn't be surprised when young people especially react in that way. Many of the less experienced heads even would have had the impression that the Dead would have given a wink towards gate crashing in the spirit of shared anarchy (as I heard many gatecrashers say at SPAC in 88'). Better communication might have helped. Most of the harrassment from venue owners or cops etc.., was prejudice. Trying to make some big thing out of whatever. Irvine in 88' with the so called riot for example. There was no riot! I was there, right in the middle of the so called riot. Banning camping didn't work. It was just an undeserved kick in the ass for tourheads and the locals still trashed shit. The Dead organisation should have been thinking big at this point. They should have organised their own series of festivals across the US every year where they controlled the venue. In a farmers fields, for instance. Lots of mini-Woodstocks across the US. Plus extra European tours, or world tours even. Plus the normal venues that were ok with the way things had previously been. If Bill Graham was serious about keeping the scene clean I don't know why he didn't have someone from the scene who he gave thirty tickets to who organised a clean up crew. There were folks who did this but they were only given garbage bags to my knowledge. And from how I remember it the heads were behind that, not the band organisation. The heroin use was weird. It destroyed the scene. The price in the Bronx went from ten a bag to five as the avaliability increased. It was a problem in the ghetto as well as the scene. A couple of shady characters popped up in the scene distributing that shit. I do wonder if the man was behind that. The timing was pretty strange. Just as there was a second flowering around the time of the anniversary of the summer of love. Are you kind?
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I think one reason for this topic is the time-honored Those Who Fail To Learn From History Are Doomed To Repeat It. Another is that people like to talk about it. I don't think it's good to obsess about the bad stuff, but I don't think sweeping it under the rug serves any purpose either. It WASN'T all wonderful--for example, by general agreement Red Rocks was as good as it gets on every front, and yet when I was there in 1987 one of the first things I saw was Barry Fey's goons dragging a bunch of hippies out of their van and starting to beat them because, apparently, they weren't zippy enough about showing their tickets to get into the parking lot.
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Fair enough Marye; but you can always watch The Stones' movie about Altamont if you want a history lesson on bad scenes. I think Jerry was even in it briefly describing the scene as having some sort of particulate matter in the air. Definitely a history lesson to be learned for sure, but I always thought hippies to be far more intelligent than to repeat the faux pas of their elders. I guess time has proven that theory to be invalid as well. Here's to learning from history, and not repeating it!
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quotes: "Those Who Fail To Learn From History Are Doomed To Repeat It!""Here's to learning from history and not repeating it!" ( u mean the bad bits obviously) Here here!!! :) (how many times did I hit my head on that oil lamp?) May the blessings of wisdom sprinkle upon all of the extended Grateful Dead family wherever u are! You are all loved! Are you kind?
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I got a chance to hit the east coast running in 92 and the show I saw in Burgettstown PA it was a logistical nightmare. (parking,security,vending,etc...) No more Burgettstown Shows I was at Irvine 89 when 2 bikers got in to it and you can hear the ambulances on the aud tapes (2nd set ater d/s)(I think there was a knife involved) No more Irvine after that I was also at the LA Forum in 89 and some poor spaced out kid died in the back of a patrol car.... No more LA forum shows I was at Cal State Dominquez Hills in 1990 and some gal left the concert and took her life...No more CSDH shows.. I think the letter passed out (from GDP) at the CalExpo run in 88 or 89 said it all. "You created this sceene, you'll end this sceene." There were similiar letters that went around the parking lots before and after, but the oneI got around that time I still have in my collection somewhere and it rings true. I saw some great shows but unfortunatly I saw them at the last times they band would play these great venues.
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"You created this sceene, you'll end this sceene." Well, to me this was typical example of bad communication. At this point on tour the crowds were so big the band couldn't just go walking out in the lot to see what was up themselves. They had to rely on info from band management and others who obviously didn't know the real deal or were just coming at the problem from a money angle. The quote above seems like a big cop out. Putting the blame on others. Who is the YOU??? The band, the management and the heads created the scene. It's all one!!! I can't imagine the band would have worded it that way. Sure things happen at shows. Not just Dead shows either. Dead shows were renown for being peaceful and family-like compared to other bands concerts. But when u have a town sized crowd there will always be incidents. Like in a real town there will be deaths, there will be babies born etc..! OK, but it IS a bit different obviously! The media reports after Irvine 89' were all about a riot at the front gate. I don't remember any about two bikers fighting but I can imagine it being commented upon. There was no riot as I mentioned. Fights happen, everywhere and anywhere. That's life. The fact is that the pigs of this world wanted to stop the second flowering of the sumer of love which the Dead and the deadheads were at the forefront of. A lot of those venues seemed to be run by pigs or they folded under pressure from pigs. We shouldn't forget how Bush 1 started the persecution of deadheads on a nationwide federal level. He was in the CNN tower, Atlanta during a Dead show and saw the heads out the window in the lot below. He commented that he thought that stuff had died out with the 60s and that he was disgusted by it and that something had to be done to stop it. The birth of Operation Dead End. The effort of the feds to destroy the scene. Pressure on concert venues, flooding the lot with cheap heroin, busting masses of young kids dealing in the lot and giving them 20 year sentences, spreading misinformation to confuse folks and make them not trust each other. If there were not enough portatoilets or garbage receptacles then who is responsible? You or the management? If some locals got to drunk on bud and had a fight at the show instead of at the local bar and pee'd on someones lawn who is responsible? You or them? If a lost soul od's because they had a shit upbringing in a hard world who is responsible? You or the kid, the parents, the system? The tourheads were the best audience a band could dream of. They were the ones reading those stupid flyers, not the locals who made the little problems. What a slap in the face! The ones behind the flyers should have been doing more to help the scene, they didn't do their job properly. And as for the feds... who are they serving that they put kids into prison for 20 year terms? You? I think not! We did SO MUCH good!!!!! I am proud of that and so should everyone involved! Somehow the band picked up on it despite the misinformation too! When they would sing, we will get by, don't u let that deal go down and such lines in times when many had been busted on a particular day etc..! Don't buy the misinformation about why we couldn't play certain venues KJ7XJ and family!!! Peace!!! Are you kind?
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I noticed that the crowds (NYC, LI, NJ, MD, PA and CT) started to get rowdier towards the late 80's. I saw more "Frat Guys" that couldn't hold their beer causing trouble as the 80's wore on. MSG and Giants Stadium / Meadowlands got pretty ugly at times. If you crossed the NJ Turnpike in the elevated walkway you know what I mean.
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True, u have brought back a strange rememberance there. That elevated walkway..! Weird scenes inside the gold mine indeed! Are you kind?
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what was the dealio with the elevated walkway ???? i was never in it, at least i don't think i was. ?memory? nothing left to do but smile, smile, smile
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Lots of people 'mooing" in the walkway after the show as we were herded like cattle back to the parking lot. Always a strange and fun experience to end the evening.
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Marye,i do not want to sound to clever,but when you take a seriouse dose of ...than the action of this substance,which starts to enter your system might in some cases induce a very heavy nausea,which as we all know ends up on the floor in little pieces!.... is very powerful and i think it is not fair to stick the people whose body cannot handle it,into the most horrible events column.after walking barefoot on the parking-lot all day,you have to wash your feet anyway.
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I agree with the 'frat boys' there for the parking lt scene and the broken glass everywhere.......so unsafe I was always ashamed to think that DHs were so slovenly, uncaring, and unsafe! My last show at RFK '95- the police had on RIOT GEAR as they cattled us out of the show. Sooooooo uncalled for and utterly unecessary. I was made to feel criminal. The scene absolutely changed for the worse at most venues as each decade went on. Stadiums in the major cities, yea, there's always a certain police presence- but even outdoor shows in the 80's and 90's got more hostile. it wasn't even the ability of DHs not practicing what they preached, it was a lot of others infiltrating the scene and making it turn bad....Ami
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i followed all the east coast some west alot of mid east shows from 84-95-went to all the last shows,ive got stories to every show,everytime i left ky to go to shows something wild happenedgood things bad things wierd things i never went to a boring dead show i partied in the lot,made friends money love, a lot of times i even made it in the show,got drunk,high,busted,good food,lost,found,and turned around,i came out broke,but anytime i get bored i can sit and think of all those"trips"out on the road and its better than cable t.v ! i tried telling my neighbor some of it and he dont beleive it but he says theirs no way you could come up with stories like that, my whole point is you have to remember the bad.its part of the whole experiance as i look back at the storm at the last st.louis show,the gate crashers of deercreek,the unbeleivable alpine parking/vending restrictions,even when i did90days in the cook co. "motel" at the very last soldier feild show i just have to think ---what a long strange trip it was !!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I was lucky to have missed the truly bad scenes but the 2 that stand out were Richmond '85. the beginning of rowdy, crowded shows (in the '80s at least). I was standing by a door when some DHs broke thru and the crowd began streaming in without tix, including my buddy beside me. I couldn't move, was sure they'd be rounded up and sent back out and maybe something inside me was telling me it was the wrong thing to do. in any event, my buddy made it in, had a great time and I got to walk around outside watching cops bust people left and right and had a huge angry dude with an aluminum baseball bat wave it in my face for being too close to the building. oh yeah, I had already dosed with the expectation of scoring a $15 face value ticket so the whole thing pretty much sucked. the other was 1st night of Hampton '87. only had tix for the 2nd and 3rd nights so I was happy to hang out in the parking lot where the party was getting started. but it was very mellow, you know, pre-In the Dark and just what we were used to. nothing close to being out of hand. luckily I had met friends and we, for some reason, got into their car to do bong hits. just down the row was a van with huge speakers pumping out "Estimated prophet" with some folks boogeying and just hanging out when all of a sudden a paddy wagon rolls up and cops are coming from everywhere. those poor DHs didn't know what hit 'em. I saw a dude dragged down and arrested, cops were brandishing night sticks and slapping cuffs on anyone they could. people were just scattering and we, of course, put the bong down and just watched in horror, finally, when it had calmed down a little, one cop was walking around and noticed us and said, "stay in that car if you know what's good for you!" so we did until we saw people coming out of the show. I heard the next 2 nights were saner but it was still dicey on that run. the next year, with way more people there, didn't seem to have any problems. I always thought it was strange that Hampton cops would be so harsh given the good relationship the band seemed to have with the city. a friend of mine's uncle was the mayor of Hampton and he told me his uncle loved the Deadheads because they bumped up the tourism intake each spring. never got an explanation for that night of terror though.
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i remember the BS at Pitt. I just ate more funghi and chased it with a guiness and ran inside to get away. Brendanbyrne, Remember a stabbing at the gates to one of the lots. there was the gate and and a cement short wall just inside, think one of the guys was dreddy freddie, no matter anyway was stabbed over dope, i was right there bad shit. Remember at Red Rocks on same day baby was born and think it was father died of heroin OD same day. Had alot of fun at all shows but agree that 88-90 there were some bad things going on. I think that more heads started to get to much in to white powder stuff and took away their aura and lively hood. Had a couple friends that hit that seen and just got lamer by the year, One would always find us and call asking to stay in our hotel or hang at our campsite, always told yea cool for you but none of your junk buds an no fucking needles and crack. man that shit used to piss me off. stay natural the high is better. And yes we created this scene so lets keep it cool. Most of us go for the whole deal the music, people, fun and stuff, the woderful experience that is all in deadland. Some only see it as a money making oppurtunity andyes those frat fucks who don't give a shit about what is really going on. Wish all a grate spring tour and pass on the vibe, strangers stopping strangers, love each other, share, and pick up some trash. Show others who have not had the opportunity to experience the Jerry times how grate an experience this is. There is so much shit going in the world let's make sure our little piece is just that Peace. 32 teeth in jawbone
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Yeah, things definitely went down hill fast after the crowds got too big in the later 80s. It got really, really ugly in certain places at certain moments and some places were just all-around bummers. Though I was at the Pit. Arena shows in spring 89 and saw some shit gettin' out-of-hand the worst things I ever ended up in was a riot at Unn. of Ma. (known even then as Zoo Mass) that started after a long afternoon with a couple of opening acts and most of the tickets going to the local college students. There were a ton of heads without tickets. The Dead started up with Jack Straw and that was it. You just felt it in the pit of your stomach as you watched about 5000 heads start circling the stadium and breaking off in 2s and 3s and climbing and knocking down fences while terrified students doing crowd control just turned in horror and ran. Well, that wasn't enough, everybody wanted in and kept circling that place until they opened a gate to let an ambulance out. There was no way to close that gate after and no cops in enough force or mood to do anything about it. Everybody who wanted to got in, thousands and thousands of heads. These wern't the students mind you, they had plenty of time to get heavily discounted tickets. It kills me that there are a lot of righteous people out there who look down their noses at people who got into shows for free, but even in the late 70s, and probably earlier, people always found ways to get in. You just had to be smart about it back then. When the crowds got larger later on so did the ugliness of the cops and people started to fight pitched battles. I never participated in such things and thought people who did were stupid. Those were the days when there seemed like a witching hour set up 1 - 1:30 hours before the show, get your butt inside if you had a way because it wasn't going to be very nice outside once the music started inside! I've seen things gettin' outta hand. I guess they always will
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All I can say is gangsters selling fake tickets with a very strong sense of intimidation all around. It was weird. My friend got shut out when they did the "burn" test upon entry and his ticket went up in flames literally. Somehow I got in with a fake ticket. "Everybody's braggin' and drinking that wine, I can tell the queen of diamonds by the way she shines. Come to daddy on an inside straight, well I've got no chance of losing this time"
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They had a giant sunflower at the back of the auditorium on wheels to roll through the crowd at midnight. I think it was like a scafollding covered in paper mache. Anyway some guy got the bright idea he was gonna climb it and as he got near the top (about 30 feet up as I recall) he fell off and split his scull open on the concrete floor. We found out later he died from his injuries. The show went on and the only people who knew about it were those of us twirlin at the back of the arena.
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There certainly were a lot of fake tickets out there in the late 80s. Whoever would do that or sell fake paper of ANY kind was UNKIND to the EXTREME. Those were two things that could really kill your mood. A favorite trick of heads in the 70s & early 80s, when TicketRipya was printing all it's tickets off the same master blanks and, say you were in Hartford, you bought a ticket for a Whalers AHL game and then looked for the most eyes-glazed-over 18 year old kid ripping tickets and get in that line. More often than not they wouldn't even look and just rip your ticket. As for people dying. Well, that is a subject that should have it's own title... I'd vote for Rest In Peace. People died in so many different ways while on tour. I have no direct experience of this happening in my circles of friends but plenty of second and third-hand stories. I'm not sure it's a subject people would have a lot of stomach for. I just wish that every Head who had a premature demise is in a good place now.....
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The parking lots were fenced off in such a way as to move people like cattle through certain paths to the gates. Everybody wanted a shortcut so some very unthoughtful people knocked down fences, next to port-o-potties. This resulted in people getting stuck in port-o-potties with a fence over the door and people walking over it. My friends and I rescued several very unlucky, but very grateful, people. You have to ask yourself what kind of person would walk over a fence on top of a port-o-pottie with somebody screaming for help inside and do nothing. I guess the people caught inside must have been fur trappers in previous lives!
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I was at the last show at JFK,tOOK MY WIFE THERE for here first show,from what i remember that show was a show stopper,do not remember to much bad stuff at that show
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.this stuff is giving me chills like I've never ever had before and now tears are running.I remember the brendan brn days they were gunning for us.I was there,I was the driver,I was not high,so there was no distorting of facts They wouldn't let people in,had the line down to single file , one....by...one...stop. ...one....by one... we could hear the show going on ,it was like deliberate instigating. People tried to break through,It was soon after the Who crush and some of us linked arms and faced the pushers to make them stop,don't know how but they did the whole staff was on junkyard dog mode-why?how? when we heard about the murder we tried for the next few days to make phone calls-cops,sherrifs,any city in the area NOONE said anything except"not our jurisdiction call someone Else"
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There is no doubt that the people who ran and worked security at Brendan Byrne Arena were big-time ASSHOLE MOTHERFUCKERS! They did kill people with impunity. I'm not saying that controlling a crowd of 20,000 freaks is any picnic, but for God's sake they didn't have to kill us! Why did the Grateful Dead continue to play there? Why did they play so well there? Well, you have to consider the lack of venues in the area large enough to accomadate the circus the Dead had become in the 80s. After the murder of a deadhead in 84(?) there were rumblings from the band about never playing there again but nothing ever came of it. They even released a CD from there in 89, Nightfall of Diamonds. There was definitely a dark element to the Grateful Dead.
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The trash from the tanks...PICK UP YOUR BALLOONS for gods sake's! If you do em pick up your trash! Philly lot was covered in balloons and how easy is it to put in your pocket!!! They even gave out trash boxes too! USE EM!!Be kind clean up!!!! Peace,Gigi
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I hear ya there, still got 5 balloons in my backpack. LOL, but yah man, tryin to drive out the lot both nights was an obstical course, beer bottles everywhere!! I think we ran over 2 or 3 just tryin to get out of the lot. GIVE A HOOT!!! DON'T POLLUTE!!!!Peace- Moye
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So the show lets out. We're parked in the overflow lot south of the Forum. I'm waiting in the bed of the truck for my buddy who has the keys. Then they came. In V-formation. Riot gear and a SWAT van behind. They're clearing the area. The show just got out for heaven's sake!! Parked next to us, sitting on the tailgate of a truck is a peaceful Deadhead waving a stick of Nag Champa and smiling to himself. A cop breaks from formation and grabs his shocked ass by the hair and pulls him into the dirt avenue. "Why aren't you LEAVING??". "My friend has the keys. I'm sure he'll be here soon. Then we'll go. I promise! Please don't hurt me man." The cop says "What did you say to me?" and throws him to the ground. The other cops smell blood and swarm the poor boy. Batons smashing. Boots kicking. The boy a limp, bloody mess. They brought the meat wagon in, and tossed him in the back. Then they came after us. My buddy, having just jumped in the cab of our truck, implored the cop banging on the window with his baton, "I got nowhere to go man, we're blocked in!". Terrified, I lay in the bed of the truck trying to look small. The next day I see headlines: Violent, drug fueled concertgoer killed in police struggle at Grateful Dead concert. Violent? If you consider a fetal position and a baton in the gut violent. He was peaceful, happy, groovy stoned, and waiting for his ride. "Yeah, I'm just kickin' it on this tailgate. What a set! La dee dah.. 'Come hear Uncle John's band'..waiting for my buddy to drive us home. What???? No, sure, I promise I'll leave. Don't hurt me man! Ow. Why man? Ow! Why?". "Violent, drug-crazed hippy threatens police. Extreme measures required resulting in death." I watched this. From beginning to end. Fuck you Inglewood PD. You're no better than the bastards at Ohio State. And HE wasn't even protesting anything. He was crying. I've been haunted by that memory for 20 years. Thanks for giving me a place to let it out.
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I was in shock. I'd just seen a boy murdered. I knew he was dead before he went into the van. I didn't know what to do. I didn't know who to tell. I still don't. There's a place inside me that feels responsible for not speaking out. Not telling his family and friends what I'd witnessed. I didn't know how. I hope they'll forgive me.
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11 years 5 months
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Evster, That boy's name is Patrick Shanahan, he was only 19 years old. he wasn't some skell, he wasn't some junkie, he was a college student going to see a concert.... you can still speak out, man. no need to let our brother not rest in peace after his violent and sensless murder. YOU are a witness, YOU can make a difference and set things right. from the way I read your post, your buddy also saw this. please, please both of you, please, go talk to the LA district attorney and the internal affairs division of Inglewood, police. contact at : Internal Affairs Division, (310) 412-5318. Inglewood does not have their own DA for felonies, so you should go through the LA county office. this is the contact info for witness/ victims INGLEWOOD AREA OFFICE One Regent Street, Room 405 Inglewood, CA 90301 (310) 419-6764 (310) 674-7839 and the main LA district attorney info: District Attorney's Office County of Los Angeles 210 West Temple Street, Suite 18000 Los Angeles, CA 90012-3210 Telephone (213) 974-3512 you can help our brother's soul rest easy. please do the right thing here. There is no statute of limitations on murder. those fuzz, even if they retired by now, can still be held accountable for their crime. there was some documentation around that time about this: THIS is from the NY Times archive: Fan at Rock Concert Killed By the Police, Coroner Rules Special to The New York Times Published: Saturday, December 30, 1989 http://www.nytimes.com/1989/12/30/us/fan-at-rock-concert-killed-by-the-… The death of a college student while in police custody outside a Grateful Dead concert here has been ruled a homicide. In an autopsy report made public Thursday by the Los Angeles County coroner, the death of 19-year-old Patrick Shanahan on Dec. 10 was attributed to ''compression of the neck during restraint'' by police officers from suburban Inglewood. ''It's not an accident, not a suicide; it's a homicide - meaning death at the hands of another,'' David Campbell, a coroner's investigator, said in an interview. Internal Investigation On Officials of the Inglewood Police Department had no comment on the coroner's report. In previous statements, they have said officers did not strike Mr. Shanahan, nor had they used excessive force in taking him into custody. The department is conducting an internal investigation of the behavior of the five officers involved in the arrest, who remain on active duty. The Los Angeles County District Attorney's office is also looking into Mr. Shanahan's death. ''There are times when a person in custody dies but not because of any improper conduct on the part of an officer,'' said Mike Botula, a spokesman for the prosecutor. ''Even though the coroner's office has ruled it a homicide, we are not treating this as a murder investigation.'' The autopsy report, which noted several bruises on the body of Mr. Shanahan, also said he had been using LSD when he died. Mr. Shanahan, who lived in Fountain Valley, was a business major at the University of California, Santa Barbara. Officer Calvin Smith, a spokesman for the Inglewood police, discussed the background of the case today and said Mr. Shanahan was incoherent and crawling on all fours when he was approached outside the arena where the concert was held. ''He was yelling and rolling around, and several officers were needed to finally subdue him,'' said Officer Smith. ''They did use the carotid hold,'' he added, referring to a neck restraint, a choke-hold that restricts the flow of blood and oxygen to the brain. Discovery; No Breathing After the police handcuffed Mr. Shanahan and bound his feet with nylon rope, they discovered he had stopped breathing, said Officer Smith. Mr. Shanahan was pronounced dead at a nearby hospital. Lawrence B. Trygstad, a lawyer hired by Mr. Shanahan's family soon after his death, said a private investigator had interviewed several witnesses who say the police used night sticks on Mr. Shanahan. ''They're saying that he wasn't bothering anybody and that the police came up to him and were very rough,'' said Mr. Trygstad. ''They beat him and jumped on him and choked him.'' James W. Hawkes, the victim's uncle, who lives in the family's hometown of Goffstown, N.H., where Mr. Shanahan was buried a week ago, said the family would not rest until ''justice is served.'' Private Pathologist Hired Mr. Shanahan's parents were on their way home to Fountain Valley from New Hampshire and could not be reached for comment. ''We think it's really frightening and shocking that this could happen,'' said Mr. Hawkes. ''My brother won't put it to rest until justice is served. He'll pursue it until he can do no more, to make sure this doesn't happen to other parents.'' Mr. Trygstad said the Shanahans had hired a private pathologist who will complete another autopsy within a few weeks. He said the family would wait for that report before making a decision about suing the Police Department. The police in Bergen County, N.J., are investigating the death of a college student at an October concert by the Grateful Dead at the Meadowlands arena. At first, the authorities there said they believed that the student, 19-year-old Adam Katz, had been slain. A second autopsy concluded that his death was probably caused by a fall. please contact the DA and internal affairs, please keep us informed. after this article was published, they did get the bastards who murdered Adam Katz. They can get those assholes who murderred this boy, Patrick Shanahan, too. please, at least make a few phone callls. peace.
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Joe speaks truth here. Thank you for speaking out and please don't let this go. One good thing about ubiquitous cellphone video is that it probably serves as a mild deterrent to this sort of uniformed thuggery. Too bad it wasn't around then. Joe, say more about them getting Adam Katz's killers. Last I heard they had gotten a pass, but needless to say this story didn't make the West Coast papers so it's been 20 years since I heard anything.
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9 years 8 months
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Thanks for the contact info. I will contact the DA, and I will keep you all informed. Thanks again for hearing me.
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10 years 7 months
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I imagine this will help relieve your own personal guilt surrounding the situation...that being said, YOU should NOT feel guilty for what THEY did...frustrated, helpless, but NOT guilty...use your frustration and experience to both your and the victim(s') advantage...this darkness has got to give. "In a bed, in a bed, by the waterside I will lay my head. Listen to the river sing sweet songs, to rock my soul."
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mary,I am not 100% sure, but what I heard was the Katz family settled with Byrne for 1 or 1.5 million. They (family) had done their own investigation, reached a bunch of stonewalls, stymied, they settled. The state of NJ was part of the coverup, their excuse, to keep the reputation of NJ pure or some such shit. I had also heard therre were some reprimands / firings, but no jail time for any of the assholes on security who murdered him. some of the above info is also in this link: http://www.rockrap.com/archive/arch112a.html I may be wrong, but that is what I heard through one or two, (peripheral) usually relaiable sources different from that link. I will try to find out more and/or the truth.
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and thanks evster!