Grateful Dead

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Joined: Jun 4 2007
Go watch Altamont then

Fair enough Marye; but you can always watch The Stones' movie about Altamont if you want a history lesson on bad scenes. I think Jerry was even in it briefly describing the scene as having some sort of particulate matter in the air. Definitely a history lesson to be learned for sure, but I always thought hippies to be far more intelligent than to repeat the faux pas of their elders. I guess time has proven that theory to be invalid as well. Here's to learning from history, and not repeating it!

marye's picture
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Joined: May 26 2007
William...

I think one reason for this topic is the time-honored Those Who Fail To Learn From History Are Doomed To Repeat It.

Another is that people like to talk about it.

I don't think it's good to obsess about the bad stuff, but I don't think sweeping it under the rug serves any purpose either. It WASN'T all wonderful--for example, by general agreement Red Rocks was as good as it gets on every front, and yet when I was there in 1987 one of the first things I saw was Barry Fey's goons dragging a bunch of hippies out of their van and starting to beat them because, apparently, they weren't zippy enough about showing their tickets to get into the parking lot.

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Joined: Jun 14 2007
Once upon a time...

Yeah, we were certainly judged on our looks and our lifestyle in general. At least the trippy looking ones. I once had a cop say to me that he didn't understand why we had those little bags around our necks and friendship bracelets etc... as it was a dead give away that we were holding. He said he always knew he would find something on anyone who dressed like that.

The getting out of control thing is a bit complicated. Gatecrashing was mostly done by people who were not tourheads. As was littering. The increase in heroin use in the early nineties by tourheads was a big problem.

Gatecrashing seemed like a reaction to the constant harrassment by the authorities. Take Pittsburg in 92' as an example. There was big harassment of vendors all day before the show. The vendors feed the crowds etc... and were a big reason so many came to shows. Vendors (of all sorts) were a big and unacknowledged part of the success the Grateful Dead enjoyed during those days. When the locals come into a lot where there is police (or whoever) harrassing the tourheads they feel the vibe massively. When u see cops cracking heads of kind folks for selling a bag or whatever, u want to do something! It makes a bad scene and the vibe can easily turn into a rebellion of sorts with many going over the fence or breaking it down. Rebellion takes many forms. People want to feel free. We shouldn't be surprised when young people especially react in that way. Many of the less experienced heads even would have had the impression that the Dead would have given a wink towards gate crashing in the spirit of shared anarchy (as I heard many gatecrashers say at SPAC in 88'). Better communication might have helped.

Most of the harrassment from venue owners or cops etc.., was prejudice. Trying to make some big thing out of whatever. Irvine in 88' with the so called riot for example. There was no riot! I was there, right in the middle of the so called riot.

Banning camping didn't work. It was just an undeserved kick in the ass for tourheads and the locals still trashed shit. The Dead organisation should have been thinking big at this point. They should have organised their own series of festivals across the US every year where they controlled the venue. In a farmers fields, for instance. Lots of mini-Woodstocks across the US. Plus extra European tours, or world tours even. Plus the normal venues that were ok with the way things had previously been.

If Bill Graham was serious about keeping the scene clean I don't know why he didn't have someone from the scene who he gave thirty tickets to who organised a clean up crew. There were folks who did this but they were only given garbage bags to my knowledge. And from how I remember it the heads were behind that, not the band organisation.

The heroin use was weird. It destroyed the scene. The price in the Bronx went from ten a bag to five as the avaliability increased. It was a problem in the ghetto as well as the scene. A couple of shady characters popped up in the scene distributing that shit. I do wonder if the man was behind that. The timing was pretty strange. Just as there was a second flowering around the time of the anniversary of the summer of love.

Are you kind?

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Joined: Jun 4 2007
Why re-live bad scenes?

I don't know why someone would want to post this topic. Shouldn't we be remembering the good times and scenes, and forgetting about the bad? I know I had my run-ins with Johnny along the way, but I try to put it past me. Perhaps that's my own way of heeling, but I see no benefit to this particular discussion.

Steve-O's picture
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Joined: Jun 4 2007
Looks

I believe it was the way we looked more than the way we acted in the 80's, but in the 90's, I believe we as a whole got way out of control. Gate crashers and so on started putting a damper on the whole Peace thing.

c_c
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Joined: Jun 4 2007
the problem

heaven knows, cops have a fucking tough job to do out in the streets and highways of the good old US of A.

The mounted police are trained specifically for crowd control and it is one of the toughest things to do in general. anyone who has ever been in New Orleans during Mardi Gras knows what I am talking about.

but
I think the problem with most cops at shows, mounted or otherwise, I think they could never see the difference between a crowd of heads and a crowd of Metallica fans. or the rap fans, or the Monster Truck folks or Hockey fans who would get drunk and be much more prone to violence - misbehavior (on a case by case basis of course) than any deadhead crowd.

rent a cops are a totally different story, unfortunately. ) -;

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Joined: Jun 4 2007
horses at philly

vaguely remember a lot of horses at different shows. but the jfk(last show there ever) i was feeling good and kept asking the pigs if i could pet the horses. got some nasty ass looks for sure, but did take some pictures of the poorly treated animals too. also, anyone do the further fests of 98 or after at MONTAGE MOUNTAIN. there was some bad shit there too. i think it was 99 or 2000, the horses were not happy to be there. pulled a young brother out from underneath one of them just in time. he was about to be trampled waiting for a shuttle down the mountain. not a good scene and i know a lot of heads dissed the place soon afterwards. it really gets GESTAPO there for most any show.

nothing left to do but smile, smile, smile

c_c
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Joined: Jun 4 2007
seems like...

seems like the daze back in again from the wild wild west... ) -;

who is with me on that one?

peace.

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Joined: Jun 14 2007
Go Vegetarian Vegan, much less trouble

Go Vegetarian Vegan, no meat, no dairy, then you got less bad karma. Life can be heaven or heck, depending upon what you do, what goes around, comes around; At least I try. Things are much better now that I am back to being a vegetarian, and better yet a vegan. Hey, I know what I need, another.......

But if you do go Vegetarian Vegan, make certain you get at least 100 to 300 mg of all the B Vitamins (and at least 25,000 mcg of B12), PER DAY, and 1000 IU of Vit D, 500 mg Vit C, for Vit A drink a pint of carrot juice, some multi minerals, and 400 IU of Vit E. But VEGETARIANS must get Vit B suplements (B1, B2, B3, B6, B12), else they get real depressed (lack of Vit B especially), as its hard to find in the Vegetarian world (a bit in seaweed, and bananas, but not enough). It was fashionable to go vegetarian in the 1930's, the latest craze, but many became very depressed. And also I like to take Melatonin, around 15 mg before bed.

OH, and ballancing your pH with good quality WATER between meals, can restore you pH by neutralizing all those low pH acids you consume, like orange juice, soda, alcohol, tomatoes, carrots, meat and dairy products, its all dangerous because its all low pH, how can your body tollerate and bunch of acids you feed it? Water to the rescue. Then your less apt to get a bunch of trash from people. Example, I was a cab driver for a while in Las Vegas, and I would drink some coffee (low pH acidic) for my first ride, and they would bug me "driver why are you going this way", "faster driver", "were stopped and the meter is still running driver", then after the first ride, I would drink some water (high pH netralizes acids, like the coffee) with a water bottle cap full of baking soda (real high pH, and cheap, and good for you), mix that up, and the next ride was a charm, "oh driver you good, thanks driver", SO, WHAT YOU CONSUME, IS HOW THE WORLD TREATS YOU. Serve more high pH stuff at Dead Concerts; hey, and pass out B Vitamins, of course a little bit of acid is ok, it just takes a little bit, to go along way, just ballance it out.

Music for the New Millennium by ARCHURE reg tmrk www.archure.net

c_c
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Joined: Jun 4 2007
Hi Stella, I'd like to point

Hi Stella,

I'd like to point out that that sticker design was not original, I do not know who designed it, but I copied it using a silk screen and made the stickers myself. (that's why they look kind of sloppy) muchos kudos and thankx to whoever designed it, it kept the bus on the road. all I had to do was walk around turning the sticker right side up and then upside down to show that you could read grateful dead even when it was inverted; those suckers sold themselves. I traded a bunch of them, too, usually for food that people were cooking up or beers in the lean years...

one kind of surreal thing I remember about the MSG shows, was how the cops would be out on fatboy Harleys, out in force-- what seemed at the time like 50 bikes, driving around and around the 'round' and "round" garden again and again before or after shows.

peace.

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Really Bad Scenes