I'm not trying to ruin your mood in the least, I'm just saying that Abraham did NOT kill any of his children. Isaac ( the boy you were talking about) lived to be 180 years old & had two sons of his own. Esau & Jacob. I was only saying you misunderstood what you read. Read it again if your still not following me. Now have a Lovely day!
Bible scholar I ain't but I am sure Abraham did not kill his son. He was willing to for sure but God backed down at the last minute and they killed a ram instead.
The OT is great reading if you can set aside all the baggage attached to it and treat it as a book of legends like the Iliad or King Arthur or Beowolf.
thank you for your post and thanks for your insight. All are welcome.
i have to catch a flight now.
This is what caused me to turn away from organized religion. What iknowyourider stated in the above post is completely true!!! But all of the versions of this story are different. They were all borrowed from the ancient Hebrew texts and from the Pagans before them. The story has changed and morphed into iknowyourider saying that i misunderstood the verses. Check out the Koran on this story and you will find a different son and hints at what i am stating above.
Please then who did he kill his 2 year old sun for? The crazy voices he heard? Yes the so called voices told him to murder his 2 year old sun for what.....................? I will let you tell the rest Iknowyourider. Maybe is was not for "GOD" personally, but this crazy voice in his head told him to kill kill and draw blood from his own child. To me this is a crime and should be punished and anyone who condons such an act should be questioned.
I was brought up a catholic and was in church every Sunday and when i went to my grandparents house (on my fathers side) and misbehaved i would have to kneel and pray until i repented my sins!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is why i do truly believe that Religion is a form of child abuse. My case is miner and laughable but what about being stoned or whipped? This happens still today in many religions. I am in a very good mood so I do not want to go into this to much right now.
Growing up in the Bible Belt, going to church everytime the doors were opened,(which I stopped doing when my Free Will counted for something). I've always asked myself & others " How do we know "We're" right?" After much reading on multitudes of Relgions ~ & still having plenty more to learn about them.
The Answer for me is, Faith & is Faith.Your Higher Power is just that, put a name on it, fine, but I think in the End words are just Words.
BTW ~ Abraham did not Kill his Son for God, I think you misunderstood those verses.
"Believe it if you need it
If you don't, just Pass it On....."
See this is what i mean.
I have a good friend and he was one of my closest friends (both Shane and his twine Shawn were both my closet friends) when i was living in Portland Oregon. Shane used to work for Phish and both Shawn and Shane are very good friends and i still consider them to be family. We have been back in contact recently which is very cool. Thanks to these 2 wonderful individuals i was able to spend a lot of time in the Clinic (Phish back stage) and had comped tickets for all the shows and just had to walk up to the ticket office with my ID. This went on for a few years until i had to walk away from it all. Ah those were the good old days!!!! We have had some very testing times together and have seen the other side together so to speak. Well Shane now works for the Flaming Lips and he has sent me some very strong emails on how the Flaming Lips are such a good bunch of people and that their music is inspirational. Honestly i took his word but never really listened to the music and as i have tried to meet up with him on tour in Europe (but has not worked out) have never seen them live. Ok i will check these guys out. They have been around for about 10 years or so right?
GRTUD: I love this discussion!!!!!!
Thanks Trifecta! Grate story and isn't life ironic?
You're correct in regards to dualism (I think - I'm no expert on these issues, by any means). I always think of The Flaming Lips song, "Do You Realize" when Jesus is used as a weapon against "sinners" for everything from free thinking to making mistakes in our attempt to understand ourselves and the universe, in general. The song references the fact that there is no "night", (the sun doesn't go 'down') because "it's just an illusion caused by the Earth spinning 'round". The sun keeps shinning (for now, anyways ; - ). Whatever or whoever Jesus was, that's how the message resonates with me. "Take the good, leave the rest" is my philosophy. In science, all minds are utilized to make achievements, even those folks that are ultimately "wrong".
"You know what the trouble about real life is? There's no danger music."
GRTUD: i had to look up the word Dualism in order to fit it into the context of your post.
Dualism: denote co-eternal binary opposition, a meaning that is preserved in metaphysical and philosophical discourse but has been diluted in general usage.
Got it thanks.
On my flight back to London from Sierra Leone we took a 3 hour grueling drive through the African Bush (i mean i hit my head on the ceiling of the 4 Wheel Drive too many times and thought the tires were going to fall off but that’s another story) and by the time we reached the airport it was about 9pm and the flight was departing at 2am. So I was pretty much standing in 90 degree heat and 90% humidity (at night) for about 5 hours with a group of Missionaries just coming back from the Bush as they were setting up churches building wells and schools etc in the jungles. It’s funny how i end up in such interesting situations in my life. I mean come on!!! These girls and guys were from Southern Oregon and since i lived in Portland for about 4-5 years we had something to start talking about. I met a very nice guy who was about 45 years old and worked for HP etc etc. We talked about our experiences in SL and really hit if off and he was introducing me to his son and his friends who where there etc etc. We talked about just about everything (politics, GD, Oregon, SL, each others stories, etc) then we started showing our family pictures etc. Great Guy with a very good heart. He had 8 Children and all but one had brown hair and he went on to give me the reason why his newest (beautiful) son had brown hair. He gave me the creationists’ view that we all come from Noah etc etc. So i let him go on and i listened but of course i was thinking how someone can honestly think such a thing, Noah’s ark? Lions and Elephants in the dessert???? But i let him go on and now i know his view and that’s ok. Then right before we parted for the gates to pick up our tickets he said he had to do something and i said no no you don’t have to. (Because i knew at some point, but towards the end was not sure if he actually would start preaching to me). I must have confused him because i was talking about how my daughter was born on Christmas and where we had her baptized in Shanghai etc. (oldest church in China and a beautiful place). So he went on to tell me the word of God and ask, so you are catholic? and of course, in that split second I said I’m an Atheist. And he said he would say a prayer for me anyway i said ok you do that and we parted ways. (There’s more but i just wanted to share this much).
GRTUD: I think the point is that we are on a never ending search for Knowledge, Answers, and Reasons. I think TOE (Theory of Everything) was a theory to bring to 2 schools of thought together in Physics. Quantum Physics explained by Steven Hawkins is what we go by now and most of his theories are mathematically proven. This is the guy who discovered Dark Matter and Black Holes, well he explained them. I am in the process of reading into all this and i think it is all mind blowing. I always freak about about the question: When we are all gone and the earth is sucked up into the our Suns demise (black hole), then whose to say that we were here at all. Are we really here or is this........................... wow
Whatever you believe about historical fact, in this regard, I see Jesus in opposition to dualism, personally. For me Old Testament = Dualism. Then again, I'm just a speculator in these realms. Ironically, Egypt seems to hold some secrets to many of these mysteries historically, as do Mayan and Hopi tradition. Emerging nano technologies are also contradicting key elements of dualism, as the ultimate explaination of our observations of the universe. Even Einstein couldn't apply dualism to the Holy Grail of physics which he called, The Theory of Everything, which ultimately failed as a theory, much to his chagrin. I'm not up to going any "furthur" with the discussion, at the moment.
"You know what the trouble about real life is? There's no danger music."