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johnman's picture
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Joined: Dec 26 2007
Wow....

I think I need to paraphrase here...."can't we all just get along?"...I don't think anybody is intentionally insulting anybody in this site...least of all Gonzo. I gotta say that if that WAS the case, (comin' from Gonz, I mean) he would have called ME out LONG ago, and labeled me as a nut, considering my support (sometimes rabid) of the 2nd Amendment. But that ain't the case. We are all very accepting here, as it should be, and all have varying but similar opinions. C'mon back, jonapi...I've really enjoyed reading your posts.....cookies for all!!!

lamagonzo (not verified)
My sympathies....

...to the Riggs family. When my grandmother went into the nursing home at 82 years of age she had about $35,000 in savings. They took it all within a year. She lived in the nursing home (I found a better one for her while she was still paying cash) to 91. It was a very bad time in my life. I loved my grandmother more than anybody on Earth, she was a real Bodhisattva.

I can't pretend to know what you are going through with your own family. I can only express my deepest sympathies and wish you the best....

Please know I wasn't accusing you of allying with the nutter. I apologize if I hurt your feelings. It was a comment on what is trending right now in the Euro-zone. Everybody is going through hard times and as someone said on the BBC this morning, we need to count our blessings and be glad we don't live in Ethiopia, Kenya or Somalia, where vultures and soldiers are stalking women and children till they drop.

There was no need for the personal attack or walking away from this thread, .but do whatever you want to do....

marye's picture
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Joined: May 26 2007
speaking as the designated moderator and all

there's a bit of a balance here. Sure, I could of course delete the account of anyone who annoys anyone else, and it would be pretty empty around here pretty fast. Alternatively, we could trot down the well-worn path to toxic cesspit that's happened on many another site by giving free rein to abusive jerks, but what with one thing and another, we've been fortunate in that regard. Generally speaking, Deadhead self-policing works admirably and sticking to it is highly preferable. (This is one reason the spammers are so annoying, they're not self-policing OR Deadheads.)

With this in mind, and echoing TL's observation, I note in passing that it has been a long time since any female members of this community participated in any of the substantive conversations, and an emerging culture in which the c-word is acceptable might have something to do with it, although that's just one data point. Another is that while most of us are Americans, suddenly we've got a window on something we haven't seen too much of.

So if the uncivil tone of the discourse is causing people not to participate, in a Dead forum, arguably it is what it is, but arguably it's a loss to the discourse, too, and that's too bad.

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Joined: Nov 12 2010
lamagonzo

What the F... how dare you compare my comments to those of a Norwegian nutter who murdered 76 people.
My point about racism was that if you feel constantly that the pendulum is swinging against you you may indeed start to feel a little xenophobic I did not say I was going to murder people or blow people up.
Some facts
My mother is in a Nursing Home with Alzheimersshe she and my late father both paid into the state system for 50 years she has to pay £2800 ($4300) every 4 weeks to live there because she had some savings. When her savings are all gone they will take her pension then pay the balance.
If someone from Iraq, Iran or Saudi arrives in Britain they get housed Financial help (£250 per week for the father and additional sums for each dependant (my niece works with these people). They do not take the time to learn our language they don't want to live by our rules, they want to set up their own laws and whine about living here. Well my answer is let them FUCK OFF home, if that is racist then too bad.
If your objective was to silence people like jonapi and I then you have succeeded as I will not be posting here again.

TigerLilly's picture
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Joined: Jul 2 2007
gonzo-jumping in

been thinking about commenting with my 2 cents occasionally, but too intimidated by the tone going on lately, use of the c word etc etc. Keep on conversing, and I will keep reading, for now.
**********************************
I am not young enough to know everything.
Oscar Wilde

jonapi (not verified)
lastly, i promise.

Oh, and i totally agree with a great TEDx lecture given by John Barlow recently - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYpB1NzCO6g

Freedom of speech is absolutely essential. The best to combat extreme or distressing views is not to censor and ban them but to counteract with positivity. It's our duty.
And why not have a chuckle along the way?!

jonapi (not verified)
having allahugh.

Remember, though, that we are talking about that tiny minority of extremists, no one else.
I'm not saying they should go elsewhere, i'm asking the question "why don't they?". Why stay where you're unhappy?

But lest my comments are deemed too aggressive by some, i would like to say that it's said with a sense of humour not hatred.
These idiots are completely insignificant; totally irrelevant. The best way to treat them is as a joke. One thing an extremist in any walk of life cannot stand is being made fun of. And they supply us with copious amounts of material.
Nothing will ever come from these posters or their silly wittering. I'm all for them having their freedom of speech. Totally stand behind them on that one. They can say what they like.

By the way, i wonder if those guys in New York moved to the streets of Glasgow, riggsjr?

The Answer: 12 seconds.

The Question: How often are the police in Glasgow called out to deal with a pregnant women attacking a rottweiler with a sledgehammer?

Be the last speech they ever made!

lamagonzo (not verified)
Riggs, Jonapi

Both of your recent comments remind me of the message of the Norwegian bomber, who said he was trying to repel Muslims from the Euro-zone. If this message is coming through on a Deadhead thread from Europeans, then I think the sentiment must be very widespread. I don't see Tiger Lilly or Badger reporting from France or Germany on this topic. I would be interested in hearing their opinions too, should they wish to express them.

The problem is: How do you preserve freedoms when religious zealots, not afraid of dying for their cause (a tiny minority of a minority)? The US has taken on mass inconvenience and the loss of some freedom plus the responsibility of extreme vigilance against terrorists. A few rogues have penetrated and done some terrorist activity and one moron organized by AQ tried to bring down an airliner but we have shielded ourselves from major catastrophes of terrorism, despite Tom Clancey's novels (this militarist actually wrote a book with the elements of the 9/11 plane hijackings before it happened, wouldn't be surprised if an extremist read it and sent it to OBL. Read his other books and you'll see lots of other ways terrorists might harm us, like cooperating with Mexican
drug cartels).

I'm actually in favor of free speech and freedom of religion. But I draw the line where it interferes with my freedoms. Shariah law is such an odious thing for me I had a knee-jerk reaction yesterday in my post, of which I'm not proud. We have the freedom to go wherever we want in our own countries. Personally, I stay the hell away from the deep South, which includes Texas, Oklahoma and Arizona. I choose not to be around zealots of all types. But fleeing doesn't answer your questions of privileges for minorities and how it takes away from the greater good. All I can tell you is that this is a question that a sizeable minority of Americans (at least 20%) still very vocally grapple with.

But please don't ampify the voice of the Norwegian bomber, lest ye be commissioned Knights of the New Templar order.

jonapi (not verified)
A negro walks into a bar....

No, you're absolutely right riggsjr.
I have those exact same feelings rising to the surface. Luckily i was brought up not to judge anybody, be it of race or sexuality or whatever. Just never entered my mind. But i think it just goes to show how the mind can be subtly influenced and manipulated when one is in a particular mood. It's not really the piece of news talking, it's just the general frustration.
Unfortunately, we live in a society, especially one dominated by tabloid headlines and incoherent hypocritical ranting spewed by newspapers; shit-stirring news stations and self-obsessed do-gooders who act like butter wouldn't melt, that when someone quite rationally and logically says "if you don't like the laws here, then fuck off to somewhere where you do", you are immediately pounced on as being a racist or nationalist or another type of -ist.
WRONG!
Common sense is plain ol' common sense. If i moved to France and spent my entire time rubbishing the people, their customs and their laws then why the fuck move there? Even if i was born there and felt out of place, i know where the airports are. Buy a ticket.

It seems like white people aren't allowed to make comments about other races even if it's true. Look at the various Black Pride and Black Power slogans and speeches. Now i want to make one thing perfectly clear here; i'm all fucking for it. When you've been oppressed for so long, damn right you can be proud of who you are; shove it RIGHT in the faces of whitey. I remember hearing Public Enemy's "IT Takes A Nation Of Millions..." album when it first came out and was overjoyed to hear them tearing a new arsehole out of white racists. I really identified with that anger and frustration that injustice brings.
However, can you imagine someone starting a record company called White Power? White Pride? Jesus.....
But it is easy to be led astray by such nonsense i suppose. Look at the MOBO awards (Music Of Black Origin); if everyone is equal, why go on about it? Why highlight the difference?

But it is important to remember the thousands of others who go about their own business and are wonderful, tolerant people. But it's getting harder, you're right.
What was great was reading the reply of Chris Robbins, the leader of Waltham Forest Council who said: "People should not get the wrong idea about our borough because a handful of small-minded idiots have decided to deface our streets with ridiculous posters". (Posters read 'You are entering a Sharia-controlled zone-Islamic rules enforced").
That insecure, low self-esteemed "preacher" Anjem Choudary has claimed responsibility.
What a tremendous fucking cunt.

If anyone should blow themselves up, it's him. Just what would happen if you smeared them with bacon? Does their life become even more meaningless than it already is? Surely, thats game over, isn't it? No 72 virgins if you smell of sausages bro.

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Joined: Nov 12 2010
pig fight

jonapi
You are so right about it being easy to be brave when there is no threat or retaliation to your opinions or actions.
I remember my first visit to New York when my wife and I along with a couple of friends left our hotel on the first morning and got half way down the street to come across these 5 guys on a soap box expounding their beliefs at the top of their voices, one reading from the Koran and another 'translating the meaning of the words' and the other three acting as 'heavies'. After a period of time a guy at the back of the crowd shouted"go down to Alabama they love to hear that kind of stuff" to great laughter from the watching crowd. Funnily enough on my next two visits to NY these guys were nowhere to be seen.
A more worrying impact of all that has happened in the U.K in the last few years is that I and many friends like me find ourselves being more and more racist. I don't mean in any violent sense but just a feeling of injustice and the feeling that the 'other side' are getting heard more and getting their own way all the time as people are frightened to speak up (or suffering from inertia).I don't like admitting these feelings but I think it is a way that society in general is going when people like myself who have never in over 50 years felt an inclining towards racism now have these felling, or is it just a sense of resentment and injustice?
Anywho rant over once again.

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