Whole Shows? Compilations? All of the Above?

Posts: 4438
Joined: 05/26/07

Posted: June 16, 2009 - 5:00pm

suggested by cosmicbadger, who says:

Once again the debate is raging about whole shows vs compilations.

In the latest Rhino era (since this revamped site was launched). I make the score so far this Total 9 Whole shows: RT2.2 (2/14/68); 3 From the Vault (2/19/71); Winterland Box Set (11/9/73/11/10/73;11/11/73); Cow Palace (12/31/76); To Terrapin (5/28/77); Road Trips Whole Show Download (11/5/79); Road Trips Whole Show Download (11/6/79) Total 7 Compilations: RT1.1 (Fall’79); RT1.2 (Oct 77); RT1.3 (Summer 71); RT1.4 (Oct 78); RT2.1 (Sept 90); RT2.3 (June 74); Rockin’ the Cradle (Sept 78) So its a more or less even balance now, with whole shows slightly favoured (mainly because of the 73 set)

So how about a referendum on future policy. Please post your preference from the following list

A. Whole shows only

B. Mostly whole shows with a few compilations

C. About even balance of compilations and whole shows

D. Mostly compilations with a few whole shows

E. Compilations only If we post our choices A,B,C,D or E in the subject box,then it will be easy to monitor the results. Then we can rant as much as we like in the comment box.

ME here: Absolutely no promises as to "future policy," the makers of which probably have no lack of ideas of their own. And it's certainly not a referendum in the sense of being binding on anyone. But that said, this could be interesting and we might all learn something, and who knows we might get that Anchorage box set,  so have at it!


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B with an *

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I believe that whole shows is generally the way to go, and what I prefer. I also understand that my preferences are not necessarily appropriate for anyone else but me. And I do understand an artist's desire to edit and present what they consider to be their work worthy of greater dissemination. And that some people would prefer to only listen to the "best" performances, whatever that means.

The reason for the asterisk is that when shows which up until their "commercial release" were available in entirety (or at least as much of them as had been actually recorded) but are then culled from for compilation releases, we lose access to all of the material that doesn't get used for the compilation release. This can be very annoying for those of us who would rather make up our own minds about what the "best performances" from any given show are. And it just kinda sucks to have to lose access to something that we previously had.

Offering full shows (at a higher price) as downloads only for those shows which have been excerpted from to produce compilations is one creative (not to mention revenue-producing) solution which has been suggested by others.

Another (admittedly expense-producing) solution would be for Rhino to host and make available for streaming those portions of shows used for compilations that are not included in the "commercial release."

A third (possibly less expense-producing) solution would be to work with the developers at archive.org et al to provide for track-by-track suppression so that only those tracks which actually ARE "commercially released" become unavailable, instead of just slapping the padlock on the whole show.

Conversation is always more interesting than recitation, so speak your mind and not someone else's.

well said mr.pid

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i couldn't agree more...as some one who's life goal is to have every show i would like to see whole shows released....yes there are some performances that lack some luster but that is just life and one of the reasons i love the grateful dead so much cause everyone has good and bad days...and if suppose there is only a partial show in the vault iam shore some one out there would be willing to kick down what they have...

peace and hugs to all

whole shows

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Rhino ears are really small ain't they?

whole shows, please.

and if for some reason, like tape flipping, whatever, the dude taping had to go fix something else, and the whole show ain't there, just say so... or shit, choose a different show to release.

I would rather not have such fancy schmancy packaging, and rather have a 4 CD set instead of 3 that ain't a complete show... if it is the cost involved in that decision making process.

but what I really want is DVDs...

peace.

Blow the Door Off TheVault!

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mix down everything to it's best playable level and charge 3 rates:
All Access Downloads
All Access CDs
All Access All Access

So much has already been released. I don't know about others, but I want IT ALL and an willing to pay for it. I hate being nickle and dimed to death!

ok, i'm gonna get it over with early

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complete shows, please.......or throw in a cookie or two (or 3)
in place of missing sets

Whole shows

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Without a doubt is the way to go. When I first started collecting, I would erase Drums/Space or a song here and there so I could fit the entire show on 2 CD's rather than 3 for example. Now I regret doing that and am trying to replace these "broken" shows. The GD are all about live performances in my opinion and to get the full on "experience" it is highly recommended to listen to the shows from start to finish. I mean when I want to listen to the GD, I don't put American Beauty on, I put on Red Rocks 1978 or New Years Eve at Winterland etc. etc.

But this is a business too (people forget that) and the compilation CD's must sell well so that's why they do it. I can't argue against that practice, I just choose not to buy these. Like someone else mentioned, that is how you speak out - with your wallet.

"Escaping through the lily fields, I came across an empty space. It rainbow then exploded, left a bus stop in its place. The bus come by and I got on, thats when it all began. It was Cowboy Neal at the wheel of the bus to never ever land"

Oh and I almost forgot

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I enjoy audience recordings the best. I don't mind losing a bit of the sound quality to be able to hear how the crowd reacts to certain moments or songs. When the audience is going nuts over a Jack Straw opener or a tear jerking Terrapin, it makes you feel like you are right there and it always sends chills up and down my spine and goose bumps on my neck no matter how many times I listen. Its hard to get that feeling from a compilation.

"Escaping through the lily fields, I came across an empty space. It rainbow then exploded, left a bus stop in its place. The bus come by and I got on, thats when it all began. It was Cowboy Neal at the wheel of the bus to never ever land"

Whole Shows

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I prefer whole shows by far. There is something about the flow of a live show that is lost in a compilation. I find I am much more likely to listen to the whole CD of a live show. I tend to play only favorite tracks of the compilations I own. I also agree with Jackstrawfromco that in many cases I prefer audience recordings as the interaction of the audience is an integral part of what makes a Dead show special!

Question

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I have now seen repeatedly the assertion that download sites remove whole shows once any portion of them appear in compilations. (I've also asserted that until I hear otherwise we will do no such thing in the Vineyard.)

When I ran this by the Rhino folks, the response was, in essence, "Buh?" Any such removal, as far as we can tell, is not being driven by anything on this end and this was as big a surprise to them as it was to me. We're wondering if the sites themselves have uberstringent policies over which we have no control.

Hence I would appreciate a bit of chapter and verse on this. Preferably in PMs so as not to derail this discussion. Who removes what when? Thanks.

One compilation I'd love to see

Ordinarily, I love straight shows. But here's one compilation that is crying to be made:

A collection of Joan Osborne's vocal work from the 2003 (?) Dead tour.

Joan is such a fantastic singer, and her lead vocals brought colors and flavors to the band's music that were new and moving. With apologies to Donna, this was the first time we heard a woman sing many of the lead parts to some of the greatest songs of the last 40 years.

Unfortunately, the quickie CDs that came out during that tour buried Joan's voice in the mix. Her magic is blurred.

What the world needs now is a re-mastered set of those tunes where Joan is singing lead, with her voice front and center and soaring.

I'm sure I wouldn't be the only guy rushing out to buy that one as soon as it appeared.

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