Grateful Dead

Spring 1990 (The Other One) Box

sku: GRA9900113


Digital Download


HD FLAC option will be available end of September.

What's Inside:
144-page paperback book with essays by Nicholas G. Meriwether and Blair Jackson
A portfolio with three art prints by Jessica Dessner
Replica ticket stubs and backstage passes for all eight shows
8 complete shows on 23 discs
      3/14/90 Capital Centre, Landover, MD
      3/18/90 Civic Center, Hartford, CT
      3/21/90 Copps Coliseum, Hamilton, Ontario
      3/25/90 Knickerbocker Arena, Albany, NY
      3/28/90 Nassau Coliseum, Uniondale, NY
      3/29/90 Nassau Coliseum, Uniondale, NY (featuring Branford Marsalis)
      4/1/90 The Omni, Atlanta, GA
      4/3/90 The Omni, Atlanta, GA
Recorded by long-time Grateful Dead audio engineer John Cutler
Mixed from the master 24-track analog tapes by Jeffrey Norman at Bob Weir's TRI Studios
Mastered to HDCD specs by David Glasser
Original Art by Jessica Dessner
Individually Numbered, Limited Edition of 9,000

Announcing Spring 1990 (The Other One)

"If every concert tells a tale, then every tour writes an epic. Spring 1990 felt that way: an epic with more than its share of genius and drama, brilliance and tension. And that is why the rest of the music of that tour deserves this release, why the rest of those stories need to be heard." - Nicholas G. Meriwether

Some consider Spring 1990 the last great Grateful Dead tour. That it may be. In spite of outside difficulties and downsides, nothing could deter the Grateful Dead from crafting lightness from darkness. They were overwhelmingly triumphant in doing what they came to do, what they did best — forging powerful explorations in music. Yes, it was the music that would propel their legacy further, young fans joining the ranks with veteran Dead Heads, Jerry wondering "where do they keep coming from?" — a sentiment that still rings true today, a sentiment that offers up another opportunity for an exceptional release from a tour that serves as transcendental chapter in the Grateful Dead masterpiece.

With Spring 1990 (The Other One), you'll have the chance to explore another eight complete shows from this chapter, the band elevating their game to deliver inspired performances of concert staples (“Tennessee Jed” and “Sugar Magnolia”), exceptional covers (Dylan’s “When I Paint My Masterpiece” and the band’s last performance of the Beatles’ “Revolution”) and rare gems (the first “Loose Lucy” in 16 years) as well as many songs from Built To Last, which had been released the previous fall and would become the Dead’s final studio album. Also among the eight is one of the most sought-after shows in the Dead canon: the March, 29, 1990 show at Nassau Coliseum, where Grammy®-winning saxophonist Branford Marsalis sat in with the group. The entire second set is one continuous highlight, especially the breathtaking version of “Dark Star.”

For those of you who are keeping track, this release also marks a significant milestone as now, across the two Spring 1990 boxed sets, Dozin At The Knick, and Terrapin Limited, the entire spring tour of 1990 has been officially released, making it only the second Grateful Dead tour, after Europe 1972, to have that honor.

Now shipping, you'll want to order your copy soon as these beautiful boxes are going, going, gone...

Listening Party: 3/29/90, Nassau Coliseum With Branford Marsalis, Set 2

Enjoy the 2nd set of 3/29/90!

Listening Party, Part 2

Enjoy a track from each show!

Listening Party, Part 1

Enjoy a track from each show!

Seaside Chat: David Lemieux On The Branford Show

Unveiling Spring 1990 (TOO)

Talkin' Spring 1990 Too With Bob Weir, Jeffrey Norman And Branford Marsalis

David Lemieux on What’s Inside Spring 1990 (The Other One)

Product Details

Show #1
Capital Center, Landover, MD (3/14/90)


Disc 1
1. COLD RAIN AND SNOW [6:56]
2. FEEL LIKE A STRANGER [7:44]
3. NEVER TRUST A WOMAN [6:27]
4. MAMA TRIED> [2:31]
5. BIG RIVER [5:21]
6. LOOSE LUCY [6:56]
7. STUCK INSIDE OF MOBILE WITH THE MEMPHIS BLUES AGAIN [8:50]
8. ROW JIMMY [10:17]
9. LET IT GROW [11:54]

Disc 2
1. CRAZY FINGERS> [8:12]
2. PLAYING IN THE BAND> [10:27]
3. UNCLE JOHN'S BAND> [8:05]
4. JAM> [7:12]
5. DRUMS> [7:38]
6. SPACE> [6:34]
7. DEAR MR. FANTASY> [5:53]
8. I NEED A MIRACLE> [4:07]
9. BLACK PETER> [7:53]
10. TURN ON YOUR LOVELIGHT [6:01]
11. BLACK MUDDY RIVER [6:00]

Show #2
Civic Center, Hartford, CT (3/18/90)


Disc 1
1. SHAKEDOWN STREET> [12:45]
2. LITTLE RED ROOSTER [9:28]
3. STAGGER LEE [5:29]
4. ME AND MY UNCLE> [3:08]
5. MEXICALI BLUES [5:22]
6. FRIEND OF THE DEVIL [8:44]
7. JUST A LITTLE LIGHT [5:55]
8. WHEN I PAINT MY MASTERPIECE [5:32]
9. RAMBLE ON ROSE [8:02]
10. THE MUSIC NEVER STOPPED [7:38]

Disc 2
1. IKO IKO [8:08]
2. LOOKS LIKE RAIN [8:27]
3. HE'S GONE> [8:56]
4. TRUCKIN'> [8:54]
5. SPOONFUL> [7:19]
6. DRUMS [6:52]

Disc 3
1. SPACE> [11:23]
2. THE WHEEL> [5:49]
3. ALL ALONG THE WATCHTOWER> [6:06]
4. MORNING DEW [11:32]
5. U.S. BLUES [5:31]

Show #3
Copps Coliseum, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (3/21/90)


Disc 1
1. MISSISSIPPI HALF-STEP UPTOWN TOODELOO [8:33]
2. NEW MINGLEWOOD BLUES [7:36]
3. FAR FROM ME [5:05]
4. QUEEN JANE APPROXIMATELY [6:29]
5. LOOSE LUCY [7:27]
6. VICTIM OR THE CRIME> [8:07]
7. STANDING ON THE MOON> [8:00]
8. PROMISED LAND [4:53]

Disc 2
1. HEY POCKY WAY [7:10]
2. CRAZY FINGERS> [07:38]
3. CUMBERLAND BLUES [5:30]
4. ESTIMATED PROPHET> [11:51]
5. HE'S GONE> [12:42]
6. DRUMS> [9:37]

Disc 3
1. SPACE> [7:39]
2. I NEED A MIRACLE> [4:16]
3. WHARF RAT> [8:41]
4. THROWING STONES> [8:59]
5. TURN ON YOUR LOVELIGHT [6:51]
6. KNOCKIN' ON HEAVEN'S DOOR [7:10]

Show #4
Knickerbocker Arena, Albany NY (3/25/90)


Disc 1
1. GREATEST STORY EVER TOLD> [4:06]
2. TOUCH OF GREY [6:42]
3. WANG DANG DOODLE [7:22]
4. NEVER TRUST A WOMAN [7:36]
5. JACK-A-ROE [4:36]
6. WHEN I PAINT MY MASTERPIECE [5:27]
7. BIRD SONG [13:08]
8. LET IT GROW [11:36]

Disc 2
1. EYES OF THE WORLD> [13:26]
2. SAMSON AND DELILAH [7:47]
3. CRAZY FINGERS> [7:21]
4. TRUCKIN'> [7:43]
5. SPOONFUL> [5:37]
6. DRUMS [9:59]

Disc 3
1. SPACE> [8:58]
2. I WILL TAKE YOU HOME> [4:18]
3. GOIN' DOWN THE ROAD FEELING BAD> [6:58]
4. BLACK PETER> [9:09]
5. AROUND AND AROUND [6:45]
6. THE MIGHTY QUINN (QUINN THE ESKIMO) [4:40]

Show #5 Nassau Coliseum, Uniondale, NY (3/28/90)

Disc 1
1. COLD RAIN AND SNOW> [6:29]
2. NEW MINGLEWOOD BLUES [7:27]
3. EASY TO LOVE YOU [5:48]
4. HIGH TIME [6:14]
5. QUEEN JANE APPROXIMATELY [6:32]
6. LOOSE LUCY [6:11]
7. CASSIDY> [6:06]
8. DEAL [8:18]

Disc 2
1. FOOLISH HEART> [10:21]
2. LOOKS LIKE RAIN> [8:09]
3. CUMBERLAND BLUES> [5:50]
4. THE WEIGHT [5:46]
5. HEY POCKY WAY> [x:xx]
6. DRUMS [11:17]

Disc 3
1. SPACE> [9:22]
2. THE OTHER ONE> [6:52]
3. WHARF RAT> [10:35]
4. GOOD LOVIN' [7:52]
5. REVOLUTION [4:55]

Show #6
Nassau Coliseum, Uniondale, NY (3/29/90)


Disc 1
1. JACK STRAW> [6:15]
2. BERTHA [6:59]
3. WE CAN RUN [6:04]
4. RAMBLE ON ROSE [8:08]
5. WHEN I PAINT MY MASTERPIECE [6:02]
6. BIRD SONG> [13:05]
7. PROMISED LAND [4:46]

Disc 2
1. EYES OF THE WORLD> [16:33]
2. ESTIMATED PROPHET> [14:47]
3. DARK STAR> [18:19]
4. DRUMS [10:22]

Disc 3
1. SPACE> [7:53]
2. DARK STAR> [2:46]
3. THE WHEEL> [4:23]
4. THROWING STONES> [9:25]
5. TURN ON YOUR LOVELIGHT [7:41]
6. KNOCKIN' ON HEAVEN'S DOOR [8:24]

Show #7
The Omni, Atlanta, GA (4/1/90)


Disc 1
1. TOUCH OF GREY [6:41]
2. WALKIN' BLUES [6:27]
3. JUST A LITTLE LIGHT [6:12]
4. CANDYMAN [7:20]
5. ME AND MY UNCLE> [3:05]
6. BIG RIVER [5:28]
7. ALTHEA [8:09]
8. VICTIM OR THE CRIME> [9:55]
9. TO LAY ME DOWN> [9:24]
10. THE MUSIC NEVER STOPPED [7:55]

Disc 2
1. CHINA CAT SUNFLOWER> [5:33]
2. I KNOW YOU RIDER [4:51]
3. SHIP OF FOOLS> [7:50]
4. MAN SMART, WOMAN SMARTER> [7:54]
5. DRUMS [7:30]

Disc 3
1. SPACE> [11:48]
2. DEAR MR. FANTASY> [5:42]
3. HEY JUDE> [2:37]
4. TRUCKIN'> [7:00]
5. STELLA BLUE> [10:21]
6. SUGAR MAGNOLIA [9:15]
7. IT'S ALL OVER NOW BABY BLUE [7:40]

Show #8
The Omni, Atlanta, GA (4/3/90)


Disc 1
1. SHAKEDOWN STREET [12:15]
2. HELL IN A BUCKET> [6:17]
3. SUGAREE [11:24]
4. WE CAN RUN [6:55]
5. WHEN I PAINT MY MASTERPIECE [5:17]
6. ROW JIMMY [10:11]
7. PICASSO MOON [7:14]
8. TENNESSEE JED> [7:39]
9. PROMISED LAND [4:42]

Disc 2
1. ESTIMATED PROPHET> [14:03]
2. SCARLET BEGONIAS> [6:57]
3. CRAZY FINGERS> [8:06]
4. PLAYING IN THE BAND> [11:40]
5. DRUMS [8:17]

Disc 3
1. SPACE> [6:56]
2. I WILL TAKE YOU HOME> [4:17]
3. GOIN' DOWN THE ROAD FEELING BAD> [6:14]
4. THROWING STONES> [8:42]
5. NOT FADE AWAY [7:27]
6. WE BID YOU GOODNIGHT [3:14]

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Offline
Joined: Nov 20 2011
"We'll be back after a short break...."

Wow!...all I can say is WOW! Great first set from 3/14 and its only the first CD out of 23! Great version of "Big River",very unique. "Loose Lucy" ,"Row Jimmy" and "Let It Grow" also kick ass!I love these box sets! I dont care what year it is(though I have my favorites!), I LOVE the DEAD!!!!!!!!We certainly are a spoiled lot aren't we?! No other group is doing what this band and co. is doing and I love every minute of it!!! Take the dog out, trip to the cellar, back to the tunes!!! Later folks!!!! Did I mention its a great day off?

JJ Fehmarn's picture
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Joined: Nov 7 2012
The Other One TOO

#3960 arrived at the Isle Of Fehmarn in Northern Germany.
Got a shipping note on 9/5, box landed in Germany on 9/6 and first note of UPS
in my postbox on 9/8. Was on Holiday in Danmark for a couple of days so I wasn't
surprised when on 9/10 the UPS guy appeared on my working place and handled out
the box. UPS charged me for taxes EUR 50,45 and an additional UPS charge of EUR 12.
All together I've paid about EUR 280.
First at all thanx to dead.net for more than fast delivery. And for the first time
you could see the tracking online, fantastic.
I've just had the pleasure to listen to 3/14 Landover. The sound is fine and I really
like it. But what I'm missing a bit is the audience in the mix.
One of my favorite tapes is a first gen aud tape of 3/27/93 Knickerbocker Albany and
especially the end of the first set. During "Cassidy" and "Casey Jones" as closer the
singing of the audience reaches the same level as the music. So this in my opinion
is a fine thing of getting a concert at home.
What about the release of the Europe 90 shows as the next big box? Anyone remembers
the scream "Dunkelstern" during the first notes of "Dark Star" in Berlin 10/20/90?
Greeting fron the sunny island and gar-see-ya
JJ

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Joined: Nov 18 2010
Album art

Try searching with Google Images. This worked well for me for most GD boxes, individual art for the May 77 box being the exception (probably available now, but weren't back when I ripped the set upon receiving). Have not tried it yet with this release because my box is still in transit.

SPACEBROTHER's picture
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Joined: Jun 4 2007
Album Art

They haven't updated their sight yet, but this usually will have the individual show art work. They seem to currently be updated through Dave's picks Volume 10, but not Volume 11 yet. I would check the following link periodically...

https://plus.google.com/photos/106465427611350658328/albums/5978461672006360945?banner=pwa

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Joined: Apr 21 2014
#4163

Wow;

Received this on Sept. 8 after just receiving shipping confirmation from Dead.net !!! I can't believe it arrived so fast as I waited 2 weeks for DP 11 to come. At 46 years of age, I have just recently been introduced to the Grateful Dead and I have completely jumped in to their work with both feet. This box set is absolutely glorious and tHe sound is impeccable. I'm sorry it took so long for me to appreciate this band as I would have loved to have had their previous large box sets (Europe '72 most of all). The past being the past, I cannot change that, going forward I will not miss another set like this that gets put out. It has been a great 3 days diving into this so far and I can't believe the differences between shows !!! Please don't let this end...

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Joined: Aug 6 2013
wjonjd

Nice posts. I've had the same discussion here before about how 44.1/16 is as high-def as the human ear can possibly hear. I appreciate that you are just trying to help people out and save them from spending extra on something that is essentially unnecessary.

One of the links you posted (Xith.org) is also from the same folks who are the developers and maintainers of the FLAC file format. Seems to me they might know a little bit (pun intended) what they're talking about on this issue.

fourwindsblow: "Could it be that you would want those frequencies in there even though the ear can't hear them as to provide separation between the instruments to give it more detail and a wider sound-stage."

Actually, it's the opposite. You don't want those frequencies, as some inaudible ultrasonics could cause distortion in the audible range, resulting in the "high-def" recording having poorer fidelity during playback than the CD standard.

Underthevolcano's picture
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Joined: Feb 6 2008
#477

has landed. Almost didn't make it-USPS truck burned right by the house-I got on the phone and made some calls trying to figure what went wrong-getting ready to saddle up and go chase the truck-when ding-dong went the bell-carrier out front holding the box and saying gee I forgot I had it in the back of the jeep. Ah well-tragedy narrowly averted! What a MAGNIFICENT box-no time yet to listen-had to get back to work-but the box as a collectible object is really desirable. I won't spoil for those still waiting and who have avoided the pre-views( as I had done). Suffice it to say that this is a fitting presentation for this great band. If you are on the fence-don't hesitate to pull the trigger. Thanks to all for realizing this product.

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Joined: Nov 20 2011
Yeah Baby!!!!

#2550 just arrived here in Western MA! All I can say is: Beautiful! Just beautiful! Great packaging all around, certainly worth the $ no doubt! The book, the prints, even the coin and dice are cool! Got a couple things to do on this glorious day off and then I will let the music play!! I'm going to go right in order, off to the Cap Centre it will be!! Take care folks! Hope everyone gets theirs soon!!!

stillwaters's picture
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Joined: Aug 30 2012
Album Art??

Perhaps this has been addressed before, but could someone tell me where the album art for the individual shows from the Spring 1990 TOO box is located?

Many Mahslo's!!

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Joined: Nov 3 2010
Late UPS trailer

I live in colorado and got the late trailer delay message on the ups tracking page. must be out of Commerce City. hopefully there will be no damage to the box! can't wait! gonna be a midi drenched weekend!

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Joined: Dec 17 2011
#

6024 arrived in Philly today. Happy Thursday, Deadland!!!

skeebe's picture
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Joined: Oct 19 2013
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

A late UPS trailer arrival has caused a delay. We're adjusting plans to deliver your package as quickly as possible.

So close yet so far.

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Joined: Jun 12 2007
Love this tour.....

Checked my shipping status:

"A late UPS trailer arrival has caused a delay. We're adjusting plans to deliver your package as quickly as possible."

BOOOOO! Ah well, what's another day or two for one of my favorite tours. As long as all the contents and discs are correct this time (they were not on the first box) it sounds like I'll be one happy head the way everyone keeps raving about the sound quality. I cut my Dead teeth on this tour, this is where it all came together after seeing my first show in the summer of '89. This is like 80's Dead, but better for lovers of that era.

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Joined: Jan 24 2011
Ring and Wagner

Hey there Volcano - Oops, I forgot to add one more obsession (really) - Wagner. I have both Furtwangler's complete cycles, the recently (sort of) released Keilberth from 1955 (first stereo recording of it ever made, not released for ages), the Solti, the Barenboim, the Karajan, and the decca Bohm set. Also have lots of versions of all the rest of the main canon (I especially like Kubelik's Die Meistersinger), as well as one copy of each of his first three, Die Feen, Das Liebesverbot, and Rienzi.

When I first started listening to opera, it was all Italian and French. I thought I couldn't stand Wagner. I kind of liked Flying Dutchman, and it kept growing on me, so I moved on to osome of his others. I found his music to be completely addictive, to the point that for a while I wasn't listening to anything else (obsession). It is literally a physical pleasure, very hedonistic. For such an asshole, he was without a doubt one of the most amazing geniuses to ever live.

Underthevolcano's picture
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Joined: Feb 6 2008
@wjonjd

the Furtwangler Ring Cycle avail on the big Membran box is amazing. To me the Ring cycle is another musical obsession comparable to seeking out contrasting GD performances.

boblopes's picture
Online
Joined: Jan 13 2009
2763 has been delivered!

2763 has been delivered by UPS - doing the $3.50 shipping upgrade was worth it to me.

For those trying to figure the numbering system, I ordered mine the day before Meet Up At The Movies, I picked the cheapest shipping option and my last name is in the middle of the alphabet...

Looking forward to listening to it!

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Joined: Jan 24 2011
furtwangler

Cool Musically, my other complete obsessions besides the Grateful Dead are Furtwangler and Callas. I have virtually every performance, offical and bootlegged, that can be found (I'm sure i'm missing a few).

I have told many people that Furwangler is like the Grateful Dead of classical music. He would rehearse the orchestra (at least his own Berlin and Vienna) over and over and over, takingn input from orchestra, playing the same piece in many different ways with different emotional content in different places. That way, when in performance, he could go with whatever he was feeling, changing what he was doing by how he felt at the moment and knowing that the band would be right there with him able to emotionally follow where he was going and play it that way. He could IMPROVISE the emotional content of the piece on the fly and sometimes magic would happen.

One of my absolute favorite recordings of all time is the December 1944 Beethoven Eroica Symphony with the Vienna. The peak moment about 2/3 of the way through the slow movement, is one of the most intense musical moments I've ever heard. Ever. Makes the hair on my neck stand up every time.

Anyway, gotta get back to work.

Underthevolcano's picture
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Joined: Feb 6 2008
various thoughts to recent topics

1. Congrats to all those who have already received their box sets.
2. My set should arrive sometime today-can't wait.
3. Re: big stereos and vinyl ritual-I plead quilty to all of it.
4. I don't know about hi-rez downloads-don't have any of them but I definitely think MP3 is virtually worthless for music enjoyment. I like HDCD, vinyl and SACD. I also have some excellent sounding modern CDs.

5. I agree however that I will listen to an ancient lo-fi recording of a brilliant performance over a state of art recording of a mediocre performance-I have many CD issues of historical classical (Furtwangler, etc) that I would not part with.

hbob1995's picture
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Joined: Jun 26 2007
Delivery of TOO

All along the tracking for my set has shown Friday 9/12. I just looked at it again. and it now says UPS is NOT going to turn it over to USPS and that they will deliver it today!!
Doing the happy dance as I try to type this. Tonite is going to be heaven!
Rock on

ironman88's picture
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Joined: Jun 8 2007
Australian Deliveries

I also received my order on September 9th. I was really amazed to receive it so quickly - especially after the delays with the first Spring 1990 box which saw all Australian deliveries sent via Germany.

And these sound REAL GOOD!

What's lined up as the Box Set release for 2015 I wonder.

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Joined: Jan 24 2011
Holy Shit

@jrf68- they put the 2nd set of that show up with the two listening parties. The exact same giggling thing happened to me. It WAS redonckulus!!!!!! Also, after that whole Clint Eastwood DVD thing, I just got notification that my box should get here by end of day today. YAHOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Joined: Jan 24 2011
Grado

@deadheadbrewer- aren't those grado's something? The warmth of sound, the 3 dimensionalilty, the clarity, and the feeling of space is like nothing I've ever heard in any other phones. I saw they have come out with ear buds. When I do finally take the plunge I think I will have to go with one of the full size phones, but I'd like to find out if their buds sound similar. They have 3 types of buds, but their lowest price one is the only thing they sell that isn't handmade in Brooklyn. The other two, though are $300 and $400. Can't do that and the regular headphones also.

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Joined: Jan 24 2011
Music sound systems

@fourwinds- thanks, you too. I remember when most music junkies would get the best equipment they could afford. Huge floor standing speakers with the latest in tweeter and woofer technology, cool receivers, amps and pre-amps, turntables with the coolest new types of needle cartridges, and we were so careful to make sure it was spinning at 33 1/3 after we used those velvet things to gently remove the dust from the precious vinyl as it spun........

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Joined: Jan 24 2011
Hey HighThyme (cool moniker)

@HighThyme- hey now! First, I apologize to anyone to whom I came off as preaching. I just think that if they put up 24 bit flacs, they will probably charge more (I think they said $200?). That's a lot of money compared to $160 for the same music,

I assure you that i am thinking of NONE of that technical stuff when I am being transported to those magical places music takes us, whether jamming with thousands, or alone with my "deck". In fact, somewhere around half my music collection consists of music recorded before stereo was invented, and I have and enjoy and love a substantial number of recordings I have from before the electrical microphone was invented. The very opposite of hi-fi.

I, for one, will ALWAYS opt for a mediocre recording of great music over a great recording of good music. And I would certainly never judge who does and who does not know how to listen to music by what can be gleaned from comments on a message board. I was trying to save people money by explaining what they're not getting with their higher priced 24 bit file. I think I managed to do that without insulting any one, and certainly not aiming insults directly AT a particular person. Was that really necessary? While I may have been over-technical, I wasn't bringing any one down or tearing anyone down. Were you trying to make me feel like shit? Maybe you just had a crappy day. It happens.

To your point, though. I don't think you completely understand the issue (no big deal, though). Mp3 (and AAC files) even of 320kbs, are "lossy" formats meaning that a lot (a LOT) of music information is lost from the file in order to compress it down in size (by 70-90%!) from the original file it is created from. Most people will hear a significant difference between the original music file and an mp3, and virtually everyone will hear the loss in sound quality when comparing them on excellent equipment. There's no comparison.

But, that has nothing at all to do with fourwinds' or my points. The flacs, and alac files that we are talking about are "lossless" files. This means that no music data from the original file they are created from is lost (they only compress the original by about 50%), and are decoded to the exact original as they play, or you can decode them yourself and then convert to flac again over and over with zero loss in quality each time. When you create an mp3, though, you are throwing out a ton of music data that is gone forever. If you decode it to a wav, the wav is still missing what you threw out. If you compress to mp3 again you will degrade it even further, etc,

What we were discussing is the difference between digital recordings that are 16 bit and 44.1 kHz (what a CD uses), and 24 bit 96khz recordings. The bits refers to the number of data bits used to store each "unit" of music information sampled from the incoming analog electronic signal, and the kHz refers to how often "snapshots" of the incoming signal are captured (44,100 times per second vs. 96,000 times per second).

Most studies show no one can really distinguish between two music samples where one is 16/44.1 and the other 24/96 when created from the same source.

Most people CAN readily distinguish the poorer sound quality of an mp3 and the original 16bit or 24bit it came from. A substantial sacrifice in sound quality has been made to create a MUCH smaller file.

I only brought this up because many people have been jumping on the "hi Rez" bandwagon, paying substantially more for 24bit files while I was aware that the university studies done to date indicate that people can't hear the difference between a 16 bit file and a 24 bit file (which has nothing to do with mp3 degraded encoding).

Let's say they were offering a gd movie on actual film, one that plays at 72 frames per second and another at 144 frames per second, but they're charging a lot more for the 144. If I've just read that no one who watches both can tell which is which, I'm gonna come on here and suggest that people don't waste their hard earned money. And, to do that I'm going to have to explain the difference between the two and why having all those extra frames doesn't actually matter. Just trying to save some friends some scratch. By all means, when they put up the 16 bit alac file (they already have) which can be converted to 16 bit flac with no loss, and then they put up 24 bit flac and charge $40 more for it, then, because you can hear the difference between an mp3 and a flac (which most everyone can) by all means go ahead and get the 24 bit file if that somehow makes logical sense to you. It's like you're saying, " since I can hear the difference between a crappy mp3 and a perfect lossless 16 bit flac, well then I might as well pay even more for this 24 bit hi res flac!" I could just say "that's fine with me, no skin off my nose", especially after your purposely insulting and condescending comment, but it actually DOES bother me that you, someone who obviously loves music or you wouldn't be here and who I am sure knows how to LISTEN to music just fine, might be convinced to pay more for something without getting anything of any additional real value when that money could be going to more music that you love or other meaningful places.

In any case, I honestly do hope you just have great times with the music in whatever form you get it.

Long live the omnipotent Grateful Dead.

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Holy Shit!

I'm 44 years old and I was just GIGGLING listening to the Branford show. It's redonckulus....just silly how awesome this is....
:)

Re:listening to the listening party....picking up the set first thing @ the P.O.!

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Not a believer in Hi-Rez

I've made some attempts to hear a difference between a 16-bit and a 24-bit version of the same source material, and I'll be darned if I can hear any. I use decent equipment, and second the opinion to get some nice Grado headphones. I went to a site that supposedly tested my hearing abilities, and it seems that I don't have the capacity to hear much difference in anything, and I've somewhat babied my ears over my 44 years. I had my wife randomly play me a Joshua Redman track that was in lossless FLAC and in 256 mp3. I guessed correctly five times out of ten.

Others swear by hi-rez, and I'm certainly no expert, but I would ignore the format and use the savings for more recordings you don't already have, plus some good ($100-300) headphones. One additional problem with the hi-rez version of older recordings is that they rarely state which source and process was used, so you're probably getting nothing more than you've already owned all these years. That, and you don't even get liner notes for your $20/disc! AND, they usually don't include the bonus tracks that were included on your remastered CD version! And then your hard drive crashes . . .

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@fourwindsblow

Your comments about higher res formats sound right on. At one time, I had a 320Kbps MP3 of a show which I had enjoyed thoroughly, but found the recording lifeless, unengaging, frustrating, unpleasant and quite difficult to listen to all the way through. After repeatedly being unable to enjoy it for nearly a year, I finally purchased the FLACs, taken from the exact same source recording, and now enjoy listening to and being surrounded by all or even just portions of it to no end. There's no comparison. You will never convince people who don't get it, because while you're listening to the music, they are analyzing data as they listen to it. Their opinion on how the music sounds is utterly pointless because they don't know how to LISTEN to music in the first place. Kinda makes you wonder why they even bother in the first place sometimes.

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Release Cover Art

The person who scans the cover art on at this link is usually pretty quick about putting up the updated cover art, including the bonus discs...

https://plus.google.com/photos/106465427611350658328/albums/5978461672006360945?banner=pwa

...but seems to only be updated through Dave's Picks Volume 10.

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Received!

...less than 24 hours of receiving an email letting me know it had shipped!! I got lucky on this "other one." I'm always blown away by the attention to detail on these sets. Even the box it's shipped in is cool,

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some accolades for the artwork and package design

My box arrived today here in Birmingham, AL. I'm looking forward to having time to listen to all of it soon...

Jessica Dessner's artwork is great - heck, all the GD artwork in the past few years has been impressive, but the artwork on the individual show digipaks and elsewhere in this set really brought a smile to my face. And the box's design really complements the artwork well. The smaller book was a nifty idea. Great job all 'round, folks.

fourwindsblow's picture
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Joined: Oct 13 2008
superior playback equipment

I got myself a Marantz receiver sr7005 it has M-DAX expander. When I first got it I didn't use it much because I didn't hear much of a difference at first, but now I can't listen without it especially at a higher volumes. Makes the 16/44 files sound like a record when set on mid setting.

Nice talking with ya bro

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Joined: Jan 24 2011
Hi-rez

@fourwindsblow - that could be. I just think that, because many of the folks in the studies I read were audiophiles very familiar with the best audio equipment/technology who are familiar with and listen to 24bit music, it seems to me that if they still get about a 50% success rate in picking out the 24 bit versus 16 bit recording of the same music samples then there can't really be more detail or a wider sound-stage that is discernible (by ears as opposed to electronic analysis equipment).

Also, it's not just a larger range of frequencies involved (although, as you indicated, those frequencies are generally beyond human hearing), it's also more frequent digital sampling (slices as it were) of the music (44.1khz versus 96 khz)) - more points in time; other stuff also.

My main point is that if a particular person can't tell the difference (can't detect the wider soundstage, more detail, etc) then the difference isn't really there for all intents and purposes - certainly not to pay for.

And, to my knowledge, no one particular person in any of the studies when put through double blind testing was able to get anything statistically significatnly higher than 50% which indicates no discernible difference. Obviously, when run through sound analysis equipment there is a difference, but that's moot to the listener.

Most people I have spoken to gauge their preference for 24 bit, etc., by their use of SACD or DVD audio, and as I mentioned before, that's not apples to apples because the SACD and DVD audio are almost always made from different masters, have different mixes, etc., not to mention able to be played back in more than two channels. So, first of all, they hear an immediate difference, and secondly, it DOES sound better but it sounds better because of those other things not related to the higher bit rate or sampling frequency.

Of course, I'm sure there are hearing savants out there. But, another, thing to consider - if you have exposed yourself to high volumes of music or are older than say 30ish then the issue really is moot because the odds of you're retaining the ability to hear that level of nuance when so very very few people indicate ANY ability to tell the difference under controlled conditions seems to me to be very low.

One last thing. It seems to me that rather than spend money on higher bit higher sampling frequency recordings, given the dubious nature of the difference it makes to the human ear, it would be a far better investment to make one time investments in superior playback equipment (particularly speakers and headphones, but other equipment as well) rather than pay more for each recording. A pair of $500 Grado headphones is going to do WAY more for the quality of your music experience than spending $5-$10 more for every recording you buy. And no, I do not own a pair like that, but have listened with them extensively (extended family). One day maybe...

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Joined: Oct 16 2013
RE:For those with UPS>USPS shipping

I saw that upgrade a day sooner deal, but didn't want to open an account. Finally got a shipping notice on my box last night, first said by Friday 8 PM, then they updated that to Saturday at 8 PM. Hand-off to the USPS carrier. UPSMI is a pain, especially when a UPS truck goes down my street at least once a day.

Last time they shipped out Dave's 11 I got it the next day it was released. So you never know. I guess they gave overseas and Canada priority on this box since many are listening to theirs while I wait days longer here in Dallas.

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VERY NICE!

Just received the BOX. First class job all the way! Did anyone mention the DEAD dice set that was included?

fourwindsblow's picture
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Hi-rez

Could it be that you would want those frequencies in there even though the ear can't hear them as to provide separation between the instruments to give it more detail and a wider sound-stage.

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Cover Art

Anybody know any links to the cover art of the individual shows? not the box cover. I would like to put each show with its individual art. thanks
what a great box!! I've made it through the 3/21 show so far, plenty of highlights The 3/21 Wharf Rat WoW!! now back to listening...

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Bitrates

Makes me remember going down to the stereo shop, if you're old enough to remember those, haha
And having the salesman do his thing with all the setups they had. Man that was always a blast.
And after you spent hundreds or thousands you'd get home and set the new rig up. And possibly think
you know it just doesn't sound as good as down in the showroom!

boblopes's picture
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Joined: Jan 13 2009
For those with UPS>USPS shipping (the slow boat)...

I just improved my delivery day by 1 day (delivery now tomorrow!!!), by creating a UPS My Choice account and then upgrading from the UPS>USPS to UPS Ground for $3.50. UPS Cust Svc said I made the change in time - just did it.

Bob

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Joined: Jan 24 2011
some links

Here are some links explaining in detail issues with the difference between 16 bit and 24 bit (and 44.1 vs 96khz), the abilities of the human ear and lots of other technical info.

I will get links to the university studies themselves when I have time to find them again.

http://www.sonicscoop.com/2013/08/29/why-almost-everything-you-thought-you-knew-about-bit-depth-is-probably-wrong/

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

http://hothardware.com/News/Research-Data-Suggests-Higher-Music-Fidelity-Little-More-Than-Snake-Oil/

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Joined: Jan 24 2011
High Def again

I'm pretty sure that Dark Side of the Moon is one of the ones that had a complete remix/remaster than the CD.

Here is a link that shows and describes the differences in the mastering of the CD and the SACD of DSM. When you are done reading it you will see than anybody would probably be able to tell the differenced between them, even if they had both been put out in 16/44.1

http://www.stereophile.com/news/11649/

You really need to read the studies to begin to realize how much went into trying to find out whether the human ear can detect those differences. The people looking had no agenda other than trying to answer the question. It can't be too much of a coincidence that all the academic studies come up with the same results.

boblopes's picture
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Joined: Jan 13 2009
@ Fourwindsblow - I agree

I'm in agreement.

I was just curious if I could tell the difference with some of my "reference CDs": Darkside of the Moon, Aja, Lamb Lies Down on Broadway, Revolver, DP3, DaP5, Orig LedZep Box, Babylon by Bus on really good audio gear.

With that said, as I wait patiently for S90TOO (Friday delivery), I've autoripped the amazon mp3 of Wake Up set that I bought for my buddy's birthday in a couple of weeks and it sounds awesome on the office stereo - can't wait to crank it up from the boxset in HDCD on the big boy stereo!

Since I only have a better than average stereo (far from an audiophile rig found on audiogon), I don't think I could tell a difference.

fourwindsblow's picture
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Studies

What I was saying was have them listen to 24/96 files for a little while before doing the A/B tests.

boblopes's picture
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24bit 96khz vs 16bit 44.1khz

I'm curious if this experiment were performed with a recording of a piece of music the listener was very familiar with. Could they pick up any nuances between the 16 bit and 24 bit versions?

I have not read the study, so I don't know that info.

But if one listens to a piece of music that person may not intimately know, I think the brain will be absorbing the composition as a whole, so it might not pick up the nuances between 16 bit and 24 bit.

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Joined: Aug 9 2012
HD Versions of Spring 1990 TOO

For what it's worth, whether you believe in the superior quality of high-definition recordings or not, HD-Tracks is advertising digital downloads of Wake Up to Find Out: Nassau Colisuem: Uniondale, NY 3-29-1990 at both 96/24 ($40.98) and 192/24 ($53.98) sampling rates. Presumably, it's available now for download.

http://www.hdtracks.com/wake-up-to-find-out-nassau-coliseum-uniondale-ny-3-29-2045

It will be interesting to see if the rest of the set is listed at these higher rates.

jbarr74's picture
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Joined: Nov 11 2013
just got it

wow its so nice. time 2 lock myself in my house and ignore the world 4 a few days

jbarr74's picture
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Joined: Nov 11 2013
just got it

wow its so nice. time 2 lock myself in my house and ignore the world 4 a few days

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Joined: Jan 24 2011
Studies flawed

@fourwindsblow - That may be. And it may not. Before sticking to your opinion on this go ahead and look up the studies that have been done on this, read them thoroughly, and see if you change your mind. Because in order for what you say to be true all of the studies would have to be flawed in just such a way to create the 50% success rate they all get. See what you think after you read them. Or don't. It's not my money. And, even if someone can't hear a difference, if they think they can and they're happier, that's fine too.

You say things like "on a good system." Have you looked at what they used. Most of them didn't just use a "good system". The very purposely used severly "excellent systems" AND several "very good" systems AND several "basic" systems, etc. That's the whole point behind a truly scientific study. Address all known variables that might bias results. Not just the "sound system", but the people (audiophile, musician, other), ages (teenagers with young years, twenties, thirties, etc.), listening environment, kinds of music, and even factors that wouldn't necessarily seem relevent like educational background. They make as sure as possible that something as simple as "as is the system good enough" doesn't affect the ability of the study to be able to answer the question they are studying - can people hear the difference between A and B.

Anyway, as long as people are happy it doesn't really matter.

Vguy72's picture
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Joined: Jun 29 2007
Shipping notice here...

....Spring TOO should arrive Saturday. Oh, happy day....

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Joined: Jun 6 2007
Smiling ...

... in Leeds, UK.

simonrob's picture
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Joined: Jun 7 2007
FLAC in WMP

As stated in the digital download FAQs, FLAC files cannot be played in Windows Media Player. However, there is a plug-in which makes this possible, namely "Directshow Filters for Ogg Vorbis, Speex, Theora, FLAC, and WebM" from Xiph.org. The file (opencodecs_0.85.17777.exe) can be found here:

http://www.xiph.org/dshow/

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