Grateful Dead

Dave's Picks Volume 11: Century II Convention Hall, Wichita, KS 11/17/72 - SOLD OUT

sku: GRA9900107

Jack Straw may have been from Wichita but the Grateful Dead only played there once and what a show it was! Whether the band knew they would only have one shot to show the "Doo-dah" city what they were all about, we just don't know but they sure did nail it. Dick's Picks producer Dick Latvala initially considered this one for release and with a single listen, you'll know why. From the epic 90-minute 16-song first set to super tight ditties from the massively popular Workingman's Dead and American Beauty albums and newly minted Europe '72 classics like "He's Gone," "Brown-Eyed Women," and "China Cat Sunflower>I Know You Rider," you're bound to agree. Lest we forget to mention the great sounding tapes and excellent acoustics at the Century II Convention Hall. (Oh, and as a little bonus, we've thrown in the best of the bunch from Oklahoma City 11/15/72!)

Mastered in HDCD from the original soundboard recordings produced by Owsley Stanley, with fresh artwork from Tony Millionaire (and his little dog too), and liner notes from original handbill artist and then first-time Grateful Dead concert attendee Gary Houston, this sonic adventure is one to cross off the old bucket list.

Pre-order it here while you can!

Listening Party

11/17/72, Wichita, KS

"Bird Song"

"He's Gone"

"Box Of Rain"

David Lemieux Volume 11 Seaside Chat

Product Details

3 Disc set
Limited to 14,000 individually numbered copies
Mastered to HDCD specs by Jeffrey Norman
Digipak made of 100% recycled and PCW materials
Release Date: August 1, 2014

A note about the cover: The Black and White cover is the only cover made for this release. The color version is the booklet cover. The Black and White version wasn't revealed till Street Date which is why the booklet color version was the only version shown at the time of Pre-order.


Century II Convention Hall, Wichita, KS (11/17/72)

Disc 1
1. Promised Land [3:12]
2. Sugaree [7:01]
3. Me And My Uncle [3:11]
4. Tennennee Jed [7:47]
5. Black-Throated Wind [7:04]
6. Bird Song [11:01]
7. Jack Straw [5:00]
8. Box Of Rain [4:54]
9. Don’t Ease Me In [3:16]
10. Beat It On Down The Line [3:26]
11. Brown-Eyed Women [5:11]
12. Big River [4:39]
13. China Cat Sunflower> [7:10]
14. I Know You Rider [4:46]

Disc 2
1. Around And Around [3:55]
2. Casey Jones [6:33]
3. Cumberland Blues [6:31]
4. El Paso [4:17]
5. He’s Gone [14:12]
6. Truckin’> [9:57]
7. The Other One> [19:49]
8. Brokedown Palace [5:57]
9. Sugar Magnolia [8:24]

Disc 3
1. Uncle John’s Band [8:07]
2. Johnny B. Goode [3:57]
Live In Oklahoma City (11/15/72)
3. Playing In The Band [30:57]
4. Wharf Rat [10:38]
5. Not Fade Away> [7:47]
6. Goin’ Down The Road Feeling Bad> [7:12]
7. Not Fade Away

You Might Also Like


comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Kate_C.'s picture
Joined: Sep 29 2014
Bittersweet Finality... the nature of concluding WC matches, especially when our magnificent women are in play, as the quadrennial wait can be interminable only to see tournament month streak by with all the patience of Weir during a 1st set Trey solo (and, honestly, thank God (or Phish) for the loaner thus far during the band's valedictory run).

I'm a bit hoarse after a smashing victory on the Montreal pitch this evening; while protracted sport seasons offer a margin for setbacks and recovery, I think that consistently ascendant performance is the key to success in the compressed context of tournament play. Hopefully the USWNT's final game will be the futbol equivalent of the June Winterland stand to the Dead's 77 Spring Tour!/peace, K

rdevil's picture
Joined: Nov 2 2007
Damn, Kate

You were within 20 yards of a brown bear? I'm not an outdoorsman, but, having read Bill Bryson's A Walk in the Woods, I find that terrifying. Lucky for you, you literally travel with all the bells and whistles you need to survive in the wilderness.

Thrilled to see the Dijon show included in the big box, I first heard about it from you. I don't remember your recommendation for 5-14-78 but look forward to hearing it this Fall.

wilfredtjones's picture
Joined: Jun 4 2007
another day in the forest

With the Dead in tow. And a ham sandwich. Ham soaked in a honey Dijon glaze. I made it myself with a recipe from The Silver Palate Cookbook. I was on my way to another twenty mile ride when my damn rear derailleur shifter cable snapped. Arghh! Another day I'll make it 29 miles...Hot today close to 90.

Saw some type of weasel waddle away as I was taking a break somewhere on the Ridge trail. Came upon a finch's nest with all sorts of baby finches trying to fly away I came up so fast. All that was left was me and one baby finch and we had some beer together. That thing was freaked for a while; I was kicking myself for not bringing my camera this time because it was pretty in the sun.

Anyway, the cable broke so I walked back the six miles to the car. Lucky for me, I had half my sandwich, a can of water and some potato chips left over to try and enjoy once I was about close to the parking lot. The deerflies had other ideas...that's why I ate and drank fast and scooted (my bike now a makeshift scooter) on up to the lot.

Bike is on it's way to healing and more rides are planned. In the meantime, I don't let it (or much anything else!) get me down...

Kate_C.'s picture
Joined: Sep 29 2014

Irrational, but I feel a sense of almost desperate disappointment in our community after reading the main boards over the last week since my return. Somehow I thought we could transcend class warfare, internecine arguments over eras, petty empire building around subjective taste, and personal insecurity over financial underachievement.

Certainly the influx of new and transient participants attendant solely to the commercialization of Year 50 hasn't helped; yet even so, within this crowd there are a number of constructive contributors and the 'usual suspects' amongst our regulars are barely distinguishable from their more recent counterparts.

I've been doing a great deal of sampling, note taking, and reading (DBase, TCompendium, reviews, and private web blogs) with respect to the 30 shows, pursuant to which my esteem for the selection process is nothing short of awe. Yet, I see little profit to initiating public discourse. Perhaps in year 51.

peace, K

Kate_C.'s picture
Joined: Sep 29 2014
Nature Headz

WTJ, BRSF looks like a gr8 resource AND I note from the homepage that y'all are to receive a transplant herd of our KY elk! Likely from the eastern mts as their prolific expansion has led to nuisance for farmers (if they liked pot they'd already be extinct hereabouts!) and heightened peril along challenging high elevation roadways due to their relatively greater bulk and slower reaction versus deer.

Saturday I dispensed with consideration for mileage and simply established a goal of 4 hours running so that I could begin reacclimating myself with pacing, hydration, and nutrition over increasingly longer distance. This was fortuitous, as it married nicely with my selection of Download Series #7 (3:59!) comprising a full show and 2nd set from 9/3,4/80, respectively.

On a general note, I've found this a brilliant set of releases with no apparent weak spots, though it's attracted relatively little attention and - as I recall - recurrent bouts of vague criticisms that are entirely unhelpful for understanding these uniformly strong shows that so nicely fill holes in the longitudinal catalogue, or complement already existing releases from premium tours/years (i.e., early and mid '70; late '71; Fall '73; and early '68).

As far as #7 is concerned, though the timbre of Jerry's guitar and Brent's occasional use of bright, harpsichordy keys are clear indicia of the era, the energy and technical play are far more analogous to 77 and 78...right from the beginning this is a 'Jerry show' - you know the ones, like Barton and my beloved 5/14/78, where his omnipotent play flirts with "wow factor"-vigor in & around the other band members and well-familiar songs so that the former are elevated and the latter reveal new - or simply forgotten - joys.

JG grinds into Merle's "Mama Tried" after an amazing and near-evenly split 19-minute MS 1/2 Step/Franklins debut that requires no warm-up whatsoever. Like our beloved Eleven (DaP), the show's brilliance is underscored by remarkable renditions of otherwise pedestrian 1st set staples; and in #7, I can do no better than point you to the one song you'd be most likely to overlook while canvassing this show for its strength: Mexicali Blues. Yup. A Bobby cowboy tunezzzzzz. If nothing else, forward to 2:11 and prepare for about 90 seconds of uniquely extended interpretation by JG.

A short, but fantastic, organic jam springs from the smouldering ashes of "Saint" that closes with JG's opening tease of "He's Gone", which is headed off by percussion into a 16-minute Drumz>Rhythm Devils>Space interlude - that keeps moving and stays within the universe of at least moderate artistic interest - before resurrecting an 18-minute, '72-esque brace of HG & Truckin'.

Importantly, to me at least, Black Peter and Brokedown Palace, which even throughout the strong 70's could slow unbearably to the consistency of molasses during a Polar Vortex (mixed metaphor), remain strong, spry, and - most surprisingly - demonstrative of supple vocal work by Jerry. BP is an especially surprising delight. I'm done. 2nd set 9/4 is for your ears alone...but it continuity is strong and, at under $16, the 2 are a great addition to your late 70's collection (and really, that's just what these shows are!).

peace, Kate

wilfredtjones's picture
Joined: Jun 4 2007
Here's where I went yesterday...

I ending up biking just over 20 miles on the Smrekar and Wildcat trail loops. The mountain bike is a little worse for the wear (20 year old Schwinn hard tail) and needs some professional help. The burgers were more than good. Bacon, green leaf lettuce and sweet onion topped stuffed burgers (egg, bread crumbs, garlic and onion seasonings) on Pretzilla buns with a sour cream, chives and sheep's milk blue cheese topping. A side of Amy's organic chili and Kettle brand Salt and Vinegar potato chips. On the beer menu: Sierra Nevada 'Torpedo', Sierra Nevada Kellerweis, and Tyranena Brewing's 'Rocky's Revenge'. Wildlife seen: several deer, birds, and plenty! of deer ticks.

I took the back roads home and arrived just as the sun set in the western sky. The sunset colors are always best after enjoying a full day in the forest. Worth mentioning is the brief stop at the Buena Vista scenic overlook where the sunset view was not only good but splendid.

Upon arriving home I slapped on 5/14/78, hopped in the shower, listened to Big River, Brown-Eyed Women and part of Let it Grow while I employed multiple tick checks and cleaned up! Then it was a little time for the tube and sweet dreams.

Kate_C.'s picture
Joined: Sep 29 2014
“I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately... front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived."

Thanks guys...I look forward to details of your fishing expedition WJ, where to? And WTJ, we seem to share a passion - mine is religious in fervor - for disappearing into The Wild...after tearing my left Achilles in late Feb. 2013 (2 ruptures {{{shiver}}}), I've finally been able to build trail mileage back up to the 40 mile/week range, with a 15 mile Sat. long run - which affords the opportunity for encounters you'll likely appreciate: 3 Saturdays ago, puppy and I rounded the bend on a ridge trail at elevation and found ourselves 15-20 yards from a beautiful black bear (really, really close)...we all stood staring at one another for what seemed like an eternity, but prolly no more than 5 seconds, then I reached down, jingled the bear bell on my water belt, and it took off! Just amazing. Second, last week puppy disappeared off trail and, through The Bloody Hollies on headphones (quite an achievement, and an indication of her genuine distress), I hear her yipping, then saw her cross the trail at full speed chased by a doe with its head down right on her tail - must have been a fawn in proximity! They darted around with poor puppy crying in flight until I arrested the deer with my high pitched emergency stood, looked at me, twitched its tail, and then fled when I chucked a piece of fallen wood in its general direction. Priceless. Funny, when you get back to "civilization", it's hard to believe these things actually happened!

Shoot, it's late and the pool beckons early...Was gonna talk more 'bout 30, but I'm tremendously excited by the prospect of nearly endless conversations we'll have once The Box arrives and we all begin working through it - let alone the chats spawned in anticipation (I'm predetermined to do this chronologically, as I did with E72).

peace and stay safe in your travels (we've ALOT to look forward to (together)), Kate

wilfredtjones's picture
Joined: Jun 4 2007

It's a show I picked up on your recommendation, Kate. From my recollection it's a good show and worthy of release, no doubt. I seem to remember you were blown away by the NFA>GDTRFB. A lot of folks over at archive think the Jerry solo in LLR is the best. I have to admit, lots of times I slap my player on random play. My player is filled with primo shows, including 5/14/78, but my player is in my backpack with speakers (and other goodies) and I'm either climbing or flying down hills in the forest on my bike. So lots of time, I'm left to guessing the show and era, which is good practice for the 30 Days deal. I'm heading to the forest again tomorrow with homemade burgers and beer in tow. Shall be fun no doubt!

Nice to see ya back, Kate. :-)

Joined: Jan 24 2011
5/14/78 and other treats

Hi Kate, it's great to see you back here!!

When the list of shows that would be in the new box was released I acquired boards of each of the dates that I didn't already have - over half of them. 5/14/78 is one of them. You've definitely piqued my interest in it as I haven't listened to it yet. I'm going on a week long fishing trip with plenty of time to relax in the evenings, so I will be queuing this one up very shortly. You singled out BEW, one of my favorite tunes. How does it compare to the 11/477 version, which as an absolute favorite of mine?

I won't be posting again for a bit - won't have Internet access till I'm on my way home from the trip. Total wilderness.

Glad you're back and take care :)

Kate_C.'s picture
Joined: Sep 29 2014
"But anyway, Toto, we're home and this is my room"...

Wow! It's gr8 to see the old crew posting, at least sporadically, on The Eleven, as well as across newer threads. Back in Feb. I fled the anticlimactic unveiling of Year 50 and the subsequent silliness surrounding FTW, but, with its ineluctable gravitational pull, the Big Box drew me back for ordering and all is forgiven.

I've revisited a number of GOGD boards and absolutely no one is talking about what I consider one of the set's crown jewels: 5/14/78. Recall, on this very thread, I mentioned that only 2 shows among a cast of conventional legends (including the famed deuce from Red Rox '78) had survived regular purges of my iPod over the last 3-4 years: 5/14 and 2/26/77. While discussion of 2/26 took flight, with one wise poster denominating it a 'benchmark' performance against which the most excellent balance of all '77 shows are measured, 5/14 garnered no further press.

Much like our beloved 9/18/74 - good heavens(!!), remember our protracted exaltation of the Dijon show? (which is also included in this epic release...WOOT!!!) - 5/14 is uniformly stellar from opening note to final fading chord...and let me just say, "So you thought you knew 'Brown Eyed Women'?"...

I've missed y'all and I could write pages, but I know where to find, see ya soon!

peace, katherine

wilfredtjones's picture
Joined: Jun 4 2007
handel piano suites

One of the single most enjoyable discs we have in our collection is the Handel Suites played on piano by Keith Jarrett. I've been listening to it quite a bit over the past several months or so and it hasn't let me down. I believe it's on the ECM label. It's an interesting juxtaposition to the Bach English or French suites or Partitas which you can't go wrong with if you find a decent recording or performance of those.

Deadicated's picture
Joined: Jun 4 2007
There was a time

that Europe '72 was coursing through me like my very own blood and then I discovered the December '71 shows - the two probably most famous, 12/05 & 12/10. I happened on a picture-disc - a Jerry shot from the show - of 12/05 that featured all first set material. I put it on a cassette and played that sucker everywhere I went. At about the same time, I was hooked up with a Dylan/Dead disciple who had taped the 12/10 broadcast from KADI-fm to reel-to-reel. Three cassettes of absolute beauty from one Valhalla of a hall, the Fox Theatre, were made in an afternoon. (I also got the 10/24/70 show w/ NRPS). So, of course, I would learn of a run of shows that bridged the Europe - December gap, that only existed in atrocious quality, the ones from the Academy of Music in New York. Holy grails - those darned objects of desire that would never be heard in good sound beyond those hallowed walls.
Years passed. And then...and then there was Dick's Picks 30. Thank you very much. And then the Rhein bonus disc - it's got the meat from 3/22 & 3/23 - but I/we want both shows. And then on Archive are posted 3/23 and 3/21 in fabulous sound ! Wow - what was once thought lost is now found. And now 3/22 & 3/27, with 3/26 as a Dave's Pick, can and will be heard? Nothing left to do but Fall, Fall, Fall. (and Summer, of course!)

Joined: Jan 24 2011
Any day now ...

Op 18 I have only by Tokyo St Qt released around the same time as the middle quartets, including Op 74 and Op 95.

I have quite a few LVB Emperor's:

Furtwangler/Edwin Fischer 2/19/51 Philharmonia Orch
Klemperer/Barenboim Philharmonia Orch
Davis/Kovacevich LSO
Kovacevich Australian Chamber Orch
Menges/Solomon Philharmonia Orch
Horowitz/Reiner RCA Victor Symph Orch
Van Kempen/Kempff Berlin PO

Actually, each of these has something special, but really Kovacevich find the most magic, at least for me. And, I usually prefer the older performers! I have two Kovacevich performances, one where he leads himself - which is a little faster than the older one with Colin Davis. I can't decide between them. In the Furtwangler one, he has a soloist of top calibre, unlike in that #4 I sent. Klemperer/Barenboim is interesting as the combination of Klemperer's older style and a very young Barenboim. Solomon is a unique player (I'm unfamililar with Menges his conductor). Horowitz, as usual, gets colors galore out of everything, but I don't think he gets inside the music like the others. As technical playing, it's breathtaking. And the Kempff with Van Kempen is predictably fantastic - it's the closest rival I've heard to the Kovacevich.

I don't believe I have any Charlie Rouse. Or Louis Smith. The three Monk albums I have are Brilliant Corners, Thelonious Hiself and Monk's Music, none of which have Rouse I don't think.

The only AOM concert I've heard in its entirety is 3/23. Plus I have DP30 and the RtR bonus disc. I haven't listened to 3/27 yet, but I have that one.

Yes, anticipation of what is coming is killing me. Sweetly.

Deadicated's picture
Joined: Jun 4 2007
On the cusp

of an announcement - I can feel it in my bones. Wjonjd, since you've been sated Razumovsky-wise, how 'you set for op.18? Op.74 & 95? I'm going to listen to the "Harp" quartet tomorrow AM, along w/ the Leonore overtures and the op.78, 79 & 81 pno sntas. In addition to the two op.70 piano trios, I listened to Kempff/BPO/Leitner murder Pno Cto no.5 in all its remastered glory this AM. Of the versions I own, this one stands very tall - my fave middle movement (partnered w/ the Rondo Allegro finale) is on the Immortal Beloved soundtrack. Only thing is, it's first movement-less! Oh, no!
Hey!!! Am I alone in feeling Gratefully giddy about 3/22, 3/26 & 3/27/72 and how two can actually be heard in something other than less than mediocre sound, with 3/26 nearing readiness to be placed in the post? Llama al bombero!!!
ATM, Louis Smith "Smithville" - Blue Note Connoisseur Series, purchased 5/14/08. Recorded 3/30/58. Mastered in 24-bit by Ron McMaster. RVG did the original engineering - he's 91 years young - in Hackensack, NJ. Accompanying Mr. Smith are Charlie Rouse (you know, the Monk guy), Sonny Clark (best professional amateur), P.C. aka Paul Chambers (think Miles from the '50's 'til Carter took over) and Art Taylor (he's not Blakey, Clarke, P.J.Jones, Cobb, Roach, Williams or Haynes) BUT he's awful darn good!
Speaking of giddy, if the news we're 'bout to receive has anything in common with that initial flash from a few years ago about a certain crate I just took down off the shelf I'll be really, really, REALLY surprised! Bring it, oh, modern-day prankster of distinction. 'nuff.

Joined: Jan 24 2011

i've been spending some time with some recently acquired rasumovsky quartets performed by the Lindsays. Great middle period go for broke stuff. It's amazing what hearing these by other performers is like after only hearing one version (early Tokyo qt.). They've come to life with a vibrancy they didn't have before.

Never enough time to listen to the heart's content. I've even more recently aquired some very tasty looking morsels which I will post about after I get a chance to savor. Where to start? Where to start? Kid in a candy store :)

Deadicated's picture
Joined: Jun 4 2007

all the way through the Eroica - bam, Mr. Gardiner knows what to do. Next few days'll have op.57, "appassionata" - Perahia or Kempff? BOTH!!! Pno cto # 4, Op.59 Str Quartets, Symph #4, op.60.

Been listening to 3/27/72 in the car (miller 2/15), and it is a revelation. Jerry's steel on LLR will make you shed a tear or two.

I've got "Somethin' Else" by Ornette Coleman on the stereo. Would ornette played a good "Star" at the show?

Deadicated's picture
Joined: Jun 4 2007
The Creation

tomorrow. Beethoven, op.1, Monday.

1/02/72 sounding great! When Mr. Charlie started it was such a relief! Months and months with no cerdo - like some-kinda-lent or something! And, once again, the excitement builds for the tour.

I'm listening to the newly released dubmaster, Scientist, work his magic on something that's been in the can for 35 years entitled, "The Dub album They Didn't Want You to Hear". Ahhhhhhhh! Mas ron!

Deadicated's picture
Joined: Jun 4 2007
Salieri and the Priest

A fave line:

S: How about this one. (plays K525 allegro)

P: (sings along) That's charming! I didn't know you wrote that?

S: I didn't. (pregnant pause) THAT was Mozart ... the little despicable varmint! (or some such)

Patron saint of all mediocrities, indeed.

And speaking of varmints, Punxsutawney Phil prognosticated six more weeks of Winter and I will be forced to endure more Hayden. I've still got some sonatas, the op.64 & 76 quartets, the London symphs, the Seasons and the Creation - Beethoven will have to wait. Just listened to MA Hamelin's piano concertos disc and found it revelatory (if I may use a word oft used by Kate). Great sound/balance(Hyperion), nice chamber orch support, and tremendous piano playing. I didn't know Haydn rocked piano concertos!

Finished 12/12 - ex! - and started 12/15 (I'd all-but forgotten about that one!). Last night, before the sposa and I ventured through the tundra and got a bite to eat, I lopped my head with 2/27/69 - I pronounce the box and my head dusted. (Can the late Jan, Avalon shows be too far in the offing?)

Joined: Jan 24 2011
Les Choristes and Kate

I'm glad you liked it. I loved the ending - he takes Pépinot out of the system and raises him himself.

And I also hope Kate will return - she said she would at some point. She writes so well, and comes up with the most interesting things to say and such clever ways to say them - a real pleasure to read. Something to look forward to :)

wilfredtjones's picture
Joined: Jun 4 2007
speaking of flicks

I did see "Les Choristes". Thanks for the recco, wjonjd. It was enjoyable.

P.S. recco a Kate_C word, remember her? Here's hoping she'll float back again sometime to twist my brain with her prose.

Joined: Jan 24 2011

Actually, 2 oopses.

I misread a post somewhere and got and listened to 12/12 instead of 12/11. I will have to go back and get 12/11 now :)

The other oops is I completely forgot about the "bordello" opera! I have Gardiner's version of that one too, and no others.

Yes, I LOVE that movie as well. It's completely inaccurate in so many ways, but it doesn't matter - it's just such a great movie. I love the depiction of Salieri as the patron saint of mediocrities!

Deadicated's picture
Joined: Jun 4 2007

As far as a comparison of the core to the trad core, I must claim ignorance. These are the only set I have and though I've listened to Idomeneo and Serail a handful of times, I have yet to really dig into the lebretti and become a student of all of them. All good things in all good time, eh? Do you ever watch Amadeus? One of my absolute fave movies of all time!!!

In listening to the Winterland 12/11/72, I rediscovered (I believe) the first time in Half Step where Jerry plays a lead before the Acrooooss the Rio Grande-o, acroooss the lazy river refrain. Of course! Also, enjoyed the absolute elsewhere in Dark Star with a Stella chaser. The DS reminded me somehow of Miles "On the Corner" record - the Stella beautiful, just beautiful. "Bout ready to start 12/12 and then, of course, the marathon 12/31 - New Riders included!

Joined: Jan 24 2011
Gardiner Mozart Operas

I have Idomeneo and La Clemenza di Tito by Gardiner and they are excellent. Do you know how the core operas compare to traditional performances?

I have a lot of versions of Figaro (Klemperer, Furtwangler in german, Giulini, Erich Kleiber, Vittorio Gui, Solti). Don Giovanni I have 3(!) versions by Furtwangler, 2 by Klemperer and Giulini. For Cosi I have Klemperer and Bohm. And for the Magic Flute I have 3 by Furtwangler, Klemperer, Ostman (period instruments), and Beecham.

So, except for Magic Flute, I don't have any period instrument performances of the core. But, I have so many to enjoy - this is the reason I'm focusing on stuff I don't have at all!

How critical are the Gardiner versions? If nothing I else, I would consider getting Figaro - you can NEVER have too many of those.

Deadicated's picture
Joined: Jun 4 2007
More excellence at the library.

Upon return to the biblioteca to return my Rach/Ives cache, I was going to just head out to do anothe errand but instead decided to take another pass through the classical section. Score! I've seen Gardiner's Mozart operas recently released as a box for a song on Amazon and was thinking of purchasing. I've needed just Cosi and La Clemenza di Tito so it probably wasn't going to happen, but there it was! It was in the mid-30's yesterday, too, so I thought I'd go for a run - btw, I hope Kate didn't have a run in with a bear or something - while listening to 12/11/72 en route. 12/10/72 is very good, but 12/11 steps it up somewhat - there's a Dark Star on the horizon. Man, I sure wish Dave's 13 could arrive in March - next year there's going to be a science to listening to all the AOM shows, etc.

Also, diggin' into 2/21 & 2/22/69; next weekend the FW box will get a good dusting!

Joined: Jan 24 2011
Hey D'Cated

Check PM :)

Deadicated's picture
Joined: Jun 4 2007
I guess it's my lucky Dead day!

Yes! May I pplease take you up on your offer? (my addy's in the pm)

Joined: Jan 24 2011
Access to Delights

Hey Deadicated,

I know how to capture the "stream" from the Archive site. This allows me to download the shows as variable bit-rate MP3's. They usually download as somewhere between 160kbs and 280kbs depending on the file. Since they're variable bit-rate, not constant bit-rate, the quality is better than a constant bit-rate of the same number.

Some people only want the lossless, which would be nice but I think you can only get those now via torrenting which I hardly ever bother with.

If you don't mind the MP3's, I can let you know how to get them, or I can get them and burn them to CD and send them.

I will have to check out my local library and see what they've got!!


Deadicated's picture
Joined: Jun 4 2007
You know

wjonjd, I haven't veered from my Uchida Mozart sonatas path - ever! ... well I dabbled in Eschenbach for a minute ... and I've thought about, but not laid my money down for, the Ingrid Haebler set. But something seems right, very right about the Hamelin salvo. Thinking about Mozart right now is akin to being on a plane to Hawaii!
I went to the library - a very good one at that - and scored the Rachmaninov/Ashkenazy 1st Piano Snta/Chopin Variations and Rarities discs, as well as Tilson Thomas/Ives "Holidays, etc." and Symph #3, etc. I've listened to the former of the the two Rach and Ives discs and love 'em both! I hadn't listened to Ives for a while so, of course, this set me on me ear. What a trip! Holidays on President's Day!
On an entirely different note, I noticed an abundance of new Charlie Millers on the Archive:
3/27/72 What!?!
Would you, or any one you know, have access to these delights?


Joined: Jan 24 2011
Hamelin and Mozart

Based on the Haydn set I have, this is something to get excited about. But, I already have two complete sets (Andras Schiff and Walter Klien) and lots of individual performances of many of them.

Maybe one day, but I'm still focusing on compositions I don't have at all yet. If you get it, let me know what you think :)

Deadicated's picture
Joined: Jun 4 2007
Something to get excited about?
PalmerEldritch's picture
Joined: Jul 25 2011
Valentines Day with Martha

Just back from a Valentine's day matinee concert with Martha Argerich and the Los Angeles Philharmonic. Argerich was just wonderful. She's 73 and better than ever. Well, I mean, I never saw her when she was younger, but I just can't imagine she was ever better. She played a beautiful version of the Schumann piano concerto. Her encore was the first part of Schumann's Kinderszenen, and it was the highlight of the concert for me. Just amazingly inspired. The Phil closed with a ravishing performance of Strauss' "Death and Transfiguration" with guest conductor Juraj Valcuha. Then listened to DaP13 disc 2 on the drive home. The "Roses" arguably the musical peak of the day. Hard to beat the good old Grateful Dead!

Joined: Jan 24 2011
A few short thoughts

Hi Deadicated,

I'll get back to this more fully in the near future, but you made me think of something I wanted to write right away.

You mentioned the harder driving tempos. Well, Klemperer, in particular, has some of the slowest tempos ever by anyone in the history of the universe. BUT, you've GOT to try some of it. He's incredible. The tempos may take a while to get used to, but they're certainly different than, say, Gardiner or Pinnock. It's great to have them both ways.

If you do try a/some Klemperer discs, the EMI Haydn set is great. I believe you can get a large Mozart Klemperer box now from EMI that's pretty inexpensive. There's a "romantic" box, a separate Mahler box I think, I don't remember them all. But, try something of his; preferably something you already know by someone else. When the tempos throw you at first, just lay back, close your eyes, and just sink into it. If you don't take to it, that's ok - it's worth a shot, and most of the standard orchestral repertoire is available by him. I'd stick with EMI or Testament releases for him for the best sound quality. Most of them sound just great, and not just for their age.

Take care for now

PalmerEldritch's picture
Joined: Jul 25 2011
Hamelin Haydn

I'm happy this thread has returned. I meant to make some notes of all the interesting recommendations but then the thread disappeared. I took the Hamelin Haydn recommendation for Sonata 46. I need to listen to this one since I'm going to see Perahia play it next month. The Hamelin seems like a great choice. I've listened to it 5 times in a row now. Very nice. I like it much more than Gould's Haydn, which I never warmed to. I've also been listening to Franck's "Prelude, Choral et Fugue". Perahia will also be playing it next month. The pianist/writer David Dubal called it "mystical" and "the most important French work for the piano of the late 19th century". I have the Kissin version. Great stuff!

Deadicated's picture
Joined: Jun 4 2007
Ash/Rach y mas

Man, you have to get this so you can tell me about the sound - I'm thinking about grabbing it, too.

The Hamelin 2cd is the 1st (not numbered) of three - all are well played and, like you said, sound terrific.

I'm with you on the harpsichord - it's like Irish music, a little goes a long, long way. Gardiner does have a recently released box of Haydn masses, but I'm not going there ... any time soon.

I've heard Solti do a couple, few London symphs, but I know not of older school crony Klemperer.
And I don't know Walter/Beecham Mozart. When I got into Uchida/Tate piano concertos, I later decided to try the Tate/ECO symphs and they're real good, but I prefer the harder driving tempos.

Hombre, down the line it's a good idea to own the Gardiner/Brahms symphs WITH companion pieces - is aurally tactile a fitting description? I don't know.

I have a Rubenstein/Dvorak/Brahms piano quintet disc that really measures up - it's the only Rubenstein I own.

As for Ives, he's a trip!!! You made me dig up what I've got so I could rave. I've got the piano sonata (Concord) partnered w/ Barber's pno snta, which are great and a str qrt disc, no.1 & 2 (Lydian Str Qt) which needs more listening. But I have that symph 1 & 4 disc to which you refer and it's a mind blower! Both of 'em. Please, let me recommend a 2cd, sonatas for vln & pno disc on Bridge - the fourth will remind you of those scary episodes in the other one from spr/summer '71. Whoa! Tengo que irme!

Joined: Jan 24 2011
Deadicated - just saw this :)

No, I didn't get the Ash/Rach box (piano, I have his symphony one) yet, but I guess I better not wait for Tower Records to open up on Saturday, huh?

I have a 2-disc Hamelin Haydn Piano disc, but it doesn't have a volume number. Maybe it's a sampler? It's excellent in any case, with typically full and spacious sound from Hyperion.

I have two volumes of the BAT piano sonatas (#38-40&43 and 41/42/44/45) They are typically excellent also, but these are pieces that I have nothing to compare with.

About the Pinnock Haydn Sturm & Drang - when I started collecting them, they didn't have a box. I ended up with 5 out of 6 of the discs when it went out of print! Not long after, DG Archiv released a disc with #42,45 and 46. I have no idea why they did it that way, so I ended up with a duplicat of #45, and I'm missing one symphony that would be in the box :( Performance-wise, I always love Pinnock, but I prefer the symphonies without the harpsichord continuo, and will eventually get other versions of these. I don't know if Gardiner has done these yet, but if he does, I hope he decides to leave the harpsichord off, or at least to keep it very low-key.

My favorite Haydn symphonies are, not surprisingly, those performed by Klemperer.

Of the Mozart symphonies, I got Pinnock's Early Symphonies box, and it is very good. I have so many versions of the later symphonies, but Gardiner is the only period instrument one, except for #39 with Franz Bruggen and the Orchestra of the 18th Century, which is pretty good, but not as good as Gardiner. My favorites of these are probably Bruno Walter's. I've compared the playing one after the other on several sets of the late symphonies, and Walter's is the one always stands out with unique and breathtaking phrasing And, I couldn't live without some of Beecham's recordings of these as well.

I some of the Gardiner Brahms on the radio, soon after it was released, and it IS fantastic as you would expect. But, I have several other sets, and I have begun to primarily (not exclusively) focus on pieces that I don't own yet at all.

Wish I could help out with the Haydn piano trio recommendation, but it sounds like you're already familiar with Beaux Arts, and those two volumes are the only ones I have - but yes, I do recommend them very much.

My only recent purchases have been a bargain box of Rubinstein playing Brahms because there were several chamber pieces on it that I have very little Rubinstein, and then I also picked up 2 Ives discs with the CSO and Tilson-Thomas because they had symphonies 1,4 and Holidays. Thomas has a third disc, which wasn't in stock, but it has symphonies 2 and 3 which I already have by Bernstein and Hanson. Symphony #1 particularly surprised me by how much fun it was. Very Very recommended!

marye's picture
Joined: May 26 2007
let me know

if any more threads disappear on you. Luckily this one hadn't gone far!

Deadicated's picture
Joined: Jun 4 2007
Back from the ashes

Glad to see the Eleven do a Lazarus. Since we departed to the absolute elsewhere, I've gone from 11/19 to 11/24 - just one more November show to go. They're all so good.

Blasted through Rocky, too. wjonjd, did you pop for the Ashkenazy/Rach-box? I complemented my collection with Ashkenazy's Transcriptions disc (finishes w/ the Star Bangled Banner) and Corelli Variations/Etudes from the mid-80's. Now I'm touring through Haydn for February and will repair to Beethoven for March. Mozart always rules April and May and onward.

I started the Haydn listening with Marc Andre Hamelin's sonatas, Vol.1, and Pinnock's Morning/Afternoon/Evening symphonies. MAH has three volumes of sonatas and one piano concertos disc - all on Hyperion. I haven't heard the concertos disc, but the sonatas are fine - I do have to take breaks because it's a lot of Haydn piano sonatas! BTW, any recommended piano trios? I've got my eye on BAT, but any advice would be welcomed.
I've been listening to the three symphonies since the late-80's and find their light touch excellent morning music. I also have Pinnock's Sturm and Drang box, but would pounce on Gardiner's should he decide to have a go at them.

Speaking of Gardiner, I saw your Gardiner list and found that I have many of the same ones. I've listened to the Mozart symphonies since they were released, but have purchased and enjoyed Pinnock's, too. Might I recommend Gardiner's Brahms symphonies on Soli deo Gloria? What's cool about them is each is partnered with choral works AND they sound absolutely fantastic! Numero 2 is especially gorgeous.

One more thing - I had set and setting in full-swing while listening to Dave's 13, but had promised my daughter a "get-the-Led-out" session and it happened to fall right at the end of the second disc. Aaaarghh! What I've found interesting so far comments-wise is how posters are grappling with adjectives to describe the 1st disc. Man, it just can't be done, can it? It sports the usual intonation challenges, Jerry on/Bobby out-of-sorts, the seventh member having his say - but the sound, is as usual for the series, spot-on and an incredible upgrade of an already-incredible circulating Miller board with the original showing on the LMA 133,445 downloads with 66 reviews. I love this show, but my heart's still with the Eleven. Nos vemos.

wilfredtjones's picture
Joined: Jun 4 2007
ask and ye shall receive...


Don't tell me this town ain't got no heart, you just gotta poke around...

rdevil's picture
Joined: Nov 2 2007

Clicked over here after seeing your post, Wjonjd, as I just happen to be listening to this show right now. After much consideration I feel it's fair to say that DaP11 is my favorite of the first 13, but I truly do like them all.

I don't know much about classical music but love what I heard in the movie Breaking Away.

Joined: Jan 24 2011
Recent classical buys

Picked up 2 of a CD set (each CD sold individually, although a box might be available) of Ives by Michael Tilson Thomas on Sony. They have symphonies 1 and 4 and the Holidays symphony plus Unanswered Question (revised and original versions) and Central Park in the Dark. The remaining disc that I don't have has symphonies 2 and 3, but I have other excellent versions of those (Bernstein and Howard Hanson). Really love these, especially symphony 1 which I had never heard before. Classic Ives, but less experimental than some of his other stuff.

Also picked up a CD OF Nathan Milstein playing the Glazunov, Dvorak, and Tcaikovsky concertos with Steinberg/Pittsburgh (first two) and Friedrich Stock(!!!!)/Chicago. I have very little Milstein compared to some of the other giants - really enjoying his special playing.

Lastly, just picked up a bargain box of Rubinstein playing Brahms (9 CDs). Has both concertos, piano sonata #3, the violin sonatas with Szeryng, the piano trios with Szeryng and Fournier, the cello sonatas with Piatigorsky, and the piano quartets and quintet with the Guarneri quartet. I haven't heard it all yet, but the concertos are excellent. I compared trio #1 with a version I have with Golub-Kaplan-Carr trio. The Rubinstein-Szeryng-Fournier version has much different tempos (usually slower) for a very different effect. Excellent.

Joined: Jan 24 2011
Rocky and Friends

Hey there DCated -

I have one set of the symphonies that I am very happy with - Ashkenazy and the Concertgebouw. I don't have anything to compare them with, but they feel/sound excellent to me.

As I mentioned, I have several versions of the piano concertos and can tell you about those if you want, and I have individual solo piano works spread across many different CD's of various pianists (usually they are CD's of a pianist, not specifically of Rocky's music.)

Other than that the only things I have are (I mentioned that Rocky was underrepresented in my collection):

Isle of the Dead - on a Reiner/CSO RCA disc

Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini
Rachmaninov/Stokowski Philadelphia Orchestra (Naxos)
Gavrilov/Muti Philadelphia Orchestra (EMI)

Two 2 disc sets of piano music for 2 pianos/4 hands
Rachmaninov - Piano Music for 2 Pianos and Piano Duet
Brigitte Engerer and Oleg Maisenberg on Harmonia Mundi
Great Pianists of the 20th Century Vol 15
Lyubov Bruk & Mark Taimanov (coupled with works by Arensky/Busoni/Mozart/Poulenc)

2 short pieces for violin and piano in an Oistrakh live collection on Praga
Daisies Op 38/3 (Oistrakh/Yampolski)
Vocalise Op 34/14 (Oistrakh/Kollegorskaya)

One short choral piece from his Vespsers
Vespers - Now Let Thy Servant Depart
(Robert Shaw The Power and The Majesty)

and that's it! Someone else will have to give recommendations for other works.

Of the above discs, the most amazing are the disks for 2 pianos/4 hands. Both are great. Rocky with 2 hands is full and 'plush' by any standard. Try Rocky music for 4 hands!

I'm not familiar with Carissimi piece - I'll see if I can preview it somewhere.

As far as Bach Cantatas/Gardiner, I love Gardiner's work, but I have the complete Cantata set with Harnoncourt (60 discs). I picked up a few duplicates of some of these works (just a few) for variety and comparison, including Rilling, Gardiner, and Rifkin. I think I'm set on the Bach Cantata front! Additions to this would not be near the top of my acquisition need list :)

But, I do have other Gardiner discs:
Bach Magnificat
Bach Mass in B Minor
Bach St. Matthew Passion
Beethoven: Mass in C
Beethoven: Missa Solemnis
Berlioz: Harold In Italy
Brahms: Ein Deutsches Requiem
Handel: Dixit Dominus, Zadok The Priest
Monteverdi: L'Incoronazione Di Poppea
Moneverdi: Vespers/Magnificat
Mozart: Die Entfuhrun Aus Dem Serail
Mozart: Idomeneo
Mozart: La Clemenza Di Tito
Mozart: Mass in C Minor
Mozart: Piano Concertos (w/ Bilson)
Mozart: Requiem
Mozart: Symphonies 29,31,32,33,34,35,36,38,39,40,41

All of his recordings are excellent. He never just goes through the motions. When I'm looking for period performances, Gardiner is generally my favorite, followed by Trevor Pinnock. If he had had a complete Bach Cantata set when I was first collecting them, I probably would have gone for his.

Joined: Jan 24 2011
Flaubert, Flowbee - Tomato, Tomoto

I guess it wasn't a 10 on the laugh-o-meter. :)

Deadicated's picture
Joined: Jun 4 2007
Rachmaninov recommendation

wjonjd - first, I'd like to say thanks for all your recommendations (especially the Kempff/Schubert!). I do, indeed, heartily recommend the 2014 Ashkenazy, Complete Piano - he's a natural with the Rach-man. The concertos are from the '80's with, your fave, Haitink/Concertgebouw, but the sound-world is ex. I tried the earlier ones with Previn, but found them lacking verve. The box does include one non-piano piece, Symphonic Dances, which I have partnered with a tremendous work, called Isle of the Dead. Speaking of chorale works, his Vespers (Hiller/Estonian Phil) on Harmonia Mundi, is drop-dead gorgeous. And a polyphonic piece that I find loaded with pathos is Carissimi's Jepthe (Gardiner/Monteverde Choir) on Erato. The Bach/Gardiner, Cantata Pilgrimage on Soli Deo Gloria, initially sold as double-discs in state-of-the-art packaging, is now a limited, bargain-priced as a box, sans the bells and whistles. I have a handful of them and they have to be some of the finest sounding music I've yet heard. I'd pounce on it, but I'd be dippin' to deeply into my GD fund.

Recommendations on Rach-man symphs or chamber works?

wilfredtjones's picture
Joined: Jun 4 2007
you mean...


Joined: Jan 24 2011

Hmm. Can you take seriously any guy who goes by the appellation "Guy", and appears to have had something to do with the Flowbee?

wilfredtjones's picture
Joined: Jun 4 2007

What's that? ;-) We live in the stone age and still go to the library. I already checked, and it's there...along with some Maupassant.

Joined: Jan 24 2011
The Chorus

I believe that the movie The Chorus is avilable on Netflix now. I hope you enjoy it. I love it and the music throughout is excellent. I didn't bother to check who wrote the music, but I will.

wilfredtjones's picture
Joined: Jun 4 2007
choral music, movies

I've heard of Lux Aurumque by Eric Whitacre, I sang on that in college. I agree the choral sound can be so ethereal as to be among the most beautiful sounds on earth.

Thanks so much wjonjd for the film suggestion. My wife and I will love to watch that together. French is her 2nd language, and English is her 3rd. Although, chances are she has seen it, I haven't. We recently watched 'Jeux Interdits' together. That's a sad movie. Btw, she participated in master classes with Olivier Messaien while in Paris. Right now, she's working on a piece of his, Le Merle Noir for flute and piano for an upcoming performance in February.

Joined: Jan 24 2011
I don't know that piece, but I'll check it out

I'm not very familiar with very modern choral, orchestral, chamber, etc. works. The most modern stuff in my collection is some Takemitsu, Benjamin Britten, Philip Glass, Martinu, Messiaen, and maybe a few others I'm not recollecting right now. Of those, the only one from which I have a lot of vocal music would be Britten. His melodies have a very distinct sound.

I just googled the piece you mentioned and it's on youtube. I'll check it out. I do love choral music, but the vast majority (almost all) of what I have is much older. Personal favorites are Berlioz' Requiem, Faure's Requiem, Mozart's Requiem, Verdi's Requiem (a theme developing here?), Mozart's Coronation Mass, the Schubert masses, Beethoven's Missa Solemnis and Mass in C, very old polyphonic stuff like Palestrina, Schutz, Tallis, Byrd, etc., Monteverdi. Oh, I have a complete collection of the Bach sacred Cantatas (I think it's 60 CD's) - a lot of it is incredible choral music. I have several collections of choruses from various operas that are great. There's lots of other stuff, but that's what comes to mind right away.

I've never sung in a chorus, as I believe the penalty for what I would inflict is probably death by stoning.

Oh, one of my favorite CD's is the soundtrack to the movie "The Chorus". Do you know it? It's a french film about a man who gets a teaching job at a boarding school for discipline problem young students. He thinks of himself as a failed musician, and decides to create a choir from the students, teaching them to sing using music he writes for them. The music in the film is great.

bolo24's picture
Joined: Nov 25 2009
Choral music, anyone?

Lux Aeterna by Morten Lauridsen is the most beautiful choral music I've ever heard, having had the privilege of singing it on a few occasions. An absolutely transporting experience, whether singing it or listening to it on a proper set of headphones. I imagine it's how heaven must sound.