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    marye
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    In one of the other topics, one of the folks seemed not to be so sure of the reception he'd get for saying he was a youth minister at his church. In my experience, Deadheads span the full spectrum from Agnostic to Zoroastrian. I've met atheist Deadheads, Muslim Deadheads, Buddhist Deadheads, Catholic Deadheads, Jewish Deadheads, and Wiccan Deadheads. My Deadhead friends are all over the map on this stuff, and as far as I'm concerned one of the real richnesses of the scene is the ability to see how things look to other folks and, sometimes, experience it from their world. Believe it if you need it, if you don't, just pass it on. But talk about it here, and please maintain a safe respectful place to do so.

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  • cosmicbadger
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    well
    I just think that everyone should respect and accept everyone else's opinion and just be kind and gentle with eachother and listen to the Grateful Dead.
  • Mike Edwards
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    Anyone else got an idea?
    Imagine There's No Heaven
  • Anonymous (not verified)
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    saucer of milk for Mr. Badger...
    ha ha!! i just re-read my post!!no no, i didn't mean that, you daft old coot!! what i meant to say, in my typically mangled fashion, was that i agree with your comments regarding "accept that the alternative is that there is no alternative and no need for an alternative...." in other words, what you write is a good way of looking at things; i MYSELF am looking too hard for answers and that applying that approach is quite sensible and reasonable!!! i rather stupidly linked that together and it came out in a Tower Of Babble!! i told you i write as thoughts enter the brain!!!! i never thought chinese whispers translated to the written form!! ha ha!! my apologies, CB, i quite royally fucked my response, Sir! (although i was tempted to remove that line and then castigate you for making shit up about me ha ha!!! we should've started a surreal feud where i finished the argument with that immortal showstopper, "thats what Hitler would've said!"). don't you dare turn bland on me or i'll come round to your abode with some sand for the vaseline!
  • cosmicbadger
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    uh?
    '...but, as you wrote, maybe i'm too busy myself looking for answers ' I wrote nothing of the sort. I was merely answering your question and engaging in the debate as you invited. I was not criticising you or casting any nasturtiums (!) on how you live your life. Seems all I can do round here these days is unintenionally upset people I like. Seems I've lost my touch. Time to shut up and stick to the bland stuff.
  • Anonymous (not verified)
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    "would you suck a 10 old banana?"
    thank you CB.i know i let my own confusion and disappointment spill over into incoherency. i try to type as feelings enter my mind which results in a jumble of fragments a lot of the time. i suppose it was one of the reasons why i thought better of it the first time i posted the videos; am i just contributing to criticism when i could've posted a more deeper, compassionate, emotional video? (unfortunately, some of the ones i'd like to have shared, i can't embed, including three wonderful documentaries: "We Were Here: The AIDS Years In San Francisco", "Baka: A Cry From The Rainforest" and "The Interrupters" about intervention in gang violence in amongst the youth of Chicago). maybe i'm frustrated sometimes that some who have such a sharp intelligence only use it for commentating instead of making a larger difference. but maybe that is THEIR reason for being here; to make others aware and point out wrongdoing. to get others to at least think and begin to question. i do believe that if the Church really spoke from the heart and laid themselves bare; if they apologised for some of these terrible crimes that have been perpetrated in their name, then a greater spiritual revolution and evolution would arrive. maybe this is pie in the sky. i suppose i should leave that behind too and just concentrate on looking forward, not backward. maybe it's just that sense of injustice that rankles so. i think that while i was heartened and appreciative when Fry & Hitchen said what they said, i was also slightly disappointed that they didn't engage in other ways of moving forward. but, as you wrote, maybe i'm too busy myself looking for answers instead of simply floating in this incredible pool of life as we know it and letting the current carry me wherever i'm supposed to go. i feel rather stupid now actually. but hey ho. i always regret starting these things, as i always feel i should've used my time more wisely. a rather unfortunate habit of riling against the world's ills, pissing in the wind and then explaining what i should've done instead. i get upset at the suffering some have to endure too easily i suppose. powerless in a way to help but feeling the hurt on their behalf so strongly. maybe there's an envy of others with a strong faith; to question so pointedly but offer no relief. hurt but feel helpless. maybe a self-imposed flagellation of some kind. but i do care, that's what i want to get across. fuck me, it's Therapy Thursday!! what a tremendous cock, eh?!! i need some light-hearted relief! comedy to the rescue and viewings of Michael Palin and Bruce Parry, i feel. my apologies everyone!! how embarrassing....
  • cosmicbadger
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    Hitchen post
    Hmm Actually I find the Hitchens' rant you posted not one of his best moments ...impressive and shocking in its way, but rather one dimensional too. Have you read his book 'God is not Great'; it is a much more balanced account, full of polemic (his dismantling of the mother Theresa myth is masterful), but also very witty, erudite and actually full of humanity too. You ask what alternative Hitchens offers. Well the trick is to accept that the alternative is that there is no alternative and no need for an alternative. We are what we are, here and now, we come from nothing and we go to nothing and if we all spent more effort making the most of that amazing situation we find ourselves in, the world would likely be a better place. Actually, for me at least, it is a form of letting go and liberation that perhaps a Buddhist would recognise (an irony that I am sure did not escape Mr Hitchens). In God Is Not Great he explains his vision 'Above all, we are in need of a renewed Enlightenment, which will base itself on the proposition that the proper study of mankind is man and woman [referencing Alexander Pope]. This Enlightenment will not need to depend, like its predecessors, on the heroic breakthroughs of a few gifted and exceptionally courageous people. It is within the compass of the average person. The study of literature and poetry, both for its own sake and for the eternal ethical questions with which it deals, can now easily depose the scrutiny of sacred texts that have been found to be corrupt and confected. The pursuit of unfettered scientific inquiry, and the availability of new findings to masses of people by electronic means, will revolutionize our concepts of research and development. Very importantly, the divorce between the sexual life and fear, and the sexual life and disease, and the sexual life and tyranny, can now at last be attempted, on the sole condition that we banish all religions from the discourse. And all this and more is, for the first time in our history, within the reach if not the grasp of everyone.'
  • Anonymous (not verified)
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    no child's behind left
    a further musing, if i may...i'd be interested to hear from fellow Hitch admirers, their opinion on this trend of condemnation and negative association as opposed to offering alternatives and a dedication to them. there seems in my mind, an almost pathological obsession with nay-saying and critique; these issues must be addressed of course, but why relegate one's self to a sideline of commentary rather than pro-activity? i greatly admire Hitchens on many levels, and Stephen Fry's comments are also close to my heart. but, like Zappa was wont to do, it seems that a constant, almost obsessive buffeting of where others are going wrong; an intellectual wallowing in quicksand, that ultimately, offers forth no possible road map to a more agreeable state, is the preferred option. wouldn't time have been better spent positing a more agreeable course? this may well read like a mighty contradiction, and a frankly hypocritical idea from someone who has ranted and rained down scorn in the past; i hold up my hands. but, by passionately arguing for the removal of religious intrusion into the lives of the nonplussed, surely a debate equivalent to a literary roundabout is the only outcome. why not concentrate on something positive? why not dedicate one's life to a "better choice"? handsomely paid intellectual discussion, the equivalent of a Linus blanket; an enveloping warmth of fire-side safety-chat that is a lot easier to indulge in than a hoisting of the sleeves. the comfortable refuge of the "educated"? i'm not sure. i AM a fan. but i get tired of the apparent absolving of the commentator. a verbal jerk-off. maybe i commit the same "crime". maybe it's all healthy. maybe i'm still wrestling. anyone the patience to comment out there?
  • Anonymous (not verified)
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    the devil's in the details
    i take my bows, TL!!! you're very kind!i do think the points raised in the speeches are incredibly pertinent; they are things that must be addressed, i feel, by anyone claiming to be a "Catholic". i believe that many people would be horrified if it was their boss or mother or father that behaved in a particular way and spoke loudly and with self-justification and took it upon themselves to claim they were speaking on your behalf; people wouldn't stand for it and rightly so. but it seems that the Church, as an organisation, is allowed to behave in this manner. how come? that isn't a self-righteous remark, it's what happens, isn't it? i do believe that any religion should have the same warnings and restrictions that hallucinogenic plants endure. and natural let us not forget, these are NATURAL plants; if everything on earth was placed here by God, then they were put here for a reason also. both are dangerous, both can be abused, both can lead to enlightenment and comfort and safety and compassion and love. but they are the same. a quick mention of Terence McKenna's wonderful "Food Of The God's" book is important here. me personally? i'm only interested in whether people are Kynd or not. that is only what concerns me. i don't lay the blame for systematic torture, abuse and death at the feet of every Christian folk. something as futile and pathetic as treating every German as a fully paid up member of the nazi party and complicit in the holocaust. utter nonsense i think you'd agree. i encourage as many world views and opinions and beliefs and faiths as possible. none of us know what the answers are. so it means we're the same. i hope both sides of the argument take note. and yes, Mr. Pid, a topic for philosophical discussion would be a good addition. possible suggestions for a title could be: Islam or Isn'tlam? Our Führer, who art in Heaven McDonalds or Burka King? "I can't believe it's not Buddha!" Jeezy-Chreezy Lemon-Squeezy Allah Rama Ding Dong Choirboys have a centre parting because... Sikh And Destroy Sokka Cack-eye Ate My Hamster "I'm just not that Hindu you" "The Pope, a Black and a Jew walk into a Bar..." Christ Christ Baby, doo doo doo doo-do-do-doo-doo "He's not the Messiah, he's a VERY NAUGHTY BOY!" or Philosophy. whatever gets us through this complicated and sometimes scary life, i say. peace to all.
  • TigerLilly
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    Well put, Jonapi
    huzza!
  • Anonymous (not verified)
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    due to popular demand...
    well, far be it from me to be a tease...your wishes are my command. however, contrary to posts that've been misinterpreted before, this video (in my opinion) is not intended to denounce religion or claim there is no God. i do believe there is a God, but not necessarily in the popular form so worshipped today. there is no doubt that many working in various religions around the world are selfless, honest and do more for humankind that either i, or very possibly, you, the good people on the forums. i do feel that if the Catholic Church were to really listen to what Mr. Fry & Mr. Hitchens had to say, and offer the kind of apologies that we would be so quick to give, then the world would be a better place. this is in no way intended to poke fun or belittle people's faith. these videos deal with facts that desperately need addressing. i think any moral, right-minded person would agree. i'm not an atheist and never will be. i'm not an "anything".
    The Intelligence² Debate - Christopher Hitchens... by Xrunner17
    The Intelligence² Debate - Stephen Fry (Unedited) by Xrunner17 please everyone think clearly before ripping it apart. i can see no reason why science and spirituality aren't the very best of bedfellows. let us remember that by only focusing on "intelligence" , one can be just as guilty and blinkered as another party.
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In one of the other topics, one of the folks seemed not to be so sure of the reception he'd get for saying he was a youth minister at his church. In my experience, Deadheads span the full spectrum from Agnostic to Zoroastrian. I've met atheist Deadheads, Muslim Deadheads, Buddhist Deadheads, Catholic Deadheads, Jewish Deadheads, and Wiccan Deadheads. My Deadhead friends are all over the map on this stuff, and as far as I'm concerned one of the real richnesses of the scene is the ability to see how things look to other folks and, sometimes, experience it from their world. Believe it if you need it, if you don't, just pass it on. But talk about it here, and please maintain a safe respectful place to do so.
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I just think that everyone should respect and accept everyone else's opinion and just be kind and gentle with eachother and listen to the Grateful Dead.
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lemme know if you want the new topic started and what you want it called if so...
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could my suggestions be appropriate?....just a little joshing, that's all!!!
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yer scarin' me...
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I'll second Mr. Pid's proposal: "General philosophy...for those who have no use for Religion and don't mind saying so...all points of view are fair game, discussion encouraged, but flaming, hate speech and ad hominem attacks, no." My suggestion for a name is Imagine There's No Heaven.
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means that we accept the concept that there IS one, thus STILL based in Christianity, so personally I vote no to that one for a non-religious philosophy thread. How about: Deep Philosophical Thoughts
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'Life, the Universe and Everything'
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Mark 7:15 "There is nothing that enters a man from outside that can defile him, but the things that come out of him, those are the things that defile him" For example if a guy drinks whiskey and gets sleepy, and another drinks milk and gets mean, which one is sinning?
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for Badger's title! Works for me!
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yeah, i'll go with that too. first post should be why he feels the need to upset people so.........ha ha ha ha!!!!!!!!!!
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I agree because everybody has the right to have any opinion about anything so long as it is kynde and nice.
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badger's gonna go all honeybadger on you one day! :D
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ha ha!!does that mean he "just doesn't give a shit...Cosmic Badger's crazy...he's a bad ass...he just doesn't give a shit"!!!!!!! or does it mean he's going to smother me in sticky nectar and use that long moist tongue of his......
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I think we should be kind and thoughtful and not smother the space set aside for our believing brethren and sistren.
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bland or sulking?!!!!
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Is fine by me. Though we could then just cut to the chase and post "42" and end the discussion right there. I have been staying away from commenting on this thread, as I'm concerned about hijacking it away from its "mission statement" and its intended audience...though it seems the topic seems a bit underutilized lately. I had started working on what was intended as a letter to the editor of my local paper on the subject of government-sponsored prayer, a very hot hot-button issue on the local level these days in my neck of the Bible belt. But the letter turned into a much-too-long essay that I'm guessing wouldn't be accepted as a "guest column." Nearly posted on Facebook, and like the jonaPancake guy here, had second thoughts after I read it over. Still pondering it... Regardless, thanks for all the fish!
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don't you mean ONE fish, singular, gratefaldean? there's enough for 5000 there, surely?........!!!get a loaf of bread off a boy while you're at it! by the way, a spanking new series on the BBC of Douglas Adams' Dirk Gently detective is starting soon. Stephen Mangan is a great actor (all too sadly under-written for since the glorious and must-see Green Wing). and by the way, here would be the perfect place for that letter!! come come deano old bean, reveal all! sounds mighty intriguing to these ears. the words "government sponsored prayer" should NEVER be used in that formation and order, and, if they ever are, a shudder should rattle the spine like an ill-advised stage dive at Black Flag concert. or a Suicidal Tendencies soirée. you're quite right that this topic is "underutilized"; no other fucker seems to post much here, so hijack like a Somali pirate, i say.
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Further thread hijacking-but that TOTALLY excites me! Loved Dirk Gently Holistic Detective sooooooooo much! Thanks for that important info, and will be watching for it
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But then again, maybe we did. Guilty as charged. As for a title, I actually liked "A closer look reveals the human race" because it keeps the Dead lyric topic naming thing going, but it is a bit homo sapiens-centric so I'm good with Brother Badger's suggestion as well. A safe place for us to discuss perspectives on life that aren't deity dependent. Thanks for the props to Mike Edwards as well. At first blush, I liked your title suggestion as well, but there can be no denying that TigerLilly's observation and concerns have merit. As for apologies for past acts of bad faith jonapi, I'm not quite sure I see what the point is. No matter what Mr. Orwell might have suspected, you can't change the past, you can only change the future. I would only hope that those guilty would henceforth moderate their behavior and public posture to at least acknowledge that they and their adherents represent merely one of myriad possible perspectives and proceed accordingly. How is it that they put that thought? Oh yeah. Go, and sin no more.
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> Imagining there's no heaven means that we accept the concept that there IS one Not necessarily, it's easy to imagine a scenario in which heaven was imagined in the first place, but I can see how some people might read the line that way, TigerLilly. I'm not hung up on the name though; I'm a writer, which means I usually get things wrong before I get them right. Plus, it's hard not to like a Douglas Adams line, and especially an inclusive one like Life, the Universe and Everything.
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i'm beginning to doubt my own british humour now! (or else i'm tired, having just learnt of a sad death in the extended family, and have become a victim of my own dry approach to comedy!).i'm not sure what you meant by "past acts of bad faith..." etc., Mr. Pid; were you talking about my comments to CB about "upsetting people"? if so, i was pulling his english leg a little and joking with him!! or am i missing something else? that 5000 thing was because gratefaldean signed off with "thanks for all the fish" so i took a cheap shot and made fun of the feeding of the masses with one fish and a loaf of bread. all of my recent posts have been tongue in cheek and an excuse to be a tad cheeky; a pesky little scamp, nothing more. please don't take anything i say too seriously. i'm usually guilty of being too obtuse; i'm just being a wee prick that's all!! and definitely (or he better be!!), the badger is reveling in maintaining a "bland" stance as a facetious nod to my poor grammar (or grandad!!) in a post i made to his earlier reply!! i got confused and made some schoolboy punctuation-al errors that he's intent on highlighting in a most uncharitable fashion ha ha ha ha ha!!!!!!! good on 'im!!! that's what i'd do too ha ha!!!
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where the huskies go and don't you eat that yellowcake. The apology reference was (surprisingly on topic!) regarding your apparent and Mr. Hitchen's clear request that the Roman Catholic Church should set about apologizing everywhere to everyone about everything that they'd gotten wrong all these centuries. Really, what exactly is the point of that? Sorry, but that's baggage that they can't have some airline conveniently lose in transit in some far-flung corner of the world. It seems to me that it would be in their best interests to just stop collecting more items from that particular line of cheap Vuitton luggage. Perhaps I'm also guilty of being somewhat obtuse in my references as well, so continuing with that notion, since you raised the spectre of self-flagellation, I like the approach taken by the monks in The Grail. "Blow to the head or boot in the groin? I'll take the blow to the head, please."
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Is about 1100 words at this point. And most of it is just a schoolboy memory of mine. It may see the light of day, but I need to let it ferment a bit, I think, let it stew while I forget about it and then come back to it with fresh eyes. And read what says -- right now I'm reading what I THINK that I wrote, which I often find is not always the same as what I really did write. And the fish line cracked me up...I was still hanging in Douglas Adams-land, and you, Nakanopi, were actually on-topic.
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I was going to make a suggestion that everyone should have a big group hug and a nice cup of tea, but then I decided not to as it might be taken wrongly as a case of the bland leading the partially slighted. By the way, both Douglas Adams and Christopher Hitchens have published instructions for making a perfect cup of tea.
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you really are sulking aren't you, CB?!!!!! Lama-badgo?...... and love the fact that Mary started a new topic and no one has posted there yet for 2 days!! good work everyone!!
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yes, it was a beautiful blue sky day; the hint of hay in the air across the fields, sweet in the nose. spring entering the soul and radiating warmth. basking more appropriate than questioning, no? we must all think alike after all.....
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investigation into the human condition.connection to suffering. introspection and inward peace. science may learn, interact, join and explore.
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moving, thought provoking film featuring the fantastic Anthony Scher, Eddie Marsan and others. in Auschitz, jewish prisoners put God on trial in absentia for abandoning the Jewish people. the question is if God has broken his covenant with the Jeweish people by allowing the Nazis to commit genocide.
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...the so-called "Deadheads for Obama" have zero criticism of their hero for sending drones to Pakistan to kill "brown skin people" when they were so anxious to attack W, and me for supporting him on the old DNC MB, for his war against Islamofascists... J/K, we all know the answer to that question now don't we?
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let's not bother then, eh?!!!!
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see what I said to Pid in the "what would be the answer" thread. :)
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Please confine your trolling to the relevant topics. This is not one of them. Current events might be. Any further such posts here will be deleted.
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Testing, testing, this is just a test. The last post made on this forum on July 4, 2007?Or, am I being foolish on April Fool's? Post #1 on April 1st...Hmm.
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Just wanted to say thank you. I grew a lot from being here. I'm truly sorry for the bad things I've said in the past, but I hope I made people smle too. You sure made me laugh, thank you. So may God bless Bobby, Phil, Mickey, and Bill and all of you with love and peace. - trailbird brian
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I believe in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. I try very hard not to judge others and respect all persons beliefs. That's all, thank you very much Marye and deadnet for the opportunity to express that belief. ...when we make it to the Promised Laaanddd...
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Although Buddhist cultures all over the world celebrate the historical Buddha's milestones in different ways, it is the Tibetans who roll his birth, death and enlightenment into four weeks of celebration in a multifaceted event. On this day the merit from particularly moral acts supposedly increases by a factor of ten million. If you are a believer, as I am, then just tossing a beggar sitting on a city street corner a dollar bill could result in your future rebirth into a particularly wealthy family who would endow you with wealth worth more than $10 million dollars. But, of course, as with most religions, getting rich is not the point. Rather, remembering the historical figure who created massive amounts of good will and good, charitable acts is the real point. As is often said, accomplishing the good of others is providing provision for one's own future life. Shakyamuni Buddha was born over 2500 years ago in Lumbini, Nepal. He grew up a prince in a royal family who married and had a family. Becoming dissatisfied with every material thing and seeing sickness,old age and death convinced him to embark on a spiritual journey that eventually brought him to sit under the Bodhi Tree, unmoving, for seven years by the river Narayan in Bodh Gaya, India until he saw the morning star and became enlightened. He died not far away (relatively) in Kushinigar, India at the age of 82. His last words were: "All component things in the world are changeable. They are not lasting. Work hard to gain your own salvation." Unlike many other religious figures who proclaimed themselves Gods or Sons of God, Shakamuni Buddha simply said for those who were curious it would be best to test his theories and if they worked perhaps they could be put into practice.
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I'm just starting to poke around this forum, not sure how active anyone still is
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Through an unlikely series of events, my sister had a handful of Sunday night tickets to distribute on very short notice. She was pleased to discover that Deadheads really are everywhere. Not knowing how people would respond, she began asking various contacts about their possible interest in tickets, and was surprised at those who immediately replied, "Yes, I will meet you any place at any hour to receive tickets". No one here would be surprised that she would find this response, but she did not who in her range of acquaintances would be those folks. Only on a hunch did she contact her former downstairs neighbor, a person she thought she knew well after many years sharing a building. Or the fellow doing work on her house. Or the friend of our brother, who only found out that our brother was going to the show when did not show up to play guitar with him at church on Sunday morning. Some inquiries and quick calls by the guitar player, just hours before the show, ended up with him learning that, miracle of miracles, Yes, there was one more ticket available. This gets me to thinking that every town in America ought to have an event when Deadheads can come out and get acquainted. I expect that there will be many more Dead nights at pubs and such, but we surely need a way to find each other.
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I love the steal your face with the cross! I am a Catholic deadhead, which seems to stump everyone i know... everyone who isn't a deadhead, that is... i think most people who listen to the music realize that the notes played, pointed onward and outward... towards a bit of the transcendent. Anyways... it's good to see evidence that i'm not alone in loving God and loving the music of the dead:) Seeing the last show in Chicago a few weeks ago brought be back home. Peace and love to you all.