Grateful Dead

here we are again on a Sunday night-anyone playing any music? Sunday night with the GD was a religious experience...........it's been interesting reading what yall have said in the previous week. Gotta get some zzzzzzzz's-we're hitting the road soon.......love ya, Gypsy Cowgirl

I vividly remember one really ( i don't know how to term it (religious?) intense experience I had at the Greek Theatre when the Dead were playing Queen Jane (7/15/88). It was my first Greek show. But, anyway, I always thought that the band was just relaying a message from a higher power, and it's not like they knew it either. It just happened naturally. Right down to Hunter's lyrics...(and Barlow's). The Grateful Dead to me is bigger than the sum of its parts. Their job was to spread some sort of message that is UNIVERSAL. Perhaps that's' why they lasted much longer than their contemporaries? At the same time they were still never quite like any other musical ensemble. When I read Weir's quote about "Misfit Power," I often wonder, was all this chosen ahead of time? Are we puppets and everything is already planned out? I have a million questions and thoughts, but not too many opinions on it. I do know that no other band gave me that feeling that there was a higher power somewhere nearby. One of spirituality, one of more than just a band. Then you've got the name! That in itself is a great topic of discussion, and what the reverse of it means. Don't get me started. If you know me already, It will take you 10 minutes to read what I write. So, for now...... On a side note. I listen to a lot of other music too, and reading Tiger Lily's quote about Jesus, Buddha, makes me think of the band XTC, and one of their songs, "Merely a Man." I believe they had the right idea. Religion is uch a broad topic, when we're all, after all, only human. Here are the lyrics, it's a great song, and an awesome album (Oranges & Lemons..1989). Higher! I'm a king, yes, I'm a head of state. But I'm the kitchen boy who'll wash your dirty plate. I had no message and the message was, we're all Jesus, Buddha, and the Wizard of Oz! I'm merely a man and I bring nothing but love for you. I'm merely a man and I want nothing that you can't do! And you know it's true. That with logic and love we'll be lifting humanity higher! Higher! I'm all religious figures rolled into one, Gaddafy Duck propelled from Jimmy Swaggart's tommy gun. Don't promise rainbows with some golden pot, In fact what I can offer I know you've already got! I'm merely a man and I bring nothing but love for you. I'm merely a man and I want nothing that you can't do? And you know it's true. That with logic and love we'll have power enough to raise consciousness up and for lifting humanity higher! Higher! And you know it's true. We should chase superstition and fear from our hearts if we're going to survive and take levels of sanity higher! Kick it up... Higher! I'm merely a man and I bring nothing but love for you. I'm merely a man and I want nothing that you can't do! And you know it's true. That with logic and love we'll have power enough to raise consciousness up and for lifting humanity higher ~Tom ( "takes the dark out of the nighttime, paints the daytime black")

Was not my quote, was BobbaLee's-but liked it very much!!! Am gonna have to dig out my old XTC tapes again (yes are that old) as those lyrics you wrote are lovely!********************************** Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone, you will still exist, but you have ceased to live. Samuel Clemens

Search these words on the internet or Wikipedia:Gnostic, Essenes and Nazarene (sect) for more information on the historical nature of Christianity and Jesus. Religion: I'd say I was Gnostic but I reject dualism as a mirage caused by undeveloped senses, including a sense of "time" which makes up part of what is known as "the human condition". The most important conflict in early Christianity was both the notion that Jesus was divine and that God was a perfect being. I find those aspects of debate worth digging into with both hands, considering how much western religion relies on those notions. I can't say that I believe anything "is" or "isn't" because if you observe anything long enough, both seem possible... sometimes. Essentially, I think that all organized religion is now defunct in function, except for the literary and artistic value (which have HUGE importance to teaching children the fundamentals of EVERYTHING) due to advances in "science" (the cultivation of undeveloped "senses"), which is really not any different than religion, ultimately. Both observe the universe and "reality" in at least 3 dimensions, then try to draw conclusions about the nature of life, including the purpose, which imposes implications regarding a hidden "creator" (beginning) and it's nature in relation to our own happiness/sadness/pain/pleasure/reward/punishment/hate/love and most importantly our mortality (ending). I won't dive into behavior modification, at this time for sake of some brevity. Higgs Field: In October of this year, I believe scientists will prove what I myself have seen with my own "eyes" under the influence of psychedelic drugs... The Higgs Field. The evaporating remnants of the Higgs boson, aka "The God Particle" (when it is finally viewed) will explain much of what Nikola Tesla referred to as "The Unified Field Theory", which he claimed to have solved before his "death" (Einstein called it "The Theory of Everything" which was his life's biggest failure). The implications of this simple and tiny data will be so overwhelming, we may not grasp the basic meaning in our lifetime, which is tragic imo, in part because of superstitious notions guarded by organized religion and used to control this realm and reality to it's own purpose (see also, "Galileo Galilei"). That said, my idea is that the BEH Mechanism in place that makes up our universe will continue to recycle consciousness itself until the true nature of life is revealed, without regard to "time". In summary, we will "see" with the Higgs boson, that our reality is merely a facsimile of another reality, that which has come to be known as "Heaven". "Hell" is simply the absence of the knowledge of that reality. Just my opinion, of course. "The need for mystery is greater than the need for an answer." - Ken Kesey

Mr. Scientific, shouldn't be suprised that such a post came from you ;-) but your Higgs Field explanation (which I have never heard of, so again thanks again for bringing it up) comes the closest to being an explanation of what have thought about spirituality. Will have to read more about it. Again is more "scientific" explanation than had ever come up with, any time I had tried to explain what I felt was just that-instinct, thoughts and feelings. Am still not sure whether is the same thing as what bugs me about religion, putting names, and explanations on forces that are bigger than we are, and also personally not necessary to "understand" but just go with em-GO WITH THE FLOW, BUT am absolutely definately gonna have to look for more to read about Higgs Field theory. This thread is developing in such a fascinating way. Incredible! Look forward to every new post here! ********************************** Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone, you will still exist, but you have ceased to live. Samuel Clemens

Hey Tiger Lilly-I like your posts-"go with the flow" definitely. As far as the religion thing, I just don't like labels, so if I have to label myself just "Human", so be it..........will be traveling next Sunday, so thought I'd post something now......maybe I'll go pray naked now (my ex used to tell the Jehvah's Witnesses that when they came to our door-needless to say, they'd never come back) This was when we lived way up on a mountain top in Humboldt Co. 1973-1974.....Amazing Grace........"& I bid you goodnight, goodnight, goodnight"............love yall, Gypsy Cowgirlps-the 1 time my adult son told me that I had left "a hole in his religious upbringing" Just about floored me to which I replied "WELL, excuuuse me for not having religion shoved down your throat, like your grandpa did- You're free to go out & find your own" He still doesn't go to church- I'll have to tell him about the Higgs Field, though........Happy Trails.......

Oops- Type "O" meant Jehovah's........ok, onward to naked praying......Happy Trails, GC

What an interesting idea W.W.! Surely would be closer to our natural state, eh? Perhaps should try it. Or perhaps I shouldn't have responded, before this discussion gets WAAAY out of hand after had been going so well-couldn't resist though ;-)********************************** Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone, you will still exist, but you have ceased to live. Samuel Clemens

1) I'm going to take up naked praying... if that doesn't summon a response from God, nothing will. Perhaps someone could begin building an "Ark" now?2) In my last post, the word "enlightenment" can be interchanged with "knowledge"; 3) Christianity (Catholic) is my personal starting point (spiritually) and many, many folks associated with that religion fed my mind with vast information, both religious and scientific, so my remarks about religion being defunct was not a total dismissal of the value it had in my personal life. I'm not anti religion in total but I don't like the direction I see being taken, personally, at this time; 4) Thanks for reading my post, TL & WW! We live in VERY EXCITING "times", indeed. Cazart! "The need for mystery is greater than the need for an answer." - Ken Kesey

I'm not one of those folks who thinks the world was created a few thousand years ago. I think a God who has the patience to wait a few billion years for us, love's us a lot more than one who had to do it in six days. Thank you Lord.

really nice thoughts on this page. my view on reality is very mathematical. Any thing that ever reaches zero always was zero, with no real existence. And anything that is always present, no gaps, I call that real. And as i searched about and saw in 100 years, all that is termed mortal about me will be no more operational.So I looked for what i still had when all that could be lost was gone. And I found, thought. Thought. Still there. You could say eternally. And then, like a supernova, I saw reality, Intelligence itself. And our selves as expressions of this, in the nature of idea only, no mortal anything. This intelligence, i call God, and intelligence naturally expresses itself as idea, which is how i see us. Individual expressions of a perfect mind. When I realized all this it was just a different perspective than I had had before, but it had a dramatic effect on my day to day life. I mean, positive.Cause I see us all as perfect ideas now, free of all the mortal concern, which one day will swirl and rise and go puff, zip, into zero-ness. Proving it was never here at all. It just blocked us for a time from seeing us we always are, , a free idea I don't think this viewpoint is new at all, bit it sure brought lots o' light into my life! andy

OY! TL & GDTUD-didn't mean to get anything out of hand here! For your info, my ex, (who has been gone to the "great hunting grounds" 30 years this year) & would tell the Jehovah's Witnesses about his naked praying was raised Catholic. (although he was half Native American) He was the ultimate DH back then... Loved 'em til the day he died......& NOW we have "happy trails" to talk to also-love what he or she says.........once again....."& I bid you goodnight, goodnight, goodnight" Spiritual song or religious? "Did it matter, does it now?" St Stephen-could be another spiritual or religious song I guess-taught it to my kids when they were very young.....I'll have to tell my oldest son about his father's naked praying, though-think it's slipped my mind......

Swiming naked in a mountain lake is my kind of praying and Dark Star is my kind of hymn, Zippy is my kind of preacher and nature is my father and mother and the holy spirit is art and the son is the peace and love that comes through this and happy trails are grate but sometimes there are rattlesnakes on them and then you may just bump into a friend there that you haven't seen in a long time because you both love the same wilderness. If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is, infinite. William Blake

Alright! Hal R-sounds good to me-I also liked "Mr. Natural" created by Robert Crumb, the cartoonist.......Sounds very Native American, which their ancestral religion has always been interesting to me & made way more sense than any other organized religion. Besides which being the best envionmentalist........."gotta go now".....ps-The Ice Cream Kid-one of my all time faves! Gypsy Cowgirl

The intelligence to me is not God. If there was a God that created life on earth, who created God? Reality is not nothing, but rather, another thought or an idea. It just takes a pair of open eyes and an open heart to see this reality, and you portrayed that very well. Everything is interconnected and if we have an open mind and an open heart we are allowing ourselves to have a religious experience no matter where we are. Religion is just a belief, and this belief, in my opinion, is centered around the ideas that we have and the emotion that embraces a moment in time when we feel invincible. ~littlebri

we are allowing oursevles to have a religious experience no matter where we are". I am soooo digging that, littlebri. Your who created God question is reminding me of the chicken and the egg question quite alot. You have said in a few short sentences, a very concise summing up of vague thought have had inside for years. And agree with you that intelligence is less "God" and perhaps even quite the opposite of what you said about religion being when we feel invincible (brilliantly said, btw). Kinda suspect that the word God is a belief for when we do NOT feel invincible, but kinda small and helpless. But have to think about it more, again just a first thing in the morning-brain half awake gut-inspired response. ********************************** Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone, you will still exist, but you have ceased to live. Samuel Clemens

I've been reading the Gospels for 15 years and I'm quite comfortable with whatever there is within the 4 accepted ones. If they all said exactly the same thing I would "not" believe them. The teachings of Jesus are close enough considering how long they were written after he died for us. The real discrepancies only occur when the gnostic gospels come into the picture. So don't tell me I need to accept whatever bullshit comes along just because it had Jesus name in it. Love ya.

You might not believe in GodBut that makes you the one that's odd It's not uncommon, in your youth To search for answers and for Truth My friend before you were born We'd been to Dead shows, had hearts torn And we've all searched to find a way To try and make it, one more day Unless you die early, you'll find pain That turns the sunshine all to rain Will you deny, or will you pray When death comes and takes it all away So if you ever can believe There's more to life than we can see I hope you'll get down on your knees And thank the one who sets you free

around the valley of the scum here, say" Imagine No Religion"!............ seems i've heard that before somewhere! but hey, can't we all just get along? oh yeah, thats what religion is about........... isn't it? peace4all, imagine!

hey, little bri, thanks for your thoughtful comments on my post. It always gives us a chance to be more clear, when someone actually listens to us and engages our thought. You said: [ The intelligence to me is not God. If there was a God that created life on earth, who created God? ] Yeah. Maybe I can be more clear. To me God is just the word "good" in German. It's just another word like, spirit or mind, to refer to reality. I reject all other meanings for myself. So, i could of said, "that intelligence, i call it 'good', And noone else has to agree with me, that's just what i call it. And for me, Intelligence or "good", definitely didn't create life on earth, cause that would mean he/she created something finite and mortal, and that would just wreck everything. For me, God didn't make us as mortals, he/she made us as immortals. It's us who agree to see ourselves as mortals, which i definitely don't recommend. So, for me, there is just one Truth, with lots of words to refer to it, the most charged being God. But it's just a word that means good, to indicate that this intelligence is 100% good. So, then, what do we do with all this sense information indicating otherwise. I treat all that as delusion, hallucination. To me, any sense that Life (eternal, infinite, immortal) could be in ,or inhabit a body (mortal, finite), is impossible. But liitle bri, i don't mean you or anyone else has to agree with me. i love where you're at in your thought, and how you listened and responded. In my thought, the light is ALWAYS shining, and God will never be on my side or anyone's side, we have to be on God's side, or on the side of good. with all respect for your views- andy

Nobody asked you to accept anything. You are welcome to believe and accept what you chose to, that has been the main gist of this thread so far lately. We are just discussing here. BUT calling other peoples' thoughts and writings "bullshit" because they are different, is uncool. The Gnostic Gospels exist, and actually pre-date what are now accepted by the church as the "true" gospels. Could argue that the 4 gospels coincide due to collaboration, and time going by before they were written. Just because something is widely "accepted" does not necessarily make it true. Am sure that you accept that the world is round, which was thought to be "bullshit" at one point in time. And am not arguing with you here because I necessarily believe in the Gnostic or ANY gospels, for that matter, but because you used to word "bullshit" about the collection. Is one of the dangers of religion that bugs me-aggressive reactions to thoughts, ideas and writings that are not widely-accepted ********************************** Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone, you will still exist, but you have ceased to live. Samuel Clemens

couldn't have said it better, myself. "The need for mystery is greater than the need for an answer." - Ken Kesey

well said and accepted TigerLilly , if we all think the way you do we ´´ll be living in much more peace and secure , RESPECT my dear .............................................................AS LONG AS YOU ARE STANDING STRONG NOTHING IS GONNA BE WRONG

I think this would be a great website if this forum were not even here. I think a lot of people have strong convictions about their beliefs and feelings are bound to get hurt. And then they may say things they sometimes regret. Sorry about the b.s. comment Tiger Lily. Little Bri, I was thinking that may try to get us riled up. You are obviously a smart young woman I hope all your dreams come true. I think I better take a vacation. Best wishes to all of you.

Oh Yeh-TC-John Lennon said it the best, didn't he???? & here we are again on a Sunday night..........How'd the naked praying go this week=Tiger Lily & GDTUD? anyone get closer to God? guess we'll all find out someday.......Gypsy Cowgirlpeace & love

Please don't take a vacation. A very cool and kind thing to do-what you just wrote. Apology accepted, and one for you as well. Was pissed because we had done so well lately with reading and discussing in an open and accepting way. Was not angry about your views, but the word you chose. Please understand that.Let the music play, wash the bad vibe away. and I hope you decide to stay here with us. Peace! ********************************** Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone, you will still exist, but you have ceased to live.. Samuel Clemens

if you believe in your god and your god gave you all your senses and feeling and the POWER of thought then don't vaca because of the posts in this forum. if feeling weren't suppose to get hurt god wouldn't have given them to you and everyones opinion is most welcome to hear, we all must be kind to each other and accept other as we would have them accept ourselves. i kinda see the bible and the gospels as songs... you got to read between the lines ... it's just a way!! and there are many ways... hey would you like some of my purple berries : )peace2Ulove 4all

Sunshine people with sunshine minds.peace,pk

Yeah, happy trails, we need rowers not bailers! The best part of my faith of origin is the concept of Grace, nothing compares, as far as I've seen in mystical belief systems. I'm certainly a walking, breathing example of the concept. May you all bask in the warmth and love of It's Light. "The need for mystery is greater than the need for an answer." - Ken Kesey

Even if you have never heard of the Urantia Book, you are already familiar with some of its content and ideas since Jerry was kind enough to include a little something in almost every song. He was a student of the book after being introduced to it by Martin Fierro. Do not worry that it is a cult, religion, or money making scheme: it is only a book. It has information you never knew and is written so as to leave no doubt that it is and was beyond human capabilities to author. If you go to urantia.org you can get an overview from the Urantia Foundation who originally published the book in 1955. They are a bunch of old fogies, though, and not too progressive. There are a few cult-like followings of the book, but you know better than that. It's a book written for the individual to read and apply, or live, as each individual sees fit. Have fun, because once you start with it, you'll never set it down. You'll also come to a new understanding of certain lyrics, such as, "I will survive." In friendship, The Doctor

I got this document from a deadhead sister years ago. It weaves the Bible in with Grateful Dead, Garcia, Hunter, Weir, and Barlow lyrics. I thought it was pretty cool so I posted it on my website if you wanna check it out. Here's the link: http://greateststoryevertold.org/grateful_dead.html Blessings, Ben Jesus Loves You The Best! greateststoryevertold.org

how are you 2 & are praying naked this Sunday night????? love ya, Gypsy Cowgirl

Gypsy Cowgirl, your "Naked Praying" is working better than anything I've ever tried before! I do it everyday, now. "The task is, not so much to see what no one has yet seen; but to think what nobody has yet thought, about that which everybody sees. ." - Erwin Schrödinger

You can write us an essay about how Naked Praying has changed your life GRTUD. Will make an attempt to do the same. Hey Rider, what do you think about adding Naked Prayer to our DOWN WITH SHOES campaign? DOWN WITH SHOES and UP WITH PRAYING NAKED. Haven't mananaged yet to be as pious about it as GRTUD, but do shoot for once or twice a week. ********************************** Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone, you will still exist, but you have ceased to live. Samuel Clemens

Amen TL & GRTUD! glad it's helping......I'll have to tell my son (soon to be 38) what his father started from beyond the grave.......I think he really did pray naked way back when (prior to 1974).....maybe advanced in his thinking? xoxoxo Gypsy Cowgirl

dunno 'bout prayin' nekkid, i 'spose most people that believe in prayer do so when they feel the need, some people pray on a regular basis, some folks attend services everyday.i have been going to mass every weekday morning since i was laid off over a year ago and i kno it keeps me from getting scared. they say " the lord will provide", they say " ya gotta have faith" and that's what i've been trying ta do. somehow every month i have been able to get together enough money to make it thru to the next. it's been hard on my kid....he doesnt say much about it 'cuz he knows how stressed out i am, but i can see the affect it has on him, tho he tries not to show it. being a teenager he just lashes out. i keep lookin' and lookin' and filling out applications and requesting interviews and no luck. this week the depression has been so bad that i don't even feel like i belong HERE and this has been my OTHER escape, just like the shows used to be. my favorite sticker said somethin' like " a break from whoever you are", like i could be around other deadheads and feel welcome and not have to worry about the outside "normal" real world, but now we are so divided over this damn election and the fundraising show that i cant even feel comfortable in the forums, tho i kno it's probably just my perception (or not). friends in the chat room tell me it's ok, they like me, i'm welcome as everyone is, but i FEEL like i'm INTRUDING each time i log in. i havent even listened to any music in months cuz it just makes me cry so my other option has been prayer and church. i go in the door scared and come back out reminding my self that "i gotta have faith" and it seems to have worked....like the dead used to do for me. i am deeply sorry if this particular forum is the wrong place for me to whine and i hope this won't offend anyone here....you have all been WONDERFUL and HELPFUL and KIND and THOUGHTFUL. and meebe thats the other thing that faith brings me ...hoping that i can still come here and.....forget....if only for a few minutes........thanx for listening....think i'll have a couple beers and some " medication (haha)" and and thro in a boot and see if it'll work...mebbe try to chat.....thank you all for putting up with a foolish old sailor.

wow, johnman, i was on my way out the doorwhen i read your post, and just had to log in and say, DUDE! whats up! I judge people by their hearts, and by my assessment, you doin' fine! Who's out there judging you by any other yardstick? sheee-it. who cares anyway? If your heart is right, everything else is fixable. got your sense of humor? don' t lose that, right? i think you're in the right place here, just my 2 c's. You gotta start with what you can do today. Do that, and don't beat yourself up. Tomorrow, do what you can do tomorrow. You're giving off so much light, dude, don't feel selfish to let some shine on you. love you like a brother, johnman-----andy ps - not feeling like you belong turns out to be a GOOD thing, dude.

don't know exactly what to say, as am in a very bad way myself right this second. But have valued our friendship in the chatroom very very much, and your post makes me sadder. Your persistance about work WILL pay off, and you belong wherever you wanna be. Am glad you still have your faith in your church, and that constructive source of strength-I just hope you can get your faith back that some of us here care alot about you.********************************** Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone, you will still exist, but you have ceased to live. Samuel Clemens

Hey Johnman, I prayed for you this morning, that our God of all Peace would comfort you and open your eyes and heart to how much He loves you. You are on the right track seeking Him. Check out these words of Jesus in the book of Matthew chapter 6! 25 "So I tell you, don't worry about everyday life-whether you have enough food, drink, and clothes. Doesn't life consist of more than food and clothing? 26 Look at the birds. They don't need to plant or harvest or put food in barns because your heavenly Father feeds them. And you are far more valuable to him than they are. 27 Can all your worries add a single moment to your life? Of course not. 28 "And why worry about your clothes? Look at the lilies and how they grow. They don't work or make their clothing, 29 yet Solomon in all his glory was not dressed as beautifully as they are. 30 And if God cares so wonderfully for flowers that are here today and gone tomorrow, won't he more surely care for you? You have so little faith! 31 "So don't worry about having enough food or drink or clothing. 32 Why be like the pagans who are so deeply concerned about these things? Your heavenly Father already knows all your needs, 33 and he will give you all you need from day to day if you live for him and make the Kingdom of God your primary concern. 34 "So don't worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will bring its own worries. Today's trouble is enough for today. Blessings, Ben Jesus Loves You The Best! greateststoryevertold.org

thank you free, tiger, and ben for your kind inputs. its only myself that i'm having trouble with. i have faith that things will work out, just get scared sometimes as i said every month things seem to fall in to place as soon as i leave it in the lord's hands...ya kno...ya cant do what ya cant do.............they say god never gives ya more than you can handle..........sometimes i wish he didnt trust me so much.....................thanx!!

Johnman-you're not whining, just telling us your feelings, your heart & soul. Nothing wrong with that. Maybe you can get veteran benefits to help out in the meantime? Saw Ruby, but the music was too loud to tell her you wished her well. I'll try & pass on a message to her. Phil ended his show tonight with an amazing " & I bid you goodnight, goodnight, goodnight".....very gospel.......everyone loved it......Sunday night again. Back to naked praying-it's getting to be a tradition around this household. Even my next door neighbor liked the idea ......xoxox Gypsy Cowgirl

"And now, people.....and now, people...when I woke up this morning, I heard a disturbing sound. I said, when I woke up this morning I heard a disturbing sound. I heard the sound in my car. What I heard was the jingle-jangle of a thousand lost souls. And I'm talking about the soul of mortal men and women, departed from this life. Wait a minute, those lost, anguished souls roamin' unseen over the earth, seekin' the divine light, they'll not find. Because it's too late... too late yeah, too late for them to ever see again, the light they once chose not to follow! Alright, alright, don't be lost when the time comes. For the day of the Lord cometh, as a thief in the night. Amen. DO YOU SEE THE LIGHT?" -- The Reverend Cleophus James love and peace.

thanx gypsy! really appreciate your thoughtful words of encouragement! cc thanx for bringing a smile to my face, that's one of the best scenes in the film!

& I say AMEN! Good going CC-you always find the best!!! God rest his soul ..... xoxo Gypsy Cowgirl

First of all thanks for letting us know how you are feeling..not an easy thing to do. Communicating in this online world is pretty weird and I think we are all slowly getting used to it. Larking around in the chatroom or sounding off on the forums is easy enough, but dealing with personal and serious matters is much harder. If you are not in the same physical space there is so much you miss in terms of feedback, interaction, body language, tone of voice etc. Emoticons cannot deal with all that; and if you are feeling low at the time, an innocent word, a clumsy expression, a conversation you can’t break into or the lack of response to a comment or post can spin out into a feeling of alienation. You are not the only one who feels like sometimes that I assure you. Please don’t ever feel you don’t belong here. Over a year ago a guy calling himself Sixstringsmoreorlesh disappeared from here, but before he did and in the middle of a big online bust up over something he posted that ‘if you have to take it personally refuse to take it seriously; if you have to take it seriously refuse to take it personally’. I find that works pretty well in the online world (not so sure about life in general ..). Anyway I know this does not help with your immediate problems. I am not really the praying kind (clothed or naked),but I really feel for you and wish you only the best in your struggles. And please stick around Johnman; for fun and games, for serious stuff and to know that there’s many folks out here wishing you well.

friend badger,...... boy ...i make it sound like sumpin outa redwall.....anyway thanx for your concern...and again i'm feelin' it's not so much not feelin' i can belong here (hell this is home for all of "jerry's lost kids" ek ek ek!) i'm going thru a period where i feel i don't belong anywhere. circumstances have kind of overwhelmed me to the point where i've been pushing it all away and it just happened to bubble back out while i was here...............and now at the risk of sounding presumptous, i think my problems have taken enuf of this space so i feel i should ask everyone to just pm me if they wish and leave this space for more important concerns...i'm only johnman....just alittle piece of the bigger puzzle (and i may be the fat one that doesn't fit and got stuck in the wrong box, heehee, then again mebbe this is a big box of "misfits" so to speak) you all belong in the awards forum because of your kindness and caring!!

We are all misfits on this bus and that fits just right. If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is, infinite. William Blake

oh marye, ya snuck in while i was composing. this last post...............naw....i 'm not going anywhere........just stepping back and looking at myself to see wherein the problem lies.....so'i'll be inand out,,,,its cool, tho i think i can put part of the blame on the divisivness of this ...damn......election.