• August 22, 2007
    https://www.dead.net/features/tapers-section/august-27-september-2-2007
    August 27 - September 2, 2007

    I undertook the Taper's Section last November with a pretty simple vision: to have fun providing folks a regular opportunity to hear vault material that kept their interest in Grateful Dead music fresh.

    Recently, I and others that work on dead.net became aware that certain fans had been regularly downloading the tracks offered in the Taper Section. From the very beginning, this program has always been intended to be a "for streaming only" service. Downloading was never announced, described or promoted in any manner. The situation that developed over the past months is very different than my original plan.

    Where we’re at today requires us to step back, gather some information, do some thinking and get back to you. In the meantime, we ask that you all realize that dead.net's and GDP's commitment to the Dead Head community is unchanged. We’re very excited to be hard at work with Rhino on a number of very cool releases and programs that you’ll be hearing about soon. Please bear with us until then.

    See you next week,
    David

    This week, we’re going to explore some cool moments from the Family Dog in 1969, as well as some great material from 1980 and a taste of 1972.

    Although most shows in the Bay Area in the late 1960s were BGP-produced concerts, there was a very hip alternative promoter, namely Chet Helms and his Family Dog at the Great Highway. At the end of the summer of ’69 (no Bryan Adams jokes, please), the Grateful Dead played a few shows at Chet’s cool venue, and from those shows we have some interesting material. From 8/29/69, we have a nice Easy Wind, Me and My Uncle>High Time, as well as the show-closing Lovelight, and from the next night, 8/30/69, we have a very good Morning Dew from early in the show. Be sure to check back next week for another rare track from the Family Dog in 1969.

    One thing we always get excited about is a great tour with consistently great performances, with highlights too numerous to list. The mid-August to early-September 1980 tour is one such stretch of shows, and we have a few examples of great material from this tour this week. Unfortunately, two of the best shows from the tour are not in the vault (9/6 at Lewiston and 9/2/80 at Rochester), but what does live in the vault is exceptional. From 8/27/80 at Pine Knob in Michigan, the second set opening trio of China Cat Sunflower>I Know You Rider>C.C. Rider (or China>Rider>Rider, if you will) is as high energy as they come. From three nights later in Philadelphia we have the ending sequence of the show on 8/30/80, featuring Space>Not Fade Away>Black Peter>Sugar Magnolia, One More Saturday Night. A classic 1980 sequence if there ever was one. Unfortunately, the first set of this show is not in the vault. Finally from this tour, we have the show opener on 8/31/80 at the Capital Center in Landover, MD, with a rocking duo of Alabama Getaway>Promised Land. As the flipside to the Philly show above, the second set from this Cap Center show is not in the vault.

    Lastly this week, we have a couple of tracks from the first night of the Europe 72 tour, the first two songs played on the tour, in fact. Both of these songs from 4/7/72 in London have a little extra something, as the band was clearly happy to be playing in Europe, a feeling that would evidently continue through the final show on 5/26/72 in London. Oh, yes, the songs: Greatest Story Ever Told and Sugaree. Enjoy.

    Be sure to check back in next week when we’ll have some music from 1969, 1972, 1973 and 1985. It’s going to be a busy week. Feel free to write anytime with questions or comments.

    David Lemieux
    vault [at] dead.net

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I undertook the Taper's Section last November with a pretty simple vision: to have fun providing folks a regular opportunity to hear vault material that kept their interest in Grateful Dead music fresh.

Recently, I and others that work on dead.net became aware that certain fans had been regularly downloading the tracks offered in the Taper Section. From the very beginning, this program has always been intended to be a "for streaming only" service. Downloading was never announced, described or promoted in any manner. The situation that developed over the past months is very different than my original plan.

Where we’re at today requires us to step back, gather some information, do some thinking and get back to you. In the meantime, we ask that you all realize that dead.net's and GDP's commitment to the Dead Head community is unchanged. We’re very excited to be hard at work with Rhino on a number of very cool releases and programs that you’ll be hearing about soon. Please bear with us until then.

See you next week,
David

This week, we’re going to explore some cool moments from the Family Dog in 1969, as well as some great material from 1980 and a taste of 1972.

Although most shows in the Bay Area in the late 1960s were BGP-produced concerts, there was a very hip alternative promoter, namely Chet Helms and his Family Dog at the Great Highway. At the end of the summer of ’69 (no Bryan Adams jokes, please), the Grateful Dead played a few shows at Chet’s cool venue, and from those shows we have some interesting material. From 8/29/69, we have a nice Easy Wind, Me and My Uncle>High Time, as well as the show-closing Lovelight, and from the next night, 8/30/69, we have a very good Morning Dew from early in the show. Be sure to check back next week for another rare track from the Family Dog in 1969.

One thing we always get excited about is a great tour with consistently great performances, with highlights too numerous to list. The mid-August to early-September 1980 tour is one such stretch of shows, and we have a few examples of great material from this tour this week. Unfortunately, two of the best shows from the tour are not in the vault (9/6 at Lewiston and 9/2/80 at Rochester), but what does live in the vault is exceptional. From 8/27/80 at Pine Knob in Michigan, the second set opening trio of China Cat Sunflower>I Know You Rider>C.C. Rider (or China>Rider>Rider, if you will) is as high energy as they come. From three nights later in Philadelphia we have the ending sequence of the show on 8/30/80, featuring Space>Not Fade Away>Black Peter>Sugar Magnolia, One More Saturday Night. A classic 1980 sequence if there ever was one. Unfortunately, the first set of this show is not in the vault. Finally from this tour, we have the show opener on 8/31/80 at the Capital Center in Landover, MD, with a rocking duo of Alabama Getaway>Promised Land. As the flipside to the Philly show above, the second set from this Cap Center show is not in the vault.

Lastly this week, we have a couple of tracks from the first night of the Europe 72 tour, the first two songs played on the tour, in fact. Both of these songs from 4/7/72 in London have a little extra something, as the band was clearly happy to be playing in Europe, a feeling that would evidently continue through the final show on 5/26/72 in London. Oh, yes, the songs: Greatest Story Ever Told and Sugaree. Enjoy.

Be sure to check back in next week when we’ll have some music from 1969, 1972, 1973 and 1985. It’s going to be a busy week. Feel free to write anytime with questions or comments.

David Lemieux
vault [at] dead.net

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Thanks David and keep up the good work Enjoy we will!
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I hope that Rhino has something big in store for us all!! Thanx Dave !!Rogue
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Recently, I and others that work on dead.net became aware that certain fans had been regularly downloading the tracks offered in the Taper Section. From the very beginning, this program has always been intended to be a "for streaming only" service. Downloading was never announced, described or promoted in any manner. The situation that developed over the past months is very different than my original plan. Seems odd that it would take y'all since NOVEMBER to realize that "Oh, these are mp3s. People are probably downloading them rather than streaming them."
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Sorry, but it took you, what, 8 months to realize that people, when presented with MP3 files, were downloading them? You can't stream MP3, at least not the way you were doing it. Some browsers would open them in another window, but others would download them directly when you clicked on them. David, you do great work with the content, but someone over there should understand how the tech works. This makes me think that you never really had this site tested, and that your web designers are, well, pretty clueless as to how content works on the Internet. Frankly, I don't buy this explanation. Anyone who works in web design (and your new site shows signs of being professinally designed) knows what happens when you have links to content like music.
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Seems a bit strange to me that mp3s would be put up "for streaming" when they're not a streaming form but a downloading form, and perfect for copying to a better and more convenient device than your PC for listening to. If the selections had all been wma files then the streaming-only intent might be more credible. Perhaps what it really is, is, that a full concert had finally been put up in patchwork form (Hanover, 5/5/78) and "certain fans" had taken the opportunity to piece it together for themselves.
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>>>>>From the very beginning, this program has always been intended to be a "for streaming only" service. Downloading was never announced, This sounds more like an excuse - of course it was for downloading, otherwise why have them in mp3 format. Streaming is completely useless - I cannot stream into the car. There is an easy way out for Rhino - admit you have got it wrong (yet again - you lost thousands of European customers with your ridiculous postage charges) and re-introduce the mp3 format, or alternatively charge a nominal $5 or $10 a week for the mp3 weekly downloads.
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If you find someone (indeed someone you care for) trapped in a deep hole and he asks for your help what do you doa) Give him a helping hand to get out b) Throw rocks at him till he provides a reason that you personally believe for why he is in the hole It matters not one bit whether this explanation is really really really true or whether it is a neat piece of face saving from a nice guy who just got chewed out for leaving the vault door open. Why don’t we all just assume the best and wait for a while to see if this cool new stuff really materialises.....
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It was bad enough that the "powers that be" decided to change the Tapers Section without explanation last week. But when David L cites as a reason an explanation which is so unconvincing you do have to wonder. I fully accept that we deadheads do not have a right to free MP3s [though what a great marketing ploy that could be if used properly - a brilliant way to convert the yet-to-be-converted] but, having established a pattern, someone, somewhere thought it would be a great idea to pull the plug with no warning, and no explanation. Now, a week later and after much wailing and gnashing of teeth by the deadhead community, we finally get an explanation, but one which doesn't hold water (often happens when you pull the plug). MP3s are the primary medium for downloading music - if the techies behind dead.net didn't know this they should be looking for a new job. But streaming media like WMA files can also be captured and converted to MP3/WAV with cheap and readily available software. The first rule of marketing is that it is easier to retain existing customers (which is basically what we deadheads are) than to generate new ones. From the correspondence I've seen, dead.net/Rhino or whoever are doing their utmost to alienate their existing customers without a strategy in place to generate replacements. Another marketing adage is that the best advert is word of mouth. Deadheads are a community like no other, and word spreads like wildfire amongst us. Use us, don't abuse us and we'll market your products for you. If dead.net is concerned about losing potential revenue there is a simple solution - and I'm not the first to suggest this - and that is to allow people to subscribe to the MP3 downloads for a reasonable sum - say $10-20 a month. The Tapers Section could also generate revenue by having adverts - and not necessarily just for GD products, though that would be the obvious starting point. Every business wants a regular revenue stream and a subscription service would be the ideal way to generate such a stream (think streaming revenue, not streaming audio). I am very grateful that David has taken over the job of custodian of the vault and has helped put into the community so much music of merit and I have wrttien to him on several occasions before now to thank him and to wonder at this great phenomenon which is a the symbiotic relationship of the Grateful Dead and deadheads. Please, please though, Rhino/GD do not allow a rift to open between us - you need us as much as we need you. You ain't going to generate a completely new fanbase at this stage of the band's history no matter what you do - you're largely stuck with what you've got. CJ
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Bob - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Spanish Jam
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FECKING throwing rocks until I personally believe the reason provided. *Note: THIS STATEMENT IS MEANT TO BE SARCASTIC, Feck it! **Note: Hear Hear c.b.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ***Note: *Note is NOT meant for c.b. He has gotten that already without *Note.
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UrsusI admit it - I'm not the greatest computer-technician either. I just can't get your streaming to work. Nothing happens when I click the link. I just get a window telling me, that I'm now listening to this and that - but I'm not listening to anything! Anyway, I think it's a much better idea to continue with mp3's and take a reasoanble price for it.
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Thanks David. I myself think that the name "taper's section" has an underlying message attached (i.e., tape, record, download), but I guess not. I have certainly downloaded some of it, but it would never affect my decision of whether to purchase, or not, purchase a new release. Those decisions come from my belief of whether it is a cd that I will listen to and get my money's worth out of. I am a full concert kind of guy, and will purchase a complete show, even if you put some of it up already on the taper's section. But anyway, I will still read the weekly history, but the streaming is not for me, as I have other things to do. Greg SC
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thanks for the music David. too bad about the change up, but oh well, like many others i dont have the luxery of streaming all this stuff, just bits n peices of it..... any hints to how soon we can expect a new release?? release the JGB reels!!!
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at least we now have some explanation and communication. thanks, david L, it was fun while it lasted.
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Thanks David for all of your hard work getting us the music.
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Hey David, Thanks for explaining the situation. It would be nice if you could provide a bit of information on the cool releases as well (something to look forward to). The fact that the taper's section was; designed around bits and pieces of shows, formatted using MP3's and often with several songs joined together - adds wieght to your claim. This is not my desired way to collect shows. I prefer flac or some other form of lossless downloading. But I will admit to enjoying the flexability of downloading the songs each week to listen to them when and where I wanted to. These downloads would never affect my willingness and or desire to buy any and all official releases. Well, that my two cents - keep up the good work.
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Since it was only "certain fans" who "had been regularly downloading the tracks offered in the Taper Section"; I must confess that I was one of them.Although I was unaware that what I was doing was wrong, I understand that ignorance of the law is no defense. Therefore I plead guilty and throw myself on the mercy of the court. I am sorry that I ruined it for everyone else. Please forgive me. I now feel compelled to return that which I have so shamefully taken. Please let me know where to send the files. Peace, Richard
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My nine month old daughter (Hazel) typed the subject I just wanted to correct my spelling mistake WEIGHT not WIEGHT...WOOPS!!
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Dave, Thanks for the feedback. Doesn't the mere term "Taper Section" infer that copies are being made? FYI - regardless of the nature of the change; I still can not get it to work for me. My PC at home and my laptop at work both have problems with the new interface. I do not have this issue with other streaming sites.
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I don't know who wrote David's "explanation" but it sure smells like a bunch of corporate gobbleygook. Corporate suits that Jerry and Phil's scene used to refer to as the "straights". The long trip just took another strange turn.
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Gray Flannel Organization Angered Over Free Samples.Sad but typical. Good Luck Dave.
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First off, many thanks to you David for hanging in there man, sure you have bills to pay too man. You are committed to the music and we all know it. Thanks for responding to us. I must agree with the mob here, this is a thin excuse, MP3 's are for downloading, burning, transfering to Ipod's etc. They knew what was going down and are now pulling back. I have every song on my HD. There must be more lawyers in the mix here then we realize. Jerry Garcia's website has not been updated in years, no more Pure Jerry releases, nothing at all? A smell a lawyer or two. Why are things moving so slow at Rhino? I'll bet that all the checks have not been cut or some one ( Bob) is crying poor again. There is no other reason why things are not moving any faster. David can pull out music from the Vault and post it weekly, but Rhino has held out for so long, Why, all this has to be legal matters again. We all know how slow things move in the court system. Now Rhino has pulled its best marketing tool of all, they could have easily tossed in a few commercials attached to these downloads about coming releases. Rhino could have used this technology in such a postive way. Rhino had its customers already lined up at the door, they choose to throw rocks at us instead of roses. All this has got to be tied to lawyers in the mist. I'm very disapointed in Rhino and now mad at how they treat us, we are a solid fan base willing to pay any price for our Grateful Dead music in HDCD format. Now on top of everything happening here we get this lame excuse. I really hope that all this will come to a end soon and David can get back to what he does best, putting out great music. I'm sure the Winterland Box set is all ready to go, we just need the legal team to sign off on it. I hate to think that the next great show coming out is now tied to a court dockett. Any Deadhead lawyers out there, please chime in here. Coconut Phil. Simpsonville, SC,
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and thanks for the music and your efforts. I´m a 55+ deadhead living in Sweden. I´m not that familiar with the computer world, so I must admit that I thought that the Taper´s section was for streaming only. First sometime in April or May I realized that I could download the music. And I did (that is, the music up to 1978). Now the downloading thing has stopped. No big deal for me. I look at the positive things instead - the new website (terrific!), two fine new releases from Rhino (1976 and 1971) and so on. So, I wish you David and your friends in the GD world good luck in your future work. I look forward to the future releases you mentioned in your latest message.
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The change of format here has, sadly, effectively denied me the opportunity to listen to the music that David selects and comments on ... Why? Simply that I don't listen to music via my computer. Until two weeks ago I was able to download the mp3s from this site and transfer them to my iPod for later listening - since November I've found this to be a wonderful resource providing listening pleasure when I'm on my frequent long-haul travels. I really don't see any difference between that and someone streaming the material onto their PC ... who has suddenly decided that downloading is a Bad Thing and streaming is a Good Thing? Given that the Tapers Section has always used lossy formats I don't see there be any overlap with high quality commercial releases - the 192K mp3s were fine for "hostile" listening environments but would very quickly reveal their limitations on a half-decent hi-fi system. As others have suggested, I would be happy to pay a (modest) monthly subscription to get the mp3s back again - or even a higher fee if the music was then available to download in FLAC or other lossless format. The current situation, though, leaves nothing but a bad taste in the mouth ... after the two splendid career-spanning box sets I had great hopes of the tie-up between GD and Rhino - on the evidence of the lackluster 3ftV and the PR fiasco over this resource, my confidence is fast disappearing. At this rate I will be re-examining my long standing policy to buy *every* commercial release by the Dead, even it I already had the material in other formats, as my little "thank you" to the band whose music has given so much pleasure over the years.
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Personally, I found some of the quality on the past downloads to be lacking in some cases. Don't get me wrong, I was very happy to hear those gems. My point is, if some of the past downloads were cleaned up and offered by Rhino for sale, I would likely purchase them. The downloads give you a good sampling of what one might want to have a better quality version of. My complaint with the Dick's Picks series is that the offerings are too few and far between and I can't pick what I want. If I could pick the shows I wanted and they were all great sound quality, I'd have to take another job in the evenings to meet my dead addition.
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I could never really understand why Rhino took the downloadable format away......Are they that paranoid about losing money for future releases????? Thanks David for some type of comment about this, I have no reason not to believe you. The selections over the past nine months have been outstanding. Something tells me that complete downloadable shows in lossless form are in our immediate future. Thank God Rhino has something cooking on the hoirizon!!!!
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>>From the very beginning, this program has always been intended to be a "for streaming only" service. Downloading was never announced, described or promoted in any manner.<< Nor was streaming. Just did a quick text search for the word "stream" in all the previous TS posts. Instances: 0 C'mon folks, my *kids* know what to do with .mp3s. I love the music, I'll get it however you let me, I'll buy it, I promise. I'll pay for a subscription, I'll buy it clip buy clip, on CD whatever. But you tell me that when you posted all those .mp3s and you didn't think people would download them? that there sounds like a Turd Blossom Special!
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Thanks, David, for your efforts in mining great nuggets from the Vault. I realize the decision to switch the Tapers Section audio format probably wasn't yours, but since your name appears on the "explanation" for the change, I'll address my response to you: The contents of the Vault clearly belong to the band and GDP, and we as fans have no right to expect free access to digital music files. However, those of us who are longtime supporters of and participants in the Dead's artistic and financial success shouldn't be asked to pretend that the switch to streaming-only audio isn't the withdrawal of a gift -- a gift we never asked for but that had been freely offered. Likewise, the Dead don't owe us any explanations as to why it has withdrawn its gift of free music, but the organization should be courteous enough not to insult our intelligence. "We didn't know files were being downloaded" is disingenuous nonsense (on the part of Dead Inc., at least, if not you directly). The Dead and Deadheads have always been technically advanced and adventurous. Feigning ignorance of how mp3 files work and how music lovers use them is ridiculous. The band can and should do what it wants with its music archives, but it shouldn't try to bullshit its fans. Nor should it use you as the conduit for its bullshit. We all deserve better than that. Peace, August Midwest Once in awhile you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right.
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I completely agree that we have no right to these downloads, but this whole situation is just strange. David wrote: "Recently, I and others that work on dead.net became aware that certain fans had been regularly downloading the tracks offered in the Taper Section." Well, since downloading is the *only* way one could listen to these tracks, this just means that people had been using the Taper's Section!! You DID want us to use it, didn't you? I have to agree with others who suggest that the streaming in no way replaces mp3s, and that it is very strange to think that this wonderful mp3 offering was cutting into the Dead's audience in some way... i'd wager the only people who even know about this site own multiple DPs, download series, official download copies of albums we owned on vinyl and CD... there is no way that a few mp3s from various shows was going to hurt this market. It really was a kind of a slap in the face to have this service removed. I'd even be willing to pay a (VERY SMALL) fee to have it come back as it was. I am still grooving on quite a few Scarlet > Fires etc. on my iPod--which is what you'd wanted, for gosh sakes, isn't it?
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I can't wait to purchase the offcial release that contains the tracks with the reel flips. Or the tracks with the dropouts. Or the poor mixes from the early 80s. Or the less than stellar quality of the early matrix experiments from the late 80s. Or the complete 4/7/72 show so that I have paid twice for the tracks I already bought on Steppin' Out. Or the slightly-interesting-but-unlistenable-more-than-once rehearsals. David, you did an awesome job. Thanks for all your work. Pilch
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Frankly, at this point, I couldn't care less about this whole fiasco. The lies and the cover-ups have sickened me to no end. The lack of product and the hollow promises of upcoming "very cool releases and programs" that never come to fruition (or are yanked back for no good reason) have tested my patience beyond endurance, and for that I am leaving. I am tired of being jerked around and treated like a faceless number at best and a criminal at worst, simply for liking the Grateful Dead. I strongly resent the tone DL and Co. took in the message above, essentially calling out loyal fans as "wrong-doers" for taking the bait he offered. I currently own every release to date, and that is plenty for me. Part of the fun of being a Deadhead is the sense of community, bit in my opinion, Rhino's meat-fisted approach has destroyed that entirely. I will still enjoy the music, but in my opinion the Grateful Dead has died. They no longer exist, except in our own memories of concerts. The current face of GDM or dead.net is a shallow mockery of what was, and blasphemy, akin to a "flesh colored Christ that glows in the dark". Not much is really sacred indeed. RIP The Grateful Dead
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I don't think this is the type of "spinning" that was originally intended for US ALL... David, perhaps, you are trying out for a job in the next Presidential administration, eh? How doofus do we appear? You have of course done many wonderful things for us, but don't minimalize it with this Rhinoplastic jive. Admit what's what. Is this the season of WHAT NOW?Peace~
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Respectfully to all, this is plain and simple, a bad business decision. The taper's section reinvigorated a community. It did so by delivering interesting content weekly with even more interesting commentary by David L. The comments the last few weeks prove this out. The tapers section was, in short, a wonderful product. One that spread by word of mouth, that got people excited about Monday's, and built a community that was effusive in its praise about this new type of product. Rhino/Dead.net achieved something few organizations could: loyalty, repeat visits, engagement, community, excitement. And to do so with content that was in some cases 40 years old! It's a marketer's dream. There were dozens of ways that they, as a business, could then delivery further services and products and make money. After all, they had the right ingredients sitting there waiting to eat (and buy) it up. Instead, they have decided to give these loyal, engaged consumers an inferior product. After almost a year. It's 2007 and these fans are now delivered a "streaming" product? Makes no sense. What's the result? Perhaps nothing, perhaps people will still buy whatever you release. However, I suggest the result may be something more profound, for Rhino/Dead.net as a company: a loss of trust, loss of engagement, loss of community. I surely as not the use case, but those are some of the things I am feeling right now, and they will affect now I react in the future to your offerings, if I stick around at all.
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thanks one more time, david, for all your work. you're right that the tapers section provided me with a fresh interest in the Grateful Dead. and the controversy brought back some varied memories, too. i think playing ignorant about people downloading mp3's is probably what i would've done, too, it got us this far!!! (i knew i was getting away with something)thanks, it was great while it lasted. make sure they don't forget that "cool" new stuff. strike while the iron is hot, and all. peace!!
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Totally lame ... the bus doesn't stop here anymore for me.
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WHY,WHY,WHY would you give us music, and then take it away? Bob Wier once quoted that "What we provide for people is music, and whatever they want to do with it, they are certainly free to do so". Whatever happened to that??? Who cares what people do with the music? They are fans, and I thought that through the years thats what the Grateful Dead was about-The fans.Give us the old Taper Section Back and act like you care about the fans. What would Jerry say about this???
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David - all you have to do is right click on the link, and that tells you whether you can save it to your hard drive. Deadheads have been doing that since the web appeared! So to assume we would only stream downloadable mp3s is, shall I say, disingenous in the extreme! And they are mp3s. Degraded by definition. Nice to have, but not the real thing. Indeed, when downloaded, they may well sell us a new release - assuming that is we haven't already got it by trading, download ot torrent? What this says to me is that you guys - and Rhino - are behind the times. And to foist that on us unannounced is also not the best way to signal such a change. People are pretty anti-Rhino now; me? Of two minds, but Rhino's postal charges to the UK are so high that it means any purchase will attract import duty, making purchases from Rhino out of reach. And I have over the years bought near as dammit all the Dead's official releases, from dead.net, as well as having c1000 shows traded and downloaded. No more. I'll buy them locally, and skip the bonus stuff. Too bad, but I can't afford the costs any more of buying through dead.net. JP Your explanation understood. Doesn't make matters better though!
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In the meantime, we ask that you all realize that dead.net's and GDP's commitment to the Dead Head community is unchanged
I guess that depends upon your definition of "unchanged" David.
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The difference between downloading and streaming was made very clear to this community when the Internet Archive was obligated to remove soundboard downloads (and allowed to continue streaming) a year or so ago. Recalling that distinction (not to mention the huge mess that ensued) would have been beneficial when planning for and implementing the Taper's Section. Oh well.
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12 years 10 months
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So this was like such a fun happy little Monday mornin' dream of just hittin that 'DownThemAll' firefox addon deal and loadin these nuggets on the iPod for the road, work and all that. Plus yakin about them with all the old show buddies and such. Now it is stinky with nasty posts and such and like you sortof sayin like we some sort of criminalities or somethin. Dang and here I am 15 minutes after clickin your 'stream' icon of Mornin Dew so I could get some goodness and am still lookin at a blank flippin black box of nothin in Forefox and IE too. And yes I got all those new-fangled plugins and such. THE STREAM DON'T EVEN Flippin WORK!! Please unstinkify this whole deal and just lay those mp3s back on us. We will always be layin loads of cash on the straights for good stuff they put out officially as well. GottaPokeAround (now more than ever for the goodness)
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It sounds like the real concern at headquarters was that people were trading the files they downloaded, which is a big sign of distrust. There's trust between traders that lineage is honest, and I wasn't trading these files. I was burning CD's to go into my backyard, crank the tunes, and play in the sprinkler with my son on a summer day. I won't stay inside glued to my computer to listen to a song. In fact, I can't stream at home because of virus protection, and I can't stream at work because of firewalls. Furthermore, I bought 12-31-76 because the '76 material that David provided made me revisit a year that I had overlooked. If this site had been stream only I would not have listened, and probably not have bought that release. Ditto for the '71 release.
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I don't believe for a second that those responsible the Taper's Section only recently discovered that users were downloading the MP3s. Not for a second. On the contrary, I think they are covering their arses after the suits at Rhino figured out that music, and particularly full shows (or at least one full show - 5 May 78 - and large parts of other shows - 7 April 72) from its recently purchased vault were being distributed. Either that or Rhino management has provided a statement and forced David L to put his name on it. While it's true that downloading has never been expressly sanctioned in the Taper's Section, not one mention of 'streaming' has been made. Quite where the above quote "for streaming only" is supposed to originate from I do not know. It was never explained that this was meant to be a streaming only service and the fact that until last week the file format was MP3 completely contradicts this claim. You don't stream MP3s, your browser downloads them and then play them. Naturally you can download them each time you want to play them, but common sense says you should download them once and save them to your computer, which is what I did and what, I expect, everyone else did. In fact, for a while I simply re-downloaded the tracks each time I wanted to listen to them but this quickly became a hassle - I just saved them to my computer. As the Taper's Section continued I continued saving the MP3s each week. This way, as has been discussed in the past week, I and others could compile CDs, make tapes, transfer the tracks to MP3 players, to hear what David L wanted us to hear. I compiled a database of each track offered with info about date, location, format, trivia, etc. The very fact that a full show and large chunks of shows had been offered over the course of many weeks also contradicts this supposed intention that the shows were streaming - once you've downloaded the seven or eight parts offered over a month, you can compile them on a CD or in an MP3 player. In the streaming format, this is much more difficult and pretty impractical. Why would I want a full show in ten different, un-attachable parts? Through the Taper's Section I've been able to get a real appreciation of a lot of Grateful Dead I otherwise wouldn't have listened to do, especially 1980s stuff. I spend loads of my time at my computer so I mostly listen to tracks through my sound system connected to my computer so in this way, ironically, I had much the same experience as if all the tracks had been streaming only. In this sense, I can't really see the difference from Rhino's point of view between streaming and downloading, except that streaming audio has a much narrower audience than the downloadable stuff since, as people have explained, many can't access computers for long, don't have speakers, etc. While it is good that we now have a (purported) explanation of the situation, the tone of the post above is pretty offensive. Essentially it points the finger at "certain fans" for downloading the MP3s when they shouldn't have been and cites this as the reason for switching to streaming. What else were we supposed to be doing with them? And this stuff about "certain fans" is a questionable - I bet nearly everyone who could download the tracks did download them. I never had any sense that doing so was wrong or not in the spirit of the service - the tracks were sitting here in a strictly downloadable format each Monday for anyone to take. If they had only ever been streaming I would have streamed them. I sort of figured I was doing the server a favour by getting the tracks once, then listening to them over time rather than revisiting every five minutes and hogging the bandwidth. But no, apparently it's the fault of a few fans (I am one of them) so I guess the other fans who never downloaded the tracks should be pretty annoyed with us. It's a hilarious situation when a corporation offers a free service, then takes away parts of that free service on account of customers using that free service. The fact that I as one of the downloaders, i.e. a young (23 y.o.) customer who has purchased a lot of live releases, the Golden Road boxset, Download Series, etc and am gearing up for new purchases, am being blamed for this is pretty disturbing. I don't know what to make of it. I want to keep listening but if Rhino seriously thinks that fans (and how many 23 y.o. Grateful Dead fans in Australia can there be, really?) should be criticised for doing what I thought was the purpose of this service, then do I really want to engage with Rhino any more? I appreciate David's fantastic work and I don't believe that he wrote the post above or, if he did, that it is sincere. I think he's trying to do his job and be a fan which, under present circumstances, must be really difficult. Sorry for such a long post.
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I was a little hesitant to log in this morning. Thanks for getting back to us, David. I'm sad that while I can stream from other sites now at work, these streams aren't working for me.
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Not working here. Changed to WMA, and that didn't work. Back to QT and the Windows Media player still presented, rather than the Quicktime player. Sigh ... jp
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12 years 10 months
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Cmon Dave they are only MP3's...not even the format that traders for the most part want to take part in. It was a nice place to go pick up a gem or two...but streaming only..bogusHere is an idea put some more official releases out both audio and video in a nice steady manner....I for one am not getting any younger so what are you/Rhino waiting for?
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David, I appreciate the communication, although I'll admit to being a little skeptical about the "official" reasoning behind the decision. At any rate, I am looking forward to the new stuff. One suggestion: I'd pay a $5 monthly subscription to be able to download from the Tapers' Section again. And I'd bet I'm not the only one.
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Who cares if we can download a few songs, with 30 years worth of music, you can't throw us a few bones every once in a while?
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This is definitely the work of corporate profiteering and legalese. DL is doing an obligatory spin as any of us would do at our work, especially if the job was putting together GD boxsets, dvds and compilations.One thing..no need to think any of the band members are involved because they got their payday in the lease deal with Rhino. They specifically stated the deal was struck because they didn't or couldn't, wouldn't get a handle on the business end of music making. I imagine Ace, Reddy and The Devils are looking Furthur gigging and aren't involved with any of this. Now, the Widder K......
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  • Default Avatar
    timhorpo
    12 years 10 months ago
    tapers section
    David.Please understand that certainly a few songs that we could download and listen to whenever we like, makes us enjoy the dead even more. Hearing a great song from a great show makes us more keen to do just that. What you guys seem to be doing now is turning people off, rather that turning people on with some juicy little nuggets. The downloads make us buy more man... isn't that what its all about??????? Peace
  • Default Avatar
    moment of bliss
    12 years 10 months ago
    enjoying music
    i don't get it. the band would let us bring a tape deck in and record the whole show,BUT you won't let us have a couple of songs a week
  • Default Avatar
    chinarider1
    12 years 10 months ago
    lame, weak, sad
    ......take another step back...and another step back........