Grateful Dead

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The first song I thought of was Jenny Take A Ride by Mitch Ryder & The Detroit Wheels.

C…C…Rider…
Jenny, Jenny, Jenny, Won’t you come along with me…

I figured this crew would have a few more songs about Jenny ready to list. Oro is correct, #3 is 867-5309 / Jenny by Tommy Tutone. For anyone wondering, #1 is Rock & Roll by the Velvet Underground, and #2 is Driver's Seat by Sniff 'N the Tears.

Ding, ding, ding, ding, winner, winner, chicken dinner!

“So for that, he said, ‘you will receive divine consciousness upon your deathbed’ so a, at least I got that going for me, which is nice”

Edit: Drivers Seat, lol, there’s a blast from the past!

I’ve heard that song “Driver’s Seat” umpteen times on the radio, and likely bad sounding radios that garbled lyrics, like the “sound system” at my old work, which is why I never knew the lyrics to that songs, no idea they had anything to do with a Jenny. The chorus was one of those radio earworms you had to hum to yourself to make it go away.

Oro, I am beginning to think you need the designation “PhD” tailing your moniker! Ken Jennings, stand aside! You ain’t got nuthin’ on Oro!!

yeah, Phd of useless information lol. “Got a head full of big ideas, that are driving me insane”
I’m like an encyclopedia of nonsense ; )

Thought similar about Drivers seat: never knew the lyrics, but it had that damn hook lol.

Oro - It is only “useless information” until you need it. You are like the 2022 MacGyver! Here is the premise of the TV series, tell me it doesn’t ring true: “…Angus `Oro' MacGyver has an extraordinary knack for unconventional problem solving and an extensive bank of often called “useless” knowledge that he believes can best be put to use saving lives…”
Dead ringer!

PS - I actually saw the guy that played MacGyver (RD Anderson) at an LA Kings game when I was visiting LA, and I was wondering if he used a piece of copper wire and chewing gum to gain entrance to the Forum to see the game…

Jenny climbing up a flagpole, Jenny looking through a pot hole,
Jenny with her hair on fire, how could anyone pass by her?

How indeed? That's the British band Kaleidoscope giving Shakespeare a run for his money on "Jenny Artichoke".

That’s kinda what I do for a living! Take what the salesman and or owner wants done, but can’t be properly or easily, and make it happen, which I learned from R&R and the Dead! Improvisational skills are quite useful for more than just music! “When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro”

I always thought that it was "Janie said when she was just 'bout five years old . . . ", and I don't know ANY lyrics to "Driver's Seat" (other than those two words), even after hearing it 100 times over the years. Both are great tunes . . .

Rhino has a new remaster of "Waiting For Columbus" out today, which includes complete copies of the three concerts that the original release was culled from! Yay, Rhino!

Be kind, rewind.

Pirate Jenny , Kurt Weill

Great album, I have the two CD expanded version from 2002 or so, but I look forward to picking up the new super deluxe release for the three concerts. Sure would be cool if someone, cough, cough, Deadheadbrewer, cough, shared their thoughts after listening to the new super deluxe set. Currently spinning the old Waiting for Columbus after seeing the post here, and it is a great album.

A courier service has just delivered my copy of the 8 CD box. I will report on the contents as soon as possible. I don't expect to be disappointed. My next door neighbour is on holiday so I can crank it up as much as I want. If ever there was music that demands to be played loud, it is Waiting for Columbus.

The Manchester show is decent enough, but there are no horns. Perhaps understandable as, while this was recorded, I understand it wasn’t part recordings for the album.

The London show, the first of the shows recorded for the album, is a big step and has the horns in tow, although not on Dixie Chicken. There’s plenty of differences in the performances with a great flugal horn solo on On Your Way Down, the best performance of Red Streamliner I’ve heard. This is a great show!

I’ve said this is was first night recorded for the album and, I believe, the first night with horns. The Washington show in this box was the last, so I can’t wait to hear how things progressed over duration.

Highly recommended!

Waiting for Columbus deluxe that is, and with the first two discs just being the original album it makes the remaining six discs £14 each. Convince me please someone but it seems a bit pricey to me. I'll probably cave in and order it tomorrow mind.

The only way I heard about it was via an e-mail from my streaming service (Qobuz), alerting me to new releases. I can listen for "free" on Qobuz, but will probably wait and just purchase the set. Anything I WOULD have purchased before streaming became a thing, I do, so as to keep the music industry putting things out. If I JUST stream, then I can't imagine anyone besides the streaming service makes money, and then eventually there is NO music released. And I still really like physical product. :)

I'm holding off on picking up the Super Deluxe Waiting for Columbus in hopes that the price will come down a bit in a few weeks, and because between the MSG box and a couple of other acquisitions this month, I feel like I am perhaps the proverbial fool who is soon parted from his money. And yet, what price joy? How much joy do you get from each disc and how does it compare to the price? Given the ability of music to lighten my mood and distract from the occasional ennui of middle age, music is in a sort of priceless category in my mind. Pretty rare that I've regretted spending money that I shouldn't have on music. Of course, I'm going to starve if I ever retire, but I will have a great library of music to listen to while I do.

Yes to physical product. I recall when Neil Young and others recently removed their stuff from spotify, I just thought, huh, spotify, I've heard of that, and went to the shelf and picked out some Neil Young to listen to.

I've regretted selling albums far more often than I have buying them.

You don't need telling twice, though!

For those Little Feat fans justifiably excited about the Waiting For Columbus box I also want to point out that in June Rhino put out an official release of Electric Lycanthrope which is a 1974 performance that most Feat fans prefer to Waiting For Columbus.
For some unfashionable reason it was a RSD release on both vinyl and CD in the US while it received general release in Europe.You should be able to track it down.
Dead.net I haven’t forgotten your outrageous and unjustified 450% increase in international shipping charges.It has already cost you the $179 I would have spent on the Garden box and all the money I would have spent on future releases.Fix it please.

DL says NYC was in its prime 81-83. I lived there at that time. It was an open sewer. The early 80s were plagued by the beginnings of the crack and AIDS epidemics. It was vibrant, but extremely gritty in its vibrancy. Listen to the Rolling Stones' "Shattered." It was still relevant in the 80s. "Go ahead, bite the Big Apple, don't mind the maggots."

That said, I'm psyched for this release.

I need to get that Waiting for Columbus box. Looks like a winner. Big Feat fan. I did order Electric Lycanthrope now that it can be found reasonably priced while searching the Waiting for Columbus box.

I saw Ear Music quietly snuck in a couple of Steve Morse era Deep Purple vault releases from 95 and 2002 so got onboard for those. Sad he had to step away after 28 years as their guitarist. I really liked his contribution to that band and how he helped add some depth and virtuosity into their songwriting and arranging from riff and power chord rock into something more melodic and unpredictable.

I'm pretty excited for this MSG box. The years immediately preceding my first live Dead experience. Virtually every show is new to me so the experience will be fresh.

Sorry to read that he has had to stand down from Deep Purple. I knew he had pain issues with one of his hands, but I didn't know it had come to this.
I saw Deep Purple in 2017, for the first time since the early 70's, and they blew the roof off the joint. Still had the spirit of the earlier band, but with an added ingredient. Of their more recent live albums "From The Setting Sun...Live in Wacken" is a really good one. They open with "Highway Star", - Steve Morse could obviously play it standing on his head. Incredible. When I got it there was a dvd included, and I always watch this rather than listen to the cd.

From Dead.net Store support, an email which starts with an apology for their tardiness in replying (hardly necessary as the box release date is far in the future). It then continues: "We are looking into the increased shipping and handling charges on international orders and will update you again as soon as possible". So this offers up some hope. We will just have to wait and see what transpires.

Maybe some light at the end of the tunnel.Would be amazed if they looked into it and found $70 was the best price they could get for someone to do this.

Someone has had a reply from Dead.net saying they are keeping the $70 international shipping charge because that reflects current international shipping costs.Also that last years Listen To The River shipping cost was the mistake not this years one.This is complete bs.
I could send them dozens of international shipping bills from dozens of different retailers that show this to be nonsense.
Oh well that’s the end of Dead.net for me.

The problem with the shipping charges could well be related to huge increases in prices charged for international delivery by the US postal service that are completely out of line with industry pricing.They are trying to remove themselves from the international delivery system by making their shipping so expensive no one will use them.
Dead.net have not taken the hint and looked for alternatives.Maybe they should contact businesses like RR Donnelly or FedEx or any of the others that do this.At the moment they are just sleepwalking into trashing their international market.

Domestic shipping for this box is double of last years, the rates on the Rhino site have not doubled.

"Dejoy!" said to the sneering Seinfeld tone of "Newman".
Why is this Trump holdover still there at USPS?
I still can't send a letter to New Zealand either.
Still pissed he jacked up mail rates after destroying
all the high speed sorters. Couldn't have just sold them off?
He is making millions himself off the deal. Look him up.

You raised my blood pressure.

Deep breath.. ohmmmm, ohmmm.. stretch, some aroma therapy, positive thoughts.

None of this is working!.. trying one last thing.. (putting the acoustic set from Dave's Picks 43 in the spinner now). Wow, that worked.. all smiles and happy thoughts (yet trace scents of lavender, Chamomile and Jasmine remain)

DeJerk should listen to more acoustic GD far away from anything to do with the USPS and the world would be a better place. I try very hard to do no harm in life.. no harm to others, to make something better and not worse, fix not break.. make someone smile for no reason.. it's opposite day with this dude, what a POS. He has in fact done harm to many to help a few (mainly him). Talk about your walking, talking conflicts of interest...

Now where were we? Ah yes, acoustic GD, breath in, breath out... Ah yes, the world is indeed a better place.

Just think Little Sadie like a mantra, oh wait, maybe those aren’t the best lyrics lol

A great little folk song though.. love the lyrics and what Jerry puts into it.

Per wikipedia:

The earliest written record of the song dates from 1922.[1] This lyric fragment, transcribed in Joplin, Missouri, is noted in the 1948 book Ozark Folksongs, Vol. II.

"Bad Lee Brown"

Last night I was a-makin' my rounds,
Met my old woman an' I blowed her down,
I went on home to go to bed,
Put my old cannon right under my head.

Jury says murder in the first degree,
I says oh Lord, have mercy on me!
Old Judge White picks up his pen,
Says you'll never kill no woman ag'in.

Some of the known recordings/variations of the song:
1929 Bad Lee Brown [unissued] - John Dilleshaw & The String Marvel (OKeh 402406-B)
1929 Little Sadie - Clarence Ashley (Columbia 15522-D)
1939 Bad Man Ballad - Willie Rayford, recorded at Cummins State Farm, near Varner, Arkansas by John Lomax and Ruby Lomax
1946-1948 Whisky Blues - Slim Dusty - Regal Zonophone Collection - Slim Dusty (8142472) Very rare. Exact date is not known.
1948 Cocaine Blues - Roy Hogsed, US Country #15. Music/lyrics attributed to T. J. 'Red' Arnall
1940s Chain Gang Blues - Riley Puckett
1940s Bad Lee Brown - Woody Guthrie and Cisco Houston
1959 Badman Ballad - Cisco Houston The Cisco Special! album
1960 Transfusion Blues - Johnny Cash Now, There Was A Song album, and on 1968 album At Folsom Prison.
1960 Bad Man's Blunder - The Kingston Trio String Along album
1960 Whiskey Blues - Slim Dusty Songs for Rolling Stones album
1968 Cocaine Blues - Johnny Cash At Folsom Prison album
1970 Little Sadie "Trees" (trees folk band) Recorded 1970 On the shore album Trees Folk rock, Genre: psychedelic folk, progressive folk, progressive rock
1970 In Search of Little Sadie and Little Sadie - Bob Dylan Self Portrait album
1970 Little Sadie - Doc Watson Doc Watson on Stage (Vanguard VSD 9/10)
1972 Little Sadie - John Renbourn Faro Annie (Reprise MS2082)
1978 Cocaine Blues - George Thorogood & The Destroyers
1979 Little Sadie - Tony Rice Unit, Manzanita album
1993 Little Sadie - Jerry Garcia, David Grisman and Tony Rice, The Pizza Tapes
1996 Little Sadie - Freight Hoppers Where'd You Come From, Where'd You Go? album
1998 Little Sadie - The Sadies Precious Moments album
1999 Little Sadie - Mark Lanegan I'll Take Care of You album
2001 Little Sadie - Old Crow Medicine Show - The Troubles Up and Down the Road EP
2004 Little Sadie - The Radiators - Earth vs. The Radiators: the First 25 Live DVD
2005 Little Sadie - John Doyle - "Wayward Son"
2006 Little Sadie - Crooked Still - Shaken by A Low Sound album; featured in The Last of Us Part II trailer presented at E3 2018, and also in the final game.
2006 Little Sadie - Greg Graffin - Cold as the Clay album.
2011 Little Sadie/White-Wheeled Limousine/Just One More - Bruce Hornsby and the Noisemakers "Bride of the Noisemakers" album
2013 Little Sadie - Tim Timebomb

I'm honored to be in the same sentence with reference to this song. It's one of favorites and a classic with great history.

I saw Garcia play Little Sadie several times, with his acoustic band and with John Kahn, very cool tune.

Why not skip the CD shipping, buy the digital copy and make your own CD's? Save some wait time, too.

Jay-have you had a look on the board for the digital copies of the Lyceum shows that have just been released?

Folks! Been wondering about something in advance of the MSG 81-83 box and wanted to solicit some crowd thoughts.

Obviously there are some Heads who are first-half-80s super fans. I haven't been one of them, nor are my Dead friends. I think part of that has been assumptions about how ragged the band was in the first half of the decade.

And I'm wondering if assumptions about those years are in part down to just not having as good tapes of that era.

That is, while the era was objectively rougher, fewer people know about how many highs and gems there were simply because the years are lesser heard, and they're lesser heard because non-aud tapes -- soundboards from cassettes -- aren't as good.

Any truth to that idea in your humble opinions?

Guess who’s iTunes decided to interpret a change of album art for one GD track?

Yup, you got it!

Just turned my entire GD iTunes library into one massive album (Dave’s Picks 36)! Well done Apple! No undo button… no pre-process prompt. Just Bam!

So, that’s everything GD Store from DP1 and GrayFolded to now, minus a medium hiatus owing to grumpiness on my part…Including a few cheeky Boots’ including 1/11/90, all of the Download series of which the original files are god knows where…

So, do we make lemonade and use this an excuse to start again from scratch? Better bitrate lossless rips etc. reacquaint myself with some of the original Dick’s gold? Fix a few buggered files and odd names etc?

Or do I try and fix the metadata and somehow manually rebuild the titles? I have the file created dates and the actual library has retained the folder structure at least, so physically, I have a skeleton to work from.

One seems like a lot of effort but perhaps quicker, the other seems like a long long project, but maybe worth it it in the long run…

Answers on a postcard? Bummer is that I can’t listen to Dave’s 43 until I commit one way or the other, because so far nothing has synced to the cloud version. As soon as I go online with that broken list, I just know the cloud version will also become “embuggered”. Serves me right for having the brain fade (literally, I had a mild brain cognitive function issue that led to the original screw up that I was trying to fix… I’m all good now though! :-) )

I work in IT and never made backups. What a loser!

There is another option, the nuclear option. I’m sure I installed iTunes from scratch and then it populated from the cloud version last time I got a new laptop. Maybe that’s a way forward? But where’s the fun in that?

Love you all! And thanks again to Dr Rhino for going above and way beyond to help with a busted disc issue recently... Means the world to me, and I can’t say thank you too many times.

Your Metadata for the most part should still be intact. I think your cleanest way put is to import your library folder by folder. The song names, album names, etc. should come through exactly like you had before.

I think..

Good luck. We've all had something like this happen at least once.

Edit: It pays to clean up your metadata after you rip a show and put all the songs in the same folder, i.e. 1969-11-02 Family Dog. These CD sets often create a new folder(directory) for each CD using lord knows what name... the better it's organized the easier it is to recover.

I actually made a backup of the entire local iTunes library and did a clean fresh install of iTunes.

The cloud then pulled down everything “as was, prior” - the version with the original screw ups whose correction led to the larger problem.

I carefully went through and corrected those, and bizarrely noticed a lot of other duplicate tracks and errors in a load of earlier rips “corrected themselves”.

I can only conclude that my pre-cloud and post-cloud libraries were clashing and iTunes Match couldn’t handle certain releases.

For instance, Nightfall of Diamonds and Crimson, White and Indigo both had three copies of each track under one Album title, with each track being slightly differently named. Whatever I did cured that, making those playable again.

I will go a redo the original Dick’s as a matter of course using newer encoding and better bitrates. Otherwise, touch wood, whatever I did to phuck it all up, I managed not to repeat. Note: do not rip Dave’s to iTunes when suffering confusion due to toxin build up in the brain! Lol. As I said, all sorted with that now, and it’s so much easier to handle the little details. A month ago, I couldn’t remember my age or phone number and was a bit of a babbling imbecile. I just didn’t notice at the time.

I don’t know about y’all, but I like my shows to run in order, so if a Dave’s comes with another half show as filler over two discs, I’ll call that disc 3 and rehash the track info to get the playing order to my liking. That’s where I screwed up. I think.

Anyway, all seems good now, and I see what you mean about the physical library and how iTunes orders / makes its media folders. Good tip!

But above all, I now have a backup scheduled!

Thanks again!

S.

So, yes, definitely. I've thought about that a few times myself and I think the overall quality of the recordings is one reason why people don't go for the early 80s that much. It's amazing how with 15-20 years of technology and the soundboards got worse. Ha!

First no offense to anyone as I’m sure my opinion will not be shared by many, but he did ask.

I think the whole culture has been suffering from the over influence of taper bias all along. Dave is a prime example. How many times have we wondered if he picked the right city and street, but ended up going to the wrong house. Conjecture to be sure, but a plausible argument by some.)
So What’s this taper bias that you say!
Way back when, when there were very few tapes: taping was verboten so harder to do, the equipment to make tapes was mostly lousy, so it was harder to get a great recording.
So BITD, with Sound board tapes, (though not accurate in any way), you could often get a much better, listenable recording, comparatively. So though they aren’t accurate (they don’t sound like what the actual sound of the instruments are in the room it’s performed in etc), they became the go to standard. Plus no one likes to listen to THAT guy yell in the most heavy NY city accent “Dddddaaaaaaaaakkkk Sssssssttttttaaaaaaaarrrrrrr Jjjjjjjjjj-rrrrrrrrreeeeeeeee” every three minutes the whole night!
Now add to the above, the increased frequency response provided by using reel to reel, and most importantly, having a somewhat dedicated individual utilizing a separate mix just for the recording versus using the afterthought house mix, and the mythical status of such tapes was enhanced.

So when you had very few good tapes, shows that were good, versus great, started getting mythical status since there weren’t many other shows to compare too. To me, that’s how certain shows have become significantly overrated over the years. If a ridiculously good sounding tape of what is arguably only a “B” show, was the only reference and the tapes from “A” shows were not good, the B show, through tape traders WOM, like some ancient cultural tribe passing secrets and knowledge around the camp fires, was elevated to a status it may not relatively deserve.

But today, via the archive and so many official releases, if one takes the time to listen to a variety of shows from all eras etc, you will notice that much of what has become thought of as common assumptions about certain shows/eras etc, (the music itself) are not fully accurate, thus perhaps robbing some of the pleasure and enjoyment of these dismissed out of hand shows, because of some of these bias’s that were planted long ago.
Interestingly, as recording and other related technology has improved significantly, aud recordings often became better than SBs. But the bias that SBs were the only way to go had become so ingrained in the culture to the point that the majority of folks never check out Auds, unless it’s the only source available, or the SB is unlistenable. And yes, there are perhaps more lousy sounding Auds than great ones, but when done well, they can be spectacular and a much more accurate representation! Personally, nothing beats a properly done matrix!
Ironically, while technology improved, the later era SB recordings were often diminished. But this is not because the band is “ragged” or the music is lessor, or not good! (Yes one can argue the mid eighties suffered some of that, but I feel there was a trade off there)
No, once again, much of the stigma that came from the fact that many of the tapes were now produced as an afterthought, and for the mixer to use as a tool, a secondary concern, by Dan Healy who’s main concern was live sound reinforcement, not making a recording, combined with the lower fidelity of cassettes.
That’s not to say that sometimes those SBs are still pretty damn fine for what they are: we have ample proof from several official releases! But no matter how excellent, they aren’t going to sound THE SAME, or as good as a recording by a dedicated mixer using reel to reel tape.

So to me, the problem then isn’t so much the sound/music/band, it’s more personal, psychological, based on bias’, assumptions, and personal preferences, often stemming from recordings, not personal experience. And hey, I’m not trying to sway anyone from their pleasure zone etc. Just saying you might be surprised at how good other stuff can be, given the right ears and attitude.
I just find personally, the quality of the show, the playing, the set list, and most of all, the effort and X factor are just as important or more so, than the recoding. I’ll take an ok recording of a ridiculously hot show over a pristine Betty reel of a so so show any day! In other words, I’m more interested in what goes in the container, versus what kind of container is used. But many people have become so biased that if it’s not a Betty board it’s not worth listening to, which is certainly their choice, it just seems so limiting and i feel bad that folks may be missing out on so much good stuff for what may not be an accurate reason?

The other thing that allows me to be open to all eras, is not to compare apples to oranges etc. I only compare shows within a tour, or perhaps a year. The Dead was so fluid, and thus different, on many levels that to compare say, anything from 68 to 78, is futile. So by not getting hung up on those incomparable comparisons, it allows me to take each show as it is, on its own merits and failures, which every show has both, imho.

Just to be clear, I am not trying to argue that one era is better than another, (everyone is certainly entitled to their opinions and preferences) only that perhaps SOME folks may be biased about such, due to taper bias, or cultural stereotypes, instead of first hand empirical knowledge.
As one who has spent a fair amount of time the last several years trying to go furthur (check out Pick of the Day with discussion) adventuring into many of these “fly over tours” I have come to realize just how good and often consistent the band was more often, and during times, that many would never consider, out of hand, because of negatives biases passed down through the years etc. I’ve found very enjoyable GOGD from every year, it’s just some years/shows have higher batting averages. Just gotta poke around!
So I’m sure the shows in the upcoming box will not sound the same as a pristine Betty, and via the constant evolution of the band/music, may sound different than your favorite year, but that doesn’t mean that it’s bad, or lessor, or not worthy, just different, so what?
I think this box is going to rock because of the quality of the shows, and the impressive audio improvements provided via plangent and full Norman etc. comparatively, if you compare to the comparable.
If your a big Deadhead, and there were no Betty’s, or multitrack masterpieces, and all you had to compare was similar material, I’d bet many would think much more highly of this release, and of this era!
Obviously, not everyone’s going to like everything or in the same way.
But I think most folks who give this a proper consideration will be pleasantly surprised.
So yeah, I think recordings have had a big influence, but not in a good way.
Anyway, hopefully that at least makes sense, and again, not trying to sway anyones preferences, just suggesting perhaps a different perspective?

Good post Oro, I would pretty much agree with your analysis of the issues regarding recording quality vs. show quality. All else being equal, I prefer a high quality recording, but, having said that, I find that if a show is good the impact of the recording quality fades into the background pretty quickly as my ears adjust.

As far as the early '80s stuff, there is a lot of great stuff there, I particularly dig some of the Scarlet Begonia's > Fire On The Mountain sequences from that era, for example on DP 6, the secret tracks on DP 13, and of course that Space>Fire On The Mountain transition from Dead Set, which was one of the things that hooked me on the Dead in the first place. I used to have a cassette of a JGB show from Music Mountain in NY in 1982 with a smokin' Don't Let Go, so there are plenty of times that Jerry was on fire in the early '80s, with the Dead and otherwise. And while not everyone digs the Drums > Space sequences, I do, a lot, and there are plenty of good ones in the early '80s. But, it doesn't affect my enjoyment at all if there are folks who don't like this, or other eras. I dig what I dig, and others are free to do the same, it's no skin off my back.

Starting todays listening with Electriclarryland by the Butthole Surfers. Cinnamon and sugary and softly spoken lies, you never know just how you look through other people's eyes...

Charlie3 that Space>Fire on the Mountain from that lp is in a class by itself. That also is the one that got me really interested in what the Dead were doing. I like Drums>Space alot too, reason why I went to a lot of shows, to see what they were doing during those segments, Infared Roses for sure.
The Drums>Space in later years 93-94 were also very good, and long. I always look for "The Last Time" after Space in those later years, it's was like this could be the last time your ever hear such sounds. Space is the Place

Oro-that makes sense what you say about how some shows get to be regarded as classic, while others get passed by. Both 8/27/72 and 5/8/77 have suffered from reduced status in my ears since I have heard other shows from the same timespan. It surprises me looking back at the first Taping Compendium how some of the Europe 72 shows are dismissed - yet to me, every time I play any one of them, I love it. Maybe the people who wrote the book just didn't have very good tapes. Paradoxically, they go on for pages about how great 8/27/72 is.

I like to think that the reason I now like some years a lot more than others is because I listened to so many tapes from all years between about 1987 and 2004, and gradually found I liked some a lot more than others. I didn't plan it that way. The official releases added to that a bit too. 1972 just seems to get better and better. Some years don't though! Just for me - that's not an objective view.

As a rule of thumb, maybe......if someone disses a year or show-ignore them and find out for yourself. If they overload a show or year with praise - give it a listen-they may be right!

84 and 85 were good years for D/S to my ears.
Also like the modern midi versions since those were the years I was going and so I know, from a visual perspective, what the lights looked like while all the sounds were happening.

I’m looking forward to this Box. I had a good sounding copy of 3-9-81 on cassette, and later upgraded to CD-R, but I expect that it will sound far superior in this Box.
A lot of my early-80’s shows that I had on cassette often sounded sped up a bit, from a tape deck running at the wrong speed. Don’t know if that was from the master deck or later in the generations.
These shows say speed corrected and Plangentized, so they should be cleaned up pretty nice.

Well said and true in my book. I think Gainesville is a perfect example. Aud is all we got and it's smokin"!

Wow.. there's a lot to unpack here. First, thanks Oro for putting something this difficult together.

It's hard to argue there is no bias in how we perceive. Our brains scan, absorb, look for and recognize patterns every waking hour. Patterns on top of patterns and we are quick to recognize a familiar pattern, then we classify it - and so it is.. fact (at least in our own grey matter). That's how those cool optical allusions work, we process until we have it 'figured out' then we move on even if we are wrong and the source was/is some form an illusion or some form of bias.

I agree with your era argument too.. a good show it is a good show and even with bad shows there might a shining moment or three that makes it worth it (thinking that Visions of Johanna from 3/18/95 for example). I've also always said the later years would be viewed differently if they were better recorded or Betty recorded. There's a great 82 show you tossed out on the pick of the day thread that sounds really very good for a cassette master, what happened in 83, 84 and 87? Some of those boards do not sound very good at all and these shows and years are lost to most. It could be the crowd got rowdier and louder, lots of factors at play and there are good sounding boards from these years. But I think we know Healy mixed it up some sound better than others. I also think Don Pearson getting involved with taping helped as did the gradual shift to PCM DAT's.

Point being.. if we are going to take that extra step beyond listening and grade or judge, the recordings and the performance must be measured somehow or at least accounted for. Gestalt is the word I am thinking of. The whole picture (soundscape).

I vary from you a bit that audience recordings when well done can be superior to soundboards, ignore matrix efforts a minute. I agree with what you are saying in the years when board tapes declined.. but I don't think it's necessarily a bias to like really well-done soundboards over a really well done aud or matrix. So true, it's not what it sounded like being there, but it's a purer distillation of what the artists were doing on stage before it hit the airwaves, speakers, crowd noise, that passing jet, etc. Those passing jets are a downer.

I'm not disagreeing with what you wrote, more adding context and an opinion. I like the subject matter and it's not something that is easy to put pen to paper.

I need to give this more thought.. a very interesting topic.

I did buy this box. With the exception of the few cassette masters on 30 trips, this is the first box set that is comprised of cassette masters. This is a turning point, the first box sets were only multi-track and they were quick to advertise this.. two track were Dicks Picks (now Dave's) and box sets were multi-track. So we have entered a new era. I certainly hope they smoke, I bought this box. It's a little risky though. Can't wait to listen for myself, most of these shows will be first listens.

Keep it alive folks, that's all I have for now. My image is that of the Indian leaders sitting in a circle in the teepee, talking, listening, adding to, and taking a hit off the peace pipe to contemplate what has been said.

Listened to 11-30-80 last night, sounded really good and the band was smokin’.
Gainesville matrix, Gainesville matrix, Gainesville matrix…….

... and I appreciate your willingness to share your unbiased and non-judgmental thinking. A comment on one or two of your points. Since my first live show over 40 years ago, I became an avid collector, even tried my hand at being a taper-hanger-on ... Having a clean SBD was nirvana, because somehow, those shows were wonderful performances (IMO) AND the sound was clean and clear. But there were plenty of audience tapes that featured great performances and the sound was bearable (for me, the Hollywood Palladium in August, for example). The other factor for me is the shows I've been to ... whether SBD or Aud, they are all special and hold a special place in my memory banks, regardless of quality and performance. And on to another point of yours regarding review of any particular year. For sooo long I ignored 78 and 79 shows .... either didn't have enough good material in my collection or was unimpressed with what I'd heard at the time.... I always think of Tennessee Jed being the example ... it went from a quick, boppy, tight moving tune in the 72 time frame to a slow, ponderous, plodding, molasses-filled puddle of goo in the 78/79 time frame.... at least that's what I thought for a long time. I've since come to enjoy 78/79 (but really like 80 too!!) much more ... either because of being exposed to great performances, or because of the great recordings (Betty boards from summer of 78). Again, thanks for your thoughtful analysis!! .......tcc

I love, love Dave's Picks Vol. 8, 11/30/1980. Jeffrey Norman did a fantastic job with the Matrix. The audience sounds great but the Matrix sounds better. The soundboard is very good, but as noted sounds a little thin.

A great release and a go to for me that is still in regular rotation.