Grateful Dead

Thanks very much for the reviews of the shows in the box. I decided very quickly that this wasn't for me, but reading your review has made me feel tempted. It does look very absorbing, the way you put it.

You mentioned Pentangle, and I have an excellent cd of theirs called "Basket of Light", and one that hasn't grabbed me at all called "Sweet Child" They passed me by at the time and are more a group I admire than really like, I suppose.
You also mentioned "Walking The Dog" and questioned it's origins. As far as I know ( which isn't very far, to be fair) this was first recorded by Rufus Thomas in the early 60's. The Stones also cut a great version on their first album.

I hit Order Now shortly after getting the text from my nephew. Fortunately, I had some scratch laying around doing nothing, so I jumped. But thanks for the reviews, as I’m unfamiliar with a bunch of these shows.

In a side note, I have a friend named Dave that heads up to Maine 4-5 times a year. Brings me back a case of MBC Dinner, which we don’t get here, plus some other good beers.

Jeff Smith -- glad you found my ramblings useful!

Boblopes - That's a bummer to hear about the AME pricing, I didn't know that... But yes, this is pretty much the Althea box, and to a lesser extent the Shakedown box, and both these things are fine with me!

Sounds like it's the Althea Box, which is not a bad thing...

Unfortunately, I think both the Europe '72 and May '77 GSTL AMEs were the same price as the full release from what I recall. I was able to use a coupon and somehow got the $450 E '72 AME for $405 pre-tax with Free Shipping, but that was maybe a month or so before Boxzilla - so expensive year that year...

WOW! Amazing show-by-show impressions in such a short time. A huge help, although I haven't hit "purchase" yet either. You summed me up just exactly perfect: "Moved the needle from “I don’t want this and I can’t afford it” closer to “I think I do want this, but can’t really afford it."

(And they still haven't arranged for PayPal to provide payment options at Check Out.)

So, I’ve been on the fence about this box. There’s a lot in it that I don’t know, in terms of shows… Which might be good. Might not. No track listing doesn’t help me make a decision.
It’s a lot of money.

So I decided to raid the Archive and listen a bit. I thought it might help me decide. It… sort of did? But not quite. Anyway, I thought I would share my thoughts. WARNING: My thoughts go on for a while. This post might be too long for the site, or indeed for anyone to read. If so, my apologies. I’m just trying to help clarify my thoughts, and maybe it will help some other lost sailor as well.

Your mileage, or course, will vary. My tastes are idiosyncratic of course, as is everyone’s, and no doubt I am betraying my biases here without even meaning too. That said, here are the impressions of the full shows listed as being in the box (I can’t comment on the filler or the compilation shows for obvious reasons):

10/3/94 – Good energy overall. Funky wah-wah on Little Red Rooster. GDTRFB and All Along the Watchtower are energetic and tight. Jerry in good voice, eg. on Bird Song and Touch opener. Nice fat Shakedown (16+ min) feels like the highlight of the set. The band’s last show in Boston; Brokedown feels very emotional. Worth having imo. 4 out of 5 stars.

3/17/93 – Wow! A big surprise. Great show, tremendous energy, strong setlist. Starts with a slinky Shakedown, then to Wang Dang, Lazy River Road, Desolation Row, Eternity, Liberty. Vocals on Shakedown are on point. Second set: Picasso Moon > Crazy Fingers > Playing > Dark Star > Dums/Space > Handsome Cabin Boy Jam > Other One > Days Between > Good Lovin’… Rreally good stuff here, well played and bouncing. I guess this is a Vince show? There is plenty of that Midi/synth sound that I don’t love, but there is enough other goodness going on that I can deal with it. The handsome Cabin Boy Jam is familiar to me from a band called The Pentangle – Brit folk from the 70s, are you familiar Daverock or Simonrob? The song “The Trees They Do Grow High” had the same tune, and this rendition is absolutely lovely, an instrumental with delicate guitar/bass interplay. It’s nothing like I ever heard from the band before. BUT the big bonus, for me, is the encore, which is a genuinely well played Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds. Yowza! A beautiful song, beautifully rendered. The fact that’s it’s the encore of an already-outstanding show is a just icing on the cake. This show is a standout. (It’s also pretty short, so I guess there will be filler from 9/15/82? Which is odd, but no arguments here…) 5/5.

5/12/91 – Another better than expected show. Some serious jamming on Picasso opener, then a substantial Althea, and first set overall seems well played. (A reminder, I didn’t listen to ever note, just dipped in and out.) Second set is strong: Help/Slip/Frank > LLR > an epic Terrapin. The Terrapin then has a roughly 10-minute outro/coda/jam that floats along, folding back upon itself rather than leading into another song before finally eliding into Drums. 4/5.

12/29/89 – Another solid show if not quite as surprising as some of the others. Cold Rain opener is nice, Althea in first set has some engagingly weird wah-wah going on in the background. Iko in the 2nd set apparently has Clarence Clemons surprise-guesting on the sax, which is fun although his contributions seems minimal from what I can hear. Playin’ > Crazy Fingers > UJB seems the meat of the second set. Epic Morning Dew as well, some nice interplay between Jerry and Bob in the opening. Seems solid and well played… but not especially surprising or unexpected. I would have loved to be there though… 3/5 but maybe that’s too harsh?

7/15/89 – This one doesn’t make much impression on Archive. 2nd set includes a nice Crazy Fingers > Truckin’ > Smokestack Lightning, but much of the first set is pretty generic and the rest seems just OK. I didn’t listen to the 11-minute Sugar Mag so maybe it’s a standout lol. This seems like kind of a forgettable show? 2/5.

9/16/87 – Can’t quite get a handle on this one. Starts energetically, with Touch and Scarlet Begonias (no FOM). I’m not a fan of High Time, and it kind of sucks the energy out of the first set. 2nd set tried to have fun with Greatest Story > Devil with the Blue Dress On > Good Golly Miss Molly > Blue Dress > He’s Gone, but it’s more engaging on paper than on record. Probably great if you were there, which I was not. So I don’t know… kind of a head-scratcher for me. 2/5

11/21/85 – Kids, this is a great show! Opener is Big Boy Pete – what? Encore is Walking the Dog – huh? I don’t know these songs but they sound like blues relics from the ‘20s, possibly the 1820s. They are both great, not just novelty songs but actually well performed, and they bookend a nice show with lots of highlights and crisp, attentive playing. Another nice Shakedown in the 2nd set, into Crazy Fingers > Playing and some other nuggets. In general, this feels like a show transcends its playlist. I gather there will be filler from the next night? Don’t know what that will be, but that show has a nice Hell in a Bucket > Sugaree and Minglewood > Althea quartet to open. Here’s hoping! 5/5 for 11/21.

7/13/84 – This is the show with the Scarlet > Touch > Fire sequence that Dave mentions in his chat; it also goes on to Man Smart and a few other things. The encore is a Dark Star (!) that runs for 16 minutes. There is a tight Loser in the first set and Jerry sounds in pretty good voice, appropriately world-weary. Seems like a good show, possibly a box highlight. Maybe 5/5?

8/20/83 – Solid show, maybe not quite great. Alabama Getaway opener (I like), highlights mainly in the 2nd set: Shakedown, Estimated > Eyes, Other One > Black Peter > Good Lovin’. Again, not sure it will expand anybody’s understanding of what this band can do, but it’s a good show, well played. 3/5

5/1/81 – Lots of good stuff here, Alabama opener and Althea > LR Rooster and Jed > Let It Grow > Deal later on to close the first set. Althea is laid back, segues nicely into LRR, which is hefty and I like Bobby’s slide fwiw. There seems more of a touch on it than in many other versions. Keyboards are sweet on that song too. Let It Grow builds up some steam into Deal to close the 1st set. 2nd set opens with Feel Like a Stranger > Franklin’s Tower, which is something new to me. It’s a great Franklin’s, with Jerry all over the frets and Brent very active. Sailor-Saint is OK, never my fave but it’s fine. A nice long He’s Gone into a shortish Other One; a substantial Wharf Rat among other things. Not a flashy show, but solid and enjoyable. 4/5, with the Franklin’s alone contributing +1 to the overall score…

3/14/81 – This was my senior year in high school and I lived a half hour away, but oh well. I was busy listening to The Clash and the Ramones. Tremendous Sugaree, tasty CC Rider with Brent working the organ to good effect on both. Althea also stellar. China-Rider to close 1st set. 2nd set actually a bit tame, though the Ship of Fools and Stella Blue are both epic. Kind of a sedate 2nd set with the 2 ballads, plus Sailor-Saint but that’s okay. They add a little juice with I Need a Miracle > Bertha > Good Lovin plus a OMSN encore to send the crowd home happy. A good-to-great show, 4/5. Stealth MVP is Brent.

8/23/80 – The first things that jumps out is the He’s Gone, which clocks in at 21 minutes! Okay I’ll bite. And it’s… pretty awesome actually. Not particularly downtempo, and the solos don’t seem overly long. The outro goes on and on, it’s more than half the song, and that’s just fine, Brent and Jerry trading licks. There was a similar version somewhere in Boxzilla, but this is even more so IIRC. The vocals are tight, with Brent contributing but not overcontributing if you know what I mean, Jer’s voice tentative in just the right way, and I’m pretty sure that’s Bobby doing a falsetto. Around 13 minutes in, the rhythm changes a bit, morphing into something else, but keeping that loping undercurrent in the mix. It’s brilliant. Then another minute or so and the tempo picks up, the band makes a sharp left turn and we’re going someplace else entirely. By the end it dissolves into a discordant meltdown, I’ve never heard anything like it, and doubt I will again. Full disclosure: the older I get, the more this song means to me. Let’s leave it at that… I’m sure there are other songs in this show lol but beats me what they are. He’s Gone is 5/5, that is all.

(Okay, okay, other highlights: Big River, Tennessee Jed, Althea, TMNS from set 1, all played with verve and intensity; and Wharf Rat from set 2, not quite as intense as He’s Gone, but strong nevertheless. Beautiful solos from Jerry. I am willing to call this a great show, 5/5.)

8/12/79 –Bobby starts things with a peppy Promised Land and things go predictably from there. No surprises in the setlist, though Jerry fumbles the lyrics to Althea pretty comprehensively. A lot of Bobby songs I don’t care for in this one – Mexicali, Lazy Light-Supplication, LLR, Lost Sailor… Bobby in full warbling mode is not my jam, so to speak. China-Rider helps to right things at the end of the set, but for me it’s too little too late. Set 2 much better, with Estimated-Eyes ripping things up nicely in unexpected ways, and an echoey Space leading into an atmospheric NFA clocking in over 13 minutes, long enough to get lost in. Lots of great interplay between Jer, Bobby, Phil + Brent. 5 minutes before the first verse kicks in, love it. Overall the 2nd set is probably a 4+/5, but the lackluster 1st is only a 2 at best. Average them out and the show is a 3/5 for me.

5/13/78 – Maybe being too harsh, but this concert feels absolutely average. Familiar setlist, familiar playing if that makes sense. Nothing wrong per se, but nothing really achieves liftoff. Donna sounds nice in Row Jimmy, which is the most substantial 1st set song. TMNS cooks nicely as well, with Jerry’s final jam ratcheting up the frenzy (albeit in a familiar-sounding way). Terrapin and Playing in the 2nd set add some heft, with Phill dropping bombs through the end of Terrapin. A pleasant show, certainly not essential to my ears. And hasn’t there been an awful lot of April & May 78 released? Like 3 boxes already? A thin 3/5

3/20/77 – I can’t say how this compares to other 77 shows, my ear isn’t that attuned. To me, it sounds typically clean, tight, precise. Minglewood opener gets things started on a solid footing. 1st setlist typical until Estimated followed by Scarlet to close. Nice. 2nd set breaks out a languid St Stephen > Other One, the last few minutes of which is a downtempo, minimalist jam, and then into a long Stella Blue, meandering, with evocative vocals from Jerry. Overall a very nice 2nd set that compensates for the (to me) pretty standard 1st. Then the encore is Terrapin! Well okay then. 4/5

3/16/73 – China-Rider opener includes the Feelin Groovy jam, lots of hot playing in set 1, 20 min Playing to close it out, nice atmospheric Loser and crackling Big River (fun Keith contributions) in set 2. DS > Truckin’ > Morning Dew = 50+ min sequence. This is clearly a box standout, at least to me (depending on what is done with the compilation shows). Even Bobby’s dumb cowboy songs don’t bother me lol. 5/5 obviously.

TOTAL: 16 shows (not counting the comps or the one on cassette, which is stupid and I won’t be able to hear unless it’s available as a download. Seriously Dave, wtf?)
5/5: 5 shows
4/5: 5 shows
3/5: 4 shows
2/5: 2 shows

Overall that isn’t a bad hit rate, though I’m not sure it’s worth $600+ tax etc. I wish the cassette show was on CD; I wish the dull 87 and 89 shows were replaced with better ones; and most of all I wish we knew the track listings of the 69, 71 and 72 comps (and the filler for the other shows). If that were good enough, it would likely put me over the edge. (Discount code would be nice too.) I am unlikely to order without that info, even though my research has moved the needle from “I don’t want this and I can’t afford it” closer to “I think I do want this, can’t really afford it, maybe I should sign up for a couple new credit cards in order to get the cashback bonus and apply it…?” There are a few solid shows here I’d love to have but I’m still not sure.

Biggest positive: lots of little surprise moments in the later shows.

Biggest negative: Very little primal, which is my favorite era. Seems a huge oversight. Unless there’s a primal box on the way (which we’ve been hoping for years…) I’ll believe it when I see it.

If there was an All-Music edition without the packaging for a couple hundred less, I would order it tomorrow. They did that with Europe 72 and with GSTL, right? Here’s hoping...

Apologies for all my rambling. Hopefully someone got something useful out of it??? Thanks all, and have a grate weekend.

Cnkd - yes, both those examples you gave of vinyl releases from 1972 and 1974 respectively are great records.

6 8 69

I sincerely hope it includes the first GD portion

And the Cryptical Charlie

Really hot 🔥 stuff

Thank you archive

From a Rolling Stone article:

"Lemieux encountered a few challenges as he worked on the project over the last few years. Of the 20 shows, 17 are heard in full. But when it came to a set at the Boston Garden in 1972, he discovered that the last reel - about 25 minutes - was missing from the Dead's vault. To compensate, Lemieux included a version of "Dark Star" from the same venue the following night. A four-night stand at the Fillmore West in 1969 also had to be carefully culled due to problematic tapes."

I am in, was hoping my birthday code would've worked but it didn't. Long time no talk - occassionally lurked, hope everyone is well!

HDTracks has a digital 'album' of Scarlet>Touch>Fire from 7-13-84. It shows as a Rhino release from 3/12/25. $5 for the 44-16 version. Not bad for 31 mins.