Grateful Dead

dead.net the official site

One of the most stunning experiences I had going to an art gallery was when I went to see "Sunflowers" by Van Gogh a few years ago. I eventually found the room it was in, and noticed a huddle of people in front of a painting on the far side of the room. One of them moved..and there it was. It had a spotlight on it so that the yellow of the flowers shone out into the room. Amazing...but as I got closer, I realised that it didn't have a light on it at all - the light was actually coming out from within the painting. Truly extraordinary.
It's also quite an experience going to see his work in the Rijksmuseum in Amsterdam. I just wandered in there by chance about 30 years ago. Wow.

per usual!
Thanks, lol, never knew that request page existed. Goes to show, just gotta poke around!
Those will get utilized more now for sure…Smithers, release the hounds!

Yeah that RFK was probably too many units for what it was? Good example of doing say one of these a year at lower unit count along with a more traditional box release at perhaps less units?
But I liked RFK, (hell I think they’ve done a great job with most) because that stretch from summer through the next summer is prime time for moi, and it sounds great, but they certainly weren’t the best available, once again the ole he went to a great city and street, but picked the wrong house? ? Wasn’t it relatively pricey too?
But as we’ve all been saying, there’s a whole lot of causal heads out there who might not buy anything UNLESS it was something they were at. Perhaps explains the Giants phenomenon some what?
That was sorta my M.O. back around turn of the century: “I have more than I need so I’m only going to get shows I was at. That worked out sorta ok at first by sheer dumb luck, but I eventually realized
A) I’m not going to get many of those any time soon, if at all, and
B) I’m missing out on some killer shit!
The E72 Dark Stars are what really brought me back. Didn’t get the trunk but picked up several of the Dark Star shows Ala cart.
So started dabbling again, but mostly just wanted the music and not more stuff. Luckily or not, my cousin used to get a lot of the releases free through their business connections with GDP etc, but when that all changed with Rhino etc, they lost those relationships. So I was able for a while to get copies of stuff he had that I wanted.
But then I started getting back into it, hanging with you junkies etc lol, and next thing you know I’m a “collector”, just the thing I was trying to avoid lol.
So of course the down side of only getting copies is all the great collection stuff I missed out on!
The biggest regrets were the FW box and Winterland 73. The FW I just wasn’t very in dead land at the time and because of the repetitive set lists figured “oh hell, I have live dead already” idiot!
Luckily I have the mini version and you know who here tightened me up with copies of the box, so at least I have the music!
The Winterland 73, being fall 73, which even then was one of the tours I had huge interest in, I contemplated getting it, and man, wasn’t it really cheap considering, but I cheap skated out and have been regretting it ever since!
Some of the others I regret only as a “collector” now, though I should have grabbed that summer 78, wasn’t that another bargain box?

So yeah Daverock, the scene was relatively small until later. When I started going in late seventies there were tour heads, but not anything like what would come. I think the whole multi show run factor contributed to this. It was now much easier to just plan on a three show run or two, especially day on weekends, then to catch 5 or 6 shows, one stop at a time up and down I 90 etc.
Now I know old timers talk of how it changed throughout the seventies, especially that huge influx of kids like me in the mid and late seventies, but I don’t think it was near as dramatic as what we saw from late seventies up too 87 when it exploded, perhaps leveled off a bit, but continued at a steady pace that unfortunately just got too big to support it properly. Fame, the kiss of death…

ART: not a active art participant, but sometimes you get shown the light!
We had a great Albright Knox gallery back in the tundra, and on family vaca to Europe in late seventies, went to tge Louvre etc. Don’t recall a lot of specifics, Mono Lisa etc? But it definitely impacted my thick adolescent Beavis and Butthead dumb American skull. That whole trip would of been much more awesome if I’d only been older.
That Hopper work is cool. I’ve seen that corner diner one but wouldn’t say I was familiar. Will have to burn a fat one and check him out. Yasss great light etc. And yes, I can only imagine how much more sharp and vivid his work would be live!
Good sheet Mon,
Party on Wayne!

DaveRock - Awesome idea with the email to all the folks on the mailing list. Something that perhaps itemizes what is in the vaults (no use clamouring for reels that don’t exist), and survey to see what is in high demand. I know on the Neil Young site, as an example, he has a “Letters” column where he states he answers ALL the letters himself (I’ve sent a few, and always get a reply), and the bulk of requests are folks asking him to release this show, or this tour, etc, and he tells you if the request is even doable. I don’t expect the Core Four to answer Dead Head mail, but a quick email survey is interesting. Maybe it is as easy as Ice Cream Kid says, and we just hit up the request thread, but it doesn’t tell us what tapes are in the vault, and what condition, etc.

PS - Dave, you are right about seeing the art “in person”, but of course, work of say a DaVinci is so limited, so rare, and will not ever tour, that it would be so hard to see in person, save visiting Paris or Venice. But, should a major show make the rounds, like Picasso, or Diego Rivera/Frida Khalo, I’ve made a point to see it, and you are right - seeing a picture of these works does not do them justice! There is something about seeing The One And Only of something, knowing the artist worked on this piece. I’ll paraphrase Mr Ones al a “Music is the best”: “Art - and sports - are a close second!”

Crmcnkd - I hadn't noticed that section asking us to make recommendations, so thanks for pointing that out. Maybe, though, the only people likely to fill that out are the people who come on here-all the old faces-and we know what they (we, me) will say in advance. I like the idea of reaching people who may not come on here - maybe an email like we get telling us what is coming out- but asking us what we would like to see coming out instead. The key is, it has to be "them" wanting a survey - as much, if not more, than "us" wanting to fill one in.

Oro - thinking of casual fans of different eras, it reminds me of the fact that Deadheads didn't actually exist in the 1960s. I can't imagine early fans travelling around the country to see them. I guess it started with the invite to "Deadfreaks" on "Skull and Roses", but I would think it took several years before the travelling circus developed.

It's interesting watching a documentary on late 60's San Francisco bands called "Go Ride The Music-West Pole". The main bands on this are Jefferson Airplane and Quicksilver Messenger Service - but at one point an interviewer asks people queuing up outside a concert hall, who their favourite bands are. I was expecting them to say "The Dead" automatically-but they don't. They are mentioned but they were clearly perceived at that time as just being another band, along with the two mentioned, Steve Miller, Janis etc.

Mike - one of the great things about going to art galleries is how much more alive the originals are compared to the prints and posters you can see anywhere. I would say that going to an art gallery to look at paintings is a bit like going out to hear live music. If you go to any gallery, look at the originals, and then go in the gift shop and look at a book reproducing the originals you have just seen, the difference between the two is shocking.

Don’t forget that several people, including myself, have previously told stories about talking to other deadheads who are completely clueless or disinterested in the official releases.

The RFK Box is 15,000 copies and not sold out, although the banner says “less than 750 left”.
My Boxes are packed away so I can’t check what the production numbers are, but 15,000 seems to be the limit except for a few releases that need an AME.
I think that the last few Boxes were in the 10,000-12,000 range.

Dave’s Picks can sell 25,000 due to people buying more than one subscription and resellers.
And if you subscribe early bird you get 13 or 14 CD’s for $100, which is a pretty good deal.

For those wanting to take a survey, there is a page on this site called ‘Requests - Box Sets’.
I posted on it this morning, so use the ‘recent posts’ button to get to it, or use the search box.

I am enjoying the discussion, because I’m hoping the marketing folks, or even the interns working at Rhino, see that this is a very passionate group of dedicated fans. Oro, I really think you have made some great points, and it is hard to please everyone (personally I have never been a hardcore 60s Dead fan, because that was before they came along with jewels like Wake of The Flood, Mars Hotel, etc, and all the outstanding concert material those albums brought forth), but so much work goes into the sourcing and mixing of the music in these boxes, and the art work, and the history to the scene happening at the time, that most, if not all, are home runs.
Oro, you definitely hit the mark on many points, as did others, but collectively, as a group of fans, our mantra is “Keep ‘Em Coming!”

DR - I love a wide range of art, and even doodle a bit myself, but Hopper is definitely an artist I have held in the highest esteem, for his amazing use of light and open space to paradoxically create figures of loneliness and solitude. If I can ever get my butt to NYC, the Whitney Museum of American Art is where I plan to sleep; the guy was an American master, and really nice to hear you too see his immense talent.

Last listen - McLaughlin/Corea - Five Peace Band Live
On Deck - Ry Cooder - The UFO Has Landed

I think I fall into the category y'all are citing here. Not quite into it as much as the die-hards but wanting it all anyway. The LTTR box was more money than I was willing to put out at the time so I chose the LIA vinyl instead. A trade off decided by my having already pre-ordered Dave's #1 vinyl and simply wanting to get more vinyl. Interestingly, all the fantastic comments have me alternately regretting my choice and being satisfied with a taste of '72. DR said recently the chunk I have on Light Into Ashes is the crux of the biscuit of the box so today I feel satisfied. My collecting took a hiatus around the time the big Europe '72 trunk came out but kindly folks here are helping me fill that void. Thanks to all for keeping the fire alive. It's so nice to have reliable information from everyone here in our disinformation shrouded world.
Cheers all!

Mike, the 60s vibe, that’s a good example of what I’m saying. To “US”, the hardcore lunatics at deadnet, there appears to be an overwhelming unified consensus demanding a 60s box, but perhaps if you did a survey like DR suggests, our sample might be quite small comparatively? Just talking out me arse, but worth a thought?
You’d think they’d be doing marketing , but maybe not? Maybe they have been so fortunate to have enough of a loyal, reliable, bankable demand that they could just go with whatever they felt was good?

Personally, I think it’s good when things don’t sell out immediately. Gives some folks like P.T. etc a chance to decide or what not if they want to buy it. Or maybe you didn’t hear about it right a way, and as the bastard Murphy would have it, your busted after getting yet another of your kids braces, while the other kid smashed the car, and your washing machine broke. Like “Whaaaa???, you want $300 tomorrow morning, Dooaahh”
But these are singular micro type scenarios and we’re talking macro level.
Maybe DR is right and the nostalgia factor is bigger then I think, in that logistically, because of age, there are more casual fans from the later years than the early ones. Hell statistically, comparatively there weren’t that many causal fans in the early years. Let’s face it, for good or for ill, as time advanced there were way more causal “lets just go party and check it out folks” going to shows.
So maybe that’s part of it, when/if something that this larger population feels more akin to comes round, their more likely to buy it, then yet another older moldy from a time they don’t know or care about because they’ve never been in that deep?
I guess it’s probably a perfect storm of all the things we’ve been discussing? All these factors add up and the amount of units we’re talking about isn’t really that large, so…
But!….that’s all the more reason to deliver more, but smaller batches of certain eras!

Though I understand why a Giants type box would sell so fast, I still, do not understand fully how this box, by now, has not? Shifting market demographics and saturation is my guess though?
Just goes to show…

ThatMike - my eyes lit up when you mentioned Edward Hopper. I really like his work too. About 20 years ago there was great exhibition on in London, and it was a real treat to be able to go from room to room and get drawn into his world. You can see his influence sometimes in films -"Deep Red" by Dario Argento features a scene that is clearly modelled on "The Nighthawks". And although I can't think of specific examples at the moment, Alfred Hitchcock and David Lynch feature scenes in some of their films that look to me to have been influenced by Hopper's way of seeing things.

IMO there seems to be lots of reasons why this has not sold out. I did not buy it and I buy them all. After the so so patch jobs on the PNW box which I did not care for, I passed on this box. These are all good shows, with great shows mixed in. Call me a snob but I want all great shows with no cuts or patches. If that's not possible then I will just keep what I got from the archive or from etree, why spend that kind of scratch for shows I already have that only sound a bit better?
The format could be the reason, some only want from the era they were a part of, mostly 80's from what I gather here. I like the progression of the band from psychedelic juggernaut to what they became, but not everyone's cup of tea.
Perhaps it's the ploy of putting out most requested shows with shows that are not up to the great show that they are centered around? The original great box was a tough act to follow, seeings how the E72 tour was their best tour and it was the first one released with a massive 73 discs. With that great price. How to follow that? It's been what tptb have been asking themselves since.
The spring 90 boxes are a good example of that also, a great tour with consistently great shows released at a great price, which sold out quickly.
But what do I know? just the ramblings of an old deadhead on the first day of Spring.