Lyceum '72: The Complete Recordings Digital Download

Back to product page

Post reply Log in to post comments

April 7, 2022 - 5:43am

224 replies
Dead Admin

Joined:
April 28, 2021
WHAT'S INCLUDED:

Lyceum Theatre, London, England (5/23/72)

Lyceum Theatre, London, England (5/24/72)

Lyceum Theatre, London, England (5/25/72)

Lyceum Theatre, London, England (5/26/72)

Sourced from recordings by Betty Cantor, Janet Furman, Bob Matthews, Rosie & Wizard

Mastered by GRAMMY® Award-winning engineer David Glasser

Restoration and Speed Correction by Plangent Processes

"What fans heard in these four {Lyceum} shows was both a history of the Dead and a survey of their unique vision of American music, from folk to rock, with blues and R&B and country-and-western and Bakersfield all included, all melded together by the improvisational spirit of American jazz in a small-group format that owed much to European classical music.

The repertoire made a statement: this is who we are. And while that honored their roots and surveyed their history and evolution, the overwhelming focus was on the present. At the Lyceum, showgoers heard a tapestry of music that knit together the disparate strands of the ’60s psychedelic baroque of AOXOMOXOA and LIVE/DEAD with the Americana turn epitomized by WORKINGMAN’S DEAD and AMERICAN BEAUTY, which in many ways both continued and culminated in Skull and Roses. English fans were especially delighted to hear the new songs — for fans accustomed to bands using concerts to promote their records, that kind of generosity was striking. Those songs showed a band that was consolidating and deepening its distinctive approach to American vernacular music while still expanding the range of what that could include. Pigpen’s two originals added a distinctive flourish, but the new tunes also made it clear that Weir had emerged in his own right as a singer and songwriter, as well as showing that the wellsprings that fed Garcia and Hunter’s music were drawing on ever deeper aquifers." - Nicholas Meriwether

Imagine, if you will, being amongst the first to witness the merry band of misfits that had taken over the good ol' U.S. of A. conquer foreign lands. When the Grateful Dead first unleashed their magic on the cautiously optimistic patrons of Wembley on 4/7/72 and 4/8/72, it was with the idea they would have just these two nights to impress a traditionally reserved London crowd. It turned out to be a smashing success, and they set about locking in four dates at one of London’s most storied venues, the Lyceum Theatre, to wrap up what some consider one of the greatest tours in rock history.

On these four nights, we find the band hell-bent on telling 'em "how it's gonna be," and boy, did they ever. Powered by what Jerry called "peak optimism," they delivered a steady dose of "primal Dead," - sometimes searing, sometimes soulful, sometimes serious, but always unwavering in focus. This willful determination moved them through transitive takes on "Dark Star," to majestic heights with "The Other One," through marathon runs of "Playing," another minute, another mile. It found Phil, philosophizing on how to "put our music into a place," Bob and Jerry masterfully dueling as two of the top songwriters of their time, Bill elegantly ferrying songs to new lengths, and new members Keith and Donna Jean Godchaux adding organic warmth. And Pigpen? Well, he dotted his beloved classics - "Good Lovin'," "Mr. Charlie," "Lovelight," "Two Souls In Communion" - through set after set, conjuring up more clarity and charisma than anyone would have expected for his final few shows.

Comments

sort by

Recent

Recent Oldest A to Z Z to A

Reset

August 21, 2022 - 5:11am

#31

ArthurDent

Joined:
February 16, 2017

At least they are not "Upscaled"

My infinitely small amount of knowledge of sound manipulation means I cannot really look at a plot of a song's spectrum and the the tale of where its been and how it got to be in this shape.

Since it appears that they were 24 bit to start with, that is a significant advantage over 16 bit.

So that is a significant point in their favor, they are not CD files that were ripped and then converted to 24/96.

The upsample tag is a bit more complicated. In reading online (That makes one an expert) indicate that there are various ways to do that and some DACs do that in order to improve the sound. They can just add "zero" samples to increase frequency or interpolate to guess what data should be there.

The 32K line might be a high pass filter, basically, if there is no "audible" info in that range, kill it.

A CD rip hard lines at 22K

Here is a my Dave's picks with dB power amp rip to FLAC using the HDCD plug in for 24 bit, and it shows "upscaled"

And as a test, the HD-Tracks download of "Horses" in 24/96 shows it is "clean"

Lossless Audio Checker 2.0.7 logfile from Sunday 21 August 2022 07:50:01 AM

File: \Grateful Dead\Dave's Picks, Vol. 43 Dallas, 12-26-69\01 Grateful Dead - Casey Jones (Dallas, 12-26-69).flac
Result: Upscaled

File: HD_Tracks\Patti Smith\Horses (Remastered)\01-Gloria (Remastered).flac
Result: Clean

Sooooooo

Whiles the files are not what would be expected as a direct FLAC conversion of 24/96 material, they are in true (AFAICT) 24 bit sourced

While the sampling rate shows "upsampled", they are most likely not 44.1 kHz originals, but may have been filtered and processed.
August 21, 2022 - 1:07am

#32

dtuck90

Joined:
September 15, 2015

Upsampled?

I don’t quite understand how these can be upsamples if there is a hard cut off at 32k. If they were upsampled from the CDs there would be a hard cut off at 22k.

For there to be information up to 32k the only 2 file resolutions could be 24/88 or 24/96 (I highly doubt these were mastered at 16/96 and then padded to 24 bit). I’m guessing at some point along the chain there has been a conversion from 24/88 to 24/96.

Nowadays Plangent transfer at 32/384 so I’m sure back in 2011they would have been transferring at 24/96 at least.

Basically if these files have info going up to 32k then you are not being ripped off if they are in a 24/96 container.

If someone could chime in without saying “this is a sham!” That would be useful.
August 20, 2022 - 8:14pm

#33

Randall RIES

Joined:
October 4, 2021

Arthur Dent For The Win

Upsampled. That's all we need to know. We spoke of this earlier. Needless and frankly pointless bloat. Empty calories. So, we are left with the question: "WHY?"

I think they just put the widely and long available 4 16 bit digital shows together in a package and sold fans an upsampled bill of goods. I really think they wanted funding to produce the MSG box.

Do they need "funding"? That has to be a revenue machine.

What I mean is why spend THEIR money when they can throw some shows in a box they have already released and make people think they are getting something new? Spend tens or even hundreds of thousands for something the neophytes think is "new". Take that cash and pay their engineers and production costs.

Soon as I saw the ad and saw the word "remastered" I thought "This is a gyp." "Remastered" really means nothing. And NOwhere did they give any fresh lineage or production steps. "Remastered" is an ambiguous term, IMO. "Remixed" or "Remixed and Remastered" would have been awesome and I would have bought it myself.

You may agree with me that the surviving band members kinda sold their souls and along with that, the faith of the fans when they leased the vault. They never step in and try to right any of the many wrongs that have occurred over the years and we have seen them involved in some pretty heavy cash grabs.

You would think that if they cared all that much, this shit wouldn't happen at this late date. They pay someone to do their caring for them so they don't have to think about it.

But - you know. I have an "attitude" so I may be incorrect. But it's the fans slavish attitude that bothers me because they end up getting burnt a lot due to their endless faith and positivity and that isn't something they are prepared to deal with. The idea their counter-culture heroes are actually very much establishment and businessmen.

This outfit doesn't normally go back and re-release something. Sure, they digitize the back catalog and many of the releases have been legit. I don't remember when they have ever gone back and re-released a digital item or a package of items. Not like this one.

I am forced through empirical evidence to declare this a fraud and a fiasco at least AFAIC. My Trust-O-Meter just fell into the red with Rhino. I was wary when I 1st saw this release and now I will be doubly aware in the future. I will certainly avoid any future releases of any shows pertaining to E72. When I see the correct lineage claims and the bomb bursting back slapping ("Master tapes! New Remixes! Also Sprach Zarathustra!"), then I'll get on board the gravy train.
August 20, 2022 - 6:07pm

#34

batzye

Joined:
September 15, 2011

Comparison of CDs to Downloads

I listened to the CDs and compared to the 24/96 downloads on high quality headphones. Admittedly my hearing is somewhat degraded from years of loud music but I hear absolutely no difference. Only difference is where the tracks are cut - some are longer/shorter but otherwise no difference that I can hear.
August 20, 2022 - 3:37pm

#35

icecrmcnkd

Joined:
October 20, 2015

Thanks Arthur, Randall, Rbert, etc

I noticed a significant improvement in sound quality of my CD’s just by upgrading my stereo system from Onkyo to Cambridge Audio.

I’ve also read articles that say most people can’t tell the difference between 16 and 24 bit.
The only 24/96 download I have ever bought was when OSF released the unedited ABB files that were used for the Bear’s Sonic Journals CD (I bought the CD too).

I did buy Led Zep Song Remains The Same on Blu-ray audio which I think is 24/196. Sounded pretty good the first couple times I listened to it, but then my Onkyo Blu-ray player decided that it could no longer recognize the disc. It’s been a while since I tried to play the disc. I need to try again, maybe the player will now recognize it again (the error message is similar to when a PAL DVD is put into an NTSC player).
August 20, 2022 - 3:01pm

#36

ArthurDent

Joined:
February 16, 2017

And Now For Something Completely Expected

Lossless Audio Checker 2.0.7 logfile from Saturday 20 August 2022 05:59:59 PM

File: Q:\24-96\5-25-1972\01_Promised_Land_Live_at_the_Lyceum_Theatre_London_England_5_25_72_2022_Remaster_2022_Remaster.flac
Result: Upsampled
August 20, 2022 - 2:23pm

#37

ArthurDent

Joined:
February 16, 2017

To add to the previous info,…

To add to the previous info, I downloaded "speck" audio analyzer and looked at what the files look like

They have a hard line at about 32K with no info above that. There is empty space to 48k (-120 dB). Comparatively, a remastered track from Patti Smith "Horses" uses the full 0-48K space.

The 5/23 Dark Star has a much more spread/varying spectrum while still hard lines at 32K

too bad I cannot post pics

The -60 dB info seems to max out around 5k on the GD, and 10k on horses.

So, it is possible the files were not 96 kHz to begin with although they now are in that container.

With out looking at something up sampled, I cannot judge how they expanded the files.
August 20, 2022 - 2:16pm

#38

RBert

Joined:
September 12, 2014

Randall, there is a large…

Randall, there is a large meta-analysis (published in 2016) of listening tests involving hi-res digital audio, with about 12,000 listeners; although differences may be small, there is a significant minority of listeners who consistently identify hi-res digital (compared to 16/44.1).

If you have or can find Ozone 8 or 9, the "match EQ" will clearly show the differences in EQ between the new files and the older, previously available ones.

Now, whether all that makes a difference to you, only you can tell.
August 20, 2022 - 1:44pm

#39

ArthurDent

Joined:
February 16, 2017

The files are now encoded…

The files are now encoded FLAC at 24/96

While they may be upsampled from 16 bit, they do say "remastered"

I do not have any of the previously released CD's to compared to or the digital copy of the "steamer trunk" to compare to.

I must say the dark star of 5/23/72 was very nice, there seems like lots of dynamics and clarity between instruments. It is not as "dense" as a rock n' roll style track, so the spaciousness of the sound may merely be how it was recorded rather than any remastering of a previous release.

I have not listened to it from from high quality DAC convertor and head phones yet. Typically on that I can better tell how well something had been recorded and encoded.

Obviously - having a credible response from the vendor on the chain which these produced from would be useful.
August 20, 2022 - 11:16am

#40

Randall RIES

Joined:
October 4, 2021

Sounds the same

I did an A/B/C with one of the 16 bit shows a friend sent me. Pointless effort because both the available 16 bit downloads - available since forever - and the CD's are the same files. And comparing this 16 bit release to the former 2? Sounds the same to me. Because - you know - "remastered" isn't "remixed". It didn't even sound equalized at all. There is still the same bits of over-saturation in some spots as well.

24 bit isn't going to be some miracle sound design. 24 bit doesn't make things sound any better. The initial mixing and then mastering DOES. From the SOURCE TAPES.

The value in real 24/96 is simply having the best archival copy. That whole "I CAN hear a difference" thing has been put to bed long ago. No. We CAN'T hear the difference in any meaningful way beyond wishful thinking. You would have to be a dog or a bat.

Wanna do it right, Rhino? Take the master tapes and make a .dsf master copy of all the shows and EQ along the way. Then, release in true 24/192 (overkill) and 24/06. Ahhhh. That would hit the spot.

This package is a fraud and a fiasco.

John Perry Barlow

John Perry Barlow

Forums

Dead Store Products

WHAT'S INCLUDED:

Lyceum Theatre, London, England (5/23/72)
Lyceum Theatre, London, England (5/24/72)
Lyceum Theatre, London, England (5/25/72)
Lyceum Theatre, London, England (5/26/72)
Sourced from recordings by Betty Cantor, Janet Furman, Bob Matthews, Rosie & Wizard
Mastered by GRAMMY® Award-winning engineer David Glasser
Restoration and Speed Correction by Plangent Processes

"What fans heard in these four {Lyceum} shows was both a history of the Dead and a survey of their unique vision of American music, from folk to rock, with blues and R&B and country-and-western and Bakersfield all included, all melded together by the improvisational spirit of American jazz in a small-group format that owed much to European classical music.

The repertoire made a statement: this is who we are. And while that honored their roots and surveyed their history and evolution, the overwhelming focus was on the present. At the Lyceum, showgoers heard a tapestry of music that knit together the disparate strands of the ’60s psychedelic baroque of AOXOMOXOA and LIVE/DEAD with the Americana turn epitomized by WORKINGMAN’S DEAD and AMERICAN BEAUTY, which in many ways both continued and culminated in Skull and Roses. English fans were especially delighted to hear the new songs — for fans accustomed to bands using concerts to promote their records, that kind of generosity was striking. Those songs showed a band that was consolidating and deepening its distinctive approach to American vernacular music while still expanding the range of what that could include. Pigpen’s two originals added a distinctive flourish, but the new tunes also made it clear that Weir had emerged in his own right as a singer and songwriter, as well as showing that the wellsprings that fed Garcia and Hunter’s music were drawing on ever deeper aquifers." - Nicholas Meriwether

Imagine, if you will, being amongst the first to witness the merry band of misfits that had taken over the good ol' U.S. of A. conquer foreign lands. When the Grateful Dead first unleashed their magic on the cautiously optimistic patrons of Wembley on 4/7/72 and 4/8/72, it was with the idea they would have just these two nights to impress a traditionally reserved London crowd. It turned out to be a smashing success, and they set about locking in four dates at one of London’s most storied venues, the Lyceum Theatre, to wrap up what some consider one of the greatest tours in rock history.

On these four nights, we find the band hell-bent on telling 'em "how it's gonna be," and boy, did they ever. Powered by what Jerry called "peak optimism," they delivered a steady dose of "primal Dead," - sometimes searing, sometimes soulful, sometimes serious, but always unwavering in focus. This willful determination moved them through transitive takes on "Dark Star," to majestic heights with "The Other One," through marathon runs of "Playing," another minute, another mile. It found Phil, philosophizing on how to "put our music into a place," Bob and Jerry masterfully dueling as two of the top songwriters of their time, Bill elegantly ferrying songs to new lengths, and new members Keith and Donna Jean Godchaux adding organic warmth. And Pigpen? Well, he dotted his beloved classics - "Good Lovin'," "Mr. Charlie," "Lovelight," "Two Souls In Communion" - through set after set, conjuring up more clarity and charisma than anyone would have expected for his final few shows.

I rename all my files

Even the torrents.

That way they will be displayed chronologically by a computer or music player:
GD 1969-11-02 T01 Cold Rain and Snow
GD 1969-11-02 T02 etc…..

All songs for a given show go into a folder, named with the band and date.

No artwork included, need to use all available space for audio files (my music players use microSDXC cards, my car stereo will play mp3 files from a USB flash drive - I use AAC 320 kbps).

When importing CD’s to a computer I don’t have the computer connected to the internet. That way it can’t search and find the track names, which wouldn’t be how I wanted them and I would have to retype them anyway.

Although the tagging is…

Although the tagging is bizarre (as usual, so I guess it isn't really bizarre in the GD universe, and fortunately there are batch tag editors), the sound quality (of the 24/96 FLAC) and editing is welcome. If one doesn't care about hi-res digital and have already edited and EQ'ed your older copies of these shows, the FLACs may not be worth it. For those who do appreciate the sonic benefits of 24/96 compared to 16/44.1 I think the FLACs are worthwhile.

Latest FLAC Downloads

Just got an email with download code. Still not right. 5/26 show is missing songs. Should have been obvious since that show had the smallest size but is the longest by far. Eventually they will get this right but no telling when….

Curious about how this happened...

I'm curious about the difficulty of getting this right, from a project management/quality control perspective. I've bought three large sets' DLs prior to this one and aside from the time it took to DL them and not being able to easily merge some tracks* they were fine. I hope they find the cookbook they used for those three and reinstitute the QC in time for the MSG release.

*Issuing China Cat Sunflower and I Know You Rider as two separate tracks is the kind of thing which in prior centuries would get your name knitted, in code, by a lady sitting by a fire. Thou shalt not.

Still not right?

Maybe they should put everyone out of their misery and just send thumb drives.

No Good

I just downloaded the FLAC, 5/26 is missing songs, 7 I think. This is crazy.

Song missing from 05.26.72

C'mon folks. You are getting close. You almost made this work.

But alas...there's the issue of the missing songs from 5.26. My set is missing tracks 18 and 19.

Please try again.

Missing Tracks Flac

Finally was able to download the flac files but like others my download was missing tracks for 5/26. I was missing: 5, 6, 13, 18, 19, 26, 29. I really think they are trying to make this right, so hopefully there is Help on the WAY :)

Tracks missing from 5/26 show

Mine are also missing those 7 tracks--5, 6, 13, 18, 19, 26 and 29

The Fails Never Stop

It's a lot of material to listen through (if you got all the songs from each night.) During the weeks we all had only 5/26 to listen to it became rapidly apparent that Truckin had a huge whole in the middle.
So does The Other One on 5/24. What is really annoying is that it is a remarkable rendtion.
Another email off to the folks at Rhino or wherever our complaints go. Really quite pathetic.

PM

I will provide passage to anyone who wants the thing. I retagged tastefully and most importantly it is complete. What the suits can't get right the fans always do.

Sigh!

I got all happy for a minute. Then I discovered my 5/26 was missing the 7 songs.

Tech

Larg Hub of Tech info computer tricks tutorials and Best Tips of How to Seo,Facebook Tricks and Youtube Tricks and also Get Crack Software and Learn How to Make Money in Pakistan from Techly Hub.techlyhub.com

Are these files worth an upgrade from the 2011 box set?

So, I'd be interested in knowing whether the problem with these files has been resolved and whether the improved 24/96 quality is worth the upgrade from the 2011 CDs, which were long ago ripped to my digital files? I'm still on the fence about buying the downloads, assuming that they are finally fully available. Thanks for anyone's thoughts.

RE: DFBWM

IMO, they are not worth the money. I have been ranting about the fact that - while these are "remastered" - they are not "remixed". A "remix" AND "Remaster" would be where the gold would be. In fact, if these were right from the alleged 24/96 files from the 2011 release, they would not even be "remastered". I still believe these shows were mastered in 16/44 but I can't confirm that.

I think whatever someone wishes to "hear" from this release, they will "hear". I didn't detect any noticeable difference between the cd's or the 16 bit DD files available since 2011, 2014 respectively.

I would save my money. No wait. I DID save my money. The only gripe I have with this set is the complete botch job Rhino handed out to those who did spend their $100 in good faith.

I don't think it's safe to…

I don't think it's safe to buy the FLAC, I think there are still songs missing.

Funny

The spam post below has been there for 4 days.
And it’s advertising “Larg Hub of Tech info computer tricks tutorials” to a website that can’t even run a competent download service.
I think that spambot is the VP of IT that WMG/Rhino needs.

I Prefer the 96-24 files

I have only compared a few of the 96-24 files to their equivalents from the suitcase release but, to my aging ears, the 96-24 files sound cleaner, clearer, and perhaps less dynamically compressed. Whether you would hear a difference depends on a lot of factors, including how resolving your system is. In any event, I suggest waiting until Rhino gets the fourth show fixed, unless you just can't wait and are willing to take a risk on the 7 missing tracks.

Has anyone got the complete set downloaded yet?

I am comfortable with the 96-24 issues, but don't want to purchase until the downloads for all shows are complete i.e. all songs and the middle-minutes of Truckin'. Can someone let us know when this point is reached.

missing tracks

I compared the tracks I managed to download with the listing of the LPs of 5/26

The tracks I have are numbered 85-115 consecutively

The only difference is there is a break in the other one- morning dew on the LP (22 side B)

These were downloaded before I got the email saying they were fixed. They are FLAC not Apple Lossless

I have yet to listen to everything to see if there are gaps

A month on and still people haven't got what they ordered is not exactly impressive, but completely expected based on the past performance of these folks

Finally - Success

Ok - after keeping up on the threads and the last note from Arthur, I tool the plunge and purchased the Flac download. Everything worked smoothly and they were all labeled correctly. I compared the tracks to the LP's and they were all there. Finally, I listened to the 5/26 Truckin' and can confirm that the entire 17 minutes were there - no blank space. So it looks like after some drama -Rhino finally got it right.

As far as sound, they sound really good to me. I have not done a direct comparison to the 2011 stuff, but this sounds crisp and clear - or maybe I just want to believe that and be happy. There are bigger problems in the world.

Anyway, all's well that end's well. Fare thee well.

All Sorted

Support emailed me a new download code overnight and now I have the full 26/5 show in 24/96.

I'll see you all in the MSG comments in a few weeks for the same fun again!

Still no response to my…

Still no response to my notification of the receipt of the four shows with tracks missing.

Stuff 'em. I'll go elsewhere. Last time deadnet gets a penny of me. EVERY download is a problem. EVERY time,

FLAC 94/24 files are an incremental and not revalatory upgrade

So now that the download problems are finally resolved, I took the plunge and bought the hi-res FLAC files. They do sound great, but when I A/B'd them against EAC rips of the 2011 CDs, I found that the sound was slightly better, but only at the margins. (I played them back on a system with McIntosh power (separates), B&W 702 signatures with a Cambridge Audio Azur 851n streamer connected to an external hard drive.)

Yes, there was a bit more clarity in the drums/symbols and piano, and Phil's bass packed a tad more punch. The most distinctive increase in fidelity IMHO is in the sharpness of the vocals, particularly Jerry on his ballads (and Donna too when she signs Sing Me Back Home with Jerry). On the other hand, the 2011 mixes have 98-99% of what you hear on the hi-res versions.

If you don't have these shows, then by all means buy the FLAC files. If you have them, then these files are for those audiophiles out there who have to have the best sounding version of every show. Cheers!

product sku

081227883591BUN

Product Magento URL

https://store.dead.net/lyceum-72-the-complete-recordings-digital-download.html