Grateful Dead

dead.net the official site

thats a lot of work for little ol'me, i try to work outside restraints, surprises make life more fun!! but anyhow what is the proper waiting period, i take into consideration internet/connection down,illness, vacationing and lately mortality and of course there's that unthinkable... jumped off the bus, grabbed the ampex,strapped it onto the vincent and took off through the mexican desert night, just a black shadow never to be seen again..quote the raven, nevermore!! so, oh wise one, sage of kindness and knowledge of vine care , Oroboros of the old school, what is the proper waiting period for a reply, and how many pm's to send asking for address

hey grdaed73, sorry, not sure if i am qualified to answer but, first, if you take off into the mexican desert night, bring a flashlight. If you jump off the bus be sure and tuck and roll. Make sure vincent has gas. and most importantly wacth out for those dang ravens! we need you man!Oh... just pm the person and wait a day and then post you have not heard from them, maybe someone knows wahts up. then just bypass them and post it and they can re post. Really doesn;t have to be that complicated. Sad thing is there's never very much traffic in the desert, and nobody loves traffic. peace,pk

it depends (sorry) Whenever i sign up on a vine, I immediately PM the person in front of me, letting them know I'm behind them & give them my mailing address. If people don't do this, then they risk being skipped - they can always get back in the loop later. If you have no response within a few business days (say 2 to 4) feel free to go to the next person on the list. What I normally do is ask for the next person's address right up front, just in case, then, if after what seems like a reasonable time passes, I'm either ready to send it to the next on the list of the next next person on the list. The thing is here - paying attention. Those who don't pay attention should not hold up the vine - and a held up vine should not cause a re-seed. Re-seeds just foment irresponsibility when they are asked for too often. Re-seeding (especially from the original seeder) should be the last resort - when a vine is totally dead - not just MIA. I guess the key thing is that putting your name as the "next in line" comes with a responsibility - it's like will-call - you still have to show up & claim the tickets - otherwise, they will be given to someone else.

I usually will send pms to the next person on the vine for about a week. I am always hopeful that those pms or even posting on that thread will do it to connect. But as erickat said sometimes life happens (or work, computer, etc) and sometimes it has taken longer to connect. But not usually. For the most part people are into sending out the vine to the next person or in notification of their address to gett the vine send out to them. Sometimes stuff does happen and we have to reseed (have done a couple of those) but not as often as one would think, especially given the volume of shows and the number of viners. We have really send out a great quantity of quality shows from the Vineyard. the intent is to share and with that in mind, the sharing seems to just go around (and around). grdaed73, Hang loose, jump in, and have fun. This has been a wonderful place to meet other heads, get GREAT music, and expand my library. Hope that wasn't too much of a nonanswer, but go with the flow and enjoy. The Truth is realized in an instant, the act is practiced step by step.

Thanks Oroboros, good perspective. The sharing is what it's all about. This garden is full of good people and fun and thats all part of the plan.

can i share in his adulation?

take all you want/need. The more the merrier. The Truth is realized in an instant, the act is practiced step by step.

My apoligies, didn't mean to overlook you erickat.

Hey folks , I noticed on the new vines thread that folks are haveing a hard time with converting ,, well I recentley discovered an easy way for converting .. I have an old computer with limited memory , recentley we made a run to Staples, the external hard drives are on sale , so we got one (maxtor 500 gig).. I now copy the dvd into my external hard drive , (i have the traders little helper ) , then open hard drive, go to file and click on TLH, click on convert audio,the files show up , then click decode , after decoding is complete close hard drive , re-open it , and then you can open the shn/flac file. your computer will show both the shn/flac and the wav file converted and ready to burn via i-tunes or whatever media you use .. it`s like copy and four clicks .. I found this to be incredibley easy .. I hope this helps other folks .. if anyone has any questions on this feel free to pm me and i will do what i can to help you .. Hope everyone has a nice sunday !! peace and sunshine to all !!

Excellent post, Stuman. One thing I've been doing lately is re-cycling old ide hard drives. I got 2 cables that allow me to hook up any ide hard drive as an external IDE drive (one cable has a female IDE connector (that plugs into the back of the hard drive) on one end and a usb connector on the other. The other cable is a power cable that plugs into the 4 pins of the hard drive power connection. This allows me to re-cycle lots of old (otherwise obsolete) IDE hard drives as off-line storage devices - thus freeing up space on my main pc for downloading / copying etc... You can find these cables anywhere - I got mine for $5 on ebay - but I've seen outrageous prices at places like circuit city, radio shack, and best buy.

Hey folks,I will be out of town for a week starting Monday 11/24 and will not be vining then. I am sure I will have some goodies waiting for me when I get back and I will send them on as soon as I can. Just wanted to inform everyone of the upcoming delay in a few of the vines and let you know that they have not fallen prey to vine killing syndrome. Peace. If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is, infinite. William Blake

I`ve been having issusess with my spyware and my updates for most everything this week I am sorry for delay`s with vines .. I have got most of my problemes straight, still needs some minor work ,, however I will have all vines out be saturday or monday at the latest .. once again sorry for the delays .. please don`t worry the vines i do have WILL be on the move !! Thank you .... Hope everyone has a grate day !!

Hello people!I'm a brand new member of the forum,still trying to find direction in this place. If anyone has any hints,that's much appreciated but I hope to feel my way into the comfort of this place.I'm 40 and live on Long Island and would like to correspond with as many of you as humanly possible. I've been into the Dead since around '80 with my first show in'82. Been an avid collector of tapes/discs ever since. Have over 1000 CD"s and 1300 tapes.All Dead,and related music,of course. Mostly from recordings I've made through various sources over the years.Never got into the tape-trading scene but always willing to try new things. Seen 31 shows, the last in'95. I hope I posted in the right forum for this. Jeez,how many forums are there here!!?!? So, say hello sometime,I'm looking forward to being here a while to contribute as much as I can. Thanks!

I have been on the bus for near on 28 years. Got my first Dead album, AB, as a junior in high school. Saw my first show the next year in Chicago. It was a trip and they put me in the taping section. I went with a friend who turned out to be my brother-in-law. The big thing about him that night was he had a car! He could get us to the show. Saw many shows in the following years, but my last one was Foxboro, Ma for Dylan and the Dead. I am a journalist/librarian and live in Falls Church, VA. Our family includes two boys both smarter than either of their parents. We have two cats, Seamus and Ione, and the boys have fish. I found the Vineyard about a month ago and have been using it to upgrade my concert collection. It's been a lot of fun so far and I hope to meet others in this forum sometime. Cheers to all, especially the seeders.

hey folks,, ihad a majorwindowssystmecrash onmy computer (am useing wifes now) Ilost everythinginmy documents,thankfullyihave my music onan external hard drive but,,, Ilost everyones address !!! so please send me all your address..i hate this computer darnvista !! adress address .... Ihave vines tosendout .. wellbacktore-installing windowsonmy computer.. have a better day thenme ..lol.

wow I can`t type hadley anything without miss spelling ,hard to get used to my wifes computer ,, I stiil have a few address but i did loose mostly all of your`s ..so please pm me your addresss .. I do have vines that are ready to go out .. I have Mark`s and hal`s and a few i don`t know who`s ... Take care folks and I hope everyone has a beutiful day !!

Or Happy Holidays.Thank-you to every one here. Thanks for sharing and for your kindness and generosity. Just found this in another forum (Cut and paste into your browser) http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3rbhi_o-come-all-ye-greatful-deadhead… Peace everyone, Rick

This vine thing has really grown in the last year and a half. Have any of you with time on your hands compiled any stats, other than Badger's Vindex (which is REALLY great)?Maybe you can verify a couple things for me. I think the oldest surviving vine is May '77 east coast (started in august 2007). The first vine, Egypt 78 is now locked. Most popular vine, Summer '82 - 42 signups? Any other interesting stats? We all owe a debt of gratitude to Hunter who got this whole thing started. Has anyone heard from him lately? Peace, Richard

Hey Richard good to see you here again! Well I thought of recording how many signups there are for each vine when doing the Vindex but then stopped thinking about it soon afterwards. Markinthedark has done an excellent job of tracking all the stalled or dead vines and chasing all those responsible. He posted a list somewhere, but I forget where. Egypt 78 is locked as well as Winterland 73, another very early offering. I have not seen Hunter for ages..I wonder if he knows just what he started!!

As most of you know, I am fairly new to the Vineyard. I really want to thank all of the seeders and viners for revitalizing my interest in the Band. I was a fairly huge Deadhead between 1977 until around 1984, when both I and Jerry lost interest. I went to a show in the early 90s, and without trying to be a snob, both the Dead and the scene was not what I remembered. Since I was not a huge collector of tapes, I really drifted away from the band. When Jerry left us, I was shattered. I had no interest in seeing any post-Jerry incarnations. One day I stumbled onto this website. I started to listen to the Taper's Section and began to re-realize just how magical and special the Dead's music was. I slowly waded into the Vineyard and continue to be amazed each time I listen to new vine. I now have a pretty good sampling of shows across the years, and I continue to seek copies of shows I attended, which is really cool. I even took my son to his first concert ever when we saw Phil at Nokia in November. He is 15 and although he is more into Zeppelin and Metallica, he thought the show was pretty cool. Now, I am totally psyched to see the Boys in MSG (I hope) and Nassau (should be getting ticket through mail order). I know it will not be the same as it was 30 years ago, but none of us are, and I think its gonna be damn good. Finally, it is not just the music that has revitalized my interest. The spirit of the Deadhead community as I remember it definitely resides in the Vineyard. The people are generous, caring, funny, enlightened and interesting. They respect and appreciate the music and the Band's legacy. It has been really refreshing to see a new generation, some of whom never even saw the band with Jerry, get into the music, as well as the scene. So, thanks again to the viners, seeders, and Mary for re-kindling this old Deadhead's interest. Peace, "Let there be songs to fill the air."

my dumbass posted vines going out today , ha - i forgot it was presidents day ..lol .. everything will go out on tuesday .. i carried those vines around all day too ..

Hell, never been to this forum, I think. Re: oldest vines. There are several vines that show their topic as starting around November 11, 2007 but I think that reflects the start of the new website, and maybe those vines were carried over from a prior incarnation. Don't really know, though, I only got here in August '08. The "Whiney Bitch List of Missing Vines" is posted infrequently (near the end of the month, maybe) in the New Vines 2009 forum - figure everybody checks in there once in awhile. Be on the lookout for the new, improved WBLMV! I'll see if I can get some vine-stats together shortly, I do know there are 180 total, six of which are retired and 14 of which are "caboosed" (but may be gone). Cheers, MitD ********************************************* **************This space for rent***************** *********************************************

OK, I posted this in the New Vines topic, but thought that this was more the place for it. So I hope some of you other viners jump in and admit it. Out of the closet about being collectors, that is what I am talking about. Did I fool you? Women just don’t tend to be the obsessive collectors that guys generally are. I’ll be honest - now it is vines. As a kid it was rocks and minerals, stamps, coins, insects, models, Matchbox cars (that must date me). As a teenager it became records. As an adult it has been books, journals and magazines, more books, Fillmore and Avalon postcards, records still and then CDs and now guitars and the newest is vines. OK out with it, I have admitted my obsessive collecting compulsions. What about yours? If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is, infinite. William Blake

Collecting Live Audience Concert Tapes by the Grateful Dead! This was it for me in the late 70's to late 80's. If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is, infinite. William Blake

Well, since I have now been coined a top 10 vine slut, I should probably say hello in this forum. I am Geoff. I have a wife, 2 very small children (as of today 20 months (boy) & 16 weeks (girl). I am a chef running a restaurant in New York City. I live in Westfield, New Jersey in a mortgage, I mean a house. I love every aspect of the Grateful Dead. I am proud to be a Deadhead. I am not nor have I ever been a hippie. I was a teenage tour rat in the mid-80's. By my 18th birthday I had crossed the country 5 times. I had made residences in places like San Francisco, CA; Newark, Delaware; Lawrence, KS, Boulder, CO; and Burlington, VT respectively. I saw my last Dead show in 1990. I was absolutely torn by Mydland's header with a speedball. I dropped the Grateful Dead for this band called Phish in 1989 through about 1991. They were a Burlington bar band and I was known to haul equipment around VT, MA, NH, and ME for them for a couple of years. I broke up with Phish and went to college. I graduated in 1993 and moved to Berkeley, CA where I resided and honed my career. Jerry died when I was there. I really died with him musically. I turned briefly to Ska, Grunge, Punk and even Hip Hop. About 6 years ago I moved back to Vermont and hooked up with a lot of old friends who were all grown up with families. One of my friends is an avid collector of live Dead and had tremendous hook ups. I started listening again. It was all new once more. The last time I had collected live Dead it was cassettes and my best quality show was the worn out Freedom Hall 74 show. Now I had access to such sweet SDB's and had met some great tapers. With the internet becoming the way to get music my collection blossomed and my love is back...totally. Since my last show in March of 1990 I had seen exactly one Grateful Dead affiliated show. Rat Dog 2 summers ago in Central Park which was 8 blocks from my home. I ponied up a large chunk of change and am going to see The Dead @ MSG. I can't wait. I already have one rolled up. I just want to take this time to thank from the bottom of my heart everybody who has seeded a vine on this site that I have added to my collection. You have enriched my life more then you could ever know. I have such a quality collection that only a few years ago I could have never dreamed of. I want to close by saying also that I appreciate the freedom and ease of this forum. When a few vines took me almost 3 weeks to get out no came down on me (except for MITD, but he doesn't count:0D!!), and I really appreciate that. I hope the vibe stays the same. ********************************************************** ******************Brought to you by********************* ************Whirling Felina Productions*************** >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Creepy magaizines, Famous Monsters of Filmland, and then much later wandered into this wonderful world of the Grateful Dead. It used to be tapes (like with Birdsong, I still recall that 9-20-70 tape, hissing as I strained to listen to an acoustic Truckin') but now it is these tasty soundboards, delightful audience, and marvelous matrix. And I have been able to add in many other artists and bands (Neil, CSNY, PinkFloyd, Jackson Brown, Rowan, Sam Bush, etc.) thanks to my growing obsession and all of your fine help. My wife shakes her head at me (I haven't told her my ranking as a vine slut yet however, that will put her over the edge) and laughs but she was there with me at so many shows/roads. AND I can't tell you how many times you (MITD, & crew) make me bust out laughing. Grate tunes, fantastic friends, fine brothers AND sisters! The Truth is realized in an instant, the act is practiced step by step.

Hi. My name is pkpotter and I am a gratfulholic. I know, it's a problem...it's a good problem though. Has a nice ring to it. Searching for the sound. So you buy American Beauty on lp when it comes out, buy it again when it gets scratched at your friends party, buy it again when you scratch it yourself, buy it agian when the cover is "worn", buy the cd when the new format comes out, buy the japan import cd to get better sound, buy the remastered hdcd when it comes out, then the dvd audio when it comes out, then buy the Golden Road box set to get "the full package", then buy the rhino remaster lp, then........realize you are a gratfulholic. Has a nice ring to it.

I used to collect cassett tapes , been to to many Dead shows then I can remember (unfortunatly ,the drugs where good but oh so BAD) .. As a little kid I always wanted to be a big truck driver or a train conducter.. so after following The Dead , I took a break got clean and went to truck drivivng school . then I really got to travle ! and remember it .. I went from otr driving (over the road or long hual) to local driving in N.J. where i grew up at .. got back into going to Dead shows in the north east .. Then we lost Jerry , and I just lost it , quit my job ,sold my car, sold all my electronics ( forgot to mention that I also had a cb radio repair shop ) .. I bought a motorcycle travled the country . That really helped clear my head . Then I ended up living in Cedar Bluff Alabama for like a year or so . It was the dead of winter 20 degrees and snowing . I decided to head further south and yes I was still on my bike in the snow .. I finally landed here in Jacksonville FL. in 1996 .. at that time I only had a very small collection of music . I got married in 2003 , my wife had a computer but i was soo old school , I did`nt want anything to do with these things .. about two years ago my mom gave me her old laptop (this one) , I found Dead.net and thats it , I was finally ready to get back to the music , and I have been downloading and vining non-stop ever since !! well vining for little over a year ..my collection has grown so big that I really don`t know what I have ..lol .. I got a 500 gig hard a few months ago and it`s almost full !! not to mention everything i do have burned to disc .. with that said , I have to give HUGE Thank you`s to everyone that has helped me back to what I love so much !! Thank you Bob , who put my name on my first vine (the KFFM vine) . and thank you Tim and Rick and everyone who has seeded vines and everyone who just sent me music out of the kindness of their hearts !! This truley is the most beutiful place on the internet ! I have never met a kinder person then the people I have met here at Dead.net !! So Thank you everone !! Much love for all of you !! I wish nothing but the BEST for all of you !! Thank you oh so much .. Peace and sunshine to all !! (i know there is a typo somewhere and i can`t find it now) oh well post..

With that kind of unlimited devotion you are hereby annointed Gratfulholic Poster Boy If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is, infinite. William Blake

No doubt pk! Amongst other random things I collected...I had a really nice Rock Collection from all over the world, which slowly built into seashells and coral. Twas fun. Being a golf pro, I actually have a huge collection of golf balls of all the places I've played. It amazes me how big it's getting! ____________________________________________________ Will you come with me? Once in awhile you can get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right!

When I was a kid I loved collecting stickers. Had many a sticker book. The scratch & sniff were my favorite.I'm picturing a Pickle as I type. Not to leave out the googly eyed ones! Was really into the Castle of Grey Skull ~ Orko Rocks! As I got older I collected MAD magazine & MAD libs. Now it's the GOGD among other music & books. Who knows what the next decade will bring, but Im sure it will come with a Kick Ass Sound Track :) oh yeah, I almost forgot ~ I had a stint with Camel Cash too. I have really enjoyed reading about the thing's you've all treasured, great topic Hal! PK ~ your soo funny!! PEACE

God Bless Vine Sluts, Every Last One!

(what the hell was Orko anyway, and what was under that robe that kept him (it?) floating in the air?) My nephew was a He-Maniac back in the day. He's in his mid-20's now and a couple of years ago I was digging around in my nearly thirty year old stash of college dorm posters and found a big advertising poster for the toys of the entire GreySkull gang, battle armor, villians and all (oooh, Skeletor!). Gave it to my nephew for his birthday, he was speechless. He got the damn thing framed and it's hanging proudly in his apartment. ("scratch'n'sniff pickle stickers", that's just fun to say) ********************************************* ********Will work for blank discs & postage******** *********************************************

In case you haven't heard, if you click on "Saturn" in the Spring tour section on the main page, a picture of a terrapin and a road sign reading Hartford '77 pops ups, so rumor has it that 5/28/77 is gonna be the next official release. As most of us know, it is a great show, featuring a MONSTER Sugaree. I'd rather see Rhino release a show such as 5/12/77 where a SBD does not circulate (or even a solid AUD), but 5/28/77 is definitely a worthwhile choice.

Hi everyone. I'm new on this particular forum. I'm 40 years of age. I live in St. Augustine, FL.. I love everything about this site. My favorite GD studio album is Blues For Allah, and my favorite live album is DP's # 3. I prefer the 1972-1978 live recordings.

"Music would play and Felina would Whirl."

I clicked all over that thing the other day, when it showed up as animated. I know I clicked on Saturn. The popup's directory says "countdown"; wonder when that'll start. (just the right size for wallpaper, too) ********************************************* *********Will work for blank discs & postage********** *********************************************

Anybody else seeing the Dead at Madison Square Garden or Nassau Coliseum? i would love to meet up. Peace, "Let there be songs to fill the air."

I will be there with my wife. we will be the one who speak in French each other. Seriously (if this word allowd on that site) , send me a PM..We will grateful to meet you. Share the love.

Ok , so it`s been a bad week financially .. I just sold (recycled) a bunch of scrap metal today so all the vines i have WILL be going out in the AM sat 2-28 .. I`m not going to go back through all the threads so I`ll list them here for the folks that have not been through all the threads .. This is whats going out 10-28-84 carrier done JGB 77 PT.1 2 good 94 shows 93 by request Ladies & Gents Silver stadium 6-30-88 Obama vine 10-13-08 Brents last show dvd bit`s & pieces Damm thats 9 ... Sorry for the slight delays ..I can`t make people pay me , just no more charge accounts for anyone .... geez i love self employment , what an economy .. so sad .. mey the folks that sign up for 50 vines at a time remember this ,, it`s easy to get backed up....even for someone who`s been here a while ... Take care everyone .. Hope you all have a wonderfull sunshiney weekend !! Peace ..... Stu .....

I got flooded by vines this past week too, I got 13 of them and no free time. But have sent two of these out and have four more ready to go. Thing is lately, I have been gettin a couple a week and then whosh! starting last Friday, If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is, infinite. William Blake

6 at one time. You guys are supermen! The Truth is realized in an instant, the act is practiced step by step.

tell the wives :-), never got 6 in one day Oroboros, you may win until the new guy gets about 10 in one day If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is, infinite. William Blake

Listen at the little girly-viners complain about too many vines. MAN UP AND COPY THOSE DISCS! (I got your back on posting to the topics stu. have a good weekend everybody) ************************************** *The white zone is for loading and unloading only* **************************************

Nobody will top my New Year's Vine-a-rama - I got eight vines in that one box from Ltapilot, plus a buttload of individual vines ( with a couple of those fifteen disc monsters) -- I still suffer from CTS from all the disc switching. ************************************** *The white zone is for loading and unloading only* **************************************

Ok , I have been getting some odd pm`s that have said "hey I`m after you , here is my address" , the vines in question don`t even have my name on them ... so are some folks getting confused or are the pm`s getting messed up somehow ? I allready asked Marye abt. this and she suggested i post this ... this is just a heads up for everyone , don`t know if anyone else is having this issue or not .... Peace .....

several had similar names When I get one of those, I pm back and ask them what they were talking about If you want you can forward me the PM & I'll try to run down what they were thinking

I have two shows that I would like to vine but I cant find any info about them. # 1. Bobby & the Midnights, Reggae Sunsplash, Bob Marley Center Kingston Jamaica, Nov 27 1982 (This is part of the Nov 26 show, but the set took place after midnight, so the 27th) I have six songs from this night starting with women are smarter. Mostly I want to make sure the date is right and its never been released. # 2. Mickey Hart and The Marin County Collective, Mickey's Barn, Novato, Ca. 1972.1973 I will just copy and paste the set list. This is very strange stuff. Its a good reason why you shouldnt mix cocaine/lsd and a barn full of recording equipment. The best way to describe it is a combination of rap and a horror movie sound track. PM me if you can help. Thanks 1. Fire On The Mountain 2. Ghost Riders In The Sky 3. It Makes Me Feel Mad #1 4. You Know I Will 5. Is Anyone There 6. Night Of The Vampire 7. It Makes Me Feel Mad #2 "Fire On The Mountain" sessions 8. Fire On The Mountain 9. Speed Racer 10. Untitled 11. Fear And Loathing 12. Checker Man 13. Marshmallow Road 14. Fear 15. Ariel Line-up : 1. melton, garcia, hart, freiberg 2. cipollina, hart, freiberg, jim mcpherson 3. kathy mcdonald, mcpherson, steve schuster 4. kathy mcdonald, mcpherson, steve schuster 5. freiberg, hart, mcpherson, mcdonald 6. melton, lesh, hunter, hart 7. melton, garcia, hart, freiberg 8. melton, garcia, hart, freiberg 9. melton, hart, lesh, schuster, bill champlin 10. garcia & hart at the palace of fine arts 11. ali abkar khan, ali raka, garcia, hart 12. hart, rob stokes, lesh, melton, freiberg, hunter 13. hart, melton, bloomfield, la flamme 14. lagin, lesh, cipollina 15. melton, hart, lesh, stokes, garcia, freiberg

Found this for B&tM: 11/27/82 Montego Bay Free Zone, Montego Bay, Jamaica (Sat) Fly Away, Festival>Youngblood, Easy To Slip>Bahama Mama, Rock In The 80's, Little Junkie Girl, Jah Laughs, Women Smarter, Heaven Help>Drums>Josephine> Thunder & Lightning E: Book Of Rules here's the site where I found the info, looks like a handy reference: http://www.geocities.com/weirheads/weirworks.html Cheers! MitD (lovin' google on a daily basis) ************************************** *The white zone is for loading and unloading only* **************************************

Wondered if any of my brothers and sisters of the vine are going to any of the spring shows. I am going to the one at the Gorge. Looks like we have a group of 12 or so carpooling from Spokane to there. Plus we get to see the ABB! I'm sure I'll enjoy the Doobies too. I know we are lucky. If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is, infinite. William Blake