Grateful Dead

New Vines 2009

With collaboration from various kind folks in the vining community, our own erickat prepared this handy guide explaining how vining works hereabouts. Many thanks to all involved, and vine on! --

Dead.Net Vines - What It Is & How It Works

(We're changing some things for 2009)

BACKGROUND: The concept of a "vine" is music sharing through conventional means (e.g. mailing cd's or dvd's) with the sign-up list being on-line. The basic idea is that someone starts (seeds) a vine, made up of one or multiple shows,and sends it via mail to the first person who signs up. That person makes a copy for themselves and sends the ORIGINAL media on to the next person on the list. As more people sign up, it continues to grow and grow - hence the name "vine".

MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS: Make sure you can deal with the media format. Many vines are in audio CD format, so the minimum basic requirement is that you are knowledgeable and capable of copying audio CD's. Other vines are in DVD format, which means you at least need the capability of reading a DVD. Yet others are in SHN or FLAC format- if you sign up for one of these, you need to know how to deal with those formats. Help is readily available - just ask. Here are some helpful links:

Flac Format

SHN Format


VINE: An original physical package of music or video (cd's/dvd's) being passed from person to person

VINEYARD: A topic within (where all the vine forums exist) SEEDER: A person who initiates a vine (creates the original "seed" media) PM: Short for "Private Message" - communication provided through SIGNUP LIST: The list of people who sign up to receive the package. Note - Be careful to get the most up to date version - you may have to go back a few pages from the end to find it.

POSTING: The act of leaving a message in a forum (very important) Post to sign-up Post when a vine arrives ; Post after a vine is sent.

New VINE Process (changes for 2009):

1. Check the Vinedex (updated from time to time, but may be out of date) to make sure it hasn't already been vined. Note - not everything is fair game for vining. Check the following before vining anything:

a) The Vinedex

b) Dicks Picks

c) Other Live Albums

d) Download Series

If it's not in those places, it is generally fair game. No copyrighted material, please Taper friendly bands only. (Marye may veto a particular vine for copyright or similar reasons.)

2. Post your vine info here (without signup list) - maybe include a note reminding people not to sign-up until it has its own topic.

3. Marye creates a forum topic with the vine info & a blank sign-up list and posts a link in the new vines area (e.g. VINE XXXX Lives HERE - with a link)

4. Then people go to that vine & start signing up NOTE - to make it easier on Marye, you could also PM her with the info. No early sign-ups - Any sign-ups before the vine has its own home will be ignored


1. Find a VINE you want to sign-up for.

2. Locate the most recent and most complete LIST (towards the end of the vine)

3. Copy the list & paste it into a new message, adding your username at the bottom.

4. Post the message & PM the person directly before you with your name & mailing address. Note the fact that you signed up for this vine (a spreadsheet is a good idea) (it can take a long time between when you sign up and when it arrives, so you really need to track what you're on the hook for & when to expect it- it's a responsibility)

5. Check your PM inbox and the vines you've signed up for periodically, so you know if someone is looking for you AND so you know when to expect each vine's arrival. Remember, if someone posts that they sent it to you & that's the last we know... it will look like you were the one that dropped the ball. If you don't receive a vine when you thought it was coming, then Post

6. When the vine arrives, post to (on the appropriate vine) that you received it.

7. Take care of the media - don't scratch 'em or crack 'em or put your fingerprints all over them - clean media means a longer lived vine

8. Make a copy for yourself & mail the ORIGINALS to the next person on the list.(If the person directly behind you on the list hasn't sent you their address, PM them. If no response after 3 or 4 days, PM the next in line - but post to the vine so people know)

9. Please make sure to properly package and address the media before mailing it. We have had some unfortunate losses, due to bad addresses, packages falling apart and just plain lost in the mail. Padded envelopes are cheap - and make sure they're securely taped & properly addressed.

10. AFTER you mail it, post on (on the appropriate vine) that you have sent it to the next person on the list. It is your responsibility to remember what you sign up for and be anticipating its arrival. Post messages to the vine upon receipt and again, after you have sent it on.


1. If you did not receive a PM or email from the person who is next on the list, PM them. If no response, then PM the following person for an address and send it to them, if they respond. If they don't, PM the next person - but in any case, make a posting on Dead.Net (on the appropriate vine) about what you're doing. This is very important. It's the only way we know what's going on.

2. If you were expecting a vine and did not receive it - PM the person who was going to send it to you. In any event, post to Dead.Net (on the appropriate vine) with the circumstances, so everyone knows what is going on. It can't be overstated how important POSTING is - just knowing what is going on will prevent speculation, accusations & hard feelings.

CAVEAT EMPTOR As a friend of mine always says ... "don't sweat the small stuff" - "and by the way - it's all small stuff."

Life happens - car accidents, arrests, people get sick - people abscond - but you can't get overly upset about any of it, especially when it's all free. Sometimes vines disappear - and many times, they are revived or re-seeded by kind folk. This is the most unrestrictive & trusting vine community I know of - and the reason we emphasize posting is so we can keep the music flowing - not to accuse or condemn. If we know a vine is lost, then someone can re-seed and keep the music going. Nobody should get upset or make personal attacks over what happens here. In the past, we've had all sorts of reasons why people just disappear - and when they came back, we were overjoyed that they did. Sometimes, if a person is known to be unreliable, their name will be removed from the vine lists - but that's a rare occurrence.


Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
marye's picture
Joined: May 26 2007
Ursa's Matrix Vine

is here.

JackstrawfromColorado's picture
Joined: Jan 2 2009
I thought there were some basic "rules"?

Like the ones listed above?? Like #1 says "Check the Vinedex" .. we shouldn't vine stuff that has already been vined. I personally could care less but was just wondering. Big vines shouldn't be intimidating - it's not like you HAVE to copy everything included in the vine. Plus the mega vines lately have been lossless - which means a lot of music on 4 DVD's tops. What intimidates me is opening up a package filled with 15 CD's. :-) Burning wav files takes forever. But to each their own and that's what makes this place so fun!

"I've stayed in every blue-light cheap hotel. Can't win for tryin. Dust off those rusty strings just one more time. Gonna make em shine."

erickat's picture
Joined: Feb 20 2008
no rules - no points - no harm - no foul

mega vines intimidate some folks. Ursa asked - and i fulfilled - there is room for both the home depot approach as well as the boutique shop. I would have put out just the barton hall show in audio, but I figured if he's looking for matrix shows, I'll lump a whole bunch in. this one's not about size - it's about responsiveness. I like everything lossless - but will push out some audio stuff for folks that need it. I've also put out vines in response to requests for specific shows - there's no one size that fits all & we're making this up as we go along anyway.
If someone has requests for stuff they'd like to see come around, let me know.

So... Marye, got that Ursa vine for me?

Exploratory Data Analysis Dead's picture
Joined: May 12 2008

Thanks dstache, erikat, and Ursa Minor for this matrix project.


Ursa Minor's picture
Joined: Jul 19 2007
wow! thanks for the support guys!!! love ya all!

Howdy GD heads,

whatever you guys can put togehter...I'm not sure on what source is the best for matrix...maybe a good look at would be suffice...since a matrix can be a little tricky for somebody remastering ie. time/delay alignment...I'm not sure who is doing the best job...

but anyway, this was something I thought never to be possible in the late 80's, but now with the software and digital remastering possible, it would be really cool to see more of these out there...

I "heard" that silberman was actually running a 4 track digital reel at some of the shows and pointed a set of mics on the back speakers to capture quad mixing live at the shows...I've never seen those appear in circulation...I have seen some 5.1 mixes out there , but those are not like silberman was going to capture most likely - had anybody heard of what I'm talking about...?

thanks alot guys and let me know what you guys are going to offer so I can JUMP in

many thanks erickat and I will be seeding some more nice non-GD stuff from my collection that isn't in general circulation...I'm now going back to remaster over 500 hrs of DAT


Ursa Minor

"the warm wet world of analog audio"

dstache's picture
Joined: Sep 10 2007
77 MTX

You guys can do what you want, of course, but unless you have been asleep for the past 2 months you know that with the help of many I have been putting together the entire year of 1977. Part 2 includes Matrices for 5/4 and 5/8. And the next part, soon to be unleashed, I believe will include matrices for 6/7 and 6/9.

It would make sense to start an Ursa Matrices vine if that vine is also going to include WAV files. But if it is lossless only, I don't really see the point.

erickat's picture
Joined: Feb 20 2008
Marye, I'm about ready

So far, I've got the following 77 matrix shows for Ursa


you can call it what you will, but i'd suggest Ursa's Matrices

erickat's picture
Joined: Feb 20 2008
Here's the info for Ursa's Matrix

Matrix by Hunter Seamons using Final Cut Pro (SHN & FLAC>AIFF>Final Cut>WAV>FLAC)
of the following shows
SBD (shnid=4982):

Betty Board -- Master 7" Nagra reels 1/2 track @ 7.5ips>Sony PCM 501. Playback on Sony PCM 701>DAT (Digital Transfer) -- Rob Eaton DBX Decoding (Spring '99) Playback on Panasonic 4100 DAT>DB 924 D/A>Dolby 361's w/dbx K9-22 Cards>DB 124 A/D>Neve Capricorn (Digital mixing console)>DB 300S>Panasonic 4100 DAT>DAT>Digi Coax Cable>Tascam CD-RW 700>CDR (x1)>SHN (Rob Eaton remaster)

AUD (shnid=29303):

Handheld Shure 57's, 10 Feet From Stage, DFC>TC152>MC

Notes: 10 Feet From Stage = Great Instrument Pickup,
Vocals A Bit Lower Than Moore's Copy.
A Few Pauses But Not Many, Tape Filp After Supplication,
Flip During NFA Crossfaded And Is Barely Noticeable,
Probably Lost 3-4 Sec's,
Minimal Crowd Chatter, But With Handheld Mic's, Up Front,
There Are A Few Spots Where In An Ideal World, A Few People
Would Have Been Standing Somewhere Else.
Recording And Transfer: Jeff Stevenson


1) Warning: this might steal your face - the sound is impeccable, thanks to truly excellent sources for a matrix.

erickat's picture
Joined: Feb 20 2008
Ursa's Request

Which one would you like?


PM me & I'll snag it & put it out, but likely, you'll want it in lossless format, so I'll find other 77 shows to fill up the space on a dvd

marye's picture
Joined: May 26 2007
ABB vine, with date correction

is here.


Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
New Vines 2009