Thank you for your kind thoughts and i respect your views but of course I would like to add my two cents. There are no records from the time "Jesus" was out turning water into wine and rising from the dead. There are detailed records from both the Romans and the Jews who lived in the area at the time. So do we just discredit all these people? All of our ancestors? What about before the year 0? Do we discredit over 10,000 years of human life? All our ancestors and their entire Children’s Children’s Children? (these are our true roots) I think the modern religions make us forget about all those people who roamed the earth and how they have given us what we have evolved into today? Before the story of the "Son" there was the Sun and the Moon and the constellations and the seasons and there were rituals based on all of these realities. How can we discredit our ancestors because of the modern religions (which are certainly man made and borrowed from ancient Jewish texts and which were borrowed from Pagan religions). I have read the Old Testament and it is full of blood, Incest, and gore. Abraham who murdered his own son for God! Well guess what, if someone murdered their son today they would go away forever. The modern religions glorify a sick and twisted individual who heard voices in his head that told him to murder his 2 year old son!!! Imagine if CNN got a hold of that story! Do me a favor (this is something we all learned as children) tell your friend or girlfriend or husband etc. a sentence something from the headlines of the news. You know, something with details, and then ask this person to pass the story onto 10 other people and the 10th person will repeat this story back to you. When you finally receive the original sentence, the original sentence will have completely changed. Remember people could not read or write back in those days. Most of this stuff was passed down by word of mouth and then when the Gospels got a hold of it (400 or so years later) they wrote their versions of the story as if they were there! I am openly looking for evidence of Jesus and unfortunately even the Israeli government who has torn up all of Jerusalem looking for evidence has not found anything. They have found thousands if not millions of artifacts of the way people lived 3-4000 years ago in Israel and we even know their diets, habits, rituals, etc but there is no evidence of Jesus, or any of the other characters we read in modern religions. Religion is a skull cap on ones thoughts. You guys have proved it, I should stop asking why and stop studying this interesting part of life and stop reading about the origins and just accept the Bible (New Testament or Old Testament?). I respect religion as force of history and tradition and I even practice my catholic traditions and certainly celebrate the holidays (I love Christmas) and have had my daughter baptized and give respect to all religious places that I go to (mosques, Buddhist temples, churches) and the reason why I do this is because I think of the people who were a part of building these places just as if I visit ancient pyramids in Eritrea or ancient Indian burial grounds in North America. (Upstate NY has many). When Westerners first went to China they informed the Chinese about Jesus etc and their reply was something like, we have been around for 5000 years why has this Jesus never reveled himself to us? Then they made them koutou to their emperor who was given by their god!!! “God bless us crazies down here”
Dan the Man: I will check the book out. Can you do me a favor? I am traveling right now, can you send me in a private message the name of this book and when i am back in Europe in a couple of days i will look for it. I am always looking for some more information. I like the concept of man trying to find his own identity and his true name because that’s what i am in the process of doing. I broke away from chains of organized religion and all the stories and now i have been and am looking for the truth and i can say that i am going in the right direction. When you remove the fiction from the equation and starting throwing in protons and neutrons and the various elements that we are made up of it really makes you view all of this in a new light.
The "why" thing has been done to death so suffice to say that there is a purpose for everything under heaven (apologies to Ecclesiastes) and please turn turn turn away from so-called logic if you want what faith has to offer. If you think a book other than The Bible can help you understand where Life came from, that's cool - but do try reading The Bible. There is a reason it's the all-time Best Seller.
What's even cooler, you can get one for free lots of places. Try a local faith-based thrift shop.
As a rule, I have found that the self-proclaimed "logical" naysayers with regard to faith in Jesus and the One True God are the most closed-minded folk there be. That's not to sit in judgment of such folk, only to share my humble opinion.
It's all "cool" until you are held to account at the end, asked why you worshipped "the sun" instead of "The Son." Then it may get ugly. But it's never too late to get the real TRIFECTA.
Just cautions in regards to two things - best not to worship or "deify" such as Jerry or any parts of nature. They are and can create beautiful things, but are just the expression of the One True God. Do not confuse the made (or the maid) with The Maker.
If you want to read a really great book try "Wild at Heart" by John Eldredge. It will not preach at you but it will talk about a man's search for his identity and his true name.
Oh yeah, and The Dead deserve capital letters - cuz thurr da bets we gotz on dis hur erth. D
Whatever gets you through the night, it's alright. 2000 years after he walked this Earth, Jesus continues to give hope to the poor, the outcasts, and the broken-hearted. There was no T.V. or radio back in those days and I think if someone had come up to those historians you mentioned and said," hey theres a poor Jew and his followers wandering around and hanging out with sinners and it's claimed he does miracles and is the Messiah" they probably would have laughed and said "yeah, right, tell me another one". They also had plenty of chances to interview the apostles who were starting churches all over place and at least one even went before the King of the Romans but as far as I can tell they didn't. To them it was but foolishness. A few hundred years later the rich and powerful figured out this Jesus fellows teachings could be twisted to give them a reason to rape and pillage "in the name of God". That's been going on ever since. I happen to find the words attributed to Jesus to be the wisest and most comforting words ever written. Pretty good for a bunch of nobodies. Peace to you and Lord have mercy on a sinner like me.
but just wanted that to be said out loud, Badger. Where IS heathaafeathaa anyhow? She was fun to read! sugarcreek reads like she is from the Carribbean islands somehow.
Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone, you will still exist, but you have ceased to live.
I actually enjoyed reading sugarcreek's post. She writes a little like the missed heathaafeathaa whose posts were such fun to read.
If some gentle teasing is misinterpreted as mockery then of course I apologise!
Mocking sugarcreeks writing style!!!!! Hope she is not scared off now.
Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone, you will still exist, but you have ceased to live.
"Matthew 2 describes Herod and all of Jerusalem as troubled by the worship of the infant Jesus. Herod then had all of the children of Bethlehem slain. If such extraordinary infanticides of this magnitude had occurred, why didn't anyone write about it?
Jerusalem was the center of education and record keeping for the Jewish people. The Romans, of course, also kept many records. Moreover, the gospels mention scribes many times, not only as followers of Jesus but the scribes connected with the high priests. And as for historians, there lived plenty at the time who had the capacity and capability to record, not only insignificant gossip, but significant events, especially from a religious sect who drew so much popular attention through an allegedly famous and infamous Jesus.
Take, for example, the works of Philo Judaeus who's birth occurred in 20 B.C.E. and died 50 C.E. He lived as the greatest Jewish-Hellenistic philosopher and historian of the time and lived in the area of Jerusalem during the alleged life of Jesus. He wrote detailed accounts of the Jewish events that occurred in the surrounding area. Yet not once, in all of his volumes of writings, do we read a single account of a Jesus "the Christ." Nor do we find any mention of Jesus in Seneca's (4? B.C.E. - 65 C.E.) writings, nor from the historian Pliny the Elder (23? - 79 C.E.).
If, indeed, such a well known Jesus existed, as the gospels allege, does any reader here think it reasonable that, at the very least, the fame of Jesus would not have reached the ears of one of these men?
Amazingly, we have not one Jewish, Greek, or Roman writer, even those who lived in the Middle East, much less anywhere else on the earth, who ever mention him during his supposed life time. This appears quite extraordinary, and you will find few Christian apologists who dare mention this embarrassing fact."
i com.pleetli a gree wiz yur elokwent kommend!:-)(-:
Read the following book:
A short history of nearly everything by Bill Bryson. 570 pages (and another 100 pages of citations). This book will help one understand everything that happened from the Big Bang to the rise of civilization. After reading such books, then try to fit any of the organized religions into the equation. I was brought up a Catholic and after reading the Old Testament i realized that if there is such a God why is he then iso evil and why would i follow such nonsense. (the old testman is borrowed from Jewish texts and is full of Blood, Murder, Incest, etc) I can comment about the New Testament but i will conclude with saying that organized religion is our tradition and is an acceptable way to remember our cultures, but most of the time religious people tend to not realize this. I love Christmas and all the holidays and i even had my daughter baptized out of respect for my tradition. If we look at the facts and the evidence everyone would realize this and respect what is in front of our faces/our reality so to speak and not leave it all behind because after one dies he or she will hang in the clouds listening to an angle playing a harp. I’m in Sierra Leone and went to a place called Banana Island, long story short it is one of the largest ports used during the slave trade. If there was a god why would he allow a church (which is convently set with a perfect view of the loading docks)to bless the slave trade and oversee the slaves before they were shipped off like widgets to the Americas? If there was a god why would he allow "his chosen people" to almost be exterminated by the Nazis? I have at least 170+ questions like these. Why Why Why. The answer is that there is no fictitious being and we are responsible for our own actions here in this reality. If someone can prove me wrong please do. When i came to this realization i was scared and felt helpless, but came up with other more realistic ways to look at life and the ripple effect that i leave behind. The next time you look up at the Sun you should thank it as it is what truly gave us life and is the center of our existence. But the Christians that enslaved the Americas called the natives who worshiped the Sun Heathens, but the reality is that it is the other way around. Anyway I will shut up now and look forward to hearing your thoughts.
Oh give me a home where the buffalo roam
Where the deer and the antelope play
Where seldom is heard, a discouraging word
And the skies are not cloudy all day