Grateful Dead

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TigerLilly's picture
Joined: Jul 2 2007
;-) far-fetched!

I don't go hunting conspiracy theories, Dean. The friend who first brought it to my attention that this could be a fishy case laid out some very reasonable and well thought out points-from an economics perspective. What losing SK from the IMF would mean, how he was a thorn in the side of Sarkozy the Slimerat, even the US administration etc. :)

I am not young enough to know everything.
Oscar Wilde

gratefaldean's picture
Joined: Jun 22 2007
Such a sobering,

Nay, chilling possibility, to find oneself on the receiving end of a "he said/she said" (or vice versa) lie, especially when that lie appears credible from the get-go. Life permanently damaged, if not in ruins, it often matters little that you are innocent, it matters only that you are accused. Such an accusation against someone without enough money to mount a vigorous defense -- good luck EVER proving that you are innocent.

We'll see how the S-K matter plays out, but your original comment on this, TL, seemed a little far-fetched to me at the time. Now, not so much.

TigerLilly's picture
Joined: Jul 2 2007
Case against Strauss Kahn

seems to be crumbling. Now why am I not surprised!
I am not young enough to know everything.
Oscar Wilde

lamagonzo (not verified)
July 4th

Something worth celebrating for real patriots. Have a great weekend everybody!

I did a lot of highway traveling last weekend and didn't see one speed-trap. They are all getting overtime this weekend. Buckle-up and turn off your electronic devices and turn up the music!!! They'll be out in force starting today....

lamagonzo (not verified)
Find it ironic...

...that the Democrats have comandeered Reagan's hubris "Are you better off now than you were 4 years ago?" into their current campaign strategy. Short answer: NO!!!!

Why? Certainly not because of Obama. Because of Obama I'm not broke and jobless. I'm not better off because of the freakin' Repulsivecans and their hackneyed class-war agenda.

To use another bastardized Reaganism: "Read my lips. More new taxes on the richest 20% of all Americans and leave the rest of us the freak alone, especially social entitlement programs like medicare, medicaid, social security, food stamps and AFDC (Aid to Families with Depend3ent Children).

It isn't Obama who is starting class warfare, It is the Republicans. Let us give them a taste in Chicago next year during the Nato Summit and G-8.

jonapi (not verified)
fire wheel burning in the air

Thanks everyone for the comments.
I will reply in more detail (you'll be pleased to hear!!) next week. Am signing out until Tuesday.

Not sure if its the sudden change in weather, the blue skies and sunshine turning to mildly oppressive grey clouds; coupled with my Uncle's upcoming funeral on Monday, a wonderful old bean taken much too soon; sudden heart attack with no prior history, leaving behind a great family including young grandchildren that adored him.
But a feeling of melancholy and sadness drifting into my bones. I'm more than happy to have a joke, maybe a cheap one sometimes (!!), but would hate for my name to become synonymous with empty posts, rants that go nowhere and drip off other users like water off a ducks feathery back.
I do care, and would like to spark others to share their feelings on a range of subjects too. I sure do ramble but like a good Grateful jam, i hope the end result makes up for any meandering that was part of the journey.

Wish me well as another relative leaves the material plane.

lamagonzo (not verified)
Your opinions are most welcome here Jonapi -- I agree!

You are not alone in your opinion about "small is better". Others here have expressed the same opinion -- myself at least ten times (I've ceased to harp on the issue). I believe that most people agree but can't be bothered to do it or say they support it.

While Japan is not particularly into conspicuous consumption they, too, tend to go more overboard than Lady Gaga on fashion. Fashion! What a useless thing to spend money on! Unless you're planning to attend Burning Man I guess, a performance art festival held in the desert of Nevada where anything goes.

The main problem underlying everything is the rise of the middle-class in India and China. They like to consume as much as Americans does. The sad truth is that 1st world nations will not concede an iota of consumption and nor will any 2nd or 3rd world countries who are growing exponentially (there might be an exception I know nothing of in the EU).

As far as blaming people, I would say 90% we aren't responsible. Why? Advertising. It's down to a science and drives consumer spending. The sad truth is that we are brainwashed by people in the Advert industry who have done many, many scientific studies (talk about another waste of money!) that proof out their worth. This would include saturation advertising (you see the same commercial more than 50x in one program like a golf tournament). Then there is the 25 decibel spread between the movie you're watching and the commercial. It's freaking obnoxious! I'm curious... does TV work the same way in Europe and Asia? So, if we are convinced that cigarettes are a better option than food and clothes for our kids, then we are partly excused by the ape-like side of our mentality. And the fact that we just won't turn off our personal media devices.

TigerL; Kids today ARE more into instant gratification but they seem more capable to multi-task with electronic devices and get what they want. The bad news for baby-boomers? We fail the test every time on being more effective at multi-tasking. Our effectiveness rate actually goes down. The line seems to be drawn at about 25-30 years old. Scary, isn't it?

I imagine many people say "Well, that may be true, BUT, it certainly doesn't apply to ME!"
Yeah? Did you know there is an underground internet on the net where you can order anything you want? Sort of like the black market E-Bay. Think I'll go there right now and get some shopping done.... I need a new liver and some blotter. (Dark humor with demonic Russian laughter in the background).

Don't like the current trends? Stand up and be counted! You can march under the black flag or the peace symbol in Chicago next year for the NATO summit & the G-8. Communes are currently being formed. Hint: Gandhians like me tend to be the ones without body piercings and tattoos.

~ You can get anything you want at Alice's restaurant ~

jonapi (not verified)
What the problem with trainspotters? i counted 27 of the losers

Glad to see we both used the words "mind" and boggle" in our posts, riggsjr!! I was constructing my incoherent babble before reading your response! Great minds etc.
Seems to be a little European infiltration in this topic; me from London, riggsjr from Scotland, cosmicbadger at large in the United Kingdom somewhere (according to the police register...).
I say we take this opportunity to slag off America while we're here. Lets start with Chicago...........(tee hee TL, tee hee...!!).

But agree with everything you said riggsjr. I'm likely taking out my own frustration, as much as anything else, due to my own inability to change my ways to a high standard, even though i know in my heart what's right.
But i'm getting better, bit by bit. That's all you can ask i guess.

jonapi (not verified)
I love to go clubbing. But if there's no seals around......

I think you're absolutely right TigerLilly, which is why we have to be careful in our approach to change.
I am fully aware that my post above could be seen as self-righteous, but i do not mean it that way in ANY sense; i am guilty too. We all are. I'm a product to a certain extent of the generation i was born into (early '70's). Everyone is on their own path and will find a way in their own time. Some learn to abandon materialism when they're 12 years old, others when they're 40, some never will. Not for me to get angry and chastise.
What it must be like to be a teenager now boggles the mind. Too many choices can leave you in an endless sea of possibilities, adrift without any sense of direction. My generation were spoilt. Luckily, our family didn't have loads of money; my parents saved modestly, our holidays, if we could afford them were UK based, not abroad (with two exceptions). It used to take me months to afford a record or a magazine, apart from birthdays. No internet in those days, no Cds. You had to work to make discoveries.
But that's okay; the progression we have made in technology and medical science and more is astonishing. Therefore, we need to use it responsibly.

It's like we've lost any ability to actually THINK!! We see politicians or heads of companies or bankers or whoever that can't seem to communicate like normal people. The dreaded "management speak". Evasiveness. Empty talk for the hell of it. Therapists or psychologists are considered a natural remedy for any slight loss of confidence or stress. What happened to friends? To helpful advice from concerned relatives? (True, not everyone has this kind of help, so again, no offense or disrespect. We have created a neurotic, needy society so fair play. And of course, some people's problems are horrific). It's all me me me. No time for others, we have our own shit to deal with.
But a lot people aren't as stupid as some in authority would have us believe. People are tired of being lied to and manipulated. That is when so much anger and confusion starts to manifest. There seems to be a unilateral approach to looking for the most complicated means of solving a problem. It can be a lot easier than that.
But it takes money, compassion and time, and those things are in short supply. It takes a loosening of the grip on one's own interest. Too much at stake i suppose.

Kind of a wee tangent here but, makes me think of the film The Cove. Absolutely appalling scenes, unbearable. Made my soul WRETCH. There is no excuse for that kind of cruelty.
But surely, common sense could help shape change. Simply banning the hunting outright is pointless. How do these people make a living? Whether we disagree ethically with killing dolphins is a whole other matter (if you meat....); although it wouldn't take much to take their lives humanely. If we can do it for other animals then surely, in this day and age, removing cruelness and stress from the means of dispatching these creatures is easily attainable.
But i digress.
Isn't it possible that the Japanese Government could follow the example of various reserves in Africa and employ these hunters in a scientific capacity or in the tourism industry? Like they did with poachers? They obviously know a lot about dolphins, so why not harness their knowledge in a positive way? Taiji is known as a "dolphin town" so why not exploit that? You can't expect to cut it out completely and then say "you're on your own"; how would them and their families survive? It needs common sense, good old fashioned.
I know there are many factors involved; the Japanese are fed up with the amount of control the US has over the country and do NOT want to be told what to do out of sheer bloody-mindedness. Fair enough.
But it IS solvable. Too much to ask? Rationality takes another hike.

I know this isn't what i originally talked about but the brain has a capacity to go a bit "Neal Cassidy", carrying on multiple conversations (mostly imaginary), with multiple points of view, too many thought processes, not enough time!! If it typed it as it entered my brain it would be even more jumbled. My head a permanent jumpcut!

As you can probably tell, i don't really have any firm answers!! Compassion, our innate knowledge of interconnectedness that we have sadly buried, (but innate nonetheless!!) and the use of natural teaching plants should put us on the right path.
We must remain open to others, through good times and the bad. Only takes five fingers and a palm to hold someone's hand. (that and a wrist. oh, and an arm, don't forget that shoulder now. oh shit...).

As much as it irritated me (and irritates me still, slightly) the decision to pull downloads of Grateful Dead soundboards from, it does have a righteous meaning; Bob was right. Internet and audio files are all well and dandy but it removes the human interaction on a physical plane. Tapes were exchanged, joints passed, hands touched, friendships forged.
Who knows what the answer is? Not me. As you can tell.
But it can be fun to find out.

Check out this for some spiritual nourishment of anyone cares to. Tissues at the ready, but you'll be a better person for watching it -

Children Full Of Life" -

Part 1 -
Part 2 -
Part 3 -
Part 4 -
Part 5 -

Thanks everyone.

Joined: Nov 12 2010
No easy answer

Jonapi, your points regarding consumerism are well made. I was a Financial adviser prior to retirement and frequently came across people who had large debts and didn't know what some of their payments were for. The worst I recall was one individual who was paying £375 ($580) pm with 15 years of payments to go and when I asked what they had bought was told odds and ends!!!£67500 ($104625) on odds and ends, the mind truly boggles!! Within the room we were sitting there were two expensive gaming pc's and 2 imacs with SIX mobile phones charging and this was a family of three!
I personally have tried to cut down on energy, don't put the heating on unless really necessary, walking instead of taking the car etc. On the other hand however I look round the room I am in now at the 3500 c.d's the 300 LP's I still own the DVD's and the shelves of books and ask myself I am I doing enough. Bearing in mind I was brought up in a generation which was probably the first to have a chance to "have it all", the Baby Boomers, and also probably the last generation to have had little to begin with (outside toilets anyone!) perhaps it is us who have created the initial problem.
Perhaps we are just realising that we took the first steps to excesses and only since the advent of the throw away society do we now realise what we started. Arguably our generation is still doing it, who is it that shouts for the 72 disc box sets or complete DVD Box sets of every band we like? Yes I am guilty as charged of the above as well I've ordered every Dead box, every Neil Young, Beatles etc etc. I argue with myself that as I don't smoke or drink I need to spend my money on something, but do I? I don't know I just know that like most people I will continue to buy all this stuff because that is what i do.
I then feel all the above makes it difficult to criticize others for their perceived wastefulness, but I still do.
I just think that the fishbowl of our own little lives sometimes makes it really difficult to be truly objective as we all are the cause of the problem.
Do I want to use less power when it comes to having to cut down on my listening time or viewing time? No. Do I want Nuclear power on my door step? No. Do I want wind farms on my doorstep? Well actually I don't mind them and in a way I find watching them soothing and certainly prefer them to overhead electricity cables stretching for miles across the country. Perhaps we are lucky in Scotland as our wind farms seem to be less obtrusive than those in other countries or perhaps it is my imagination.
So after all that twaddle and gibberish I suppose my answer is the same as the question there is for me no easy answer.


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