Red Rocks Amphitheatre, Morrison, CO 7/8/1978 CD
Release Date: May 13, 2016
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Anyone ever buy the expensive Italian bootleg of this show? It was put out in the mid nineties and a friend bought it then for $69.95! Quality was not up to the current standards. Now a bargain at $30. P.S. Anyone else have their system label Dead.net as an unsafe website? Maybe it is all these strange links folks are putting in their comments??
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I was all excited to see that mine was just 30 miles away on Monday buy now the tracking is showing it 500 miles away in another state - it does appear to be heading back in my direction though - can't wait to hear it.
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Tough call on the disc 3 topic. I guess they could have thrown some filler from some other non-July show on there. I wouldn't miss out on this mammoth 7/8 show over 50 minutes of non-existant music. If you're going to do that, you may as well boycott the 50 CDs worth of drums and space that have been released.
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Old school AKG K 240 studio, a classic phone
Thanks for the reccomendations!
Currently using Sennheiser HD 202. They have a frequency range of 18hz to 18khz. Being that we hear in the range of 20hz to 20khz, they exceed our hearing range and run about $25.00....10 foot cord is a plus.
Sony mdr v6. Very common in professional recording studios and broadcast studios as the go to work horse cans. $100.
Ages ago, probably about 40 years ago, I had a pair of Koss Pro-4AA's. In a word - EXCELLENT! Later on in the 80's, I was turned onto the Sennheiser sound with their HD 480's - again they sounded excellent, a bit better than the Koss and much lighter in weight, and my ears didn't sweat with the light foam earpads.
Eventually, I got tired of headphones and the Koss Pro-4AA's were sold, but kept the Sennheisers. I didn't use cans for many years after that.
Just a couple of years ago, in 2011, I took the Sennheisers out again and noticed some wear & tear, and was able to track down replacement parts for them - a new cable & pads, via ebay.
Just last year, I was turned onto Sennheiser's HD 280 pro. Excellent sound! They are my current cans.
I recommend them.
Their drawback is that they're a closed system and my ears sweat. I forgot how much I paid for them at amazon.com. A good buy for the buck, imho.
I also have a reproduction Koss Pro-4AA, good but not excellent. They are my cans for Europe 72 CR, May dates.
Can anyone reccommend nice set of headphones, like open back type with only one cord. not one to each side. Currently have set of Sennheiser HDCD 485 that I bought new in 2008.
They have served well ,but they are not made anymore. Before the I had a set of Grado eGR60s, which had an awesome sound across the aural spectrum. These are a Chinese version of their GR60s, which have the same drivers, but every thing else is cheaper. Looking for 60 to $95 range.
overall, Weir is an integral part of the dead's genius. but am I the only one who cannot listen to many shows due to his constant playing throughout many of the tunes? did the rest of the band ignore the noise that he was producing. His playing often pushed the jams into some of the incredible places and spaces but his slide playing ruins many great shows...
Not sure what world you are living in. Personally, I have no problem with the band and the business making whatever profit they desire to make. People are employed, food is put on the table and the product pedaled is wonderful music and it's related paraphernalia. Having said that, the truth is that YES, the price point for some of their products are in fact more expensive that other bands, especially their vinyl. The band members are in fact very well off. They earned it. I have no problem with any of these facts. I just refuse to pretend that deadnet and the band members are operating with a very thin margin and that the guys are not all driving BMWs or have at least one in their garage. The Dead is very much a business and making a good profit is definitely of the utmost importance. Last year's 50th anniversary celebration's and the multitude of revenue streams resulting from the concerts, is a perfect case to back up this fact.
was all that was promised. Your gripe boils down to the 7/8 red rocks show being too short. Take it or leave it.
Dave's picks are always chock full enough. But if you are doing a commemorative/historical set of actual shows, those should not be tampered with.
first people complain that there are no complete shows (DP and Road Trips), then when they get complete shows, they complain about incomplete disks, lol.
* yikes *
Boycott is a strong word. I don't recall using it and I am steadfastly not calling for a boycott of this or any other product the band sells.
I do believe the 3rd disk is short. If it was one song/4 minutes, people'd be howling about having to pay. I repeat it is a personal decision about how much music is enough music for the price being charged. There is a lot of music on the other disks, and I may yet change my mind.
I do think $10 a disk and an hour of music a disk (give or take) is a fair price point. Caveat Emptor.
Agreed! It is a tough call and life is full of unfair.
Tough call on the disc 3 topic. I guess they could have thrown some filler from some other non-July show on there. I wouldn't miss out on this mammoth 7/8 show over 50 minutes of non-existant music. If you're going to do that, you may as well boycott the 50 CDs worth of drums and space that have been released. And if I'm going to talk about boycotting "the man" about something, there are probably a million other things that are non-Dead relate that you're getting screwed on worse in life, so...just enjoy it.
Personally, I don't find archive releases greedy or inappropriate. I do believe they've tried to strike a balance between filling a need and fair profit. They earned any profit living on the road months at a time. Life on the road isn't glamorous or easy. Not now and not then.
I do have a problem w/ the red rocks '78 release. I think the standard the band uses is $10 a disk. Again, no problems with that, it is a pretty fair price point. Check the song count and length of music on the 3rd disk. I do have a problem calling 3 songs with 25 minutes of music a complete CD. No where near enough content to justify charging for it in my mind.
Again, everyone has to value things on their own. I am - very sadly - passing on this one.
ikoiko1010 - Their prices are not higher than anyone else's, in particular, their vinyl. Not sure where this is coming from.
Thin - I agree with just about your entire comment - well stated. The only thing I would add, is that most bands from the 70s couldn't pull this off, even if they wanted to, because they don't have the amount of material in the vault to do so. The Grateful Dead was almost uniquely foresighted in this respect.
guit30 - as Thin stated, it's not the CDs that made these guys rich.
What makes musicians rich is the touring (especially from the mid 80s forward). Few musicians make large gobs of money off of album sales alone, and the ones who do are generally the songwriters.
Just the mention of the MaticPress would have been more than enough, since we all know what those are, but to post a link where we can actually buy one is going above and beyond. Some days, dreams really do come true.
...considering ALL the releases they have put out, the selling out of DPs, the high prices charged on vinyl releases, especially the record store day release that came with zero literature, artwork etc, the MASSIVE backlog, monies from merchandise etc...
The band members are making out very well indeed. If they are not, they have the wrong people handling their finances.
Personally, I'm not a complainer of their high pricing, knowing full well that everything they put out for sale is easily obtainable for free and with their blessing (still?). However, lets not pretend that the band members pull in a measly 70k a year, that the entity and business of the Gratefull Dead doesn't make a good profit and that some of their products don't have a higher price point than other bands.
With respects to everyone having a BMW, well I would expect all the band members have very nice collections of automobiles that include BMWs. These guys are no longer poor, traveling musicians hoping for to make a living for a few years. They make a very nice living indeed. Of course they earned it, but let's not be naive to think they are not pulling in more money than most and that the company does not pull in a good profit.
GDTRFB => Cold Rain & Snow from April '71 at the Fillmore.
Best Wheel => Dick's Picks 18
Garcia's official C.O.D. => Having a real good time :)
Have a couple cassette tapes from this show . Amazing (~);}. Ordered the CD'S this morning. P&L
I agree with your theme, but the details do matter. I think each band member rec's at least $50,000-$70,000/yr from the DaP alone, not counting box sets. And that's the way it should be: they make the music available, beautifully packaged, at an affordable price and make a little money for their efforts.
Here's the math: each DaP = 16,500 copies at $30 each = $495,000.00 gross, each release. Multiplied by 4x/yr = ~$2 million.
Subtract $100,000/yr for DL, $100,000/yr for JN and $100,000/yr total for all other persons' salaries (artwork, admin). That leaves $1.7 mn. Subtract total production output of 200,000 CDs (3x 16,500 x 4x/yr), each costing ~$2/each. (Oh,add 16,500 for the bonus disc = 216,500 discs @ $2 each = ~$433,000.
That leaves $1.27 mn. Songwriting credits cost another $0.3 mn, leaving $1 mn for Rhino and band to split. Say 7 band members/estates split $0.5 mn = ~$70,000/yr.
Now, to the point about whether they should, if they're deserving, etc. They're pulling in $70k/yr for the work they did over the past 50 yrs? That's barely a pension.
Meanwhile, the vault series would not exist if they didn't turn a profit. And part of the reason I buy DaP, GarciaLive, etc. is to support the success of the vault release program, which means it will continue.
Just suggesting a) the boys should make $$ on this series, b) that they do make $$ on this series, and c) that the series needs to make money to continue.
An hour+ (one disc) of killer rock 'n roll for ~$9-10? I'll take it. And would be thrilled to learn that the boys make $$ off me. Since I bought my first GD ticket for like $3.50 (fall '72), I've always felt I got more than my money's worth. As well as more than I bargained for!
Just heard the second set yesterday. It actually starts with Samson and Delilah on Disc 1. This has got to be one of the best sets I have heard in a long, long time. This is a fabulous.
Popmarket, a site that sells discount newly released vinyl, is having a one day sale preorder for Truckin' Up to Buffalo on vinyl. It's $40 off today:
The foul: email announcement has a photo of the band with Vince.
Just got my Red Rocks 7/8/78 today. It is as promised, awesome. I really like the first disc, I'm listening to the second disc now thru my headphones. Great version of The Other One. I have good Headphones, but today, Disc one seemed to sound better on my stereo speakers. Garcia is playing some awesome guitar,very creative . Lovin' this Eyes Of the World. Well, let me groove.
I ordered the Show thru Amazon and it should be here anyday. Can't Wait. Nothing like a Betty Board. I have been listening to Betty Boards on the internet archive, there are like 34 Betty Boards on the archive.
I've always frowned on throat tats but the skull on the packaging is well worth consideration.
anybody have problems with importing disc 1 7-1-78?
Peter Tosh and multiple trips to Red Rocks, sounds like a blast
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Thanks for your story Oroborus! Takes me back . . .
I graduated high school in Philly in the spring of '78. I had seen some shows, one in '74 at the Spectrum, a few of the '76 theater shows, and then '77 (including Englishtown) and spring of '78 and was completely and utterly on the bus. Two days after graduation, I headed to Boulder with a friend, to spend some time on my way to college in Berkeley in the fall.
When we arrived our Boulder friends were brimming with excitement - after years of seeing concerts at Red Rocks and thinking how awesome it would be if the Dead would play there - they were! The shows were just a couple of weeks away and they had tickets for us! Wow - I had never seen Red Rocks but had heard all about it. Expectations were running high.
We headed down on the 7th and I was awestruck at the beauty of the venue. Towering walls of rock, with super steep rows of seating rising up between the rocks, it was all perched on the edge of the front range with a view forever out over the plains to the East, over Denver and on to Kansas. We were there in the afternoon and a deadhead was sitting down in front of the stage softly playing a guitar, and as we climbed high to the top of the seats we could hear him as though he was right next to us, due to the amazing acoustics of the rocks. Then a friend went down and spoke quietly, and we could also hear him all the way up top.
We managed to get seats both nights about tenth row center and the shows speak for themselves. Friday was oh so fun and the crowd was oh so into it. But Saturday - that was one of those truly special nights where the band was clearly in another zone, where everything they played was beyond description and every song was a version for the ages! I remember Bill Walton on crutches dancing next to the stage . . . and I remember as it got dark how the lights from Denver and the plains to the east twinkled above the band and the rock immediately behind them And that was my welcome to the West, Philly boy.
And what we didn't appreciate at the time was the beautiful weather - sure there was some typical front range lightening at times, but nothing like some of the subsequent years (read on).
Side note: I took the Grey Rabbit hippie bus from Berkeley to Red Rocks the next year, in August of '79. Well due to the bus we missed the first show when my friend had gotten me a backstage pass - argh! The next two nights were rained out and held at McNichols arena, which pretty much sucks when you came for Red Rocks and have an unused backstage laminate in your pocket. I still have it too - with a Shakedown Street logo on it.
However, I met a lot of great deadhead friends on that bus and have lots of photos in my album. It was a great trip with great stories, and many new friends that I would see at shows and at homes over the next ten or more years.
Another side note - I went back in '83, I think, when it rained and they played every song with "rain" lyrics (including of course "I'd shine my light through the cool Colorado rain . . .") We called that year "Wet Rocks." They sold cheap yellow ponchos at the event and many people were wearing them. Later the fall I was ushering a Peter Tosh show in San Francisco (Bill graham's Kabuki nightclub). Bob and Bill and Mickey were there in a box seat, so i chatted with them between the early and late show as we smoked a joint together. I mentioned to Billy the pouring rain at Red Rocks and he commented on how weird it was to look out at that steep wall of people in the tiers of seats, seemingly all wearing yellow ponchos!
I was all excited to see that mine was just 30 miles away on Monday buy now the tracking is showing it 500 miles away in another state - it does appear to be heading back in my direction though - can't wait to hear it.
I got mine in the mail yesterday. 78 has never been a year I delved into too much, as 77 was always the year that offered more in terms of consistent playing. That being said I had bootlegs of these shows (7/7/78 as well) and I always liked these shows. Having the Betty Board back in the vault and then giving this a proper release is awesome. In my opinion, DL and Rhino have been nothing short of absolute Jedi Masters when it comes to releasing shows. I used argue rather passionately and in hindsight unnecessarily, about the need to release complete shows over compilations. I further argued that the best shows should be released. Well, DL and the crew at Rhino have done just that. Ever since the RT series ended, they have been putting out everything I could every dream of. All of the Europe 72 shows, the May 77 box, Veneta 72, Formerly the Warlocks box, Spring 90, and all of Dave's Picks. Of course there is more, but my point is that 7/8/78 is show is a good show that falls into the category of one that should have been released. The best of all of this, is that many of us have had the bootlegs from the past or have heard many shows in other formats prior to the release. So we really have the power to pick and choose which shows to get, and sometimes yes, what we can afford. I feel very spoiled yet also very thankful for what DL and Rhino have released. Can't wait for more.
Guit 30 - It's very easy to calculate the money they are making! Just multiply units by unit cost. Then do the math and net out things like song rights, MASSIVE design/packaging/printing/CD pressing costs, Rhino's cut (huge), Dave's and others' salaries and general GDM salaries/lawyers/overhead (huge), THEN divide the result by 6~ band members! Start filling in even conservative estimates for those items, and it really nets out to NOT a lot of money at all. It's about extending the legacy and sharing the vault, not the money. Just pulling a profit on these releases is impressive.
I find it unfortunate when people portray this (not that you did this...) as a massive money making scheme, or assume everyone is buying BMW's with "all the money they're making". No one is getting rich on these releases, except our ears.
That's probably why other bands don't release their archival live releases. It's an extremely complicated process, and why go through all the work when the band members who would authorize release net almost no profit? High risk/low or no reward. Only those who are truly passionate about their music and their fans bother with that hassle.
I echo DP36's sentiments thanking Oroboros and all tapers for their efforts. 11/29/80 was one of my first boots - I can't imagine not having that and so many other great auds over the years.
8/6/71 is another - Best Hard to Handle ever, and the aud is more enjoyable than the SBD. That's a feat.
Hat's off to all the taper's out there who kept us sane before the boys finally started releasing all this stuff.
Really great observations about how the Dead approached their music and the settings for their performances at this time in 78. I especially appreciated your connection to their forthcoming Egyptian trip. Well-done!
This is my first dive into these shows. I ordered the box CD package, but downloaded the FLAC yesterday and today, as I could not bear to not have the highest resolution available, especially for this most heralded release. I rarely post to any thread on dead.net, but read each one carefully almost daily. You inspired me to post for a couple of reasons. The first one is because you went out there and captured history. At the time, perhaps not knowing how important audio recordings would become for such a (search for a word... epic, iconic, life changing) group of musicians affectionately known as The Grateful Dead. I belong to a huge growing group of humans that are indebted to you and Mr. Wagner et al. The audience recordings of Grateful Dead shows hold such a special place in my heart. Teleporting me to another place and space in time where my soul lives can not always be done with the crispy soundboards. Betty Cantor is an anomoly. Her recordings speak to me the way that yours and others that have taped speak to me. Every personally taped show is a time capsule that I hold in my heart as a treasure regardless of what many may deem high / low quality. It's a fossil. Perhaps that's the History major in me. Truth be told I teach special education high school science and math. But on to my the second reason of you inspiring me to post on this grand evening. This one speaks to the historical nature in me. Nothing beats first hand accounts of history. You were there; you got the Nak in! The way in which you got your gear in is as entertaining as the way you penned your liner notes. I'm grateful to have people like you that enrich the listening experience tenfold. Thank you for sharing. Sincerely. It means more than I know how to scribe in this box. Reading first hand accounts of deadheads at all the various shows paints the picture brighter in my mind, and I thank you once again.
Teachers open the door but you must enter by yourself.
Agree, this shipping option always sucks. Useless to provide tracking information for only part of a shipment. It does, however, show when a pennypacking vendor ships a package, it arrives 25 miles away, and they then send to postal facility 100 miles away. Oh yeah, when it gets there then it cant be tracked further. So lame and a seemingly unnecessary disservice to your customers.
To anyone ordering now, do yourself a favor and pay even more for shipping. So jealous reading all these comments about the shows, but thanks to FexEx/USPS shipping, my discs (shipped from an adjoining state) aren't even due to reach me for another two days. That's a week to cross one state border. I could have walked there and back by now.
Oh well, the wait sounds like it will be worth it.