• https://www.dead.net/features/blair-jackson/blair-s-golden-road-blog-after-brent
    Blair’s Golden Road Blog - After Brent

    I’m generalizing somewhat, but it seems as though the Dead Heads who have chimed in here on various topics favor one (or more) of five eras of Grateful Dead music: the primal psychedelic beast of ’68-’69; the ’72-’74 group with Keith and Donna, pre-hiatus; the same group, with Mickey added, in ’77-’78; the early Brent years from ’80-’85; and the post Jerry coma years from ’88-’90. (Yes, I know there are many who love all the years I didn’t mention—including me! Just go with my premise, please.)

    But you hear very little love or even much respect for the post-Brent years, especially once Bruce Hornsby is out of the picture in mid-’92. There are, of course, multiple reasons for this.

    Many Dead Heads never warmed up to Brent’s replacement, Vince Welnick (just as thousands of mostly older Heads never warmed up to Brent during his 11-year stint with the band). Vince had a lot of things going against him when he joined the group. He was banned from playing B-3 (like Brent) or an acoustic grand piano (like Keith), and was instead saddled with a rather harsh electronic keyboard with sounds pre-programmed for him by the band’s resident MIDI whiz, Bob Bralove. A lot of the timbres that were chosen for him were, frankly, cheesy-sounding—it was a couple of years before he had a decent B-3 sound in his arsenal (and it was never as full and rich as real B-3).

    Though an excellent technical player, he did not have a background as a soloist particularly, and since his younger days had not played in a band that actually jammed. He turned some people off by consistently using his MIDI saxophone sound on the jam after “Estimated Prophet” (which he had learned, he admitted, from the album version of the song—sacrilege!— featuring Tom Scott), tossing bird effects into “Birdsong” and occasionally overdoing the atmospheric textures on “Stella Blue” and other ballads. His first songwriting contribution, “Way to Go Home,” was accepted by many at first, but then lost its luster to some when it became one of the most common songs the Dead played and appeared exclusively in second sets. “Samba in the Rain” was even less popular.

    I can’t argue with any of those points, yet my experience of Vince was almost entirely positive. I loved his upbeat onstage demeanor (especially compared to Brent, who was often so dark and surly towards the end). Some of the new colors he brought to the group’s sound were cool and imaginative. I dug his choice of cover tunes—“Baba O’Riley,” “It’s All Too Much”—and wish he’d gotten to sing more. As time went on, he played better and chose more appropriate sounds. I liked his harmony singing. I am not a Vince detractor at all. On a personal level, I had the opportunity to interview him a few times (during his Dead years and after) and I found him to be bright and friendly; a really good guy.

    And there was plenty of other stuff going on in the Grateful Dead besides Vince from ’92-’95 that was disturbing/dismaying. A few of the other band members’ new song contributions were greeted with indifference and hostility by some. (As usual, it’s all just personal taste. I loved “Corrinna” and “If the Shoe Fits.” So sue me.) Poor Vince’s ascension also coincided with Garcia’s decline. The whole band tried so hard during ’94 and ’95 to make up for Garcia’s lapses, some of which were drug-related but also affected by his obvious physical deterioration. The lack of precision in his playing was partly from losing feeling in his fingers due to his ongoing struggle with diabetes. His heart disease contributed to his brain not getting enough oxygen. You know the whole grim story.

    But through it all, the band gamely persevered and often rose to amazing heights. A show in which Garcia seemed spaced and/or distracted for long stretches might have an incredible “Wharf Rat” or a killer “Scarlet-Fire.” There were beautiful and moving versions of late-period gems such as “Lazy River Road,” “So Many Roads” and “Days Between.” Sometimes the chemistry and interaction among everyone except Jerry was enough to elevate a show. Remember that period when a bunch of the band members got into yoga and suddenly seemed to connect in special ways?

    It was also a period when thousands upon thousands of new Dead Heads fell in love with the band for many of the same reasons us older fans did. So, we can sit here and be all critical and nitpicky (for good reason!), but it obviously still worked on some level; that essential Grateful Dead X-factor still had the power to reel in newbies until the bitter end—and to occasionally satiate old-timers like yours truly, too.

    Two of the last three shows I saw—at Shoreline Amphitheatre in early June ’95—left me feeling hopeful and optimistic about the future of the band. Even with all the horror stories emanating from the road on that grisly, nightmarish summer of ’95 jaunt (the “Death Tour” we called it, even before Jerry died), when word came down that Jerry had gone into rehab shortly after the final show in Chicago, I figured the next Grateful Dead renaissance was right around the corner. (Believe it or not, I never had that feeling of impending doom that so many of you did in ’94-’95. I’ve always been an optimist to a fault.) Alas, it was not to be.

    Tell us about some of your experiences of the post-Brent era. I’d love to hear about the shows that you enjoyed and that you think we should check out (Boston Garden 10/1/94 is loved by many, for instance, as are the two Salt Lake City ’95 shows and various Las Vegas shows from the ’90s). And if you hated everything post-Brent, tell us why. Would you buy CDs of a ’94 or ’95 show, or should David Lemieux stick to earlier years? How do you feel about the few Dick’s Picks and Road Trips releases that have come from the final era?

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    Daz
    4 years 3 months ago
    Post Brent

    The last few months I have purchased the Saint of Circumstance 6/17/91 (would have acquired the box if finances allowed) and the Ready or Not release. Both are my first post-Brent acquisitions. Both are a total delight. I've now been hitting up post-Brent online stuff. Wow. All the years I simply didn't bother, contempt without any investigation, were a waste. As with all line-ups everyone does their job spectacularly. Due to my age I come into the Dead's music with Brent in the hot seat. It took a while for me to even warm to Keith when I went backwards. Nowadays I'm all over any era, enjoying the differences and forever grateful to each of the musicians who participated. In fact, with so much early Dead already released a few later gigs would be great. Perhaps someone might have a word with David... more later gigs and a few earlier Brent era releases wouldn't go amiss.

  • Frank Barton
    5 years 9 months ago
    ATL
    3/30/94. Final Dark Star. Solid show, top to bottom. Seattle 95. Buffalo 6/13/93.
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    LongGoneDaddy
    10 years 6 months ago
    lights
    the best thing about Corrina where the awesome purple lights that accompanied the song. Musically though, it was lukewarm, unless you were a huge Bobby "lost sailor" person...
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I’m generalizing somewhat, but it seems as though the Dead Heads who have chimed in here on various topics favor one (or more) of five eras of Grateful Dead music: the primal psychedelic beast of ’68-’69; the ’72-’74 group with Keith and Donna, pre-hiatus; the same group, with Mickey added, in ’77-’78; the early Brent years from ’80-’85; and the post Jerry coma years from ’88-’90. (Yes, I know there are many who love all the years I didn’t mention—including me! Just go with my premise, please.)

But you hear very little love or even much respect for the post-Brent years, especially once Bruce Hornsby is out of the picture in mid-’92. There are, of course, multiple reasons for this.

Many Dead Heads never warmed up to Brent’s replacement, Vince Welnick (just as thousands of mostly older Heads never warmed up to Brent during his 11-year stint with the band). Vince had a lot of things going against him when he joined the group. He was banned from playing B-3 (like Brent) or an acoustic grand piano (like Keith), and was instead saddled with a rather harsh electronic keyboard with sounds pre-programmed for him by the band’s resident MIDI whiz, Bob Bralove. A lot of the timbres that were chosen for him were, frankly, cheesy-sounding—it was a couple of years before he had a decent B-3 sound in his arsenal (and it was never as full and rich as real B-3).

Though an excellent technical player, he did not have a background as a soloist particularly, and since his younger days had not played in a band that actually jammed. He turned some people off by consistently using his MIDI saxophone sound on the jam after “Estimated Prophet” (which he had learned, he admitted, from the album version of the song—sacrilege!— featuring Tom Scott), tossing bird effects into “Birdsong” and occasionally overdoing the atmospheric textures on “Stella Blue” and other ballads. His first songwriting contribution, “Way to Go Home,” was accepted by many at first, but then lost its luster to some when it became one of the most common songs the Dead played and appeared exclusively in second sets. “Samba in the Rain” was even less popular.

I can’t argue with any of those points, yet my experience of Vince was almost entirely positive. I loved his upbeat onstage demeanor (especially compared to Brent, who was often so dark and surly towards the end). Some of the new colors he brought to the group’s sound were cool and imaginative. I dug his choice of cover tunes—“Baba O’Riley,” “It’s All Too Much”—and wish he’d gotten to sing more. As time went on, he played better and chose more appropriate sounds. I liked his harmony singing. I am not a Vince detractor at all. On a personal level, I had the opportunity to interview him a few times (during his Dead years and after) and I found him to be bright and friendly; a really good guy.

And there was plenty of other stuff going on in the Grateful Dead besides Vince from ’92-’95 that was disturbing/dismaying. A few of the other band members’ new song contributions were greeted with indifference and hostility by some. (As usual, it’s all just personal taste. I loved “Corrinna” and “If the Shoe Fits.” So sue me.) Poor Vince’s ascension also coincided with Garcia’s decline. The whole band tried so hard during ’94 and ’95 to make up for Garcia’s lapses, some of which were drug-related but also affected by his obvious physical deterioration. The lack of precision in his playing was partly from losing feeling in his fingers due to his ongoing struggle with diabetes. His heart disease contributed to his brain not getting enough oxygen. You know the whole grim story.

But through it all, the band gamely persevered and often rose to amazing heights. A show in which Garcia seemed spaced and/or distracted for long stretches might have an incredible “Wharf Rat” or a killer “Scarlet-Fire.” There were beautiful and moving versions of late-period gems such as “Lazy River Road,” “So Many Roads” and “Days Between.” Sometimes the chemistry and interaction among everyone except Jerry was enough to elevate a show. Remember that period when a bunch of the band members got into yoga and suddenly seemed to connect in special ways?

It was also a period when thousands upon thousands of new Dead Heads fell in love with the band for many of the same reasons us older fans did. So, we can sit here and be all critical and nitpicky (for good reason!), but it obviously still worked on some level; that essential Grateful Dead X-factor still had the power to reel in newbies until the bitter end—and to occasionally satiate old-timers like yours truly, too.

Two of the last three shows I saw—at Shoreline Amphitheatre in early June ’95—left me feeling hopeful and optimistic about the future of the band. Even with all the horror stories emanating from the road on that grisly, nightmarish summer of ’95 jaunt (the “Death Tour” we called it, even before Jerry died), when word came down that Jerry had gone into rehab shortly after the final show in Chicago, I figured the next Grateful Dead renaissance was right around the corner. (Believe it or not, I never had that feeling of impending doom that so many of you did in ’94-’95. I’ve always been an optimist to a fault.) Alas, it was not to be.

Tell us about some of your experiences of the post-Brent era. I’d love to hear about the shows that you enjoyed and that you think we should check out (Boston Garden 10/1/94 is loved by many, for instance, as are the two Salt Lake City ’95 shows and various Las Vegas shows from the ’90s). And if you hated everything post-Brent, tell us why. Would you buy CDs of a ’94 or ’95 show, or should David Lemieux stick to earlier years? How do you feel about the few Dick’s Picks and Road Trips releases that have come from the final era?

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I’m generalizing somewhat, but it seems as though the Dead Heads who have chimed in here on various topics favor one (or more) of five eras of Grateful Dead music: the primal psychedelic beast of ’68-’69; the ’72-’74 group with Keith and Donna, pre-hiatus; the same group, with Mickey added, in ’77-’78; the early Brent years from ’80-’85; and the post Jerry coma years from ’88-’90. (Yes, I know there are many who love all the years I didn’t mention—including me! Just go with my premise, please.)

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there definitely were some great moments, though they seemed farther and fewer between. I have about 20 post-Brent shows in my collection, though most get very little listening time compared to the rest, with one exception that really stands out: 3-14-93, Richfield Coliseum. Great Cold Rain & Snow opener, a strong Tom Thumb's Blues followed by a great Lazy River Road, and then some real blah in the middle (eternity sucks, Jerry botches Touch of Grey); Corrina wasn't bad, and it sorta picks up here through Terrapin>Drums>Space>Miracle. The absolute best part of this show is the very end, starting with what is my favorite Stella Blue (the solos are soul melting!) that segues into a strong Throwing Stones and then another segue into a strong Lovelight, followed by an I Fought The Law encore, which was a great touch to end the show with (even though Jerry botches the lyrics). Besides that, the only other songs from this period that really get any play from me are the Queen Jane and Crazy Fingers from 1-24-93 in Oakland; Jerry was hot this show, and he puts his whole soul into the Crazy Fingers that night. Both 3-14-93 and 1-24-93 are worth a listen if you get the chance!

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Just remembered, 3-20-91 was another fine night. Corrycorry, your observation makes me laugh.
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get people talking, maintain interest, drive sales, etc... I appreciate your thoughts in a way but I can't help to think that I am just being manipulated to purchase a Dave's Picks after Brent era set....
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Have a little faith. The next DP is NOT from that era, I assure you. I do not clear my blog topics with DL (nor he his Picks with me).
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What Brent era set? Did I miss a release recently or is it a forthcoming? The last three have all been Keith era releases.
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WWDD. Aww- I still think WWDD is a good rule to live by. Obviously, 11/5/85 and 9/19/90 were boners. But those are the only crummy choices I can think of in, what 36 picks? The Boston 91 pick is one of my favorite shows after 1980. I havent heard a whole lot from 91, but that one and View from Vault2 seem like quintessential Hornsby shows, and unimpeachable choices. 5/6/81 and 10/14/83 also fine choices, IMHO.oh yeah, 12/16/92(DP27), another boner. But that's all, no?
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little jaded from so much corporatism lately- not neccessarily from this site in particular but just in general-
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I guess that I'm going to riff off off the last few posts I read...like the fellow whose first shows were Calaveras '87. Man, were those smoking. Brent was all I knew in a live context, having gotten on the bus around 1984 (first show was Springfield - March '85), so that was the band I fell in love with. When he died, I sort of lost interest in a way...also, I was living in places where there weren't shows, like Alaska and Germany. I liked Hornsby's grand piano when listening to recordings, but I have yet to meet anyone who really dug the accordion stuff. Back in the early nineties, there were some good crispy 'unofficial' bootlegs available (Eugene '93 and Atlanta '94 come to mind). I just don't have a lot of money to spend these days, and between the streaming selections here, and the archive, there is just less incentive to buy official releases. I saw JGB in '93, and then caught one last show at Giants Stadium in the Summer of '95. Jerry kind of laid out on the solo, but at least I got to see Unbroken Chain! The chemistry between Jer and Brent was pretty great though, as many or most of you know. It was nice seeing that Alpine show recently...more video releases and movie theater nights please!
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Vince being banned from B-3: Thank GOD they (Furthur and PNF especially) incorporate the B-3 and REAL piano into the shows again. Those are sounds essential to the GD sound, and if you're gonna play the songs, might as well use what helped cement the sound in all eras. INCLUDING harmonica, which needs to be employed more. Jackie Greene anyone? Sax synth blasphemy: this is blasphemy. I feel that sax ("Estimated") was awesome to hear again in 90's shows, and it was a nod to the original. I have always appreciated it and welcome it. 90's shows that should be released: 6/17/91, 6/20/92, 6/26/92, 3/10/93, 3/24/93, 3/25/93, 7/19/94, 7/20/94, 7/31/94, 8/1/94
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Ive always disliked the key's from the post brent era, though I have to say even brent got a lil into some of the stuff I didn't care for but I definitely still love brent! I often find when I have this conversation that the people that stick up for this era are almost completely new comers of that era. when anyone thinks I said something crazy bout that keys sucking, its almost always people who started seeing them in that era or shortly before. Never had I had a deadhead from the earlier years say anything that disagrees with my opinion to a strong degree like the people that started being deadheads in/around that era. Of course I'm sure there are exceptions as there is with most things. Everyone is usually partial to the era that they started seeing the band is, thats pretty universal, I think the only group thats (more) impartial is the younger (after Jerry) deadheads. Mostly because they have a treasure trove of recordings to listen to and they don't have personal feelings and experiences at shows they attended to..."taint" they're opinion. Taint is an awful word but it portrays what im tryin to say well enough I think. of course there are always exceptions but as a general rule of all the people Ive met. most ever single person is partial to the era they started seeing the dead in. and at the very least have a fondness for. and why shouldnt we? anyways i just never could get behind the keys from the late 90's too cheesy too much and often overpowered some of the other good stuff that was happening. to answer your question I would probably not buy it. though I may depending on the show. but as a general rule. on a side note, Ive noticed that they release alot of shows that are good but most people already have a very high quality copy of I think the last release maybe didn't have a small cut in it somewhere, and a lil bit of a sound upgrade. (some people say they got they're timing off on some of the recordings...I wont touch that w a 10ft pole right now) BUT I think if they released something that isn't in circulation in soundboard form (and there are still alot of great shows that fit into the category) you'd find WAY more buyers and way more happy deadheads who get to hear something like that never before) just a thought....its always a hope when I am waiting to hear bout the next release. so glad they started to do only complete shows!!! Why was vince banned from the b3? ive never heard that before.
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Hey Blair..Great post, as always. I was unaware of limitations placed on Vince. That strikes me as a little odd, but whatever. I could always find a whole lot of fun in just about any show. Those moments always made it worth the effort. I would agree with others that Vince's voice was mixed a little hot, ( for my taste ), but then so was Donna's, ( again for my taste ), but never to the point of ruining a show. I attended 13 shows in Las Vegas, and despite some hot days, always enjoyed myself. Those shows seem, however, to be sadly overlooked with regard to Picks, Road Trips, Tapers and Jams of the Week. I have always wondered why. One of my favorites Drums/Space memories comes from a show there with Mickey playing off a desert thunderstorm rumbling off in the distance...it was awesome. I would definitely buy a Road Trips type Las Vegas set. If memory serves there were enough moments to warrant that. I think we were all aware something was up in the spring of 95. I remember commenting to my buddy at the end of my last show that it seemed like something would be different next year. Little did we really know.
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Both have/had amazing high batting averages by me, though yes Dick had those 90s blooper releases, I stand corrected. But can you find anything nearly as good as the MSG '90 RT set? I think only a compilation is workable. Is there a reason that very little Greek Theater material has come out?
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Thank you for keeping the music coming! How about a high-value production of the Aoxomoxoa sessions!!!??? Having no control over when I was born, nor the moments in which the Dead came into my world, I was thrilled to see shows (good, great, awful, and the regular ol' night). Seventeen years since the rainbow ended on the Good Ol' Grateful Dead, I would be thrilled to travel back in time to even a rough-sounding show-- with whomever on the keys. I was not a Brent fan early on, but he really grew on me-- especially as he could rip it up on Rooster and Good Golly Miss Molly, Hey Pocky Way and Gimme Some Lovin'. I feel fortunate to see the last Tons Of Steel (Philly., '87), as that song would have special meaning years later. Plus, I missed the interaction with Jerry that made it seem like they all were having fun. There were times in which I thought the band should have packed-it-in after Brent passed, but they could still have those shows in which you were so glad they were there. My favorite Vince-era shows are Richfield, OH 3-20-94 (Cold Rain opener and Fought The Law encore (3-20-94?); RFK June '93 (1/2 Step Opener and The Weight encore-- incredible Corrina). Philly '95 when Phil broke out Unbroken Chain. Although not my favorite times for the sound of the band, I would buy a set of the last shows at Soldier Field would be important for the "story" of the band. The first night of the Chicago run had an interesting first set with all first names for the songs (Jack Straw, Sugaree, Tennessee Jed, etc., plus a solid reading of Visions Of Johanna). I would also buy a spring '82 box set. It was the last year (except for 87-90) in which I really liked Bobby's sound; the late 90s it got shrill for me. Other eras that would interest me would be '65 - '67. How about any recordings from Monterey Pop. In addition, '74 shows with Phil & Ned doing their thing-- mixed in 5.1? I also enjoy collecting shows from nights in which other things occurred (e.g., 10/4/70; the second eruption of Mt. Saint Helens in '80, Woodstock-- the Dark Star and Lovelight were not all THAT bad-- ... I love '69-early '78, but the shows were so similar that I have tended to pass on many releases. The May 25 '77 was a must get as I remember lining-up to see Star Wars at Tri-State Mall in Delaware. Not yet a Dead freak, but on my way. Thanks for asking.
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I've been generally disappointed with the post-Brent releases that I bought, such as DP27 and the '93 Road Trips release, however the '93 one has some solid moments and it's probably one of the best examples of late-era, post-Brent and non-Bruce Dead out there. Vince had a huge problem joining when he did, he was just parachuting in as a last-minute replacement on a sinking ship and never had time to develop. I last saw them in August '91 at Shoreline when they were in the 2 headed keyboard monster phase, which was kind of a novelty at the time but in retrospect that was very cluttered with Bruce and Vince excessively comping behind Bob and Jerry and when you threw in the MIDI stuff it could sound really messy. I don't think you can entirely blame Vince for his tonal palette, it sounds like it was out of his hands for the most part. It's sad because you look at many of the setlists from that era and they look pretty interesting, a lot of old tunes being resurrected and new covers introduced, but when you hear it you realize that it just doesn't really deliver, largely because of Jerry's decline and I think some indifference in general on the part of the other band members. At this point I would really hesitate to buy anything else post-Brent (other than the May or August '91 Shoreline shows which I attended) because it's just hard to find a solid show from beginning to end in the last 5 years. Unlike many others here I'm not a complete show advocate as a rule if there aren't solid complete shows; I'd consider a "best of" compilation of a tour or series of shows, placing my faith in D.L. that the best performances were culled. I still really enjoy the Go To Nassau release, for example, and when you listen to the rest of those shows on the Archive or elsewhere, at least I think the best parts were preserved other than the somewhat odd placing of the encore Alabama in between songs on the 2nd disc to maintain the Bob/Jerry rotation. As long as they don't do stuff like that, I'd think about a compilation from 91-95 but it would have to be really good. A lot of that material is, unfortunately, unlistenable and downright sad.

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SURELY you're not sh*t-canning Richmond '85...... Dude. That was a classic. Each to our own, as this thread amply demonstrates..... I'll hold up Dick's 21 as one of Dick's SOLID Brent-era excavations, and wonder what he was thinking on Dick's 6 (Hartford '83).... Disc 2 is era-representative (Scarlet -> Fire -> Estimated -> Eyes), but that first set is seriously sloppy.
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Naww, Antonjo, I won't kick 11/5/85 to the curb, yet. I just thought it was generally accepted wisdom that it was a turkey. I never heard anyone defend it. My Dead views are constantly "evolving" though, much like a politicians. I'll give it another spin- I bet I've never even heard the whole thing once, yet.....
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and the Gimme Some Lovin' is a classic. LOVIN'!!
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WTF! Wadday mean banned from playing B-3?!!!! Nobody gets "banned" from doing that! Nobody!!! One of THE best sounds around!!! Bar-None!!! Take that to the bank, and cash in!
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...July, 87/ with Dylan. The crowd...well...gave it away for me...I had some good bud, rolled a joint, tried to pass it along. The people next to me...said...'nah, we got our own". That told me volumes...It's All Over Now, Baby Blue. Never went to a dead show since, except for the Further/1996...Cow Expo. That was fun!
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In response to Grateful_Deadhead's post, speaking as a younger Deadhead who only got on the Bus when I was in high school in '05, I think we younger Deadheads are still biased but just in different ways. My first album was the Grateful Dead Movie Soundtrack, and my first studio album was From the Mars Hotel (with the CD bonus tracks), so I think it should come as no surprise that pre-hiatus 70's is my favorite era with a special emphasis on 74, and that I love Dave's Picks Volume 2 :-) . For the time being though, my thirst for official releases from pre-hiatus 70's has been saturated by the wonderful treasure trove of the Europe 72 Box Set and Dave's Picks Volume 2 (as well as the Real Gone Music reissues of the late Dick's Picks which came out while I was still getting on the bus). I would certainly be very interested in getting an official release of Vince era Dead either as a complete show or a compilation. My personal preference would be for a complete show, rather than a compilation, but I'd take either if I could finally hear an unedited version of So Many Roads given the HDCD treatment*. The reason that I lean more towards the complete show camp is that I do not always find that my tastes perfectly map onto those of The Powers That Be. Sometimes compilations can be absolutely amazing, classic examples being The Grateful Dead Movie Sound Track, Reckoning, and E72, but other times I can find myself on a different wavelength of preferences than The Powers That Be or other Deadheads. With complete shows from any era I know there will be some moments I don't especially care for, and some moments I absolutely love. That said I certainly understand that if a case can be made for compilations anywhere it would be with the 90's. While the frequency of flubs in the 90's was perhaps greater than in other eras there is more to it than that. In any other era when someone in the band seriously flubs something, or forgets the lyrics you can smile to yourself and chuckle warmly while you whisper "Oh, boys..." or "Oh, Donna..." but for the 90's every imperfection gets interpreted as foreshadowing of that August 9th. *My comment about So Many Roads is in no way meant as a shot at the So Many Roads box set, which is quite good. I just consider the fifth disc of that set to be more a quasi "studio album that never was" than a true live release.
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...that seems illogical because that's the reason why Brent was asked to join the band back in 1979; so that HE could play b-3 organ. Remember now, Keith didn't play that instrument. The Dead were looking for someone who could, who fill the music with certain fills, only a B-3 could that.
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You said, in reference to "So Many Roads" (which I co-produced with David Gans and Steve Silberman): "I just consider the fifth disc of that set to be more a quasi "studio album that never was" than a true live release." That was our point! In fact, initially we had a couple of other studio/rehearsal things on there that were removed--a rehearsal "Liberty" (the live one IS better) and a studio "Wave to the Wind," which was much better than any of the live versions (but was vetoed by Phil). Re "Banning": Vince told me that the road crew was happy not to have to lug either a B-3 with all those Leslie cabinets, or a grand piano...I don't think he was implying that was the reason he was asked to play an electronic keyboard, but it's interesting that he mentioned it. I think the other band members were hungry for some new colors, just as they had been when Keith joined and when Brent joined. Once Vince started playing a B-3 in Missing Man Formation (which I have often cited as my favorite of the first post JG groups), we saw how good he could be on that instrument. And he had his own baby grand at home that he's had for a while, so he was solid on that as well.
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Saw Vince in '98 with MMF and can confirm he tore it up on the real organ. If I remember right they did some great covers where he just went off in impressive fashion. "I Want You She's So Heavy" maybe was one?
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Hey Blair, thanks for responding to my post. As a quasi-studio-album that fifth disc is really good. It's my favorite disc of the box, and I love the gem that is Whisky in The Jar. What I was trying to say is just that it's different than what a Dave's Picks style treatment (or Road Trips style treatment) would be. In the context of the quasi-studio-album the edited "live" version of So Many Roads works as a statement of what the song is supposed to sound like, which is a very different thing than a color outside of the lines warts and all version. I would be very eager to also get my hands on a high audio quality HDCD release of such a warts and all live version, because it's a great song and has never received that kind of an official live release.
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...would make a splendid release. 3/9/93 http://archive.org/details/gd1993-03-09.sbd.miller.110510.flac16 3/10/93 http://archive.org/details/gd1993-03-10.sbd.tetzeli-fix.35215.shnf 3/11/93 http://archive.org/details/gd93-03-11.sbd.wharfrat.10383.sbeok.shnf I didn't attend any of these, but I did attend the Blizzard of '93 show at Richfield 3/14/93 after this run. At the time I was thoroughly disappointed with the concert, but having listened to it recently, for the first time in perhaps15 years or more, it isn't all that bad. At the time, I felt that the band finally showed up to play a concert when the jumped into Terrapin>Jam>Drumz>Miracle>Stella Blue. The rest of the show is ok, but I will forever feel like, after all that we went through going to that show, the crappy weather, the cancelled first night and the overall hassle, that I Fought The Law was the ultimate boobie prize for a debut. A total contrast to what took place in Rosemont Illinois a couple of days earlier.
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So I came on board as a 16 yr old in '88, and saw the boys with Brent 6 times.They were phenomenal shows, especially Nassau '90. But I have to say this: the "it" feeling, whatever that is, was still there with Vince. Bruce was awesome, but I thought Vince started to really fit in by summer '92. Yes, when I listen to '72, '74, '77 etc. I can hear the music is undoubtedly "better." But I was there in the 90s, and the band still had incredible power. And since I was there, I still love to listen to those shows, actually sometimes moreso than what most consider "peak'' years. I know, I know, to each his own, but definitely through '93 and many times in '94, they were still the greatest band on the planet. ('95? umm not so much).
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Let me first say that if I had to choose a "favorite era", it would be the Brent era ('79 - '90). I attended 59 shows from 8-26-80 to 6-28-95. 36 of those 59 shows were during the Vince era ('92 - '95). I have listened to well over half of the shows that the band played '92 to '95. A majority of which came in the form of HQ soundboard and audience master DAT recordings. The question asked by Blair: "would I purchase music from the "Vince era"? The answer is YES. Blair mentions some release worthy shows in his piece and I would agree with him on the above mentioned. I will now list some additional shows that, IMHO would also merit possible release. 6-28-92 Noblesvile IN 12-11-92 Oakland CA 6-22-93 Noblesville IN 12-8-93 Los Angeles CA 6-24-94 Las Vegas NV 7-31-94 Auburn Hills MI 8-1-94 Auburn Hills MI 4-2-95 Memphis TN 6-28-95 Auburn Hills MI Obviously this is just my opinion and there are many shows from the Vince era that I have not heard. These are a few that stuck out in my mind. The boys on an "off" night was still better than most bands on a good night. Peace to y'all !
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I am one of those who only got to see the Grateful Dead live with Vince. Although I have listened to countless shows with other lienups, with shows that can bring tears of joy to my eyes, I was one of those who gave Vince a chance to shine when he was on stage. I had the pleasure of meeting Vince in Tucson after Jerry's passing, and he was nothing but gracious and kind to this fan who just wanted to thank him for the music. His time was too short to truly become one of the members of the band, but his grief of Jerry's loss was probably as damaging as any of the other members. The Las Vegas Run was my stomping grounds, with Cal Expo and Phoenix shows thrown in. There is still my all time favorite attended show (12/9/90), and a couple I rarely listen to, but all in all, Vince's contribution to the last years of a legendary band should never be taken lightly.
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I had stopped seeing the Dead for a few years when I got on the Internet in 1993. I fell back in love when I started getting all of these new tapes and my first shows afterwards were the 1994 Vegas shows. I loved them and really enjoyed Vince. I'd never warmed up to Brent (My first show was 8-4-76). I saw 25 shows in 94-95. Very few were good all the way through, but almost all had some great moments. I thought Vince fit in real well, but was never going to have a chance to shine like Brent (I now appreciate him after all of these years) and Keith did due to Jerry's ailments. Some favorites during these 2 years were, most of the Boston 94 run especially 10/1. The 10/14/94 Scarlet>Fire. Lucy In the Sky With Diamond 3/17/95. Second set 3/22/95 (first set was abysmal). Loose Lucy during 1994 which was good due to a great Vince organ part.
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Agree with Blair's comments about moments in some shows, but whole great shows are almost totally missing. My favorite moment is the lengthy jam out of Victim or the Crime into an epic Foolish Heart on 6/27/95 with 2d place going to the stagger lee from a soldier field 93 show (did they really sample marv albert during space sampled from the intermission showing of the suns/bulls nba finals game on the big video screens?). There are many other individual moments of songs. I personally have put together my own "best ofs" from personal tapes, archive.org and etree for 92, 93, 94 and 95 subject to questions like "why would you do that" from an older deadhead friend! I would be very reluctant to purchase a full show from this era in the future. On the other hand, I would probably purchase an old style road trips of the "best of" certain years or tours if it had what I considered good versions of songs on it. There would have to be complete disclosure of the dates of the songs before hand. I also would consider a road trips that collected live versions of the best versions of the unreleased band originals and covers from this era, part of the impetus for my own work in this area.
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You could gauge the appetite for '92-'95 by making a Dave's Picks annual bonus disc be a "Best of '92-'95. Then see what prices it commands on eBay! Better than a focus group! lol
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I love this era of Grateful Dead music. I listen to this era less than I used to, but I still have an affinity for many of the shows that I saw during this time. Can't help it if I was born too late. Some shows that stick out for me in this era include 3/21/94, amazing show from start to finish, 7/23/94, wonderful vintage sounding show, 7/31/94 and 8/1/94. These shows from Auburn Hills feature some of the most inspired Jerry singing I ever had the pleasure of seeing (Lazy River Road, Black Peter, Row Jimmy, Peggy O, Stagger Lee etc.) Of course Delta Center in Feb 1995, 5/21/95 (amazing Days Between) and finally 6/30/95...that show was great. I hope that something from 94/95 will come out, because I would like to hold on to some of those memories
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Considering that they only make 12,000 copies, I am of the opinion that even a '92 - '95 release would sell out. I predict resale values would be equal too if not higher than the original purchase price. Everybody has their own favorite eras/shows. Why deny the demographic who might be only interested in 1984, 1986, 1994, 1995 or any other year/tour that isn't officially represented or are under-represented? Ultimately, you can't please everybody. Somewhere there's the guy who won't be satisfied until the rest of the concertsa from 1972 get released, despite having the enire E72 tour in a convenient box, then will threaten to never buy another release if, Heaven forbid, GDP and Rhino decide to release another 1985 or 1988 show.
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A good article. I totally agree with Blair's division of the 30 year trip into five eras. I have further divided them into eleven epochs and have compiled a detailed timeline, available on request. I know that it was a valuable experience for anyone to have seen the Grateful Dead at any point in their history. I know some young Heads of college age who never saw them and I wish for them that they could at least have seen the Vince-era band. We all cherish the time when we first got on the bus and saw our first shows. My first was 10/9/72 at Winterland and even by then the older Heads were talking about how Winterland was too big and how the scene was better at the Fillmore and the Avalon and how Pigpen's absence was taking away an integral part of the band and there was derision of the emerging "Rock Star Bobby" and how we teenagers couldn't get the point if we hadn't been a part of the ballroom scene and the free shows in the Panhandle... At the end of the day I do think that it's all about Jerry. I treasure the experience of having seen him play, as I do treasure the memories of others I have seen who are no longer with us: Andres Segovia, Joe Pass, Freddie King, Roy Buchanan, Jaco Pastorius... As went Jerry, so went the Grateful Dead. When he was ineffective, for whatever reason, then they simply were not interesting. In the '90s I also saw good and bad shows by the JGB and Garcia/Grisman. I saw some terrible shows. My last Dead show was 2/26/95 at the Oakland Coliseum Arena. They opened with a version of "Let the Good Times Roll" that didn't have enough spirit to make the good times crawl on their hands and knees. It didn't get much better from there. In all, the Vince years were the Dead playing out the string for the sake of keeping the money coming in to support the large family they had created (not a bad reason, really). There were some good shows. I saw 12/12/94, also in Oakland and it was a blast. I would buy a "Best of..." compilation in the format of the original Road Trips concept. I know the vociferous Complete Show Absolutists will hate it, but picking out individual tracks from the era would produce a listenable release with some enjoyable surprises. I doubt there would be a complete show that could give a consistent and comprehensive picture. Some Heads with closer ties to this era have suggested certain shows as complete show releases and they are probably right on. I'd rather see the work go into a '67 or '68 release.
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I think the post-Brent Dick's Picks are the weaker ones and the Road Trips, Ditto.Of course there are great moments, but I generally wish it had been Bruce only- imagine the Keith-like revival in the sound! Sometimes the group would be winding through a Dark Star and all of a sudden you get a sound not unlike a power tool piercing through everything and causing one to wince, Vince. I would implore Dave to stick to previous line-ups. In fact, earlier the better!!!
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It is unusual for so many heads to be requesting a compilation. I have asked several times for one. It sounds like Phil doesn't want a "Wave To The Wind" to be released. That sort of spoils it. A 92-95 compilation with all the songs never released would sell enough to be worthwhile. It rounds out serious collections, from the official release point of view A lot of good reminiscence and insights in this thread from an era not much discussed.
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on the bus since '81 - my Dead teeth were cut on Brent's dark, foreboding songs which played perfect foil to the joy and hopefulness of Hunter's - which was the lure that kept me chasing them across the country for the next 14 years.... imho i believe Vince was NEVER allowed the access, input, or support necessary to truly blossom as Brent was allowed to - i've heard rumors that most of the band didn't like him personally or professionally (might be wrong, but such is the rumor) and as Jerry's fade-away began to really roll I think that Vince felt even more alienated and unsure of exactly his place in the band - if he ever had one (if you were picked to be keyboardist and then they bring in Hornsby? - guess they didn't think he could cut it alone!) that being said, i still believe there were many meaningful musical moments (mmmm) during the post-Brent period and as such should be included in any future releases - heck, let me pay a couple of grand and give me access to the entire library - unless you decide to open it up for free ;-) peace for those who need it - love for all
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On furthur pondering, it did occur to me that I can't recall any '94/'95 official releases and so if a show, especially from '95, could be deemed available and good enough to present nearly as well as the first two Dave's Picks, that would be a great thing.
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16 years 10 months
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First I have to say that my "favorite" era seems to change depending on what I feel like hearing. I don't think there is a bad one & people that shut any of them out are only hurting themselves. Second, I think Vince got a bad rap & thanks Blair for calling us on this. Lastly, like many of you I'm sure, I have bootlegs going into 1995 (yes, I have the whole 3 CD set of Jerry's last show). Like every other year, there are wonderful shows & BOMBS. Putting some of the good stuff that I'm sure you have stored away out would be, to me a good move. Come, Bobby doing "Take Me To The River", who doesn't want that? I'd love to see some soon.
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......are stored in the Vault from '90-'95. Believe it or not, a lot of shows from this era do not circulate from the dsbd. What's the point of having a Vault with that many shows just sitting there?? Please release all eras, even some '94-'95, they will sell, it's all profit now, for Rhino and us!! Let the downloads roll as well!!
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stated in "The Keyboardist Question", after Brent, the boys should have simply taken the rest of the year off out of respect if for nothing else. That would have given them plenty of time to get their affairs in order and possibly a new approach to their touring agenda. Let's not forget that in 1974 they found a reason to "hang it up and see what tomorrow brings". And thats when health and age was not an issue. Prior obligations aside, it's as if they had to prove something to whoever that it was not a monumental task to find a replacement for Brent. Even if Vince was the inevitable choice, he could have used the hiatus to hone his chops sans Bruce Hornsby. Vince Welnick in my opinion turned out to be a fine replacement for Brent Mydland. And we wouldn't have had to hear those God awful synth-tones if there were just one keyboardist who had time to prepare himself to become part of the best band in the land. I will now plant my foot in my mouth and say that 6-25-93 was a great show. Even with Bruce on accordian. If I may steal a quote "they pulled out the vista-cruiser not once, not twice, but for the whole damn show" So there you have it.
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The Hornsby moment was nice, and Vince was great but didn't have time for his own groove. The last decent show I saw was Deer Creek, June 23rd '93...and even then the best part was Terrapin Station>drums>Dark Star>The Wheel>Good Lovin'; enc: Lucy in the Sky With Diamonds. Even that show had the endurance test of Easy Answers (Cheesy Dancer, as we called it), and Phil's dirge of "Wave to the Wind"...may as well been pissin' in the wind. But Jerry turned it all around with Terrapin, and it was golden after that. If you do release '90's shows, do it in segments. I will not be purchasing them, as I decided while in the Rosemont Horizon, March 18, '94, that I'd be giving no more money to Grateful Dead, Inc...it was College Beer night at the Dead show, and crackHeads in the lot after the show acting like criminals. Totally trashed parking lot...nobody bothered to stay around and pick up trash anymore. The free kitchens were all gone, and pretty soon the phisHeads/gate crashers had taken over. So, peeps, find your Dead FOR FREE...you can do it! Find your own network, we are still out there, "just gotta poke around"! These guys have enough money, and at this point should be playing FREE benefit concerts, not lining their kids and grandkids pockets with YOUR dough! FREE THE DEAD! DON'T PAY FOR IT ANYMORE, FIND A FRIEND, BE GOOD AND A MIRACLE MAY COME YOUR WAY! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68SV4FbB3vo
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i am a person who's first show was norfolk scope april 1982 while in 9th grade, i am a relative late comer, btw of course i didnt know it at the show but that was the first show with jerry on brent's side and phil on stage-right (left from the audience perspective), it was also a great brent show including a fine "good time blues" yet despite not discovering them till the 80s... i learned early on that this incredible band had morphed quite a bit from its heights of the late 60s and early 70s, while i cherished the opportunity to enjoy many great shows, i realized i had missed out on the youthful dead doing what no band had dreamed of before, but we had tapes the late 70s are interesting, in retrospect we can all say they werent nearly as adventurous or jazzy as the early 70s, but at the time i imagine what they were doing seemed a logical follow-up to what they were doing in the billy-only period: tightening up, updating their sonic delivery to a more modern feel all the while busting out a few classics that had been dormant for a while, im sure some heads and the even the band expected they would return eventually to an all out jam format just like they did after the jam hiatus of early and mid 1971, but they never did some jams and "space" itself of course emerged during the brent era, but not the loose jazzy unpredictable type jams and space of 72-74 (there are exceptional shows), what they did accomplish with brent was being about as outright psycheldelic as any other era in their history... at times, and you gotta give em credit for constantly changing and trying new sounds when it would be easier to just stick with a formula that had worked, i guess it's called going furthur i have a hard time listening to post brent but i would love a "compilation" to open my eyes to some of the brighter spots of that era id also like to say being in my age group (i am exactly 20 years younger than bob) was a great perspective to discover and follow the band, since the boys were all 20 to 27 years older than me they could command a certain amount of respect from me just by virtue of being "so much older" and yet still rockin, thats different than getting into them when youre almost the same generation as the boys, it taught me that music and rock could be a lifelong passion and not something that you put away when you become an adult, and it helped me realize you dont have to be uncool when you are old i am glad all the different eras and sounds exist and are recorded and are now so accessible, all spokes of one wheel, but even as a late comer i cant help but love 69 - 74 the best
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14 years 3 months
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Black Dragonflies = Trouble Ahead.
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I leave it to the more zealous to look up where this actually happened, though I'm pretty sure it was a side-band show rather than the Dead, but the out-of-the-blue Bobby song that knocked my socks off in the moment was "Twilight Time." No, technically speaking he probably doesn't have the voice for it, but it was such a delight to have the song suddenly appear out of left field and him getting such a kick out of it.
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Bobby and Brent played an impromtu gig at Windows on the World sometime in the eighties. I remember hearing that they played that and Love Potion Number Nine also, if my memory serves. No doubt during a Garden run.
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16 years 9 months
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:^)
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16 years 9 months
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i got on the bus pretty late to start with (say end of 80s).... and my only show was buckeye lake 7/29/94 (can anyone hook a brother up?)... so, yes. i've learned now about all the dead eras, even the early-mid 80s i'm still learning to dig.... but i am fascinated with the dead's sound and arranging in the 90s. wow, playin in the band got *sick* in the last years.... i haertily encourage the dead team to release all the 90s dead they can! thanks, off podium now, ymmv :^)
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I didn't see my first show until '89, so I have a high tolerance for 90's Dead. I was at those Vegas '94 shows, that So Many Roads holds a very special memory for me. Keith and Donna are my first preference though. Anyway, there are a few full shows that might cut the muster - the Branford show for example I can't believe no one hasn't been mentioned it. In fact, they were recording for Without a Net I think for some time, lots of grate playin' during those tours. Another is 3/20/91 from the Crap Centre, was at the one too. Fired that up the other day, set II begins with a very good 20 minute Eyes. 10/1/94 might be worth releasing in it's entirety. But, like most, I would agree we are in compilation territory. Eternity, Victim or the Crime - geez, terrible man! But, So Many Roads, Corrina, Lazy River Rd, lots of good stuff to cherry pick from.