Grateful Dead

New Vines 2009

With collaboration from various kind folks in the vining community, our own erickat prepared this handy guide explaining how vining works hereabouts. Many thanks to all involved, and vine on! --

Dead.Net Vines - What It Is & How It Works

(We're changing some things for 2009)

BACKGROUND: The concept of a "vine" is music sharing through conventional means (e.g. mailing cd's or dvd's) with the sign-up list being on-line. The basic idea is that someone starts (seeds) a vine, made up of one or multiple shows,and sends it via mail to the first person who signs up. That person makes a copy for themselves and sends the ORIGINAL media on to the next person on the list. As more people sign up, it continues to grow and grow - hence the name "vine".

MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS: Make sure you can deal with the media format. Many vines are in audio CD format, so the minimum basic requirement is that you are knowledgeable and capable of copying audio CD's. Other vines are in DVD format, which means you at least need the capability of reading a DVD. Yet others are in SHN or FLAC format- if you sign up for one of these, you need to know how to deal with those formats. Help is readily available - just ask. Here are some helpful links:

Flac Format

SHN Format


VINE: An original physical package of music or video (cd's/dvd's) being passed from person to person

VINEYARD: A topic within (where all the vine forums exist) SEEDER: A person who initiates a vine (creates the original "seed" media) PM: Short for "Private Message" - communication provided through SIGNUP LIST: The list of people who sign up to receive the package. Note - Be careful to get the most up to date version - you may have to go back a few pages from the end to find it.

POSTING: The act of leaving a message in a forum (very important) Post to sign-up Post when a vine arrives ; Post after a vine is sent.

New VINE Process (changes for 2009):

1. Check the Vinedex (updated from time to time, but may be out of date) to make sure it hasn't already been vined. Note - not everything is fair game for vining. Check the following before vining anything:

a) The Vinedex

b) Dicks Picks

c) Other Live Albums

d) Download Series

If it's not in those places, it is generally fair game. No copyrighted material, please Taper friendly bands only. (Marye may veto a particular vine for copyright or similar reasons.)

2. Post your vine info here (without signup list) - maybe include a note reminding people not to sign-up until it has its own topic.

3. Marye creates a forum topic with the vine info & a blank sign-up list and posts a link in the new vines area (e.g. VINE XXXX Lives HERE - with a link)

4. Then people go to that vine & start signing up NOTE - to make it easier on Marye, you could also PM her with the info. No early sign-ups - Any sign-ups before the vine has its own home will be ignored


1. Find a VINE you want to sign-up for.

2. Locate the most recent and most complete LIST (towards the end of the vine)

3. Copy the list & paste it into a new message, adding your username at the bottom.

4. Post the message & PM the person directly before you with your name & mailing address. Note the fact that you signed up for this vine (a spreadsheet is a good idea) (it can take a long time between when you sign up and when it arrives, so you really need to track what you're on the hook for & when to expect it- it's a responsibility)

5. Check your PM inbox and the vines you've signed up for periodically, so you know if someone is looking for you AND so you know when to expect each vine's arrival. Remember, if someone posts that they sent it to you & that's the last we know... it will look like you were the one that dropped the ball. If you don't receive a vine when you thought it was coming, then Post

6. When the vine arrives, post to (on the appropriate vine) that you received it.

7. Take care of the media - don't scratch 'em or crack 'em or put your fingerprints all over them - clean media means a longer lived vine

8. Make a copy for yourself & mail the ORIGINALS to the next person on the list.(If the person directly behind you on the list hasn't sent you their address, PM them. If no response after 3 or 4 days, PM the next in line - but post to the vine so people know)

9. Please make sure to properly package and address the media before mailing it. We have had some unfortunate losses, due to bad addresses, packages falling apart and just plain lost in the mail. Padded envelopes are cheap - and make sure they're securely taped & properly addressed.

10. AFTER you mail it, post on (on the appropriate vine) that you have sent it to the next person on the list. It is your responsibility to remember what you sign up for and be anticipating its arrival. Post messages to the vine upon receipt and again, after you have sent it on.


1. If you did not receive a PM or email from the person who is next on the list, PM them. If no response, then PM the following person for an address and send it to them, if they respond. If they don't, PM the next person - but in any case, make a posting on Dead.Net (on the appropriate vine) about what you're doing. This is very important. It's the only way we know what's going on.

2. If you were expecting a vine and did not receive it - PM the person who was going to send it to you. In any event, post to Dead.Net (on the appropriate vine) with the circumstances, so everyone knows what is going on. It can't be overstated how important POSTING is - just knowing what is going on will prevent speculation, accusations & hard feelings.

CAVEAT EMPTOR As a friend of mine always says ... "don't sweat the small stuff" - "and by the way - it's all small stuff."

Life happens - car accidents, arrests, people get sick - people abscond - but you can't get overly upset about any of it, especially when it's all free. Sometimes vines disappear - and many times, they are revived or re-seeded by kind folk. This is the most unrestrictive & trusting vine community I know of - and the reason we emphasize posting is so we can keep the music flowing - not to accuse or condemn. If we know a vine is lost, then someone can re-seed and keep the music going. Nobody should get upset or make personal attacks over what happens here. In the past, we've had all sorts of reasons why people just disappear - and when they came back, we were overjoyed that they did. Sometimes, if a person is known to be unreliable, their name will be removed from the vine lists - but that's a rare occurrence.


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That Nice Hippy Guy's picture
Joined: Jul 8 2007
Two from 76 Vine

So to make up for sending the 93 by request vine to the wrong person here’s another vine.

I know it would have been just as easy to burn 3 audio discs for 8/4 but I decided to give the whole flac thing a try. This is my first shot at burning flac discs so let me know if anyone has problems.

This will be 5 cds of flac files all together

Grateful Dead
Beacon Theater
New York, NY
June 15, 1976 - Tuesday

Source: Betty Cantor 7" two track reel w/DBX-1 @ 7 1/2 ips>
PCM501ES @ 44.055 kHz PCM501ES analog out>DBX-1 decoder>
analog in PCM501ES analog out>Dat @ 48 kHz
Jace Crouch’s original source WBOTB DAT via trailmix and Tim Deibert

Patch Source: (shnid=#10307) Sony TC 153 Sony ECM 99A Mikes > Cassette x 2 > DAT

Transfer: Panasonic SV-3700 > Cardas cable S/PDIF >
Edirol UA-5 > USB > WaveLab @ [32bit float / 48kHz]
Mastering: In WaveLab with Waves L3 Multimaximizer
Rate Conversion with r8brain to [16bit/44.1kHz] > CD Wave > TLH > Flac
Transfer and mastering by Bill Koucky November 26, 2008, Green Mountain Bros.

1st Set:

1. Promised land
2. Sugaree
3. Cassidy
4. Candyman
5. The Music Never Stopped
6. It Must Have Been The Roses
7. Looks Like Rain
8. Tennessee Jed
9. Let It Grow >
10. Might As Well

Time: 84:14

2nd Set:

1. Tuning
2. Saint Stephen >
3. Not Fade Away >
4. Stella Blue
5. Samson & Delilah
6. Friend Of The Devil
7. Dancin’ In The Streets >
8. The Wheel >
9. Sugar Magnolia >
10. Scarlet Begonias >
11. Sunshine Daydream
12. Johnny B. Goode

Time: 94:42

To Burn to 3 discs:
Disc 1 s1t01 – s1t08 65:06
Disc 2 s1t09 – s2t06 77:25
Disc 3 s2t07 – s2t12 36:28

Grateful Dead
Roosevelt Stadium
Jersey City, NJ

SBD>Cm>Reel>Lucid AD2496>CD>EAC>SHN
(Tape Flips Patched w/(FOB) Shure Mics>Cm>Dat>CD)
(parts of set 1 patched from video soundtrack)
from Charlie Miller via Patrick Clifford with many thanks
(my source for the show was bob wagner - cm)

Disc 1 (79:25)
Set 1:
Sugaree (14:42)
New Minglewood Blues (10:39)
Row Jimmy (12:21)
Big River (7:04)
Loser (11:10)
Looks Like Rain (7:50)
They Love Each Other (8:56)
The Music Never Stopped (6:39)

Disc 2 (73:17)
Set 1 continued:
Scarlet Begonias (15:26)
Set 2:
Help On The Way--> (6:34)
Slipknot--> (10:49)
Franklin's Tower--> (12:16)
Dancin' In The Streets--> (14:42)
The Wheel--> (5:42)
Samson & Delilah (7:45)

Disc 3 (61:43)
Set 2 continued:
It Must Have Been The Roses (8:52)
Not Fade Away--> (6:50)
Drums--> (3:58)
The Other One--> (16:43)
Ship Of Fools (8:36)
Sugar Magnolia (12:03)
Johnny B. Goode (4:36)

That Nice Hippy Guy's picture
Joined: Jul 8 2007

I guess I will go ahead a reseed the jerry solo vine. Im gonna try really hard to keep that one alive for everyone, and also the St. Louis 82 vine again if it needs it.

"You know the one thing we need is a left handed monkey wrench....."

Birdsong1969NJ's picture
Joined: Jul 7 2008

I think you should consider running up the GDP flag putting MITD on the payroll! I think he needs a job.

"Circle songs and sands of time, and seasons will end in tumbled rhyme,
and little change, the wind and rain."

Joined: Jul 29 2008
People on both sides of missing vines get PMs...

...before a vine gets added to the list. I don't send out the nag PMs until I see a vine hasn't moved in at least a couple of weeks, and I send add'l PMs to people who don't reply. That's why my out box has a pile of PMs to Billy S.

PM'd emily and W&W about the BTP vine, forgot to add it before I posted the list. Thanks pomo1.


**************This space for rent*****************

marye's picture
Joined: May 26 2007
Primal Gems '66 Vine

is here.

Exploratory Data Analysis Dead's picture
Joined: May 12 2008

Thanks for that hard, tedious work. You are unofficially deputized as the unofficial Lost Vine Detective. That list was so long, I had to do a word search to see if I was listed as a perpetrator. I figured I was not since the posse had not come-a-knockin'.

pomo1's picture
Joined: Jun 5 2007
Thanks Mark

Your efforts are totally appreciated. It looks like the Boston Tea Party 1969 Vine is also MIA.

"Let there be songs to fill the air."

Joined: Jul 29 2008
Missing Vines List

Hey now!

The following is a summary of vines that have withered away, disappeared, whatever. Not a complete list by any measure. Note that I'm not pointing fingers or calling people names, just trying to identify, locate and get some of them moving again. There are a few viners that are missing along with the vines and who knows what their issues are? You may want to be careful if one of the missing viners (or somebody you aren't sure is currently active) is after you, however, and PM them before mailing a vine to them. Wait a few days for a reply and if you don't receive one then skip to the next person.

Several other vines that were lost have been found and are moving again, and many other vines have been reseeded. Thanks to all the reseeders!

If you see any errors or have any info please let me know. If there are vines you think should be added (especially ones that are already past me, I don't check on those much), PM me and I'll look into it.

And if you want to step up for a reseed, well Jerry bless you!

MarkintheDark, self-appointed Vine Dick.


Vines that have been recently (or are being) reseeded:

1) 1971 Tour Vine: not a reseed, but this vine has reappeared after a long delay. 2 DVDs, no CDs

2) GD/NRPS '70 Vine: being reseeded by richard, should be moving along in the near future

3) Valentine's Day 1988 Vine: reseeded by stuman and is moving along

4) Bits 'n' Pieces Vine: reseeded by pkpotter and Oroboros and is moving along

5) Progressive Rock Vine: reseeded by MarkintheDark and is moving along

6) Winterland October '74 Vine: in the process of being reseeded by richard

7) Merriweather Post Pavilion 7/1/85 Vine: reseeded by erickat and is moving along

8) Hollywood Palladium '71 Vine: reseeded by Birdsong1969NJ and is moving along

9) Autzen Stadium/Eugene OR Vine: reseeded by pkpotter and is moving along

10) The PERRO Tapes Vine is suspected as being lost in the mail, but the last viner that had it has offered to reseed if the vine doesn't turn up soon.

11) Augusta '84 Vine: reseeded by MarkintheDark.


Missing vines summary (as of 02/03/09)

1) The Jerry Solo Acoustic '82 Vine: appears to be MIA again, last seen joneb sending it to Irie333 on 1/7. PM'd Irie333 a few times, no reply; she is now being contacted through other channels. This vine is apparently popular among the USPS, and only made it through four people since its last reseed before disappearing again.

2) Eurovine #4: MIA since chinacat503's car was broken into last summer, and it's never been reseeded. Another unfortunate loss. *02/04 update: no change. Anybody got the DVD? C'mon, it's just a single DVD, I'll send you the blank and a postage-paid envelope! (there's not enough old'n'Dead around)

3) Gruga Halle 3/28/82 Vine: MIA since 10/1, last seen On The Road Again to That Nice Hippy Guy, PM'd both on 11/22. TNHG says he sent addy a couple of times but has received nothing; OTRA hasn't responded to PMs, and I sent him another 12/6. *02/04 update: still no reply from On The Road Again. Somebody mentioned they could reseed this, but I don't recall who it was.

4) Keith's First Few Months Vine: MIA since 8/25, last seen with von dingle. No reply to PMs to vd. This was a great big vine (several DVDs full) and has never been reseeded. 02/04 update: still missing/not reseeded.

5) Autumn '72 Part 1 - Sept Vine: MIA since 9/12, last seen thomasdbll to toddsnc, PM'd both on 11/22. Todd never received it and thomasdbll hasn't responded to either PMs or emails. 02/04 update: no change, vine is still kaput.

6) St. Louis 8-4-82 Vine: That Nice Hippy Guy, bless his heart, reseeded this vine as well but it may be MIA again. Chasmo posted he received it 12/24, but no further info. PM'd chasmo end of January but haven't heard back; maybe there's still hope for this one.

7) October '72 Vine: MIA since late June '08, Estim8ed to von dingle. Figure it disappeared at von dingle like the KFFM vine. Never was reseeded. *02/04 update: no change.

8) Carrierdome 10-20-84 vine: Last seen TNHG mailed to redgrenadine on 10/14. Heard back from redgrenadine (via email, not PM since red "hasn't been frequenting much"). He never received the vine. *02/04 update: Vine is still missing, has not been reseeded as yet.

There's a bunch of other vines that are inactive, maybe not lost but just reached the end of their lists and have been idle for many months.

**************This space for rent*****************

Joined: Nov 21 2007
GD primal gems "66"

well this is my second try at seeding a nice vine , let`s see what happens ..
I have cheked the vinedex and official releases ,ect .. and I did`nt see this anyplace ...
this is on two cdr`s so converting not needed ...the sound quality is pretty good considering when it was taped ... Please no sign up`s yet ,, Pending Dead.nets Goddess Marye ..

Primal GD GEMS - Assorted 1966 Grateful Dead

SMRs>DAT>3x>Delta DiO 2496>Soundforge 7.0>WAV>CD Wave Editor>FLAC

CD #1
Possibly 2/12/66 - 7"reel 1/2 track at 7.5 IPS:
Viola Lee Blues
Don't Ease Me In

"Longshoreman's Hall 1st Night" - 7" Reel 1/2 Track @ 15IPS:
Beat It On Down The Line
Schoolgirl>You Don't Love Me>Schoolgirl (original reel cuts)

Unlabeled Reel:
Pigpen Raps
Billy, Bobby, and Pigpen>
New Orleans (sort of an attempt)
Twist and Shout

CD #2
"Longshoreman's Hall 3rd Night" - 10" Reel 1/2 Track @ 15IPS:
It's A Sin
Viola Lee Blues
Midnight Hour
Beat It On Down The Line
Blues Jam (with Jorma and Jack) Note: reel runs out before the end

Pauley Ballroom #2 (no date) - 10" Reel 1/2 Track @ 15IPS:
You Don't Have To Ask - Phil Talks About The Move To L.A.
Viola Lee Blues (some static at start of song)
I Know You Rider
Midnight Hour (plug pulled)

There are also a couple of short digi noises during the blues jam. The dates and locations
are as marked on the boxes of master reels. Let's leave it to the Deadhead historians to figure it all out for accuracy.

A GEMS production -+-+- -+-+- December 2006

ps.. I will begin working on some CSNY from the Lopez`s LBOE vine week ..

pkpotter's picture
Joined: Jun 7 2007
Get better soon Marye, I

Get better soon Marye, I feel for you, having been dealing with it and a numb knee and leg since mid december.
Take care, many people here rely upon your supreme guidance. pk


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New Vines 2009