Grateful Dead

Maybe I'm missing it, but what's the difference in resolution between the ALAC and the FLAC? Thanks!

Here's to hoping that the digital download is in the form of 4 discrete downloads instead of one big data dump!

Both are lossless digital music formats. This means that neither file format compresses the music to make it smaller, thus giving it better and wider sound. FLAC is an open-source code, ALAC is the proprietary Apple version of FLAC. Since both have the same source, there won't be any difference in sound quality. However, I prefer FLAC because it is used on a far wider range of music players, not just those with itunes, and anyway, it is easily convertible to ALAC .

The bigger question is regarding the source file. A Flac file at 24 bit/192 khz will sound better than on that is at 16 bit/44 khz (CD quality). Many of the digital boxes in the past have been 24/192 so hope this one is too. But surprised it doesn't say.

What is the bit rate of the downloads? Is it 24/192?

Thanks

Weren’t these dates included in the Europe 72 Steamer Box ?

I have the steamer trunk but if these downloads are 24/192 I'll pick them up. That being said, I'm not pulling the trigger until the bit rate has been confirmed. The fact that the specifics aren't in the description makes me suspicious.

Yes they were, but now you can buy them on vinyl, on a download and probably on a pair of socks, too!

Yep, thanks...well aware of the differences in lossless audio file formats -- my question was about these releases and their bit rates. Given that the FLAC costs more, I'm going to say it's hi-res. How high is the question, I guess...

If they aren't 24 bit, not going to bite.

STL Box is 24/192
Giants Box is 24/96

Based on the price difference of those, I’m guessing that Lyceum 72 will be 24/96.

In the seaside chat for the vinyl Dave says that they used the same Norman mix as used for the Steamer Trunk. But that that mix was remastered by Glasser.
So, if you already have the Steamer Trunk or the AME, no point in the download unless it sounds significantly better. I have the AME, so I’ll wait for the reviews of the downloads, confirmation that you get the correct and complete download (not usually the case based on comments on other download boards), and confirmation of what the FLAC files are.

Hoping this is not the semi-annual Box Set release, for 2022

Whats the difference with this release that differs with these same shows that are included in the " Europe '72: The Complete Recordings " that was released back in 2011 ? "steamer trunk case " I spent quite a lot for this back then, and I think that they are 24-bit HDCD. Will there be previously unreleased " Extras " ?

Same Norman mix as on E72.
Lyceum has been remastered by Glasser.
Dave describes it in the seaside chat.

This new remaster was done with Plangent processes, which should give a noticeably better sound as it compensates for analog tape speed variations.

The 2011 release was mastered by Glasser and Plangent was used. Not sure what is new this go around?
And none of the CD releases are 24 bit. 24 bit CDs only exist in SACD and DVD Audio format.
The HDCD releases are 20 bit and you only get that extra 4 if you have a HDCD player.

Deadvikes makes a good point, 2011 was mastered with Plangent Processes. The main obvious difference then is that this version will play back full fidelity without HDCD decoding (rare now, other than software emulations, which are imperfect). And of course, perhaps this remaster is superior, we won't know until release. The download version is a fair price, certainly worthwhile for anyone who does not have an HDCD player. If this remaster has no (or minimal) compression, I will consider it.

Looks like these are the original 2011 mixes by Jeffery transfer by Plangent Processes, and I would say with the size of this project at this time frame the transfers were done @24/96 then were remastered by Glasser in 2022 for the vinyl and digital release.

Resolution? 24-192? 24-96? Would be good to know. Caught the first and last shows, impoverished student, coping with the Dead turning up during his Oxford finals term. Thanks, guys :-)

192 would be great...

Thanks

DbPowerAmp has an HDCD DSP which will do it digitally. See this from the recent Dave's Picks, converted this way

Artist The Grateful Dead
Title 06 Playing in the Band
Album 42 - 1974-02-22 [Winterland Arena, San Francisco, CA] %
Track 06
Disc
Genre Grateful Dead
Year 1974
Rating
Composer
Size 119.58 MB (63% Compressed)
Original Size 318.58 MB
Length 21 minutes 2 seconds
Channels 2 (stereo)
Sample Rate 44.1 kHz;
Sample Size 24 bit
Bit Rate 2,116 kbps (DVD)
Encoder FLAC reference libFLAC 1.3.3 20190804
Encoder Settings
Audio Quality Perfect (Lossless)
Contains Album Art, CRC, ID Tag [Vorbis Comments]
Channel Mapping
File 06 Playing in the Band
Type FLAC Audio File (VLC) [.flac]

I've never purchased an ALAC download from here. Once this is released, will it come to me somehow? Or, how do I get it. And once I get it how do I use it? I have a Mac with iTunes. In other words, I just want to make sure if I order this I'll be able to figure out what I need to do.

Thanks, Warren

Second question of the day :-)

I have already pre-ordered all the new-to-be-released Lyceum shows on iTunes. However, the pre-order option for all the shows isn't showing any longer for pre-order. The remastered Europe 72 pre-order is though. I talked with iTunes and they said it might be due to updates relating to the product. My pre-order still is active and valid in my account so I'm assuming all is OK. Anyone have any knowledge or thoughts? Has anyone else purchased the pre-order on iTunes?

Thanks again, Warren

STILL no news on what resolution for the digital download...

This is why I don't purchase downloads on Dead.net.

I have audio players & headphones that will properly play hi-res audio, both 24-96 and 24-192. I have never ordered a digital download from dead.net so need to know what resolution the digital Lyceum shows will be delivered in. I am not inclined to fork over almost $100 if these shows are not higher fidelity than CD res. Others have asked but I have seen no answer from dead.net so far. Today is July 24 and the release is to be very soon.

What sucker, opps, Intrepid Audiophile, will download the hi rez files to see if they are correct or just the left channel of the Shaggs album in 128 bit mp3 ?

Someone has already posted the technical diffs between FLAC and ALAC. When it comes to buying digital downloads from desktop.net, however, here's the practical diff!

ALAC is lossless compression of CD quality. So if you want CD quality downloads of the box for less than the physical box, this is the one for you That's why it is cheaper than FLAC;

FLAC is lossless compression of high resolution files. Usually either 24/96 or 24/192. I wish they would tell us which when they announce the items for sale, but honestly, you get a bigger bang going from CD quality's 16 bit to 24. Yes, 192KHz is technically better, sonically, than 96, but many ears can't hear the diff, whereas (at least IMHO), the upgrade to 24 bit is much more noticeable.

So that's the difference, and why FLAC is more expensive. I typically buy FLAC, but convert to AIFF as I am on a Mac and have all my music in Apple's music app (used to be called iTunes), and iTunes won't play FLAC. When I import them into my music library I automatically convert them to ALAC, to conserve space, but keep the AIFF files on a different hard drive that is RAID 1, plus is backed up. I've learned, the hard way, the importance of proper backups so I tend to go a little overboard as my iTunes/Music library is also backed up.

Aa for dead.net's delivery? Other than some occasional technical problems delivering the downloads, I've been very happy with my digital download purchases from dead.net, as they're usually cheaper than in third party download stores. And they always resolve any technical issues.

Fingers crossed that they are delivered, this Friday, without any technical glitches. They always fix them, as I said, but it can sometimes take a few days, and given I preorder these types of downloads on the day they are announced, in this case some months ago, I really do want to hear the music on release date. I've also preordered the MSG box as FLAC, so here's hoping for a glitch-free delivery with that as well, later this year!

Cheers!

You buy 24-bit FLAC, then convert to 16-bit AIFF?

Totally agree with the backups and the RAID.
I have 5 RAID enclosures from OWC (three thunderbolt 2 dual drives, a thunderbolt 3 quad drive, and a thunderbolt 3 dual that I’m going to use to build a new iTunes library from scratch).
I use RAID 1 on all of them so that if something goes wrong with the enclosure I can just pull out the HD’s and a complete copy will be on each one.

It's release day - when will shows be ready for download?

I got an email this morning with the downloads but THEY DON'T WORK! Invalid download URL scheme WTF!!!!!

I'm also getting the same error with the download. Same old dead.net download nonsense

I received the Email this morning, but get the same error!

I've always seemed to have this problem, I pre-order. This time the purchase was made today. Same error. Frustrating. Last time it took a week to clear up to get my downloads. I've listened to the remaster or E'72 on iTunes this morning and it was epic.

Yup same thing here, get the URL error. Did not even get an email had to sign in and view order status to get to the downloads. You would think that after the first dozen times that would have had this thing figured out by now and have a solution so this would not continue to occur.

Also still no ship notice on new DAP or Europe 72 anniversary CDs.

Why do they even bother with release dates if this is how it goes down. Oh, for the days when we could just call 800-CAL-DEAD, and actually speak to a person to fix our problem (usually nothing more than a broken CD case back then).

Q: How many Deadheads does it take to change a lightbulb?

A: 100: 1 to screw in the lightbulb, and 99 old dudes to tell you how much brighter and clearer it was back when Owsley made the lightbulbs.

I wonder if the downloads work for anyone. Pretty annoying though the payments processing works flawlessly at least!

Has anyone got there downloads yet? I was going to buy this.

Nope and they don't even respond to email. Absolute BS!

Crap. This store is unbelievable.

Please let us know what the bit rate of the files are.
I will buy the FLAC if it’s 24-bit.
Thanks.

Implicit in charging more for the FLAC files is that those files will be 24-bit. But the Europe '72 FLAC files that I got this evening were only CD quality.

Having the same "Invalid download URL scheme" problem trying to download the Lyceum concerts.

Lousy customer service gang. Get it right the first time, just once, please!

I have the entire Europe '72 tour from the massive 2011 release. I would consider (re)buying these shows, however, if they are 24 Bit and preferably at 192 kHz. Please post when those questions are answered -- and, of course, when the files actually become available. After having substantial problems with Giant's Stadium and St. Louis downloads, I will not pre-purchase downloads anymore or even buy them on the release date. It's simply too much of a pain to keep following up with customer service to finally get what I paid for.

I'm not even sure what the point of re-releasing these shows is. There has been no remix AFAIK. That would mean going back to the multi-track tapes and rendering TRUE 24/192 > then on to 24/96. Along the way, adjustments to the sound quality would be made. These are still the original Norman mix, aren't they? Chances are excellent the recordings here are just 16/44.1 blown up to 24- whatever KHZ they felt like using. I could have done that at any point since 2011. To what end? Padding? That doesn't present with any added quality or music bits. Just additional zeroes and ones.

If they show up as 24/44.1, you should have saved your money. If they show up in any format you should have saved your money. "Remastered" doesn't mean "Remixed". Look:

Sourced from recordings by Betty Cantor, Janet Furman, Bob Matthews, Rosie & Wizard
Mastered by GRAMMY® Award-winning engineer David Glasser
Restoration and Speed Correction by Plangent Processes

That's the original process used in 2011. That applies to this release. Nothing has been done to enhance the sound field nor does it remotely suggest a remix has been done. Don't believe it? Check the specs at the bottom of the box set's Discogs entry:

I would spring for this set all day long if I thought they had remixed the shows from the master analog tapes and not simply "remastered" them. Of COURSE they are "remastered". Someone jiggered the bit/depth rate from the masters they used to create the 2011 box set. I bought that box in 2011. BTW - speaking of shipping - mine ended up in Africa and not the Northeast US where I live. Then, weeks later, was delivered to me in a rain storm.

I bought all these shows as digital from 7digitalcom when they were released as well. Don't know why as they are the same thing as if I ripped my own cd's.

Maybe think this stuff over and allow for the possibility the organization will play you like any corporate entity will if given a chance. If these aren't actual remixes from the master multi-track tapes, then fans are being played for suckers. Worse, being treated with contempt for never bothering to sub these things out to a platform who actually sells digital downloads and know what they are doing. The Red Rocks box is the ONLY successful download I have ever experienced from Deadnet. ALL the others were a botch like this one is. I actually felt fear when I downloaded from Deadnet every time and the fear was 99% justified.

I don't feel fear anymore. Just will not order downloads. I will feel fear in September when the Madison Sq Garden box is released. Where will that end up? On the International Space Station as some sort of bizarre joke? Will it be released on time?

Mayre I ordered the Box set $625.. I ordered the downloads FLAC $100.00 I subscribed to Dave's picks $99 I am in it for a large sum and today the 31st of July I have ZERO to show for it. If the downloads worked I would have been happy waiting for the rest but they did not and I am not very pleased. Ignoring peoples emails with download trouble is Unacceptably rude. Leaves a bad taste.

I ordered the Box set $625.. I ordered the downloads FLAC $100.00 I subscribed to Dave's picks $99 I am in it for a large sum and today the 31st of July I have ZERO to show for it. If the downloads worked I would have been happy waiting for the rest but they did not and I am not very pleased. Ignoring peoples emails with download trouble is Unacceptably rude. Leaves a bad taste.

In the past, I've downloaded digital box sets that were supposed to be 24 bit, but we're 16 bit cd quality files. After a few rounds with customer support, the 24/192 files were finally made available.
On another digital box set, all the files were high def except one. Again, after being persistent with customer support I finally got the correct file set. What I can't understand is why can't they get this right? Apparently nobody tests the download process which really boggles the mind. I'll still buy the digital releases but I'm never pre-ordering again. I'll just wait for the dust to settle before handing them a dime.

Randall, those are excellent and thoughtful comments. Thank you.

Agree, Randall these are helpful comments. Because they failed to note it in the description, I have been holding off on the Flac files for the London 72 shows. For what it is worth, I purchased Europe '72 Remastered from HDTracks in 24-192. It was $33, but they were having a 25% off deal - so about the same price as dead.net. Seems like if they have Europe 72 in 24-192, they would have the whole package. Anyway - waiting to hear before I buy the London set. Perhaps dead.net should outsource their digital downloads to HDTracks.

Just saying there is a lot of info missing here and most likely on purpose. The lack of lineage info plus retreading the process used to master into 16 bit for CD's is the clue. It's double speak.

The Red Rocks shows were 24/192 because they were taken directly from the master tapes and offered as both hi-def and CD options. Why the E72 shows weren't done that way is a mystery to me, the latter being FAR more significant than the former. And even then, the 07/07/1978 show must hve had a fair amount of jiggering only because I always understood that to be a mono show and a stereo version never existed.

If they WERE brand new remixes, that fact would have been screamed from the highest mountain top. That would be big big news. Remixing and remastering the E72 shows. "We went back to the "vault" and using the original, multi-track PCM tapes, have created a new and substantially better presentation." There would have been all sorts of forum talk and excitement. Rolling Stone magazine and their ilk articles and so forth. The GD organization is nothing if not self congratulatory while feebly attempting to relate to the fans. I haven't heard a peep about that.

We must remember too that HDT, Prostudio and Nugs et al are simply vendors. They have nothing to do with creating the files or their quality. They are at the mercy of the clients who PASS them the files to be sold. I highly doubt the new Europe '72 release is actual remixes from the master PCM tapes. Which is what it would take to be called a "remix" and not a "remaster".

I guess for myself at least, I don't see the value in this set. Not saying others don't or shouldn't. But in the audiophile world, blowing up a CD rip from 16 bit to 24 bit is forbidden and fraudulent. The only way we as collectors will see this set in true 24/96 is if the organization redoes the shows from the master tapes in the "vault" OR someone rips the vinyl into analog/PCM and then masters as 24/96 or 24/192.

Can't download what I paid for. The site won't accept my password and won't send an email for me to fix it.