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    marye
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    In one of the other topics, one of the folks seemed not to be so sure of the reception he'd get for saying he was a youth minister at his church. In my experience, Deadheads span the full spectrum from Agnostic to Zoroastrian. I've met atheist Deadheads, Muslim Deadheads, Buddhist Deadheads, Catholic Deadheads, Jewish Deadheads, and Wiccan Deadheads. My Deadhead friends are all over the map on this stuff, and as far as I'm concerned one of the real richnesses of the scene is the ability to see how things look to other folks and, sometimes, experience it from their world. Believe it if you need it, if you don't, just pass it on. But talk about it here, and please maintain a safe respectful place to do so.

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  • iknowurider
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    Hey Trifecta :-)
    Growing up in the Bible Belt, going to church everytime the doors were opened,(which I stopped doing when my Free Will counted for something). I've always asked myself & others " How do we know "We're" right?" After much reading on multitudes of Relgions ~ & still having plenty more to learn about them. The Answer for me is, Faith & is Faith.Your Higher Power is just that, put a name on it, fine, but I think in the End words are just Words. BTW ~ Abraham did not Kill his Son for God, I think you misunderstood those verses. "Believe it if you need it If you don't, just Pass it On....." PEACE
  • 00
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    Flaming Lips
    See this is what i mean. I have a good friend and he was one of my closest friends (both Shane and his twine Shawn were both my closet friends) when i was living in Portland Oregon. Shane used to work for Phish and both Shawn and Shane are very good friends and i still consider them to be family. We have been back in contact recently which is very cool. Thanks to these 2 wonderful individuals i was able to spend a lot of time in the Clinic (Phish back stage) and had comped tickets for all the shows and just had to walk up to the ticket office with my ID. This went on for a few years until i had to walk away from it all. Ah those were the good old days!!!! We have had some very testing times together and have seen the other side together so to speak. Well Shane now works for the Flaming Lips and he has sent me some very strong emails on how the Flaming Lips are such a good bunch of people and that their music is inspirational. Honestly i took his word but never really listened to the music and as i have tried to meet up with him on tour in Europe (but has not worked out) have never seen them live. Ok i will check these guys out. They have been around for about 10 years or so right? GRTUD: I love this discussion!!!!!!
  • GRTUD
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    Night And Day
    Thanks Trifecta! Grate story and isn't life ironic? You're correct in regards to dualism (I think - I'm no expert on these issues, by any means). I always think of The Flaming Lips song, "Do You Realize" when Jesus is used as a weapon against "sinners" for everything from free thinking to making mistakes in our attempt to understand ourselves and the universe, in general. The song references the fact that there is no "night", (the sun doesn't go 'down') because "it's just an illusion caused by the Earth spinning 'round". The sun keeps shinning (for now, anyways ; - ). Whatever or whoever Jesus was, that's how the message resonates with me. "Take the good, leave the rest" is my philosophy. In science, all minds are utilized to make achievements, even those folks that are ultimately "wrong". "You know what the trouble about real life is? There's no danger music."
  • 00
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    Dualism
    GRTUD: i had to look up the word Dualism in order to fit it into the context of your post. Dualism: denote co-eternal binary opposition, a meaning that is preserved in metaphysical and philosophical discourse but has been diluted in general usage. Got it thanks. On my flight back to London from Sierra Leone we took a 3 hour grueling drive through the African Bush (i mean i hit my head on the ceiling of the 4 Wheel Drive too many times and thought the tires were going to fall off but that’s another story) and by the time we reached the airport it was about 9pm and the flight was departing at 2am. So I was pretty much standing in 90 degree heat and 90% humidity (at night) for about 5 hours with a group of Missionaries just coming back from the Bush as they were setting up churches building wells and schools etc in the jungles. It’s funny how i end up in such interesting situations in my life. I mean come on!!! These girls and guys were from Southern Oregon and since i lived in Portland for about 4-5 years we had something to start talking about. I met a very nice guy who was about 45 years old and worked for HP etc etc. We talked about our experiences in SL and really hit if off and he was introducing me to his son and his friends who where there etc etc. We talked about just about everything (politics, GD, Oregon, SL, each others stories, etc) then we started showing our family pictures etc. Great Guy with a very good heart. He had 8 Children and all but one had brown hair and he went on to give me the reason why his newest (beautiful) son had brown hair. He gave me the creationists’ view that we all come from Noah etc etc. So i let him go on and i listened but of course i was thinking how someone can honestly think such a thing, Noah’s ark? Lions and Elephants in the dessert???? But i let him go on and now i know his view and that’s ok. Then right before we parted for the gates to pick up our tickets he said he had to do something and i said no no you don’t have to. (Because i knew at some point, but towards the end was not sure if he actually would start preaching to me). I must have confused him because i was talking about how my daughter was born on Christmas and where we had her baptized in Shanghai etc. (oldest church in China and a beautiful place). So he went on to tell me the word of God and ask, so you are catholic? and of course, in that split second I said I’m an Atheist. And he said he would say a prayer for me anyway i said ok you do that and we parted ways. (There’s more but i just wanted to share this much). GRTUD: I think the point is that we are on a never ending search for Knowledge, Answers, and Reasons. I think TOE (Theory of Everything) was a theory to bring to 2 schools of thought together in Physics. Quantum Physics explained by Steven Hawkins is what we go by now and most of his theories are mathematically proven. This is the guy who discovered Dark Matter and Black Holes, well he explained them. I am in the process of reading into all this and i think it is all mind blowing. I always freak about about the question: When we are all gone and the earth is sucked up into the our Suns demise (black hole), then whose to say that we were here at all. Are we really here or is this........................... wow
  • GRTUD
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    Dualism?
    Whatever you believe about historical fact, in this regard, I see Jesus in opposition to dualism, personally. For me Old Testament = Dualism. Then again, I'm just a speculator in these realms. Ironically, Egypt seems to hold some secrets to many of these mysteries historically, as do Mayan and Hopi tradition. Emerging nano technologies are also contradicting key elements of dualism, as the ultimate explaination of our observations of the universe. Even Einstein couldn't apply dualism to the Holy Grail of physics which he called, The Theory of Everything, which ultimately failed as a theory, much to his chagrin. I'm not up to going any "furthur" with the discussion, at the moment. "You know what the trouble about real life is? There's no danger music."
  • grateful_1973
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    Christian Deadheads
    I also am glad to know that thier are other Christian Deadheads.''LOVE IT''!''Duality is the nature of all things''.
  • grateful_1973
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    Christian Deadheads
    I also am glad to know that thier are other Christian Deadheads .''LOVE IT''!''Duality is the nature of all things''.
  • 00
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    peakin
    "I happen to find the words attributed to Jesus to be the wisest and most comforting words ever written. Pretty good for a bunch of nobodies. Peace to you and Lord have mercy on a sinner like me." Fair enough!!!! and "lord have mercy on all us crazies down here!"
  • 00
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    Thank you for your kind
    Thank you for your kind thoughts and i respect your views but of course I would like to add my two cents. There are no records from the time "Jesus" was out turning water into wine and rising from the dead. There are detailed records from both the Romans and the Jews who lived in the area at the time. So do we just discredit all these people? All of our ancestors? What about before the year 0? Do we discredit over 10,000 years of human life? All our ancestors and their entire Children’s Children’s Children? (these are our true roots) I think the modern religions make us forget about all those people who roamed the earth and how they have given us what we have evolved into today? Before the story of the "Son" there was the Sun and the Moon and the constellations and the seasons and there were rituals based on all of these realities. How can we discredit our ancestors because of the modern religions (which are certainly man made and borrowed from ancient Jewish texts and which were borrowed from Pagan religions). I have read the Old Testament and it is full of blood, Incest, and gore. Abraham who murdered his own son for God! Well guess what, if someone murdered their son today they would go away forever. The modern religions glorify a sick and twisted individual who heard voices in his head that told him to murder his 2 year old son!!! Imagine if CNN got a hold of that story! Do me a favor (this is something we all learned as children) tell your friend or girlfriend or husband etc. a sentence something from the headlines of the news. You know, something with details, and then ask this person to pass the story onto 10 other people and the 10th person will repeat this story back to you. When you finally receive the original sentence, the original sentence will have completely changed. Remember people could not read or write back in those days. Most of this stuff was passed down by word of mouth and then when the Gospels got a hold of it (400 or so years later) they wrote their versions of the story as if they were there! I am openly looking for evidence of Jesus and unfortunately even the Israeli government who has torn up all of Jerusalem looking for evidence has not found anything. They have found thousands if not millions of artifacts of the way people lived 3-4000 years ago in Israel and we even know their diets, habits, rituals, etc but there is no evidence of Jesus, or any of the other characters we read in modern religions. Religion is a skull cap on ones thoughts. You guys have proved it, I should stop asking why and stop studying this interesting part of life and stop reading about the origins and just accept the Bible (New Testament or Old Testament?). I respect religion as force of history and tradition and I even practice my catholic traditions and certainly celebrate the holidays (I love Christmas) and have had my daughter baptized and give respect to all religious places that I go to (mosques, Buddhist temples, churches) and the reason why I do this is because I think of the people who were a part of building these places just as if I visit ancient pyramids in Eritrea or ancient Indian burial grounds in North America. (Upstate NY has many). When Westerners first went to China they informed the Chinese about Jesus etc and their reply was something like, we have been around for 5000 years why has this Jesus never reveled himself to us? Then they made them koutou to their emperor who was given by their god!!! “God bless us crazies down here” Dan the Man: I will check the book out. Can you do me a favor? I am traveling right now, can you send me in a private message the name of this book and when i am back in Europe in a couple of days i will look for it. I am always looking for some more information. I like the concept of man trying to find his own identity and his true name because that’s what i am in the process of doing. I broke away from chains of organized religion and all the stories and now i have been and am looking for the truth and i can say that i am going in the right direction. When you remove the fiction from the equation and starting throwing in protons and neutrons and the various elements that we are made up of it really makes you view all of this in a new light.
  • DantheMan
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    "Why-ning" Trifecta?
    The "why" thing has been done to death so suffice to say that there is a purpose for everything under heaven (apologies to Ecclesiastes) and please turn turn turn away from so-called logic if you want what faith has to offer. If you think a book other than The Bible can help you understand where Life came from, that's cool - but do try reading The Bible. There is a reason it's the all-time Best Seller. What's even cooler, you can get one for free lots of places. Try a local faith-based thrift shop. As a rule, I have found that the self-proclaimed "logical" naysayers with regard to faith in Jesus and the One True God are the most closed-minded folk there be. That's not to sit in judgment of such folk, only to share my humble opinion. It's all "cool" until you are held to account at the end, asked why you worshipped "the sun" instead of "The Son." Then it may get ugly. But it's never too late to get the real TRIFECTA. Just cautions in regards to two things - best not to worship or "deify" such as Jerry or any parts of nature. They are and can create beautiful things, but are just the expression of the One True God. Do not confuse the made (or the maid) with The Maker. If you want to read a really great book try "Wild at Heart" by John Eldredge. It will not preach at you but it will talk about a man's search for his identity and his true name. Oh yeah, and The Dead deserve capital letters - cuz thurr da bets we gotz on dis hur erth. D
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In one of the other topics, one of the folks seemed not to be so sure of the reception he'd get for saying he was a youth minister at his church. In my experience, Deadheads span the full spectrum from Agnostic to Zoroastrian. I've met atheist Deadheads, Muslim Deadheads, Buddhist Deadheads, Catholic Deadheads, Jewish Deadheads, and Wiccan Deadheads. My Deadhead friends are all over the map on this stuff, and as far as I'm concerned one of the real richnesses of the scene is the ability to see how things look to other folks and, sometimes, experience it from their world. Believe it if you need it, if you don't, just pass it on. But talk about it here, and please maintain a safe respectful place to do so.
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I just think that everyone should respect and accept everyone else's opinion and just be kind and gentle with eachother and listen to the Grateful Dead.
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lemme know if you want the new topic started and what you want it called if so...
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could my suggestions be appropriate?....just a little joshing, that's all!!!
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yer scarin' me...
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I'll second Mr. Pid's proposal: "General philosophy...for those who have no use for Religion and don't mind saying so...all points of view are fair game, discussion encouraged, but flaming, hate speech and ad hominem attacks, no." My suggestion for a name is Imagine There's No Heaven.
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means that we accept the concept that there IS one, thus STILL based in Christianity, so personally I vote no to that one for a non-religious philosophy thread. How about: Deep Philosophical Thoughts
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'Life, the Universe and Everything'
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Mark 7:15 "There is nothing that enters a man from outside that can defile him, but the things that come out of him, those are the things that defile him" For example if a guy drinks whiskey and gets sleepy, and another drinks milk and gets mean, which one is sinning?
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for Badger's title! Works for me!
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yeah, i'll go with that too. first post should be why he feels the need to upset people so.........ha ha ha ha!!!!!!!!!!
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I agree because everybody has the right to have any opinion about anything so long as it is kynde and nice.
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badger's gonna go all honeybadger on you one day! :D
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ha ha!!does that mean he "just doesn't give a shit...Cosmic Badger's crazy...he's a bad ass...he just doesn't give a shit"!!!!!!! or does it mean he's going to smother me in sticky nectar and use that long moist tongue of his......
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I think we should be kind and thoughtful and not smother the space set aside for our believing brethren and sistren.
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bland or sulking?!!!!
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Is fine by me. Though we could then just cut to the chase and post "42" and end the discussion right there. I have been staying away from commenting on this thread, as I'm concerned about hijacking it away from its "mission statement" and its intended audience...though it seems the topic seems a bit underutilized lately. I had started working on what was intended as a letter to the editor of my local paper on the subject of government-sponsored prayer, a very hot hot-button issue on the local level these days in my neck of the Bible belt. But the letter turned into a much-too-long essay that I'm guessing wouldn't be accepted as a "guest column." Nearly posted on Facebook, and like the jonaPancake guy here, had second thoughts after I read it over. Still pondering it... Regardless, thanks for all the fish!
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don't you mean ONE fish, singular, gratefaldean? there's enough for 5000 there, surely?........!!!get a loaf of bread off a boy while you're at it! by the way, a spanking new series on the BBC of Douglas Adams' Dirk Gently detective is starting soon. Stephen Mangan is a great actor (all too sadly under-written for since the glorious and must-see Green Wing). and by the way, here would be the perfect place for that letter!! come come deano old bean, reveal all! sounds mighty intriguing to these ears. the words "government sponsored prayer" should NEVER be used in that formation and order, and, if they ever are, a shudder should rattle the spine like an ill-advised stage dive at Black Flag concert. or a Suicidal Tendencies soirée. you're quite right that this topic is "underutilized"; no other fucker seems to post much here, so hijack like a Somali pirate, i say.
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Further thread hijacking-but that TOTALLY excites me! Loved Dirk Gently Holistic Detective sooooooooo much! Thanks for that important info, and will be watching for it
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But then again, maybe we did. Guilty as charged. As for a title, I actually liked "A closer look reveals the human race" because it keeps the Dead lyric topic naming thing going, but it is a bit homo sapiens-centric so I'm good with Brother Badger's suggestion as well. A safe place for us to discuss perspectives on life that aren't deity dependent. Thanks for the props to Mike Edwards as well. At first blush, I liked your title suggestion as well, but there can be no denying that TigerLilly's observation and concerns have merit. As for apologies for past acts of bad faith jonapi, I'm not quite sure I see what the point is. No matter what Mr. Orwell might have suspected, you can't change the past, you can only change the future. I would only hope that those guilty would henceforth moderate their behavior and public posture to at least acknowledge that they and their adherents represent merely one of myriad possible perspectives and proceed accordingly. How is it that they put that thought? Oh yeah. Go, and sin no more.
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> Imagining there's no heaven means that we accept the concept that there IS one Not necessarily, it's easy to imagine a scenario in which heaven was imagined in the first place, but I can see how some people might read the line that way, TigerLilly. I'm not hung up on the name though; I'm a writer, which means I usually get things wrong before I get them right. Plus, it's hard not to like a Douglas Adams line, and especially an inclusive one like Life, the Universe and Everything.
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i'm beginning to doubt my own british humour now! (or else i'm tired, having just learnt of a sad death in the extended family, and have become a victim of my own dry approach to comedy!).i'm not sure what you meant by "past acts of bad faith..." etc., Mr. Pid; were you talking about my comments to CB about "upsetting people"? if so, i was pulling his english leg a little and joking with him!! or am i missing something else? that 5000 thing was because gratefaldean signed off with "thanks for all the fish" so i took a cheap shot and made fun of the feeding of the masses with one fish and a loaf of bread. all of my recent posts have been tongue in cheek and an excuse to be a tad cheeky; a pesky little scamp, nothing more. please don't take anything i say too seriously. i'm usually guilty of being too obtuse; i'm just being a wee prick that's all!! and definitely (or he better be!!), the badger is reveling in maintaining a "bland" stance as a facetious nod to my poor grammar (or grandad!!) in a post i made to his earlier reply!! i got confused and made some schoolboy punctuation-al errors that he's intent on highlighting in a most uncharitable fashion ha ha ha ha ha!!!!!!! good on 'im!!! that's what i'd do too ha ha!!!
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where the huskies go and don't you eat that yellowcake. The apology reference was (surprisingly on topic!) regarding your apparent and Mr. Hitchen's clear request that the Roman Catholic Church should set about apologizing everywhere to everyone about everything that they'd gotten wrong all these centuries. Really, what exactly is the point of that? Sorry, but that's baggage that they can't have some airline conveniently lose in transit in some far-flung corner of the world. It seems to me that it would be in their best interests to just stop collecting more items from that particular line of cheap Vuitton luggage. Perhaps I'm also guilty of being somewhat obtuse in my references as well, so continuing with that notion, since you raised the spectre of self-flagellation, I like the approach taken by the monks in The Grail. "Blow to the head or boot in the groin? I'll take the blow to the head, please."
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Is about 1100 words at this point. And most of it is just a schoolboy memory of mine. It may see the light of day, but I need to let it ferment a bit, I think, let it stew while I forget about it and then come back to it with fresh eyes. And read what says -- right now I'm reading what I THINK that I wrote, which I often find is not always the same as what I really did write. And the fish line cracked me up...I was still hanging in Douglas Adams-land, and you, Nakanopi, were actually on-topic.
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I was going to make a suggestion that everyone should have a big group hug and a nice cup of tea, but then I decided not to as it might be taken wrongly as a case of the bland leading the partially slighted. By the way, both Douglas Adams and Christopher Hitchens have published instructions for making a perfect cup of tea.
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you really are sulking aren't you, CB?!!!!! Lama-badgo?...... and love the fact that Mary started a new topic and no one has posted there yet for 2 days!! good work everyone!!
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yes, it was a beautiful blue sky day; the hint of hay in the air across the fields, sweet in the nose. spring entering the soul and radiating warmth. basking more appropriate than questioning, no? we must all think alike after all.....
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investigation into the human condition.connection to suffering. introspection and inward peace. science may learn, interact, join and explore.
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moving, thought provoking film featuring the fantastic Anthony Scher, Eddie Marsan and others. in Auschitz, jewish prisoners put God on trial in absentia for abandoning the Jewish people. the question is if God has broken his covenant with the Jeweish people by allowing the Nazis to commit genocide.
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...the so-called "Deadheads for Obama" have zero criticism of their hero for sending drones to Pakistan to kill "brown skin people" when they were so anxious to attack W, and me for supporting him on the old DNC MB, for his war against Islamofascists... J/K, we all know the answer to that question now don't we?
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let's not bother then, eh?!!!!
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see what I said to Pid in the "what would be the answer" thread. :)
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Please confine your trolling to the relevant topics. This is not one of them. Current events might be. Any further such posts here will be deleted.
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Testing, testing, this is just a test. The last post made on this forum on July 4, 2007?Or, am I being foolish on April Fool's? Post #1 on April 1st...Hmm.
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Just wanted to say thank you. I grew a lot from being here. I'm truly sorry for the bad things I've said in the past, but I hope I made people smle too. You sure made me laugh, thank you. So may God bless Bobby, Phil, Mickey, and Bill and all of you with love and peace. - trailbird brian
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I believe in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. I try very hard not to judge others and respect all persons beliefs. That's all, thank you very much Marye and deadnet for the opportunity to express that belief. ...when we make it to the Promised Laaanddd...
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Although Buddhist cultures all over the world celebrate the historical Buddha's milestones in different ways, it is the Tibetans who roll his birth, death and enlightenment into four weeks of celebration in a multifaceted event. On this day the merit from particularly moral acts supposedly increases by a factor of ten million. If you are a believer, as I am, then just tossing a beggar sitting on a city street corner a dollar bill could result in your future rebirth into a particularly wealthy family who would endow you with wealth worth more than $10 million dollars. But, of course, as with most religions, getting rich is not the point. Rather, remembering the historical figure who created massive amounts of good will and good, charitable acts is the real point. As is often said, accomplishing the good of others is providing provision for one's own future life. Shakyamuni Buddha was born over 2500 years ago in Lumbini, Nepal. He grew up a prince in a royal family who married and had a family. Becoming dissatisfied with every material thing and seeing sickness,old age and death convinced him to embark on a spiritual journey that eventually brought him to sit under the Bodhi Tree, unmoving, for seven years by the river Narayan in Bodh Gaya, India until he saw the morning star and became enlightened. He died not far away (relatively) in Kushinigar, India at the age of 82. His last words were: "All component things in the world are changeable. They are not lasting. Work hard to gain your own salvation." Unlike many other religious figures who proclaimed themselves Gods or Sons of God, Shakamuni Buddha simply said for those who were curious it would be best to test his theories and if they worked perhaps they could be put into practice.
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I'm just starting to poke around this forum, not sure how active anyone still is
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Through an unlikely series of events, my sister had a handful of Sunday night tickets to distribute on very short notice. She was pleased to discover that Deadheads really are everywhere. Not knowing how people would respond, she began asking various contacts about their possible interest in tickets, and was surprised at those who immediately replied, "Yes, I will meet you any place at any hour to receive tickets". No one here would be surprised that she would find this response, but she did not who in her range of acquaintances would be those folks. Only on a hunch did she contact her former downstairs neighbor, a person she thought she knew well after many years sharing a building. Or the fellow doing work on her house. Or the friend of our brother, who only found out that our brother was going to the show when did not show up to play guitar with him at church on Sunday morning. Some inquiries and quick calls by the guitar player, just hours before the show, ended up with him learning that, miracle of miracles, Yes, there was one more ticket available. This gets me to thinking that every town in America ought to have an event when Deadheads can come out and get acquainted. I expect that there will be many more Dead nights at pubs and such, but we surely need a way to find each other.
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I love the steal your face with the cross! I am a Catholic deadhead, which seems to stump everyone i know... everyone who isn't a deadhead, that is... i think most people who listen to the music realize that the notes played, pointed onward and outward... towards a bit of the transcendent. Anyways... it's good to see evidence that i'm not alone in loving God and loving the music of the dead:) Seeing the last show in Chicago a few weeks ago brought be back home. Peace and love to you all.