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    marye
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    In one of the other topics, one of the folks seemed not to be so sure of the reception he'd get for saying he was a youth minister at his church. In my experience, Deadheads span the full spectrum from Agnostic to Zoroastrian. I've met atheist Deadheads, Muslim Deadheads, Buddhist Deadheads, Catholic Deadheads, Jewish Deadheads, and Wiccan Deadheads. My Deadhead friends are all over the map on this stuff, and as far as I'm concerned one of the real richnesses of the scene is the ability to see how things look to other folks and, sometimes, experience it from their world. Believe it if you need it, if you don't, just pass it on. But talk about it here, and please maintain a safe respectful place to do so.

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  • marye
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    seriously.
    the part about Hunter being on tour was a dead giveaway... alas. People have been saying all kinds of loony stuff about the Dead since forever, and it's pretty much the case that you can find someone in the scene connected to pretty much anything over the span of 40-some years, and what it all means is probably pretty much in the eye of the beholder. Especially from the perspective of hindsight. I mean, it would be darn tough to reduce Owsley Stanley to a quickie formula like "Satanist CIA plot." Though I'm sure some have tried. And he's one guy in a real complex scene of notoriously freethinking types. So pay attention, and don't lose your critical thinking skills, but don't make yourself nuts, either. That would be my opinion anyway.
  • TigerLilly
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    Sherbear <3
    TOTALLY interesting and informational post on masons! :) But yeah Gonzo was being ironic about masons being satanists :)
  • Anonymous (not verified)
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    @Sherbear
    I don't think my post was the offending one. I was making the point that Masonry has nothing to do with Satanism and the temple near me is in decline though they do many good things for the poor and elderly in their community. I think the posts that should have been deleted are the ones that linked Masonry and Satanism. In fact, I was commenting on the illegitimacy of linking the two.
  • sherbear
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  • sherbear
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    I love the FreeMasons and for one to insult by false association to some evil thing is not only misguided but hurtful. Mason's are some of the greatest men to ever walk this earth. I have been raised by one and he is, always has been and will never cease to be one the greatest men in the world. The kindest, most generous, loving, faithful, dedicated, trustworthy, hard-working, truth-seeking, friend of all, beloved, unblemished individuals I have ever met. And I am proud to emulate him at every given chance. Our local Masons have contributed to every field of study, make break-though scientific research and surgeries to heal and nuture the sick and prevent death as Doctors do. For any post to reflect a Freemason associated with any malpractice on children or organ donations should be removed. (Might be time to clean up the house.) I will post true and accurate information about the Masons in a moment and it should all be read. AND WHEN YOU GET TO THE PART THAT READS.... When is a Man a Mason? Then decide if that's the kind of man you speak of? And how could you judge if you don't even know? To be a child of a Mason is the greatest honor known to many, I included. Straight sober tonight and not thowing punches just making a point.. WHAT IS A FREE & ACCEPTED MASON What’s a Mason? That’s not a surprising question. Even though Masons (Freemasons) are members of the largest and oldest fraternity in the world, and even though almost everyone has a father or grandfather or uncle who was a Mason, many people aren’t quite certain just who Masons are. The answer is simple. A Mason (or Freemason) is a member of a fraternity known as Masonry (or Freemasonry). A fraternity is a group of men (just as a sorority is a group of women) who join together because: •There are things they want to do in the world. •There are things they want to do “inside their own minds.” •They enjoy being together with men they like and respect. (We’ll look at some of these things later.) What’s Masonry? Masonry (or Freemasonry) is the oldest fraternity in the world. No one knows just how old it is because the actual origins have been lost in time. Probably, it arose from the guilds of stonemasons who built the castles and cathedrals of the Middle Ages. Possibly, they were influenced by the Knights Templar, a group of Christian warrior monks formed in 1118 to help protect pilgrims making trips to the Holy Land. In 1717, Masonry created a formal organization in England when the first Grand Lodge was formed. A Grand Lodge is the administrative body in charge of Masonry in some geographical area. In the United States, there is a Grand Lodge in each state. In Canada, there is a Grand Lodge in each province. Local organizations of Masons are called lodges. There are lodges in most towns, and large cities usually have several. There are about 13,200 lodges in the United States. If Masonry started in Great Britain, how did it get to America? In a time when travel was by horseback and sailing ship, Masonry spread with amazing speed. By 1731, when Benjamin Franklin joined the fraternity, there were already several lodges in the Colonies, and Masonry spread rapidly as America expanded west. In addition to Franklin, many of the Founding Fathers — men such as George Washington, Paul Revere, Joseph Warren, and John Hancock — were Masons. Masons and Masonry played an important part in the Revolutionary War and an even more important part in the Constitutional Convention and the debates surrounding the ratification of the Bill of Rights. Many of those debates were held in Masonic lodges. What’s a lodge? The word “lodge” means both a group of Masons meeting in some place and the room or building in which they meet. Masonic buildings are also sometimes called “temples” because much of the symbolism Masonry uses to teach its lessons comes from the building of King Solomon’s Temple in the Holy Land. The term “lodge” itself comes from the structures which the stonemasons built against the sides of the cathedrals during construction. In winter, when building had to stop, they lived in these lodges and worked at carving stone. While there is some variation in detail from state to state and country to country, lodge rooms today are set up similar to the diagram on the following page. If you’ve ever watched C-SPAN’s coverage of the House of Commons in London, you’ll notice that the layout is about the same. Since Masonry came to America from England, we still use the English floor plan and English titles for the officers. The Worshipful Master of the Lodge sits in the East (“Worshipful” is an English term of respect which means the same thing as “Honorable.”) He is called the Master of the lodge for the same reason that the leader of an orchestra is called the “Concert Master.” It’s simply an older term for “Leader.” In other organizations, he would be called “President.” The Senior and Junior Wardens are the First and Second Vice-Presidents. The Deacons are messengers and the Stewards have charge of refreshments. Every lodge has an altar holding a “Volume of the Sacred Law.” In the United States and Canada, that is almost always a Bible. What goes on in a lodge? This is a good place to repeat what we said earlier about why men become Masons: •There are things they want to do in the world. •There are things they want to do “inside their own minds.” •They enjoy being together with men they like and respect. The Lodge is the center of those activities. Masonry Does Things in the World. Masonry teaches that each person has a responsibility to make things better in the world. Most individuals won’t be the ones to find a cure for cancer, or eliminate poverty, or help create world peace, but every man and woman and child can do something to help others and to make things a little better. Masonry is deeply involved with helping people — it spends more than $1.4 million dollars every day in the United States, just to make life a little easier. And the great majority of that help goes to people who are not Masons. Some of these charities are vast projects, like the Crippled Children’s Hospitals and Burns Institutes built by the Shriners. Also, Scottish Rite Masons maintain a nationwide network of over 100 Childhood Language Disorders Clinics, Centers, and Programs. Each helps children afflicted by such conditions as aphasia, dyslexia, stuttering, and related learning or speech disorders. Some services are less noticeable, like helping a widow pay her electric bill or buying coats and shoes for disadvantaged children. And there’s just about anything you can think of in-between. But with projects large or small, the Masons of a lodge try to help make the world a better place. The lodge gives them a way to combine with others to do even more good. Masonry does things “inside” the individual Mason. “Grow or die” is a great law of all nature. Most people feel a need for continued growth and development as individuals. They feel they are not as honest or as charitable or as compassionate or as loving or as trusting as they ought to be. Masonry reminds its members over and over again of the importance of these qualities. It lets men associate with other men of honor and integrity who believe that things like honesty and compassion and love and trust are important. In some ways, Masonry is a support group for men who are trying to make the right decisions. It’s easier to practice these virtues when you know that those around you think they are important, too, and won’t laugh at you. That’s a major reason that Masons enjoy being together. Masons enjoy each other’s company. It’s good to spend time with people you can trust completely, and most Masons find that in their lodge. While much of lodge activity is spent in works of charity or in lessons in self-development, much is also spent in fellowship. Lodges have picnics, camping trips, and many events for the whole family. Simply put, a lodge is a place to spend time with friends. For members only, two basic kinds of meetings take place in a lodge. The most common is a simple business meeting. To open and close the meeting, there is a ceremony whose purpose is to remind us of the virtues by which we are supposed to live. Then there is a reading of the minutes; voting on petitions (applications of men who want to join the fraternity); planning for charitable functions, family events, and other lodge activities; and sharing information about members (called “Brothers,” as in most fraternities) who are ill or have some sort of need. The other kind of meeting is one in which people join the fraternity — one at which the “degrees” are performed. But every lodge serves more than its own members. Frequently, there are meetings open to the public. Examples are Ladies’ Nights, “Brother Bring a Friend Nights,” public installations of officers, Cornerstone Laying ceremonies, and other special meetings supporting community events and dealing with topics of local interest. Masons also sponsor Ladies groups such as The Order of Eastern Star and Amaranth, and Youth Groups such as Triangle, Rainbow, Constellation, Job’s Daughters; for girls, and Order of DeMolay for Boys. What’s a degree? A degree is a stage or level of membership. It’s also the ceremony by which a man attains that level of membership. There are three, called Entered Apprentice, Fellowcraft, and Master Mason. As you can see, the names are taken from the craft guilds. In the Middle Ages, when a person wanted to join a craft, such as the gold smiths or the carpenters or the stonemasons, he was first apprenticed. As an apprentice, he learned the tools and skills of the trade. When he had proved his skills, he became a “Fellow of the Craft” (today we would say “Journeyman”), and when he had exceptional ability, he was known as a Master of the Craft. The degrees are plays in which the candidate participates. Each degree uses symbols to teach, just as plays did in the Middle Ages and as many theatrical productions do today. (We’ll talk about symbols a little later.) The Masonic degrees teach the great lessons of life — the importance of honor and integrity, of being a person on whom others can rely, of being both trusting and trustworthy, of realizing that you have a spiritual nature as well as a physical or animal nature, of the importance of self-control, of knowing how to love and be loved, of knowing how to keep confidential what others tell you so that they can “open up” without fear. Why is Masonry so “secretive”? It really isn’t “secretive,” although it sometimes has that reputation. Masons certainly don’t make a secret of the fact that they are members of the fraternity. We wear rings, lapel pins and tie tacks with Masonic emblems like the Square and Compasses, the best known of Masonic signs which, logically, recalls the fraternity’s roots in stonemasonry. Masonic buildings are clearly marked, and are usually listed in the phone book. Lodge activities are not secret picnics and other events are even listed in the newspapers, especially in smaller towns. Many lodges have answering machines which give the upcoming lodge activities. But there are some Masonic secrets, and they fall into two categories. The first are the ways in which a man can identify himself as a Mason — grips and passwords. We keep those private for obvious reasons. It is not at all unknown for unscrupulous people to try to pass themselves off as Masons in order to get assistance under false pretenses. The second group is harder to describe, but they are the ones Masons usually mean if we talk about “Masonic secrets.” They are secrets because they literally can’t be talked about, can’t be put into words. They are the changes that happen to a man when he really accepts responsibility for his own life and, at the same time, truly decides that his real happiness is in helping others. It’s a wonderful feeling, but it’s something you simply can’t explain to another person. That’s why we sometimes say that Masonic secrets cannot ( rather than “may not”) be told. Try telling someone exactly what you feel when you see a beautiful sunset, or when you hear music, like the national anthem, which suddenly stirs old memories, and you’ll understand what we mean. “Secret societies” became very popular in America in the late 1800s and early 1900s. There were literally hundreds of them, and most people belonged to two or three. Many of them were modeled on Masonry, and made a great point of having many “secrets.” And Masonry got ranked with them. But if Masonry is a secret society, it’s the worst-kept secret in town. For an example see the WABC-TV, Channel 7, New York City news report (streaming video RealPlayer required) that aired in May 1994 Is Masonry a religion? The answer to that question is simple. No. We do use ritual in the meetings, and because there is always an altar or table with the Volume of the Sacred Law open if a lodge is meeting, some people have confused Masonry with a religion, but it is not. That does not mean that religion plays no part in Masonry — it plays a very important part. A person who wants to become a Mason must have a belief in God. No atheist can ever become a Mason. Meetings open with prayer, and a Mason is taught, as one of the first lessons of Masonry, that one should pray for divine counsel and guidance before starting an important undertaking. But that does not make Masonry a “religion.” Sometimes people confuse Masonry with a religion because we call some Masonic buildings “temples.” But we use the word in the same sense that Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes called the Supreme Court a “Temple of Justice” and because a Masonic lodge is a symbol of the Temple of Solomon. Neither Masonry nor the Supreme Court is a religion just because its members meet in a “temple.” In some ways, the relationship between Masonry and religion is like the relationship between the Parent-Teacher Association (the P.T.A.) and education. Members of the P.T.A. believe in the importance of education. They support it. They assert that no man or woman can be a complete and whole individual or live up to his or her full potential without education. They encourage students to stay in school and parents to be involved with the education of their children. They may give scholarships. They encourage their members to get involved with and support their individual schools. But there are some things P.T.A.s do not do. They don’t teach. They don’t tell people which school to attend. They don’t try to tell people what they should study or what their major should be. In much the same way, Masons believe in the importance of religion. Masonry encourages every Mason to be active in the religion and church of his own choice. Masonry teaches that, without religion, a man is alone and lost, and that without religion, he can never reach his full potential. But Freemasonry does not tell a person which religion he should practice or how he should practice it. That is between the individual and God. That is the function of his house of worship, not his fraternity. And Masonry is a fraternity, not a religion. What is a Masonic Bible? Bibles are popular gifts among Masons, frequently given to a man when he joins the lodge or at other special events. A Masonic Bible is the same book anyone thinks of as a Bible (it’s usually the King James translation) with a special page in the front on which to write the name of the person who is receiving it and the occasion on which it is given. Sometimes there is a special index or information section which shows the person where in the Bible to find the passages which are quoted in the Masonic ritual. If Masonry isn’t a religion, why does it use ritual? Many of us may think of religion when we think of ritual, but ritual is used in every aspect of life. It’s so much a part of us that we just don’t notice it. Ritual simply means that some things are done more or less the same way each time. Almost all school assemblies, for example, start with the principal or some other official calling for the attention of the group. Then the group is led in the Pledge of Allegiance. A school choir or the entire group may sing the school song. That’s a ritual. Almost all business meetings of every sort call the group to order, have a reading of the minutes of the last meeting, deal with old business, then with new business. That’s a ritual. Most groups use Robert’s Rules of Order to conduct a meeting. That’s probably the best-known book of ritual in the world. There are social rituals which tell us how to meet people (we shake hands), how to join a conversation (we wait for a pause, and then speak), how to buy tickets to a concert (we wait in line and don’t push in ahead of those who were there first). There are literally hundreds of examples, and they are all rituals. Masonry uses a ritual because it’s an effective way to teach important ideas — the values we’ve talked about earlier. And it reminds us where we are, just as the ritual of a business meeting reminds people where they are and what they are supposed to be doing. Masonry’s ritual is very rich because it is so old. It has developed over centuries to contain some beautiful language and ideas expressed in symbols. But there’s nothing unusual in using ritual. All of us do it every day. Why does Masonry use symbols? Everyone uses symbols every day, just as we do ritual. We use them because they communicate quickly. When you see a stop sign , you know what it means, even if you can’t read the word “stop.” The circle and line mean “don’t” or “not allowed.” In fact, using symbols is probably the oldest way of communication and the oldest way of teaching. Masonry uses symbols for the same reason. Some form of the “Square and Compasses” is the most widely used and known symbol of Masonry. In one way, this symbol is a kind of trademark for the fraternity, as the “golden arches” are for McDonald’s. When you see the Square and Compasses on a building, you know that Masons meet there. And like all symbols, they have a meaning. The Square symbolizes things of the earth, and it also symbolizes honor, integrity, truthfulness, and the other ways we should relate to this world and the people in it. The Compasses symbolize things of the spirit, and the importance of a well-developed spiritual life, and also the importance of self-control — of keeping ourselves within bounds. The G stands for Geometry, the science which the ancients believed most revealed the glory of God and His works in the heavens, and it also stands for God, Who must be at the center of all our thoughts and of all our efforts. The meanings of most of the other Masonic symbols are obvious. The gavel teaches the importance of self-control and self-discipline. The hourglass teaches us that time is always passing, and we should not put off important decisions. So, is Masonry education? Yes. In a very real sense, education is at the center of Masonry. We have stressed its importance for a very long time. Back in the Middle Ages, schools were held in the lodges of stonemasons. You have to know a lot to build a cathedral — geometry, and structural engineering, and mathematics, just for a start. And that education was not very widely available. All the formal schools and colleges trained people for careers in the church, or in law or medicine. And you had to be a member of the social upper classes to go to those schools. Stonemasons did not come from the aristocracy. And so the lodges had to teach the necessary skills and information. Freemasonry’s dedication to education started there. It has continued. Masons started some of the first public schools in both Europe and America. We supported legislation to make education universal. In the 1800s Masons as a group lobbied for the establishment of state supported education and federal land grant colleges. Today we give millions of dollars in scholarships each year. We encourage our members to give volunteer time to their local schools, buy classroom supplies for teachers, help with literacy programs, and do everything they can to help assure that each person, adult or child, has the best educational opportunities possible. And Masonry supports continuing education and intellectual growth for its members, insisting that learning more about many things is important for anyone who wants to keep mentally alert and young. What does Masonry teach? Masonry teaches some important principles. There’s nothing very surprising in the list. Masonry teaches that: Since God is the Creator, all men and women are the children of God. Because of that, all men and women are brothers and sisters, entitled to dignity, respect for their opinions, and consideration of their feelings. Each person must take responsibility for his/her own life and actions. Neither wealth nor poverty, education nor ignorance, health nor sickness excuses any person from doing the best he or she can do or being the best person possible under the circumstances. No one has the right to tell another person what he or she must think or believe. Each man and woman has an absolute right to intellectual, spiritual, economic, and political freedom. This is a right given by God, not by man. All tyranny, in every form, is illegitimate. Each person must learn and practice self-control. Each person must make sure his spiritual nature triumphs over his animal nature. Another way to say the same thing is that even when we are tempted to anger, we must not be violent. Even when we are tempted to selfishness, we must be charitable. Even when we want to “write someone off,” we must remember that he or she is a human and entitled to our respect. Even when we want to give up, we must go on. Even when we are hated, we must return love, or, at a minimum, we must not hate back. It isn’t easy! Faith must be in the center of our lives. We find that faith in our houses of worship, not in Freemasonry, but Masonry constantly teaches that a person’s faith, whatever it may be, is central to a good life. Each person has a responsibly to be a good citizen, obeying the law. That doesn’t mean we can’t try to change things, but change must take place in legal ways. It is important to work to make this world better for all who live in it. Masonry teaches the importance of doing good, not because it assures a person’s entrance into heaven — that’s a question for a religion, not a fraternity — but because we have a duty to all other men and women to make their lives as fulfilling as they can be. Honor and integrity are essential to life. Life, without honor and integrity, is without meaning. What are the requirements for membership? The person who wants to join Masonry must be a man (it’s a fraternity), sound in body and mind, who believes in God, is at least the minimum age required by Masonry in his state, and has a good reputation. (Incidentally, the “sound in body” requirement — which comes from the stonemasons of the Middle Ages — doesn’t mean that a physically challenged man cannot be a Mason; many are). Those are the only “formal” requirements. But there are others, not so formal. He should believe in helping others. He should believe there is more to life than pleasure and money. He should be willing to respect the opinions of others. And he should want to grow and develop as a human being. How does a man become a Mason? Some men are surprised that no one has ever asked them to become a Mason. They may even feel that the Masons in their town don’t think they are “good enough” to join. But it doesn’t work that way. For hundreds of years, Masons have been forbidden to ask others to join the fraternity. We can talk to friends about Masonry, we can tell them about what Masonry does. We can tell them why we enjoy it. But we can’t ask, much less pressure anyone to join. There’s a good reason for that. It isn’t that we’re trying to be exclusive. But becoming a Mason is a very serious thing. Joining Masonry is making a permanent life commitment to live in certain ways. We’ve listed most of them above — to live with honor and integrity, to be willing to share and care about others, to trust each other, and to place ultimate trust in God. No one should be “talked into” making such a decision. So, when a man decides he wants to be a Mason, he asks a Mason for a petition or application. He fills it out and gives it to the Mason, and that Mason takes it to the local lodge. The Master of the lodge will appoint a committee to visit with the man and his family, find out a little about him and why he wants to be a Mason, tell him and his family about Masonry, and answer their questions. The committee reports to the lodge, and the lodge votes on the petition. If the vote is affirmative — and it usually is — the lodge will contact the man to set the date for the Entered Apprentice Degree. When the person has completed all three degrees, he is a Master Mason and a full member of the fraternity. So, what’s a Mason? A Mason is a man who has decided that he likes to feel good about himself and others. He cares about the future as well as the past, and does what he can, both alone and with others, to make the future good for everyone. Many men over many generations have answered the question, “What is a Mason?” One of the most eloquent was written by the Reverend Joseph Fort Newton, an internationally honored minister of the first half of the 20th Century. When is a man a Mason? When he can look out over the rivers, the hills, and the far horizon with a profound sense of his own littleness in the vast scheme of things, and yet have faith, hope, and courage which is the root of every virtue. When he knows that down in his heart every man is as noble, as vile, as divine, as diabolic, and as lonely as himself, and seeks to know, to forgive, and to love his fellow man. When he knows how to sympathize with men in their sorrows, yea, even in their sins knowing that each man fights a hard fight against many odds. When he has learned how to make friends and to keep them, and above all how to keep friends with himself When he loves flowers, can hunt birds without a gun, and feels the thrill of an old forgotten joy when he hears the laugh of a little child. When he can be happy and high-minded amid the meaner drudgeries of life. When star-crowned trees and the glint of sunlight on flowing waters, subdue him like the thought of one much loved and long dead. When no voice of distress reaches his ears in vain, and no hand seeks his aid without response. When he finds good in every faith that helps any man to lay hold of divine things and sees majestic meanings in life, whatever the name of that faith may be. When he can look into a wayside puddle and see something beyond mud, and into the face of the most forlorn fellow mortal and see something beyond sin. When he knows how to pray, how to love, how to hope. When he has kept faith with himself with his fellow man, and with his God; in his hand a sword for evil, in his heart a bit of a song — glad to live, but not afraid to die! Such a man has found the only real secret of Masonry, and the one which it is trying to give to all the world. There is a booklet by the same name produced by The Masonic Information Center, a division of the Masonic Service association. Its numerous illustrations have not been included as it would considerably delay file loading. To obtain illustrated copies @ $0.25 each (PPD); 40% discount in lots of 50 or more copies, plus shipping/handling, contact: Masonic Service Center 8120 Fenton Street Silver Spring, MD 20910-4785 Tel (301) 588-4010 ; Fax (301) 608-3457 Masonic Resources in New York •Brotherhood Fund •Camp Turk •DeMolay •DeWint House •Empire State Mason •Genealogy Requests •Livingston Library •Masonic Care Community •Masonic Medical Research Laboratory •MORI •MUNY(MOODLE) •New York Masonic Safety Identification Program (ChildID) •Surviving Spouses Committee •Youth Committee •ChildID Event Calendar •Atholl1781 Yahoo Group Mail List •Lodge Locator ..I Love You, All, xo! --------------------(-------@
  • TigerLilly
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    gonzo
    RAW was at DragonCon (fantasy game con) w/ Timothy Leary, in musta been 92. They were great, and was at a small group panel discussion with them. Same con where I bounced off Shatner's belly in 09 :D Back to discussing religion.
  • marye
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    dang...
    I just saw the part about Hunter being on tour... too bad. It was nice to believe it for a minute.
  • Anonymous (not verified)
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    Yes, would somebody stand up from the inner circle...
    ...say perhaps Blair Jackson, and give Ray-Ray a definitive assertion from the inner circle regarding these matters? My comments hardly represent 'the truth" in this matter.
  • Anonymous (not verified)
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    Hey Lilly
    I've heard Robert Anton Wilson speak and it's cool for me to say "The Grateful Dead pulled my cosmic trigger!
  • TigerLilly
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    gonzo
    also ran into your very long post in a forum -exact same text, while I was googling around, and yeah, whoever wrote it is a moron. starting with that while masons have pagan-based rituals involved, and also symbols, they are not satanists. And let's talk about satanism itself for a second. Originally Lucifer was a fallen angel, ach nevermind. Would have to get very long and deep to explain what is on my mind, and think am not up for it. but I will say put a bit of research into Satanism Ray Ray, cuz not all "satanists" are evil.
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In one of the other topics, one of the folks seemed not to be so sure of the reception he'd get for saying he was a youth minister at his church. In my experience, Deadheads span the full spectrum from Agnostic to Zoroastrian. I've met atheist Deadheads, Muslim Deadheads, Buddhist Deadheads, Catholic Deadheads, Jewish Deadheads, and Wiccan Deadheads. My Deadhead friends are all over the map on this stuff, and as far as I'm concerned one of the real richnesses of the scene is the ability to see how things look to other folks and, sometimes, experience it from their world. Believe it if you need it, if you don't, just pass it on. But talk about it here, and please maintain a safe respectful place to do so.
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I just think that everyone should respect and accept everyone else's opinion and just be kind and gentle with eachother and listen to the Grateful Dead.
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lemme know if you want the new topic started and what you want it called if so...
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could my suggestions be appropriate?....just a little joshing, that's all!!!
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yer scarin' me...
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I'll second Mr. Pid's proposal: "General philosophy...for those who have no use for Religion and don't mind saying so...all points of view are fair game, discussion encouraged, but flaming, hate speech and ad hominem attacks, no." My suggestion for a name is Imagine There's No Heaven.
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means that we accept the concept that there IS one, thus STILL based in Christianity, so personally I vote no to that one for a non-religious philosophy thread. How about: Deep Philosophical Thoughts
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'Life, the Universe and Everything'
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Mark 7:15 "There is nothing that enters a man from outside that can defile him, but the things that come out of him, those are the things that defile him" For example if a guy drinks whiskey and gets sleepy, and another drinks milk and gets mean, which one is sinning?
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for Badger's title! Works for me!
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yeah, i'll go with that too. first post should be why he feels the need to upset people so.........ha ha ha ha!!!!!!!!!!
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I agree because everybody has the right to have any opinion about anything so long as it is kynde and nice.
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badger's gonna go all honeybadger on you one day! :D
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ha ha!!does that mean he "just doesn't give a shit...Cosmic Badger's crazy...he's a bad ass...he just doesn't give a shit"!!!!!!! or does it mean he's going to smother me in sticky nectar and use that long moist tongue of his......
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17 years 4 months
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I think we should be kind and thoughtful and not smother the space set aside for our believing brethren and sistren.
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bland or sulking?!!!!
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17 years 4 months
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Is fine by me. Though we could then just cut to the chase and post "42" and end the discussion right there. I have been staying away from commenting on this thread, as I'm concerned about hijacking it away from its "mission statement" and its intended audience...though it seems the topic seems a bit underutilized lately. I had started working on what was intended as a letter to the editor of my local paper on the subject of government-sponsored prayer, a very hot hot-button issue on the local level these days in my neck of the Bible belt. But the letter turned into a much-too-long essay that I'm guessing wouldn't be accepted as a "guest column." Nearly posted on Facebook, and like the jonaPancake guy here, had second thoughts after I read it over. Still pondering it... Regardless, thanks for all the fish!
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don't you mean ONE fish, singular, gratefaldean? there's enough for 5000 there, surely?........!!!get a loaf of bread off a boy while you're at it! by the way, a spanking new series on the BBC of Douglas Adams' Dirk Gently detective is starting soon. Stephen Mangan is a great actor (all too sadly under-written for since the glorious and must-see Green Wing). and by the way, here would be the perfect place for that letter!! come come deano old bean, reveal all! sounds mighty intriguing to these ears. the words "government sponsored prayer" should NEVER be used in that formation and order, and, if they ever are, a shudder should rattle the spine like an ill-advised stage dive at Black Flag concert. or a Suicidal Tendencies soirée. you're quite right that this topic is "underutilized"; no other fucker seems to post much here, so hijack like a Somali pirate, i say.
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17 years 3 months
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Further thread hijacking-but that TOTALLY excites me! Loved Dirk Gently Holistic Detective sooooooooo much! Thanks for that important info, and will be watching for it
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16 years 10 months
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But then again, maybe we did. Guilty as charged. As for a title, I actually liked "A closer look reveals the human race" because it keeps the Dead lyric topic naming thing going, but it is a bit homo sapiens-centric so I'm good with Brother Badger's suggestion as well. A safe place for us to discuss perspectives on life that aren't deity dependent. Thanks for the props to Mike Edwards as well. At first blush, I liked your title suggestion as well, but there can be no denying that TigerLilly's observation and concerns have merit. As for apologies for past acts of bad faith jonapi, I'm not quite sure I see what the point is. No matter what Mr. Orwell might have suspected, you can't change the past, you can only change the future. I would only hope that those guilty would henceforth moderate their behavior and public posture to at least acknowledge that they and their adherents represent merely one of myriad possible perspectives and proceed accordingly. How is it that they put that thought? Oh yeah. Go, and sin no more.
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17 years 4 months
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> Imagining there's no heaven means that we accept the concept that there IS one Not necessarily, it's easy to imagine a scenario in which heaven was imagined in the first place, but I can see how some people might read the line that way, TigerLilly. I'm not hung up on the name though; I'm a writer, which means I usually get things wrong before I get them right. Plus, it's hard not to like a Douglas Adams line, and especially an inclusive one like Life, the Universe and Everything.
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i'm beginning to doubt my own british humour now! (or else i'm tired, having just learnt of a sad death in the extended family, and have become a victim of my own dry approach to comedy!).i'm not sure what you meant by "past acts of bad faith..." etc., Mr. Pid; were you talking about my comments to CB about "upsetting people"? if so, i was pulling his english leg a little and joking with him!! or am i missing something else? that 5000 thing was because gratefaldean signed off with "thanks for all the fish" so i took a cheap shot and made fun of the feeding of the masses with one fish and a loaf of bread. all of my recent posts have been tongue in cheek and an excuse to be a tad cheeky; a pesky little scamp, nothing more. please don't take anything i say too seriously. i'm usually guilty of being too obtuse; i'm just being a wee prick that's all!! and definitely (or he better be!!), the badger is reveling in maintaining a "bland" stance as a facetious nod to my poor grammar (or grandad!!) in a post i made to his earlier reply!! i got confused and made some schoolboy punctuation-al errors that he's intent on highlighting in a most uncharitable fashion ha ha ha ha ha!!!!!!! good on 'im!!! that's what i'd do too ha ha!!!
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16 years 10 months
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where the huskies go and don't you eat that yellowcake. The apology reference was (surprisingly on topic!) regarding your apparent and Mr. Hitchen's clear request that the Roman Catholic Church should set about apologizing everywhere to everyone about everything that they'd gotten wrong all these centuries. Really, what exactly is the point of that? Sorry, but that's baggage that they can't have some airline conveniently lose in transit in some far-flung corner of the world. It seems to me that it would be in their best interests to just stop collecting more items from that particular line of cheap Vuitton luggage. Perhaps I'm also guilty of being somewhat obtuse in my references as well, so continuing with that notion, since you raised the spectre of self-flagellation, I like the approach taken by the monks in The Grail. "Blow to the head or boot in the groin? I'll take the blow to the head, please."
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17 years 4 months
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Is about 1100 words at this point. And most of it is just a schoolboy memory of mine. It may see the light of day, but I need to let it ferment a bit, I think, let it stew while I forget about it and then come back to it with fresh eyes. And read what says -- right now I'm reading what I THINK that I wrote, which I often find is not always the same as what I really did write. And the fish line cracked me up...I was still hanging in Douglas Adams-land, and you, Nakanopi, were actually on-topic.
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I was going to make a suggestion that everyone should have a big group hug and a nice cup of tea, but then I decided not to as it might be taken wrongly as a case of the bland leading the partially slighted. By the way, both Douglas Adams and Christopher Hitchens have published instructions for making a perfect cup of tea.
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you really are sulking aren't you, CB?!!!!! Lama-badgo?...... and love the fact that Mary started a new topic and no one has posted there yet for 2 days!! good work everyone!!
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yes, it was a beautiful blue sky day; the hint of hay in the air across the fields, sweet in the nose. spring entering the soul and radiating warmth. basking more appropriate than questioning, no? we must all think alike after all.....
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investigation into the human condition.connection to suffering. introspection and inward peace. science may learn, interact, join and explore.
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moving, thought provoking film featuring the fantastic Anthony Scher, Eddie Marsan and others. in Auschitz, jewish prisoners put God on trial in absentia for abandoning the Jewish people. the question is if God has broken his covenant with the Jeweish people by allowing the Nazis to commit genocide.
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15 years
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...the so-called "Deadheads for Obama" have zero criticism of their hero for sending drones to Pakistan to kill "brown skin people" when they were so anxious to attack W, and me for supporting him on the old DNC MB, for his war against Islamofascists... J/K, we all know the answer to that question now don't we?
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let's not bother then, eh?!!!!
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17 years 3 months
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see what I said to Pid in the "what would be the answer" thread. :)
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17 years 5 months
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Please confine your trolling to the relevant topics. This is not one of them. Current events might be. Any further such posts here will be deleted.
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12 years 7 months
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Testing, testing, this is just a test. The last post made on this forum on July 4, 2007?Or, am I being foolish on April Fool's? Post #1 on April 1st...Hmm.
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13 years 9 months
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Just wanted to say thank you. I grew a lot from being here. I'm truly sorry for the bad things I've said in the past, but I hope I made people smle too. You sure made me laugh, thank you. So may God bless Bobby, Phil, Mickey, and Bill and all of you with love and peace. - trailbird brian
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13 years 9 months
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I believe in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. I try very hard not to judge others and respect all persons beliefs. That's all, thank you very much Marye and deadnet for the opportunity to express that belief. ...when we make it to the Promised Laaanddd...
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14 years 10 months
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Although Buddhist cultures all over the world celebrate the historical Buddha's milestones in different ways, it is the Tibetans who roll his birth, death and enlightenment into four weeks of celebration in a multifaceted event. On this day the merit from particularly moral acts supposedly increases by a factor of ten million. If you are a believer, as I am, then just tossing a beggar sitting on a city street corner a dollar bill could result in your future rebirth into a particularly wealthy family who would endow you with wealth worth more than $10 million dollars. But, of course, as with most religions, getting rich is not the point. Rather, remembering the historical figure who created massive amounts of good will and good, charitable acts is the real point. As is often said, accomplishing the good of others is providing provision for one's own future life. Shakyamuni Buddha was born over 2500 years ago in Lumbini, Nepal. He grew up a prince in a royal family who married and had a family. Becoming dissatisfied with every material thing and seeing sickness,old age and death convinced him to embark on a spiritual journey that eventually brought him to sit under the Bodhi Tree, unmoving, for seven years by the river Narayan in Bodh Gaya, India until he saw the morning star and became enlightened. He died not far away (relatively) in Kushinigar, India at the age of 82. His last words were: "All component things in the world are changeable. They are not lasting. Work hard to gain your own salvation." Unlike many other religious figures who proclaimed themselves Gods or Sons of God, Shakamuni Buddha simply said for those who were curious it would be best to test his theories and if they worked perhaps they could be put into practice.
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13 years 7 months
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I'm just starting to poke around this forum, not sure how active anyone still is
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13 years 7 months
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Through an unlikely series of events, my sister had a handful of Sunday night tickets to distribute on very short notice. She was pleased to discover that Deadheads really are everywhere. Not knowing how people would respond, she began asking various contacts about their possible interest in tickets, and was surprised at those who immediately replied, "Yes, I will meet you any place at any hour to receive tickets". No one here would be surprised that she would find this response, but she did not who in her range of acquaintances would be those folks. Only on a hunch did she contact her former downstairs neighbor, a person she thought she knew well after many years sharing a building. Or the fellow doing work on her house. Or the friend of our brother, who only found out that our brother was going to the show when did not show up to play guitar with him at church on Sunday morning. Some inquiries and quick calls by the guitar player, just hours before the show, ended up with him learning that, miracle of miracles, Yes, there was one more ticket available. This gets me to thinking that every town in America ought to have an event when Deadheads can come out and get acquainted. I expect that there will be many more Dead nights at pubs and such, but we surely need a way to find each other.
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9 years 3 months
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I love the steal your face with the cross! I am a Catholic deadhead, which seems to stump everyone i know... everyone who isn't a deadhead, that is... i think most people who listen to the music realize that the notes played, pointed onward and outward... towards a bit of the transcendent. Anyways... it's good to see evidence that i'm not alone in loving God and loving the music of the dead:) Seeing the last show in Chicago a few weeks ago brought be back home. Peace and love to you all.