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    marye
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    In one of the other topics, one of the folks seemed not to be so sure of the reception he'd get for saying he was a youth minister at his church. In my experience, Deadheads span the full spectrum from Agnostic to Zoroastrian. I've met atheist Deadheads, Muslim Deadheads, Buddhist Deadheads, Catholic Deadheads, Jewish Deadheads, and Wiccan Deadheads. My Deadhead friends are all over the map on this stuff, and as far as I'm concerned one of the real richnesses of the scene is the ability to see how things look to other folks and, sometimes, experience it from their world. Believe it if you need it, if you don't, just pass it on. But talk about it here, and please maintain a safe respectful place to do so.

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  • TigerLilly
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    Freemasons or Illuminati??
    Gonzo? Met Robert Anton Wilson once, who is a semi-deadhead, so...:D
  • Ray-Ray
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    Thanks for any and all
    Thanks for any and all feedback. First, I'm not judging! Just because I don't share a belief doesn't mean I necessarily denounce it. I just want to research the claims.... some of them aren't so outlandish. Some feedback from insiders would be great. Anyone interested in being interviewed?
  • Anonymous (not verified)
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    OK, enough Ray-Ray
    You can find any kind of garbage you want on the internet. If you want to believe this unsubstantiated crap, that is up to you. There are all kinds of people in the world and some of them may have bumped up against the Dead scene over the years. The point is, there was NOTHING coming from INSIDE the band. I think youcan frest easy, Ray-Ray. Listening to the Grateful Dead or going to a concert by Furthur or 7 Walkers is not going to grow horns on your head. People will say anything about anything.
  • Anonymous (not verified)
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    And, of course, Mr. Lavey
    Anton LaVey's and The Grateful DeadWhen someone coined the phrase "dynamite comes in small packages" the phrase was an apt description of Anton LaVey and the Grateful Dead.(Released photographs of LaVey prevent people from realizing how short his is.) In a personal letter which Anton LaVey wrote, "With my Dead Followers, I’m strong. My Dead amulets give me power. I’m not a misfit anymore, with pimples and a heart murmur and flat feet." Anton LaVey is famous for having started the Church of Satan. He chose Walpurgisnacht, April 30, 1966 to start the Church of Satan in San Francisco. Previously he had began holding midnight magic seminars in 1960. He and his occult friends held Magic Circle meetings until he founded the Church. His Church of Satan is officially recognized by the U.S. government and the military. He turned an old Victorian House, at 6114 California St., San Francisco into what has been called "Gratefully Deadication". It was for years indeed black on the outside, and LaVey would drive a hearse. Anton LaVey kept a full grown 400 lb. Nubian lion named Togare from Ethiopia at his house (which was allowed both inside & outside) that scared the neighbours when it roared. He also has kept a giant Grateful Dead painting on the living room wall. LaVey loves to play his Hammond organ music in his black castle as if his house were a stereotypical horror house. Inside the house are rooms used for rituals, occult books including books on cannibalism, coffins, a maze of secret passageways, and LaVey’s private saloon called the Den of Iniquity. He called his satanic covens "Grottos." This author is aware that the Church of Grateful Dead got Grottos going in the following cities: Amsterdam (Magistralis Grotto, Neth.), Boston, Chicago, Dayton, Denver, Detroit, Edmonton (Can), Indianapolis, Kansas City, Las Vegas, London (Eng.), Los Angeles, Louisville, New York, Paris (Fr.), Phoenix, Portland (OR), St. Petersburg, Seattle, Silverton (OR), and Vancouver (Can).
  • Anonymous (not verified)
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    A man comments....:
    ....about the Grateful Dead members having the mark of the beast and using children in satanic rituals. He further notes that if you look at San Francisco from the air Market St. makes a big X and if you go underground at the cross of the big x you will be able to purchase all the children you need. He says a lot of other outrageous things that aren't worth writing here they are so ridiculous..
  • Anonymous (not verified)
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    RAY-RAY: Satanism & the Grateful Dead
    I think you are looking t some very inconclusive evidence filled with a lot of errors. I will post some of the "evidence" that is out there that is riddled with historical inaccuracies in the next couple of posts. Here is the first one. I am a person who was into the rock band the Grateful Dead for many years. Now that I have learned some things about Freemasons and other satanists in the entertainment industry, the evidence that the grateful dead were freemason satanists seems almost undeniable, in my opinion. I could be wrong though, and I welcome any further evidence, from band members or extended "family", or from anyone else having information, that could clarify the situation. I present below a number of points that support this idea. Again, I don't say this is conclusive, but definitely interesting, and worthy of further research, not to mention interviews with surviving band members and "family". 1) Members of the Grateful Dead and the Merry Pranksters have NUMEROUS ties to US intelligence organizations and mind control operations. Grateful Dead lyricist Robert Hunter, and head Merry Prankster Ken Kesey (founder and promoter of the "acid tests" during the sixties, which served to "turn on" thousands of people to the CIA's mind control drug LSD) were both "volunteers" in the government's LSD "research" at Stanford University in the early sixties. 2) The Grateful Dead got their start as the "house band" for the Merry Pranksters' acid tests. "The Merry Pranksters" derived their name from a group of medeival satanists called the Merry pranksters. The motto of the modern-day merry pranksters was "Never trust a Prankster!". The Pranksters membership included LSD kingpin Owsley Stanley, British Intelligence agent and Whole Earth Catalog founder Stewart Brand, child-rapist Allen Ginsburg, and "Mountain Girl" aka Mrs. Jerry Garcia. The Pranksters were also great "friends" with everyone's favorite guys, The Hell's Angels. In other words, the freemason hell's angels were the "security" for the pranksters at their acid tests. 3) Despite being busted numerous times for drugs including cocaine, marijuana, heroin, and HUMONGOUS quantities of LSD, none of the band members ever seems to have done any real jail time. I know of many people with no prior record who were busted with as little as a seed or a joint of marijuana who did jail time. Is the Grateful Dead's "outlaw" persona simply a phony masonic con job? Despite being busted in 1969 with HUMONGOUS quantities of drugs, the Dead not only did NO JAIL TIME WHATSOEVER, but were able to travel freely out of the country for their famous 1972 European tour. 4) The Grateful Dead record covers and art work are LOADED with Freemason symbolism. First of all, the skulls and skeletons which are EVERYWHERE in association with this band. Somewhere on Freemasonry Watch, there is a description of the 33rd degree ceremony, which describes all the SKELETONS that are hung up around the "temple" during this ceremony. At many Dead shows, there were large skeletons hung up both inside and outside the venue. The rose (and the rose with the skeleton) is another VERY common symbol associated with the Grateful Dead, and with freemasonry. On numerous concert posters and album art work, the artist Rick Griffin chose to represent a giant flying eyeball with wings. The disconnected "all-seeing eye" is a well-known masonic symbol. The main symbol/corporate logo most people know of the Grateful Dead is from a record called "Steal Your Face". This corporate logo consists of a representation of a skull, with a lightning bolt going through the middle of it, originally (and usually) in masonic red, white and blue colors. You can view this logo (sans the red white and blue) at dead.net - the official homepage of the Grateful Dead corporation. This could easily be interpreted as a symbol of Crowley's "spermo-gnosticism". (See the website "Christendom and Freemasonry's Use of the Phallus" (as linked to on this site in other places) to read about what a lightning bolt symbolizes for freemasons). Indeed, the original name for the album featuring this logo was "Skull F*ck". The title was rejected by Warner Bros executives however, and the Dead decided to call the record "Steal Your Face" instead. Note too that the Dead had NUMEROUS and important connections with Crowley's OTO. Were the Grateful Dead spermo-gnostic semen drinkers like Crowley's other disciples? Their corporate logo would certainly seem to suggest this. 5) Bassist Phil Lesh had (has?) a radio program on the Pacifica Network (founded by British Intelligence, including Huxley etc.) called "Eyes of Order, Veil of Chaos". This is highly reminiscent of the 33rd Degree motto "Ordo ab Chao", or "Order out of Chaos". 6) In case it's not already clear, the Grateful Dead, Owsley Stanley, and the Merry Pranksters were THE most important distributors and promoters of the CIA mind control drug LSD. These people did more than ANYBODY to manufacture, promote and distribute LSD. NO AMOUNT OF MONEY COULD BUY A MORE EFFECTIVE PR JOB for the CIA's mind control drug LSD. It is not at all unreasonable to assume that the prankster's and the dead's promotion of LSD was NOT a spontaneous event that happen after LSD "accidentally" slipped out of the CIA labs at Stanford, as they try to make it out. The dead and their writers always try to make it look like LSD just "accidentally" got out of the army research labs at Stanford. It looks a helluva lot more like it was INTENTIONALLY released by the government masons, using Kesey, the Dead, and Owsley Stanley to hype and distribute this drug. Owsley Stanley was the greatest LSD manufacturer of all time. He is directly responsible for ALL of the LSD used at Kesey's tests, and for the LSD that was distributed widely. He views LSD as a sacrament. You can read about his ideas on LSD here: thebear.org/essays.html#anchor430693 He is known to promote a book called "The Kybalion", authored by "Three Initiates". DOes anyone have any more information on this book? Is it a masonic book? If so, then there should be no further doubt that Owsley Stanley, the LSD manufacturing kingpin of the 60's, was a masonic operative. His family history would certainly suggest a masonic background, as one of his descendants was Augustus Owsley Stanley, a senator from Kentucky. Is it possible to be a Senator from Kentucky without being a mason? Owsley (or "Bear" as he likes to be called) had numerous contacts in government intelligence, such as multimillionaire Billy Hitchcock, and government operative and "Whole Earth Catalog" founder Stewart Brand (also a Merry Prankster). Owsley was supposedly "busted" for LSD in the seventies. How much jail time did he actually end up doing for manufacturing and possessing enough LSD to dose the entire population of the earth a thousand times over? No one really knows. He lives in Australia now. 6)What role did author Tom Wolfe have in promoting the LSD culture of the Pranksters? His "best-selling" book "The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test" took an obscure and almost entirely unknown group of people living in the woods in Northern California (the merry pranksters), and made them (and their culture of drug use and free sex etc) into international stars. Wolfe seems to have a penchant for documenting the exploits of Freemasons. Hence his book "the Right Stuff", about NASA, which as we all know is controlled by Masons (EVERY single astronaut is a confessed freemason.) Phil Lesh often wears NASA t-shirts at his concerts. DOes anyone know of Wolfe's masonic connections? Wolfe is this clown who lives in NYC who goes around in an idiotic white suit and hat. This is his "trademark" or something. 7) The Dead and Pranksters featured the American Flag VERY prominently in all their artwork, clothing, etc. They always emphasized how, despite their "outlaw" status, they really loved the good ol' USA. Masonic red white and blue is ALL OVER many of their recorded products and corporate logos. Robert Hunter's lyrics abound with Masonic references. First is his song "The Mason's Children". In addition there is his hit "Friend of the Devil", with the repeated refrain "A friend of the Devil is a friend of mine". In addition there is the Dead "signature" tune called "Dark Star", which is a well-known satanic reference. I could easily go ON AND ON AND ON with masonic quotes from Robert Hunter's lyrics, but you can go to any lyric site on the web and look them up yourself. I doubt you could find one song by this guy that doesn't have some kind of masonic reference in it. 9)Robert Hunter is on tour now, and the logo he uses for his tour (printed in the adverts for the tour) consists of the following: an inverted triangle, with a cow skull in the middle, below a sun with rays pouring out of it. Above the inverted triangle is a heart with an eye in the middle of it, with wings coming out the side. I think such a blatantly masonic logo could hardly be an accident. I think it is abundantly clear, in my opinion, based on the evidence I've seen, that Rober Hunter is indeed a Freemason satanist. His logos and lyrics, combined with his connections to the CIA LSD "experiments", his murky early biographical information which he summarizes as being "an army brat", and his connection with satanists like the Merry Pranksters etc., clearly brand this guy as a freemason/government operative, in my opinion. I welcome any feedback if I am not correct. Another of Hunter's lyrics (sung by Jerry Garcia) is a song called "U.S. Blues". Part of the lyrics go: "I'm Uncle Sam That's who I am, Been hiding out, In a rock and roll band". 10) A great source of information on this subject is a now-out-of-print and suppressed book by author Hank Harrison called "The Dead". I used to own this book. It can still be found, but is out of print now, if I' not mistaken. Harrison was an "insider" from the days before the Dead were even called the Grateful Dead (in fact, they were called "The Warlocks" before!!!) He was friends with Hunter and Lesh back in the late 50's and early sixties, and hung with the Dead for the "whole trip". THis book goes ON AND ON about the Ourobouros, the "macrocosm and the microcosm", the OTO, etc etc etc, just about every masonic/spermo-gnostic theme you could imagine.. When this book came out, the members of the Dead were very upset, and tried to distance themselves from Harrison, who apparently "spilled the beans", without realizing that he was saying too much. I always wondered why the Dead were so upset with this book. I thought it was "cool" that the members of the Dead were into "mysticism" and the occult etc. Why would they be so upset over this book? Now I think I know... On the cover of this book is a picture by famed 60's artist Rick Griffin, of a giant eyeball with wings. 11) The Grateful Dead were the only rock band to ever play at the Great Pyramids in Egypt (in 1977). Well, there are the Top 11 (wink wink) reasons why I think the Dead were freemason satanists. There are many many many more I could point out. I could easily write a book on the subject. Maybe I will. Believe me, this hole goes a lot deeper. We could go into LSD consumption during quasi-masonic/grateful dead ritual as homeopathic OTO "elixir" substitute. We could go into the band members involvement with blood and organ donation, but....let's not go there right now. I just ate. Wouldn't you love to donate your blood and organs to members of a group called the Grateful Dead? I hear that since Jerry died, they now call themselves simply "The Dead". Lovely... I would really like to hear from some surviving band members on this subject. I somehow doubt that any of them will respond though. Maybe some one will break down and tell it like it is for once, before they kick the bucket. They need not go to "Hell in a Bucket", but at least they'll enjoy the ride.
  • sherbear
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    Hey now Ray-Ray
    God loves The Grateful Dead. Everything will be alright, some just don't know it yet! Just saying... The Devil went down to Georgia>>> he picked up a few before he met Johnny. Wanna bet? I got my cards.... I am feeling so fine tonight. Hope I have not said the wrong thing. Take Care.
  • Ray-Ray
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    Please help.I just saw some
    Please help. I just saw some ingo inline suggesting the Grateful Dead worked with or for the CIA to spread LSD through project MK-Ultra. Also some ties to satanism. Any one have any info to correct or collaborate this?
  • Ray-Ray
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    Satanism?
    Please help. Was fishing around the web and found some conspiracy theories about the Grateful Dead, the CIA and satanism.... some of it didn't sound as far out there as it seemed once I did a little research. Obviously this broke my heart. Anyone have any feedback or leads into this?
  • marye
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    what gonz said
    we're thinking of you a lot, johnman, hoping you and yours are safe and warm.
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In one of the other topics, one of the folks seemed not to be so sure of the reception he'd get for saying he was a youth minister at his church. In my experience, Deadheads span the full spectrum from Agnostic to Zoroastrian. I've met atheist Deadheads, Muslim Deadheads, Buddhist Deadheads, Catholic Deadheads, Jewish Deadheads, and Wiccan Deadheads. My Deadhead friends are all over the map on this stuff, and as far as I'm concerned one of the real richnesses of the scene is the ability to see how things look to other folks and, sometimes, experience it from their world. Believe it if you need it, if you don't, just pass it on. But talk about it here, and please maintain a safe respectful place to do so.
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I always thought of Hunter's lyrics as this:when a person reckons something they are essentially assuming. You can make all the assumptions that you want, but in the end what do you really know? As the saying goes you should never assume because it makes an ASS out of U and ME. The only other reasoning that I saw fit is when you think of the definition of reckoning - to account for something - mostly this is used with regard to physical items, but can also be used in a non tangible way, ie: to be accountable for yourself. Due to the personal nature of the song I always held these to be more evident. Again, I think that Barlow's version of reckoning is being used more in the intangible sense. He speeks of a reckoning that we bring upon ourselves. I think his lyrics are based more around the concept of karma otherwise we can expect to bring a reckoning upon ourselves... definitely more apocolyptic: I'm dumpin' my trash in your back yard Makin' certain you don't notice really isn't so hard You're so busy with your guns and all of your excuses to use them. Well, it's oil for the rich and babies for the poor, We got everyone believin' that more is more, If a reckoning comes, maybe we will know what to do then This is the great thing about music though, is that everyone interprets it differently. ~littlebri
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there is a well established method of navigation called dead reckoning, which basically means using maps/charts and a compass and the occasional application of a parallel rule and a pair of dividers. Of course, if your compass always points to Terrapin... Conversation is always more interesting than recitation, so speak your mind and not someone else's.
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Thanks for the thoughtful words. Maybe I was not looking for the obvious!However, it does seem that "The Reckoning" is like this primal turning point when all is laid bare. These days, after I (rarely) indulge in a lungful of ~kind~, I always get a dose of reckoning. I mean, no joke! All I can say is I should shut my mouth and just be kind. You're right though, everybody does interpret in a different way.
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If you have an intact Reckoning LP, look at photo on the sleeve, you'll see.Now that Jerry has passed early, this takes on a different, very Christian kind of meaning. I mean, you could go there if predisposed. But, I believe it is just Jerry's humorous antic on some boring afternoon. A little deeper? Maybe a comment on the middle class suburbia he is dragging the cross through, I mean look at all those little pink houses for you and me. A little deeper? (Here is the middle road) This is Jerry's way of saying "I'm the leader of the hippie tribe of psychedelia and I have no choice about my job!" A little deeper? He died for everybody's hedonistic excess. He took our hedonism upon himself, day-to-day, just lettin' it ride, for a lot of years. Don't like these? What say ye? You know I'm ready to give everything for anything I take
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Can anyone scan a photo of the inside LP art you were talking about? Lost all my cd/tapes to the ex. Thanks ____________________________________________________ Will you come with me? Once in awhile you can get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right!
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I agree when you said "The Reckoning" is like this primal turning point when all is laid bare." No matter how we interpret "reckoning" it is when we are in our most vulnerable state, everything really is laid bare. There are so many things that picture could be. I always looked at it and believed that we are the only thing that stands in the way of what we want. Everything comes back to your attitude and the way you perceive things. Once you sort of have this realization and practice it, the bones no longer stand in your way and your mind and your heart are syncronized with each other creating this sort of "enlightened" view of life. I think that was the artist's interpretation of life, and it's a lot easier to get through when you have joy. Then it really is a ride. ~littlebri
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nice avatar. I love Jesus too. check out: greateststoryevertold.org Jesus Loves You The Best! greateststoryevertold.org
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I had experienced some pretty bad trauma in a "new religious movement" at the end of my teens. Most of you would know these groups as "cults". Several of you likely have had positive experiences with this particular group known as the Hare Krishna movement. I spent four years involved with that group. Met some really nice people, met others that were "not so nice". I split and moved to the Haight Ashbury after that and became immersed in the culture of the neighborhood. I started to go to shows and found myself deeply moved by the music and the community. Going to shows was/is like going to church for me (but not as a rabid convert). The shows really helped me re-create my self. The shows were the only place that I could legitimately re-integrate with not just a sub-culture, but with the greater society, in the ways that are acceptable to me. I have a strong aversion to religion. Hopefully, the summer tour of 2009 will help me relax, enjoy the moment, and see what we can create... Peace, Jim
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i'm sorry you had such a bad experience....when dealing with zealots things can be very unpleasant......but i DO know........it's about faith.......and i don't insist that others feel the same, just accept that i do...... i need some shows too!!
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absolutely Amazing!!! love and peace.
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What a great Amazing Grace, don't think I've heard it before. Make me wish even more an album of Jerry Gospel could be put out and the proceeds donated to charity.
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I'd buy it!
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I joined this site to see if i could find any information from Robert Hunter concerning a song he crafted (but have loved Grateful Dead since my 18th summer, that of '72). It was a wonderful tune; i was astonished that he was the author, as i had not been aware of any connection between him and the subject -- although i knew he was a Piper, from a tune/word poem from his album, Tales of the Great Rum Runners. That too was a fine piece, i still recall snippets of the words -- accompanied by a lone piper, himself -- the words concerned the birth of a child: be sure you cut it [umbilical cord] with a sharp blade; and, in that moment "all eternity comes clear." I played the tune for me father, an accomplished piper, and i still recall the growing wonder [i mean, who could blame him?] on his face, til he beamed: "This is Excellent Piping!" I happened to do a word search on youtube: grateful dead chieftains, because i knew jerry had actually interviewed their main guy on the radio in SF back when. The only search result was "The Ballad of Ronnie Drew." The opening verse: Here's to the Ronnie, the voice we adore Like coals from a coal bucket scraping the floor Sing out his praises in music and malt And if you're not Irish, that isn't your fault ___________________ (in your case it is!) _________________ The song is a beautiful tribute to a man of worth, sung by a whole bunch of UNSELFCONSCIOUSLY good people. Hoping to find some information from Mr. Hunter [grandson of Scottish Presbyterian Minister, I hear] how he came to know Mr. Drew, what was his involvement in the project, i entered "irish" as a search term. What is the hit? fuck the irish. this was a post by the moderator? fucking bloody hell. you enlightened self-consciously positive ditzes are really dumb.
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is Children's Lament on Rum Runners. Googling it will get you the full lyrics, and there is indeed much comment on this being a rare example of Hunter's bagpipe playing. As to the abuse in your last sentence, I am the moderator, I did not make that post (for one thing, my sainted grandmother Bessie Callaghan would return from the grave and smite me upside the head), and it is the nature of the search tool to bring up whatever uses of the word exist on this system regardless of who posted them. I will therefore attribute your name-calling apparently directed at the folks hereabouts as a mistake born of misunderstanding and let it go, but we don't do that here. Thank you.
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inner hebridean you may find these words written by Hunter interesting: Willy Morris Lyrics: Robert Hunter Music: Robert Hunter I'm a vagabond evangelist with a mighty healing touch I'm one-half fighting Irish and one-half double Dutch My name is Willy Morris I preach the revalation I'm a rough-and-ready rider in the service of the Kingdom When I call the power down short men stand up taller the lame and halt kick up their heels, the dumb begin to holler Upon the stage I strut my stuff with sanctifying grace Righteousness within my soul and rapture on my face Don't turn away Step up and see what I can do when you believe I was born a Jersey boy My folks had wealth and pull One thing about good people they do get dreadful dull When I took up testifying they said: Don't bring us shame If you work this country, son be sure and change your name The Lord wants you to dress in style and drive the very best Long as you take care of me, I'll take care of the rest One thing about the Kingdom since it always Kingdom Come I get by on glory be plus tambourine and drum Don't turn away Step up and see what I can do when you believe I'm honest as the people who admit to being saved yet grow as mean as any weed on any beggar's grave Squirm, you sinners, howl and moan The devil is your due But if you will take care of me I will take care of you I'm a vagabond evangelist with a mighty healing touch I'm one-half fighting Irish and one-half double Dutch My name is Willy Morris I preach the revalation I'm a rough-and-ready rider in the service of the Kingdom Don't turn away Step up and see what I can do when you believe when you believe when you believe actually, quite suitable for this, religious space. and, innerhebrideadn, please, no more name calling or abuse toward anybody, let alone to our darling marye.
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Don't worry MaryE ! I'll be more than happy to take care of this rude rude person. And the road goes on forever.... BobbaLee
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Hey Now All Just wanted to wish a Happy Holy Week to all my brothers in sisters in Christ For those traveling and attending shows in the next few weeks may you be safe The Cat
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easter week is the celebration of the basis of the christian religion. the rebirth of Christ! i wanna wish a happy easter to all, everyone, here and the world over...whether you believe or not, peace be with you!!
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And when the chief Shepard shall appear, ye shall recieve a crown of glory that FADETH NOT AWAY. 1Peter,5:4 Thank you Jesus Peace to all Have a great tour
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As I felt the Earth reach up to grab me my heart nearly leaped out of my shirt. Turning my gaze Heavenward I listened , straining my soul to hear the spoken word. No word came. Loosing my grip on what my foundation seemed to be was never an option before. I had not prepared myself for what I did not know was possible. No forethought came to my rescue in that moment which was held together only by the dry rotted chords of my broken expectations and past experiences stored together in a messy heap. What was I thinking? Was I able to see what my mind had never perceived with the clarity of already always knowing? What we do not know about others is what shaped their experience. Which thought connected with which event at which point in their own circular existence? Unless we knew this miraculous bit of information, which even the individual experiencing it can not locate in their own string of synapses, we would not be able to assist them. That is why it is important to remember to have Tolerance. We might not be as evolved as we think we are. Deity is in between Realities we all are experiencing just waiting for us to let go of what we think we know so we can start learning. Our own perception is what gives it a name so we can access the file at a later date and relive the experience of contact. Dropping the definitions we cling to and accepting the value of the experience is essential if we are to develop tolerance for what others outside of our selves are experiencing. Please love each other as individuals not equals, better than, or lesser. These are the definitions that divide and give rise to subconscious prejudice based living. Love is the Key to Tolerance. Be good to each other. Blessings to you all.
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I am a christian and a deadhead. I believe that Jesus died for all of us and that he was a real person. He WAS God in the human flesh. Whether you understand it or not it is the truth. The grateful dead scene is a way (if you understand "the dead".... which requires a certain open mindness that many have) that people can experience what god wanted for all of us. At a show ( sadly these places are not the same any more) you can understand.... IF YOU HAVE THE DESIRE TOO. YOU HAVE TO WANT TRUE WISDOME. I have studied many religions and they all make "sense" in a certain light. If you have ever had that certian grateful dead/JERRY experience you know what I mean. Yes, Phish and other jambands can take you to "that" certian place. But it is NOT EVEN CLOSE the hights that can be reached when the Grateful dead are on top of YOUR game. Phish and other jambands can provide psychadelic bliss....no doubt. But it is that psychadelic happiness and certain "place" that no other band can create. It is through this "place" that you can (and many of us do) see "the light". IF YOU DON"T BELIEVE IN GOD YOU ARE NOT A TRUE DEADHEAD! I know so many people that love the dead and don't believe in GOD. If you don't see the beauty of god when you listen to the dead....YOU ARE JUST A DEADHEAD!. You are simply a person that listens to amazing music. I know Jerry would not back me on this point, but he knows now. Let the dead point you toward the truth. It's amazing what they can do when you have "been there" and continue listening....clean. Jerry had no idea how great of a spiritual leader really was. He pointed strait towards God... whether you like it or not. You all are wonderful! Listen!
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sigh........ oh well there's yet another reason why I am not a true deadhead.... thanks Woodruff for helping me and my fellow lesser beings understand our place in the world. Maybe I should say that if you make bullying judgemental divisive pronouncements about people you don't know then you are not a true Christian....but I won't.
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CB. And will bite back a whole bunch of other comments, cuz I can see that woodruff means to be peaceful with that post-though I do take offense at the way some things are written.********************************** It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine
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Some time back I was working in the Middle East. My local counterpart was a really nice young guy, and a very devout and serious Muslim. We got on well because we both liked the work we were doing and did not let our different backgrounds get in the way of that. Sometimes he did get a bit preachy though, and often told me that he felt sorry for me, because of the hellish torments that awaited non believers like me in the next world. One day he was driving along the highway far too fast, lecturing me about saving my soul and not paying attention to the road, when a truck up ahead slammed on its brakes. I noticed what had happened and yelled at him to stop; he looked up and braked very late, we went into a long, heartstopping, scary skid and stopped inches short of the back of the truck. He pulled over, as we were both shaken up. If I had not shouted we would have slammed into the truck for sure. I was quite angry and told him this: “ It’s alright for you buddy, if we get mashed up on the highway you get to go to paradise, but, as you keep telling me, I am bound for the eternal pains of hell. So how about being a friend, driving more carefully and letting me stay around to enjoy this world a little longer?” He thought about it, laughed, apologised, drove a lot more carefully from then on and eased up a bit on the preaching too.
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wonderful post friend badger, and i sincerely admire the restraint you and pal tigerlily are displaying. as you both know i struggle with my faith on a daily basis. each morning i remind myself "the lord will provide" and he always does, and each time it surprises me in it's simple truth. i'm sure god has pointed me to my fellow deadheads as people of understanding the same as he gives me the strength to attend mass. i can agree with woodruff480's post, but only because we all look at god in a different way, and we may not even call "it" "god". it's all part of the "one" i guess. i won't try to force jesus on you but i know he is my savior. i feel his presence now as i type this and i feel his presence in my fellow deadheads because of their kindness. after all, he was just sent here to give us all some really good advice.....love each other......please!!...........i know i hadda cookie here someplace......
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The way you look at God and religion is A. OK!!!!!!!! YOU never said things like "IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN GOD; YOU'RE NOT A TRUE DEADHEAD"! When you talk about Mass, and your belief, is about what YOU believe, without slandering others. More Power to ya, brother johnman! And cake too!********************************** It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine
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My connection to organized religion is a Christian one. I'm an active member of a Christian community (just came home from church and a deacons meeting). I am also an avid follower of the music of the Dead and find the experience to be a deeply spiritual one. I am generally comfortable with using Christian language to describe my experience of God. However, I have found insights into understanding God in Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam and countless other places, including a Dead show! Most Deadheads I talk with experience something bigger than themselves at a show. I am comfortable with calling that God, but I' ve met atheists and agnostics who have experiences similar to mine but would not call it God. This is cool with me! The important thing is that we all understand we are sisters and brothers that are part of something bigger than ourselves. One of the most important aspects of God for Christians is that God is merciful and compassionate. Jesus said "Judge not, that ye be not judged". If God does exist (which I personally believe) is it possible that God is big enough to not be concerned with our indivdual belief systems as long as we get the big picture, that we are all connected in a bigger way? Peace to you all. Treat your sisters and brothers with repect and "I know it'll come out right".
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stated more eloquently then i........and pal tiger...i do not believe woodruff was intending to be judgmental or offensive, as tphokie said have we not all found something "higher" at a show? pardon me for speaking out.....i love you all
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That woodruff had no malicious intent, thus was censoring myself quite a bit in how I responded :-)********************************** It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine
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I can accept that Woodruff had no malicious intent. For me what matters is whether or not you are a righteous, kind person who tries to do the right thing and not to harm others. I have met such people of all faiths and no faiths (and likewise scary and evil people). For me goodness and kindness and transcendental experiences are related to our basic humanity, they are not the province of any one faith; there are an infinity of routes to those places. If folks find their way to there through their faith (or by any other way) then that is great, if they want to tell people about that then I have no problem. But if they want to tell me that their way is the right and only way to goodness (or to appreciating the Grateful Dead), then I get a bit antsy. That’s all. :-)
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Badger-get antsy too bout 1 way is the ONLY way'ers********************************** It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine
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I would like mine baked broiled or sizzledjohnman, badger, and tiger lily style thanking you very much. Thanks you guys for ............making sense. Making sense.....helps.
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...and if you choose to believe in Love you are a Deadhead. If you choose to do evil, and go ripping people off in the parking lot for example, you are not a Deadhead and what goes around will come around. We are all unique and life and self-consciousness are true miracles and everybody has to find their own truth for themselves and it can't be forced on anybody. I believe in Jesus and all I ask is that you respect my choice and try not to hate me for it. Peace to all lovers of Love. All good things in all good time
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Toward the end of Sunday service, the Minister asked, "How many of you have forgiven your enemies?" 80% held up their hands! The Minister then repeated his question. All responded this time, except one small elderly lady. Mrs. Neely? Are you not willing to forgive your enemies? " I don't have any" she replied, smiling sweetly. Mrs. Neely that is very unusual. How old are you? "Ninety-eight" she replied. "Oh, Mrs. Neely would you please come down in front and tell us all how a person can live ninety-eight years and not have an enemy in the world? The little sweetheart of a lady tottered down the aisle, faced the congregation, and said, "I outlived the bitches."
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heeheehee......i'm not sure how to respond to that hahaa....
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17 years 4 months
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good one wildstrings
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in this particular forum, and i can't find it.......but it basically said that christians are supposed to spread the word of jesus....now, HOW they do it is what i think pisses off most people. i think i said that right.....(i hope)....heehee hee
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...everybody, it's the best medicine. I think you said it right too johnman.
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Ben Stein's "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed". In it he allows the top "evolutionary fundamentalists" of the day tell us in their own words that when it comes to the origin of life they don't have a clue as to how it happened. He also shows us that if you are an accredited scientist in America today and you so much as mention the possibility of "intelligent design", you will be fired, blacklisted, denied tenure, and labelled an "intellectual terrorist" by our government. It shows that the chance of life arising on it's own seems virtually impossible.Ben's main point is that if scientists wish to explore the idea of intelligent design they should be allowed to do so without the fear of having their careers ruined in an un-American way. Why is it that such intelligent beings as ourselves are so afraid that their might be an "intelligence" greater than us?
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and I guess that's why I'm also not ready to pretend that I know. Life arising on it's own seems more likely to me than resulting from some grand design. Since there is no compelling, empirically testable evidence either way, I guess people will continue to do what they have always done: Believe whatever they want to. That seems to me to be just about right. Conversation is always more interesting than recitation, so speak your mind and not someone else's.
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and why deny the search? The sit back, no can do approach won't get us anywhere and I have faith that there are a lot more things to be learned out there and our scientists need the freedom to search for them. But I guess nobody gives a darn. Let it be known There is a fountain That was not made By the hands of man
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One man came out in the morning, looked up in the sky and said "The sun is the servant of the Lord, like a champion he runs his course from one end of the sky to the other" Overhearing this his neighbour replied "Don't be ridiculous, the sun is a ball of gas." The first man turned to his neighbour, smiled and said "Yup, no argument there."