Over in another topic, scubabrew raised the question of why we're not talking about post-Jerry Dead. Many things could be said on the subject; some would certainly have it that "post-Jerry Grateful Dead" is a contradiction in terms, and in any case the band retired the name after Jerry passed. But as scuba implies, that doesn't really address the fact that there were some darn fine shows by The Dead, The Other Ones, etc. So here's the place to talk about 'em!
i quite like the first incaration of the other Ones Bob - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Spanish Jam
I put this in the Tapers section just as marye was starting this topic, so I thought I would move it over here. enjoying the ride - very sorry you have missed out on all the great music of the past 12 years. It may not be the Grateful Dead, but it as close as we can get. And IMHO - Ratdog, Phil and Friends, the Dead, the Other Ones have all been tighter than most of the post Brent stuff of the Grateful Dead and much of the 80's. Jerry had health problems and was an addict and the band was not inspired at times and not happy at times. Most of these post -Jerry bands have more joy in their spirit than the last days of the Dead. I love Jerry and the sound of his guitar and songs but you can not fly high when you are bogged down by narcotics and just feeling sick and dying. With all this said, there was nothing like a Grateful Dead concert; even though the post Jerry shows are lots of fun and smooth sailing, it isn't the same MAGIC and excitement as the Grateful Dead when they were on. The audience for me have also been more pleasant at the post Grateful Dead shows than in the later years. They are there because they love the music, not to make a scene. Let the discussion begin. Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself, (I am large, I contain multitudes.) Walt Whitman-Song of Myself
i can't comment on the audience as in the last 20 years i have only seen the 90 GOGD tour which i enjoyed, great fun following the band around and the 2003 Ratdog Europe tour.I love Ratdog and some of the P&F shows, normally without Warren. Great player but he plays too loud for my tastes in this type of music. Bob W - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Spanish Jam
Hey Bob,I am a big Warren and Gov't Mule fan. I do feel however that his guitar overshadowed that of Jimmy Herring when they both played with the Dead in 2004. Jimmy is a great musician and he was just way too low in the mix, both live and on the soundboards. I really wanted to hear him without straining. Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself, (I am large, I contain multitudes.) Walt Whitman-Song of Myself
Hal,You made the same point I was thinking. Every year we go to the Bridge School Benefit that Neil Young puts on. If you havent heard of it it is mandatory all acoustic and usually has a quite diverse selection of bands. A bunch of years ago "The Dead" played and I hadnt seen them actually seem to be having that much fun being on stage and playing for people in a long time. Smiles all around the whole set. I have never been that good at dissecting my experiences at shows but my brain sure knows when it is at a good one and the boys sure seem to be having fun again. They still suprise me. Hearing them play Madman Across the Water during the last Dead tour showed me that they can still be counted on for the unexpected. relax, don't worry, have a homebrew. "There are 2 kinds of people in the world. Those whose lives have a soundtrack and those lives do not. I have always found that interesting people come supplied with music."
Scubabrew,I found the Madman Across the Water very moving, inspired and inspiring. Warren has a strong voice. Was a little shocked when I first heard it; Dead doing Elton John tunes? Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself, (I am large, I contain multitudes.) Walt Whitman-Song of Myself
was Warren singing "One," from the last Dead show at Shoreline. At that show, I thought the band was great and all was aligned for a great new start, and Warren singing "One" just kind of nailed the whole thing thematically. Much as the Automatic Baby one (half U2, half R.E.M., with Michael Stipe on vocals) nailed the mood of the Clinton inaugural, but I digress. "One" is quite the song, though in eternal peril of slipping into cliche from overuse I suppose. None of it was to be, alas. But in the moment, it was awesome. It was a free download on The Dead site, but that site is long, long gone, I think.
While post Jerry Dead is definetly not the same, The musicians are top notch, and live music is definetly better, bumper stickers should be issued!!
There is no such thing, I assure you. He channels "US", now. When will "Then" be "Now"? Soon...
hal you nailed it when you said the fans are there for the tunes and not just to make the scene. the show must go on for us, it just has different characters now. but yes, we ARE there for the music after all. everything else was always just a bonus. nothing left to do but smile, smile, smile
Hi Guys I am brand new here decided to join to comment on this thread. I saw it in today's GD Bulletin #3. I'm running late for work so I'll be quick and then come back again! I enjoyed Warren in Phil's band. I agree he does play loud and is really bluesy compared to the "Jerry" type of playing but he was the foil to that. I don't think he completely overshadowed Jimmy Herring. When Herring took his turns he was nice and tasty. Warren to me was kinda the Pigpen element as he did a pretty sweet Lovelight near the close of a Beacon Theater show a good few years back that I enjoyed. I haven't heard anything from this new Phil line-up but I have tickets for one of the Nokia Theater Times Square NYC shows late this month -- I think 11/1 Thursday night. That is scheduled to be game 7 of the World Series if necessary and if the Yankees are in it and it comes to that I will be looking to trade my 2 tix for another night. Is there a specific thread here for that kind of thing? Elsewise, I saw in today's GD Bulletin #3 that some full Phil shows with the new line-up are available to listen to online so I will do that today at work. -enjoyin' the ride
I've always felt that the sum was greater than the parts. Meaning that while I've thoroughly enjoyed PLF, RatDog, Planet Drum, etc. I think that the bands that bring together all the surviving (not "former") members of the Grateful Dead have something "etherially electric" that the splinter bands lack. Each of the surviving members basically "calls the shots" in his own band, but it is more a "meeting of the minds" when The Other Ones or The Dead play together. These are guys who have conversations-in-jamming, and since they were all part of the original development of the material over the course of 30+ years, they each have standing to influence the direction the jam goes. I just don't think this happens to the same degree in RatDog, where Bobby calls the tune; or in PLF, where Phil holds sway. Having said that, I think that when The Boys DO all get back together, the resulting jams are BETTER because they each have had the opportunity to work on the tunes in their own way. Seeing them together as "The Dead" is a treat; and all the moreso because it only happens every once in a while. And along those lines.... Come on Boys, it's been since 2004 already. Isn't it about time for Uncle John's Band to hit the road together again soon??? "Shall we go...."
I JUST READ NEWS OF LESH, WEIR AND HART ON TOUR WITHOUT EACH OTHER, PLAYING GIGS ALONE WITH SEPARATE BANDS. THIS IS NOT WHAT ANY OF US DEAD FANS WANT. ITS BAD ENOUGH THAT JERRY IS GONE, BUT FOR THE GREATEST MUSIC, DEAD BAND MEMBERS MUST ALL PLAY TOGETHER. WEIR AND LESH ARE IN NY ON 10-31, IN DIFFERENT LOCATIONS. SO GUYS FOREGIVE EACH OTHER. GET YOU GUYS ALL TOGETHER, MAKE MUSIC, HAVE FUN AND MAKE MONEY. STOP FEUDIN' NOW. KEEP THE MUSIC ALIVE AND THE DEAD TOGETHER
Well, this topic certainly peaked my curiosity because like many, I was hesitant to see The Dead, in a post-Jerry world. Would it be as good? Would it ruin my memories of all the GD shows that came before it? Who would sing/play Jerry's "parts"??? In the end, I was very pleasantly surprised at how fantastic The Dead Summer Tour was in 2004! It had that magical feeling - at least to me. It felt joyful, not sad. And to be honest, I thought that Warren Haynes was more or less channeling Jerry in both guitar and song. Warren was awesome and brought a new vibe, but one that fit in with the band and honored the spirit of Jerry. Jimmy on the other hand, I could do without. I thought his guitar playing was too tweaky, like he should be in a metal band, not with the Dead. I didn't care for his playing at all and thought his vibe wasn't "Dead" like. For whatever its worth. Anyway, like most, I'm still waiting for the next Dead tour. I'm tired of RatDog, it doesn't interest me and I wont pay to see Bobby play with a bunch of folks I just dont dig. I've not seen the other side bands but I also have no interest in seeing them. For me, it's either The Dead, or my tapes. 'Nough said! "...it's a band beyond description..."
I was really suprised when the The Dead didn't even get together to celebrate their 40th Anniversary in 2005. Not even one song together. I thought for sure it was a cause for a special show and I was ready to buy my ticket. But it didn't happen. I wonder why? I mean the merchandise was already out there but no shows. Maybe there are internal issues, between the remaining members, wouldn't you suspect. Why break up a good thing like this.Sure Rat Dog and Phil & Friends are awesome but these guys obviously couldn't keep the band togehter after Jerrry died. Jerry, even though he was ill, he must have been the glue that kept the band together and jammin. The Dead stood for something more than music and they let it go after Jerry died. And don't tell me that Bob and Phil are too old to tour like they used to. These guys still live on the road and their not retired. So what's up? Any answers? I still love the Grateful Dead music and always will! I miss them though :(
Good question. Are they feuding or just enjoying being there own boss?
Having started my interests in the Dead around '84 and seeing them many times from that point in most of their incarnations, band, solo, collaborations and such, every project had a different energy. The Grateful Dead in the '80s were on most of the times I saw them. Especially '87-'90. Though every era had great music (obvious favorite years aside-'68-'70, '72-'77 ect), I thought they were tight and concise consistantly in the late '80s. Post Brent '90s had it's good moments but never regained that energy they had with Brent. Further '96-'98 was a mixed bag for me personally. Though the solo contributions and collaborations of the former members were for the most part cool, I thought having The Black Crowes were a bad choice for a headliner and Los Lobos I liked but did'nt really fill the void. By the time Phil got back into the game with The Other Ones I felt the music was back albeit different. In some ways I liked the experimental side but at others it felt like Dead light. '99-'01 saw the emergance of some fantastic music and some not-so-fantastic music. Phil- started what would evolve into the best post GD music with Phil & Friends, particularly the line-up with Haynes, Herring, Molo, Barraco. This band really had the zone. Great song writing, jamming and tight. Ratdog- also did well though without the fireworks of top notch guitar playing. The Other Ones '99- The reformation without Phil I missed and sounded like I did'nt miss much. Terrapin Family Reunion- I had mixed feelings of this event. Overall I liked the music but felt my first visit to Alpine Valley since '89 saw this venue as a somewhat miserable experience for me personally so I skipped the second night. Phil & Friends in the afternoon were fantastic, Warren solo is always great, Mickey sounded nice and The new line-up for The Other Ones were better than ever but the extreme heat, oversold crowd, the concession stands running out of food and the overall vibe of the venue staff and security was too much. Not too mention the hotel we had reserved gave our room away making us drive way out of the way to find the last room available in the middle of the night at the Milwaukee airport hotel. At that point we decided too eat our second night tickets and skip the second show. I'll never go to another Alpine Valley show. The Other Ones/'The Dead 02'-'04- I saw one show at The Palace in Auburn Hills in '02 and loved it. We had great seats and the line-up adding Susan Tedeski was fun. I did'nt see them in '03 but once again heard I did'nt miss much. The addition of Warren in '04 saw some of the best music the core members all played together IMHO. At least the show I attended and most of the recordings I've heard saw what was a potential beast. Too bad it only lasted one tour. Had this line-up continued they may have even outdone some of the glory days way back when. In summary...... The Other Ones/The Dead - '98, '02 and '04 were great. '00 and '03 not so great. Phil & Friends - There and Back line-up the best thing since Brent. Ratdog - Only saw them a handful of times and liked some but feel Bobs slowing down these days. Mickey/Bill - have'nt heard as much of them outside of the Dead accept Mystery Box's performance at the Family Reunion and thought it was a good performance. Bruce/Vince - Saw Bruce a couple times and he was solid. Vince I saw once shortly before his suicide and well....hmmmm, felt like a third rate cover band too me. He should have went with the Tubes reunion. (Sorry Vince fans but I simply thought he never really fit in until Jerry's final decline at the very end)
Hard to say where they'll go from here. As much as a reunion would be great I can't help but to wonder if they could put together a band that will live up to peoples expectations. Jimmy Herrings out, Warrens out, Steve Kimock could still be in, Phish band members nah. They would have to reinvent themselves to make it viable. Maybe bring in new unheard sidemen. Personally I'd love to see a Haynes, Herring and Barraco addition but doubt it would happen. They need some top notch prog/fusion style players to make it happen. Steve Morse anybody?
I believe that the remaining members of The Dead bailed out of touring as The Dead because they wanted to dissolve the following. In order to do this they split up and went their own ways. I beleive they started seeing the following... AKA the HEADS..... as a liability. Im not downing on The Dead nor the HEADS but in my opinion the last generation of HEADS were getting unruly, remember when they stormed the fence at Deer Creek, In. and the policing at venues became very tight and it started making people feel very uncomfortable. Regardless of the past, a good show every now and then by The Dead shouldn't be unrealistic to expect. If Banaroo can go on for days, I think The Dead can still play together without worrying about unruly crowds. Maybe the Lawyers have made them forget about the Good Ole Days when none of that mattered and you just let it go and let the music take over.
Certainly things got ugly for the Dead as the fans (or perhaps non-fans) there only for the parking lot festivities but those problems had virtually disappeared on the Further Festivals and various incarnations of the reformed surviving core members. In regards to where things stand with them now I think theres more going on than meets the eye between the core members. Only time will tell whats up with these guys and if the organization known as GDP gets back on track.
I am in my sixties now and I really hope that I get to see the Dead at least one more time. I recently saw Ratdog opening for the Allman Brothers in Camden, and it was "Jerry-Like" when Derek Trucks came out and played with Ratdog. Weir was a little offspeed when he came out and did Franklin's Tower with the Allmans, but it still gave you goose bumps. I'd travel across several states if I had to, to see a Dead show with Haynes, Herring and Barraco as part of the mix. Has anyone heard any word about the possibility of one more tour as "The Dead"?
This was my first post show and it was a great one. PL&F were the opener for Bob Dylan in Worcester MA. It was pouring outside. Soaked in 10 seconds pouring! We were a half-step late driving thru the rain unfortunately but it was a treat...Trucks and Haynes on guitar and they were lighting it up. Sure it had a different feel but they managed to get out there...way out there. I am still looking for that show...any help would be appreciated. Since it was a double bill, there was only one set...the good news is Bob Dylan came out after and offered out a mesmerizer himself. I've been told that on this tour, Phil would sometimes come back for an encore of Alabama Getaway and maybe another tune or two but we must have been out of time on that particular evening. Still, an unforgettable night and thanks again for everything under the sun!*!~Marshun~
Yes! Here it is...one long sweet set and oh so very, very hot! Worcester, MA 11-14-99 Centrum Coliseum Phil Lesh, John Molo Warren Haynes (guitar), Derek Trucks (guitar) & Rob Barraco (keys) Phil's Set (1:40) Jam> Darkstar (1st verse)> Sugaree> Jam> Cosmic Charlie> Jam> Darkstar (2nd verse)> Jam> St. Stephen> The Eleven (instrumental)> Not Fade Away BIG thanks to Larry & Josh "The Kid" Feldman for calling during the St. Stephen & after.
I'm New Here So I Don't Know If This Is The Right Place But I Figured Since It Was Post Jerry Dead It Would Be Does Anyone Know Where I Can Get Any Of The 2004 Shows With Warren Haynes? I Would Greatly Appreciate It
You used to be able to order them from the same folks that sell Ratdog CDs or downloads but they stopped selling them. These and the 2003 shows should be made available to us. How about it Rhino? If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is, infinite. Wiliam Blake
I'd love to get the show in Atlanta. Had an excellent time. Can't remember the exact date. The weather was perfect and the music was groovy! I second Hal R, come on Rhino PEACE
So There Not Floating Around On The Net Anywhere?
...the real issue in the post-Jerry era has to do with the use of a guitarist to replace jerry, period...it seems as if Phil runs from the idea that a "jerry-sounding" guy, by himself, is suitable for his creative desires. Phil and Friends has, in the past, included great Garcia sounding, chiming and chirping guitarists, we all know them. But the mix was muddled by his concurrent inclusion of other players who just didn't get it, though they loved the music, knew the music, and could play the shit out of the guitar...warren, scoffield, jimmy herring, larry campbell,come to mind...great players, but they didn't sound right. Derek Trucks, great player, didn't sound right. The best idea would be to have all living members gather again, and HAVE THE GUY FROM DSO play with them. He captures the spirit of Jerry wonderfully, he is not trying to re-invent the wheel, but simply does his job miraculously. I think the existing band members are almost afraid, creeped out, or voodoo-ed or something, and stay away from this as a possibility. This guy has devoted his musical life to re-creating Garcia. Is there anything wrong or 'uncreative' about studying the masters? If a guy sounded just like Coltrane, would you shun him in a band that featured the music and spirit of Coltrane? The existing members of the Dead are never, ever going to create a new paradigm, a new music, a new form of improvising, a new level of group dynamic spontaneity, inasmuch as Phil wishes this were true. The best thing to do would be to admit that Garcia's sound, Garcia's imrovisational spirit, his tone, his gentle but unwavering leadership musically, is what bound the entire bunch of them together, until its unraveling, a result of many things, including Garcia's failing battles. They should just wave the white flag, and give in to the best and only solution...gather as a band with the DSO guitarist at the shakey helm! peace
Is John Kadlecik and I agree his voice is sweet as can be :) A gathing like that would be grate!
I still go to all the above shows...some of the venues ratdog has played are so small..they are classic performances and the magic is there..i miss Karin on giutar and hope he is healing...but i have always enjoyed Kimock!!! ,the thing about ratdog is the chemestry as they have been playing together so long..phil and friends change members to often...and are good shows but not as good as ratdogs....i would like to see all members of the dead out with the guitarist from darkstar orchestra,, i also would like to see the dead or ratdog team up with paul kanter jefferson airplane starship with slick agular on guitar as a opener!! just saw them and they are great....the current lineup of phil and friends i just saw and they were better than when they had joan with them ,,, no more joan plez ...In my opinion the guitarist from darkstar orchestra deserves a tour with phil as he changes his lineup so often why not give him a shot....he is really great ..............NO ONE CAN REPLACE JERRY..but the music has a life of its own!!!
GET HIM ON BOARD ...HE IS AWESOME...IF THIS WAS A ELECTION I WOULD VOTE FOR JOHN HE IS REALLY REALLY IN THE SPIRIT OF GARCIA
"..one good thing, one good thing, when it hits you feel no pain..." Forget about a Phil tour for John...that would be a waste of time. John needs to play with Bob and Phil. Bob already embraces DSO, and has played often with John. Phil is the hardhead here. Get the entire band together, and add John, and don't muddle things up with a talented, but chemistry-less third guitarist. Of utmost importance would also be the choice of keyboardist. If Rob Baracco would just mellow out a bit, slow those hands down, he understands the music
"..one good thing, one good thing, when it hits you feel no pain..." PEFECT POST GARCIA LINE UP: Phil, Bob, Mickey, Bill, John of DSO, and Grace Potter plays organ, better than pig ever did, and she can sing all background harmonies, donna parts, IN KEY, and she can sing lead on many cool songs...Grace is the real thing, and the jam band scene can use a low key fine woman who is a musical leader as well....
Yeah I Would Love to see Grace with the Dead. I drove up 5 maybe 6 hours to San Fransisco to see Gov't Mule. She was opening and I had never heard of her then she came out and just started singing. I fell in love. She should be topping the charts. She is better live than on record. I just wanted to hear what Warren sounded like withe the Dead since I think he's the greatest guitarist of my time and I love his voice and I can't seem to find anything from Wave That Flag.
I would like to add my support for a Dead reunion with Mr. Kadlecik on lead. Those tones...fit so well with the music. I never cared for anyone else. I like Hayes, but not as much with The Dead (altho that cover of Shine On You Crazy Diamond was pretty nice). The surviving members, plus Mr. DSO would bring back some magic. I'm thru grieving, can actually picture myself seeing the guys post Jerry now. I also never really cared for Joan Osbourne singing with the band. Hornsby would be a nice welcome back. I'd travel for The Dead more than once, maybe not for Phil & Friends/Ratdog. Heres an idea: put on a festival show with Bob Dylan and Willie Nelson! The Dead played at Willie's Family Picnic in Austin. Just add Dylan, get the full Dead, that memory would be up there with the old days!
Fri 4/24/09 Madison Square Garden, New York City, NYSat 4/25/29 Madison Square Garden, New York City, NY Sun 4/26/29 Madison Square Garden, New York City, NY Tue 4/28/09 Times Union Center, Albany, NY Wed 4/29/09 TD Bank North Arena, Boston, MA Fri 5/01/09 Wachovia Spectrum, Philadelphia, PA Sat 5/02/09 Wachovia Spectrum, Philadelphia, PA Sun 5/03/09 Verizon Center, Washington, D.C. Tue 5/05/09 Mellon Arena, Pittsburgh, PA Wed 5/06/09 Nationwide Arena, Columbus, OH Fri 5/08/09 Allstate Arena, Chicago, IL Sat 5/09/09 Allstate Arena, Chicago, IL Mon 5/11/09 Scott Trade Center, St. Louis, MO Tue 5/12/09 Sprint Center, Kansas City, MO Wed 5/13/09 American Airlines Center, Dallas, TX Fri 5/15/09 UNO Lakefront Arena, New Orleans, LA Sat 5/16/09 Verizon Wireless Music Center, Pelham, AL Sun 5/17/09 Sommet Center, Nashville, TN Tue 5/19/09 Hampton Coliseum, Hampton, VA Wed 5/20/09 Hampton Coliseum, Hampton, VA Fri 5/22/09 Time Warner Cable Music Pavilion, Raleigh, NC Sat 5/23/09 Verizon Wireless Ampitheatre, Charlotte, NC Sun 5/24/09 Lakewood Amphitheatre, Atlanta, GA- - - - - - - - - - - - - - Spanish Jam
Hope it's true!!Closing the spectrum in Philly ...gonna tear that old building down! Thats where I saw my 1st show 1977 and my last show 1995 and tons of shows in between!! Can't wait got my new tour shoes HeeHee!!
the dearth of west coast dates
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