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  • daverock
    Joined:
    Spiral Light was good

    That really moved things up a gear for me with The Dead. Not just the magazine, with it's great reviews, articles and news items, but also because through them I was able to access tapes. In fact, if I am a Deadhead, I would date it from about 1987, when this happened. Up to that point I had all the official albums and the odd bootleg, but from then on I was getting tapes delivered regularly. And once you discover one source, others seem to open up too. Great stuff!

  • Oroborous
    Joined:
    My bad

    I didn’t look up, but I think I mixed up the Pranksters trip.
    Thanks for correcting and straightening out the ole synapses lol
    Now that you mention about/for the millennium etc…and not in 90…

    And also, now that mention, Brent’s passing probably would have added to the energy factor. We were at the first shows in Richfield with Vince after Brent’s much too early demise, and there most definitely was a lot of extra energy.
    A lot of what now and uncertainty and ?
    Will it suck? Will it be good? Things had been steadily improving the last couple years before so there was a lot of anxiety or uncertainty.
    But man, once they started playing all that energy morphed into that big ole ball of “1” that everyone in the building became, and as the night progressed it was like you could feel 18K people all exhale in relief all at the same time, as we all realized that, “yeah, this is going to be different, but it’s gonna be alright” we will survive, we will get by!
    So I’m sure that must have been a variable too.

    Back to the bad actors thought. Again, I’m struggling to not be so ?
    I feel I’ve painted an overemphasis or oversaturated picture of people?
    Let’s think of it this way, it’s like BITD when grownups used to say “one bad apple spoils the barrel” meaning, most certainly most of the folks at shows were like the good apples, but now there were more and more bad ones getting into the barrel. And though there weren’t so many relatively, the bad ones were now a whole new kind of bad that spread the rot more prominently. ?
    Hopefully that makes better sense?

    Edit: Or lol
    What BC just said ; )

    And perhaps the biggest factor was just sheer size like BC said.
    No matter what kind of head, there just were now too many for the scene to function healthy…

  • bluecrow
    Joined:
    Scene in the NW

    I saw almost all my 90s shows in the Pacific NW. Eugene 90, 93 and 94, Seattle 94 and 95, Portland 95. I think the scene was overall a lot healthier but the 94 Eugene shows still attracted enough fools clowns and jerks to kill the Dead's return there the next year which is why they ended up at a lame Portland race track in '95. By the third show in Eugene 94 (a huge show) it was clear that they wouldn't be allowed to return. The camp zone in the parking lot was a freaking trash dump (I was lucky enough to be staying on a "peacock farm" outside of town). Stories of messed up and disrespectful behavior throughout the town - and the locals being rightfully angered by that - were already circulating. By chance I was visiting family in the Midwest early July 95 and saw the last 2 shows in Soldier Field (brother had extra tickets he bought for friend who then changed his mind.) Wasn't there for the scene so didn't spend much time in the lot but do remember a young woman describing all the weird stuff that had gone down earlier on that summer tour and it was clear she was spooked by the vibe. The 12/89 shows at LA Forum (my only SoCal shows) were the only time I was offered "chiva" - what's that I had to ask and it was H - by a non-scene, just dealing, guy out in the lot. Politely turned down that offer.

  • proudfoot
    Joined:
    Spiral Light

    I saw that written about in Golden Road fanzine

    Paul Bodenham was publisher

    The Ticketless Hordes was my name for the cling-ons

    My final 3 attended GD shows were fine in my opinion 5/24, 25, 26/95. No problems, perfectly acceptable shows. Then came the Tour From Hell after Shoreline. Oy.

  • daverock
    Joined:
    1990

    Oro-yes, what you say is consistent with how I saw things at the time - and how I see things now. I didn't know anyone into the band at that time, but excitement was generated by the "Spiral Light" fanzine that came out every two months or so. So I was aware of the recent return of Dark Star, and also of the increased popularity of the band in the U.S, following Touch of Grey. This was tempered by Brent's sad demise during summer 1990 - so there was also a sense of not quite knowing how this would affect the band. I can remember thinking that Tom Constanten would probably rejoin - which shows how much I knew !

    I wasn't aware of the Merry Pranksters coming to Britain in 1990 - although they did come in the year 2000 for the millenium celebrations. Both Ken Kesey and Ken Babbs were part of this, and they put on a show at The Barbican in London - showing footage of the bus trip from 1964.... interspersed with comedy sketches!

    Back to the Dead - I was amazed at how many Americans had travelled over for those shows. They seemed to make up most of the crowd. I saw Santana at Wembley in 1991, and I wondered if a similar scene would follow them over. It did not. No other American band I saw - I saw live shows from 1972-2019 - had anything like the same following The Dead did, that travelled over here to see them.

  • Oroborous
    Joined:
    Set and setting

    Yeah, that’s what I’m trying to articulate.
    That the environment that we and the band were now forced to live in was perhaps the biggest factor in the diminishing returns etc.
    I don’t think they liked it any more than we did, but what were they going to do, other take a break like they should have…
    And of course that environment was created to attempt to deal with the over extended masses. And yeah, overall the people weren’t generally as bad as I may portray, but bad actors and behavior were increasingly evident, and often more heinous, and especially in specific places or types of places etc.

    Daverock, Im guessing in your unusual situation:
    1- yes, probably not your usual run of the mill DHs like some of us here.
    Fanatics with the ways and means perhaps. Ya know, the more invested in something, the more folks will get worked up. For some perhaps combined into a lifetime European vacation.
    I know DL saw some of those 90 shows, as I think he was studying there? I forget…
    2- extra hype and excitement as they hadn’t been to Europe recently
    3- I believe Kesey and co were there and even brought Futhur 2
    4- the return of DS, Attics etc inserted a huge hit of adrenaline to the scene in general, so guessing over there also.
    5- the popularity explosion via TOG/ITD must have had an effect over there too
    6- concerts and crowds in general had changed by then
    7- perspective: you weren’t that experienced in live GD madness etc (that’s not a criticism! I mean how would you be…) and the saying “there is nothing like a GD concert” worked on many levels. So unlike us, who almost took for granted usually hitting as many shows as we reasonably could on spring, summer, and fall tours (say between 5-15 a year average) it must have been a very unusual and eye opening experience, especially compared to 81!

    But of course as first show says, much of this is perspective dependent fo sho!
    Like many of our more aaa “mature” heads here, they got turned off in the 80s because of the environment changes etc.
    if your normal perspective was the Fillmore, even a small hockey rink might become unenjoyable, especially with reserved seating and so many people, comparatively.But If all you’ve ever known is Giants stadium, and never freaked freely in Maine, or Cali, Hampton, or any of the many sweet, smaller, outta the way places they used to be able to play, well your perspective might not think things so bad?
    To me no more GA was the biggest negative factor that effected our show enjoyment. Sure a stadium is never gonna give you the same vibe, but if you were able to hang out where you wanted, which as sound freaks was usually the SB, it made a big positive difference.

    So the slow but steady population growth, later exasperated by the tsunami after 87, which also attracted too many civilian non heads just about for the bollocks, which led to having to play big crappy venues in crappy places, and no wonder folks used to a completely different experience in every way, gave up…

  • daverock
    Joined:
    Sense of place

    Another factor in crowd behaviour may be related to where the show took place. The shows I saw were in London, so U.S. Deadheads had to travel some considerable distance to be there. This must have made it impossible for many who followed the band to attend. I have never read a message on the board from anyone in the U.S. who went to Wembley in 1990. What distinguished those who travelled from those who didn't ? Lack of responsibilities? More money? Youth...
    I don't know if this relevant, but young Brits abroad used to have a terrible reputation for behaving less responsibly abroad than they did at home, simply because they were on holiday. They were renowned for over doing it in Amsterdam in the 90's where some of them flocked for the ready availability of dope. A few hours after arriving, many of them would be incapacitated!

    So...in a nutshell, the shows I saw cannot be regarded as typical simply because they took place in England.

  • mkav
    Joined:
    ORO

    I saw the GD and offshoots when I could from 1975 until, well, today. I was never what you'd call "hardcore" in that I never went on the road, but was, and am, a very avid fan. I guess I'm a little clueless since, other than the sheer size of the crowd and therefore venues, I never really noticed the deterioration in the "quality" of the fanbase that I've read so much about.
    Well, until 1995. I was in Maryland Heights, Mo. for the show after the Noblesville fiasco. The fans in the lot were pissed. The band was pissed based on the letter they circulated, nd their general demeanor.
    The 7/6/95 show was lackluster (great setlist, though)...partly due to Jerry's health, but I'm also sure due to the band's state of mind.
    I appreciate the perspective of those were more intimately involved with the entire scene than I was, over time. Thanks for posting.

  • 1stshow70878
    Joined:
    Oro

    Nice essay Pedro!
    It is about perspective I suppose.
    I had so few shows compared to everyone here but that timeline felt the same. Luckily I had nice venues so the ugliness just wasn't that noticeable. That said I knew I was done after my '94 show and even had the weird feeling that either Jerry or I wouldn't be around much longer. Somehow I'm still here, lol.
    Cheers

  • Oroborous
    Joined:
    Like sands through the hourglass…

    Saw a few shows between Jan 79 and at the last one, 29 years ago tonight!
    Not sure I remember as much free stuff early on, more so over the years for sure.
    Same with the folks that Daverock described.
    Basically no hangers early on, but by the end the ratio was phuched, with too many posers and way too many people who came just to party, (or worse, bye/sell bad drugs,) wether for only Shakedown street or the show itself.
    All I can say is I’m glad there were no phones yet…these folks were clueless enough! And I try not to be prejudiced, but I will always unfortunately have an aversion to extremely unwashed dudes wearing nothing but a skirt…

    And I’m not singling out touchers either, as there were always plenty of nice new young people coming along who were really into the music and wanted to learn the ways and means from us veteran heads etc,
    No, these folks I speak of were not heads!
    I have younger cousins who came up then who saw hundreds of shows and ended up working in and around the organization that are nothing like the clueless hordes that overtook us.
    Unfortunately, the sudden popularity brought a literal explosion of too many and the wrong kind, to an all ready fragile environment that could in no way sustain itself. It saddens me all these years later to think back to it while it was happening, experientially. The thing you loved more than anything, slowly dying right in front of you and not much you could do.

    You could feel it building slowly through the eighties, probably similar to how my “generation” of heads noticeably grew and thus felt to originals during the late seventies success, but it hadn’t gotten too bad yet.
    85 was perhaps the peak of how big it could get and still be fun etc.
    And boy was it fun ; )
    I don’t recall it in 90 as much as Daverock describes—probably perspective, and after 87 which became so unbearable I skipped fall tour (that and the venues they now played because of the population explosion)—so maybe after 87, we were just desensitized and 90 didn’t seem so bad? I’m also positive the venues I was at in 90 helped a little.
    But then you could still have some choices…
    Luckily, I recall things did settle back somewhat, though never like when I started, or before I’m sure, and by the end it seemed completely ruined.
    Too many people, most of whom didn’t know or give too shits for us, our culture, our host places, (or even the music )we so lovingly tried to keep alive all those years.
    Popularity, this kiss of death, like that Eagles song, the last resort “call something paradise and kiss it goodbye”

    All these years later I’ve had a long time to reflect on it, and get better acquainted with the music of later era (91-95) shows. What I’ve found is, it wasn’t so much the music that turned me off near the end, it was the set and setting etc. I grumbled then because I wasn’t seeing what I wanted to see, but that doesn’t mean it’s bad. Just perspective…
    No, I now think where and how I experienced the Dead then had much more to do with my dwindling enthusiasm at the end.

    And I’m not talking about being electric, I mean in any psychoactive state or not, having to go to big, expensive cities with all they are, instead of kind small and/or awesome outta the way places like Maine, Roanoke, the Rocks or all the sweet little places: Greek, Frost etc Even Hampton BITD…
    Yeah, big, horrible venues in big horrible expensive cities, with uptight cops, overrun by selfish clueless rude wannabes, and worst of all, shitty sound!
    Although the dead’s legendary crew always did a damn fine job with what/where they were forced to work, let’s face it, sitting up on the side of a giant stadium hearing only half of an overly stereo mix if your an Audiofile tech is torture!
    We went to try to experience the MUSIC the best way we could, wether in the front row, or in front of the soundboard. Later, when GA unfortunately was not allowed, or only existent on the floor of huge stadiums, we’d just hope we could find a spot directly back but in the middle to try to get the best stereo sound we could under the circumstances, and hope some non DH regular civilian type concert goer didn’t show up half way through the first set and want “their” seats…
    Yep, I’ve loved the Dead probably more than is healthy lol, but getting in your thirties, and becoming a returning poor college student, having only horrible big crowded places to go to, it’s no wonder I wasn’t able to better grasp and enjoy the new music.
    Now, all these years removed, in the comfort of home etc, most of those negatively influential conditions and their memories are gone or smoothed over as age will do, and I’ve been able to finally get to know and really enjoy much of the later music. Im not suggesting that things weren’t changing musically too, just that I haven’t found things to be as dire as everyone seems to just off hand suggest.I blame that on the internet…
    But Add the setting changes, to the human practice of comparing now to “the glory days” and it’s perhaps too easy to just write it all off as undesirable.
    Im mean even if things hadn’t gotten so outta hand later on, it was never going to be the same for me as the early years in the front row, or say in 85 hanging out at the SB, just like that probably wouldn’t have felt the same to someone who experienced the music and scene ten years prior to me.
    As awesome as say front row Rochester in 1980 was, I’m sure it was nothing like hanging at the Fillmore west etc.
    So comparative experiences and personal change will always be an influential factor, but upon much further review, I’ve found the unfortunate changes popularity fostered a much bigger negative factor than just the music.
    I’ve said before, I’ll say it again, they should have taken another hiatus after Brent died! Or, if not then, after JG had the second health scare in 92.
    Sigh…
    Well, at least it was a Hellava run while it lasted!
    Singing, thank you, for a real good time!

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The bus came by. We got on. That's how it all began. Almost as soon as the Fare Thee Well shows were announced, folks started planning to meet in Chicago. They met. They connected. Things were never the same. And now, further! Or maybe Furthur.
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As the Playing in the Band never got a proper re-visit on the last night of the summer tour in Wrigley, it would seem appropriate to open the Fall tour with a little taste of that. Whoaohwohoyeayeayeah! Though this Head would be thrilled with Shakedown as the traditional NY opener. Can you tell I am looking forward to this?
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Well there you go.Playing in the Band opened the fall, but out at the Band Together Bay Area show. That opens many possibilities for tomorrow night's opener.
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Missed the party on chat last night, and the show, here's the set list from MSG 11/12/17 Shakedown Street Greatest Story Ever Told Bertha Cassidy Beat It On Down the Line They Love Each Other Cumberland Blues Set 2 China Cat Sunflower I Know You Rider Ship of Fools Terrapin Station Drums Space Standing on the Moon The Other One Casey Jones
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[Hope 80sFan won't mind my reposting of his comments from last night]: Saw Dead and Company at the Garden last night. Really fun, high-energy show. Awesome Shakedown to kick things off. John Mayer ripped through a fantastic Bertha a few songs later. Yes, i might have just been in the moment, but this version truly blew the roof off the place. I believe Greatest Story Ever Told and BIODTL made their Dead and Co debut in the first set. Both great and the crowd responded in kind. Took a few minutes to get on the same page, but the Cumberland to close the set was very nice as well. Cool China>Rider to open the second set. Bobby didn't seem super confident vocally until the transition (to be expected i guess) but still really fun and the Rider pay-off was worth it. Ship of Fools was played for only the 3rd time and it was a nice surprise to hear Oteil sing a verse or two. What a fantastic voice! Terrapin got the crowd worked up - my only wish was that Bobby would let Mayer sing the whole song. I think he's a better fit for this one. Post drums was just ok. TOO was fun but the band saved a couple surprises for the encore, playing Samson and Werewolves of London. Great way to end the show and send thousands of new yorkers (and folks like me from the great state of NJ) home happy. I loved being back in the Garden - it was fun seeing some old friends from back in the day and meeting their spouses, kids, etc. Just an amazing night all around. This is definitely not an oldies act. There is REAL energy and magic both on stage and in the crowd. Please see this band. I last saw them 2 years ago and they have drastically improved even since then.
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Hey Oat Man,Glad to hear from you. At first I thought your message meant that you had come up to the big city, but now I see you are re-posting from another. But there was a Daydreamers moment at the Garden Sunday night: I spotted Tom Hanlon a few rows in front of me. That little red cowboy hat is hard to miss. AND he had his pic-a-nic T-shirt on. A highlight for me was the debut of authentic O-bombs: at the appropriate spots in Bertha, and then in the bass run-up to The Other One. Ba-ba-ba BWAAMMM!! Shook the dump to its foundations. Good times, good times.
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Cool you scored a Red Hat Sighting. That 2nd set had a bunch of A list songs. Here's the set list from setlist.fm. Set 1: 1. Hell in a Bucket 2. Cold Rain and Snow 3. Me and My Uncle 4. Brown-Eyed Women 5. Tennessee Jed 6. Bird Song 7. Man Smart, Woman Smarter Set 2: 8. Help on the Way 9. Slipknot! 10. Franklin's Tower 11. China Doll 12. Estimated Prophet 13. Drums 14. Space 15. A Love Supreme 16. Stella Blue 17. St. Stephen 18. Not Fade Away Encore: 19. U.S. Blues
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.
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Here's wishing you all a very wonderful Christmas. Hope Santa leaves you some Dead music under the tree! Peace, GOB
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all the lights are shinin on a bright red cowboy hat at 4:45 of that clip, but that hat looks bigger than the one I saw at MSG. Maybe for home games he brings the big hat? But here's to Summer '18 tour!! Pre-sales registration by Friday.
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the rrrgrrr I knew would not have appeared in public without an avatar
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Godspeed to all our Compadres heading to Mexico this week!! Have fun, stay safe, take pictures! XO, Anita
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9 years 5 months
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That's right the krazy klown is back... Can't find the bus though. RGIGGLES where are you?!
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I always knew that from the first time I met y'all in Santa Clara and Chi-town. Took me a while to find our location in the forum.
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...but at least we know how the song goes. Bought a new Miata a couple years ago and there have been some new model growing pains. Been spending all my allocated forum time on Miata.net hence my absence. Not running for mayor again (permanently retired), but missed y'all so had to check back here. Going to D&C at Shoreline again this year, on July 3...(really looking forward to that!)
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Where's that confounded bridge?!
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So bad you had to change you name, eh? I forgive you whatever it is that you did. That is, after all, what family does.
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..BACK AT YA ASL!
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Lovely to see you again my friend. I can give you a DM on the rgr saga. Only if you really want to know.
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Good to show my klown face again. (Sure, send me a PM I am definitely curious.)
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17 years
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i have not heard...how was the time on the beach? I just heard third hand from son's friend...was awesome, but no details.
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Two guideposts of my musical world will be at Lockn Festival in August: George Clinton brings the Mothership Connection to the hippies on Friday night,and Dead and Co do two sets on Saturday and Sunday. Is it crazy to think that Dr. Funkenstein could join the boys for a number? Be still my heart.
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Happy Dyngus Day to all the Daydreamers.
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love the lyrics to this song. no clue what it "means" but it is fun to listen to. has been one of my favorites since the beginning for me.
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The calendar has turned over again, so we are in countdown to SUMMER TOUR!! Hee yah We got two nights in Camden and two nights at Lockn. Bring it ON !!
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I lit up from RenoI was trailed by twenty hounds Didn't get to sleep that night Till the morning came around
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Are we ready? See you down the road or at a couch stop here or there.
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Hey now SSDDers! I trust everyone's been soaking up plenty of summertime Dead & Company (in person or vicariously á la couch). Sounds like Geo's got the bus warming up. Less than twelve days til I saddle up the palomino and head out to Albuquerque for the final leg of 2018's Summer Tour. Anybody else going to be at Albuquerque? What about the Boulder shows? . . . In the meantime, looking forward to listening to the west coast run starting tonight. Onward!
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I ran into the Devil, babeHe loaned me twenty bills I spent that night in Utah In a cave up in the hills
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because it was really, really nice to be in my own bed instead of slogging across the parking lot with a long drive to come when the music stopped. You youngsters have fun out there!
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Would it offend anyone if I said that there were other musical acts at Lockn that I enjoyed more than DeadCo ? Part was just novelty (Turkuaz and Pigeons etc were all new to me); part was style (I have been a true funk soldier in Uncle Jam's army about as long as I have been a Head); I had hoped that the time with the Meters and the general atmosphere would have brought out a funkier Dead, particularly on Big O's side; part was that night one of the Dead seemed like a Christmas sermon, more for the occasional visitor than for regulars. Kind of tried and true material. Add the bar was set very high for guitar playing after 2 nights of Derek Trucks (what did that guitar ever do to him?); Joe Russo, Blackbyrd McKnight, and the dude who played Zeppelin covers for Umphrey. But also we bailed before the "third set" with Lettuce that went on to the wee hours; so we missed something that maybe they held back. We also kept in the back of our minds what John M had said in his "Tales" interview beforehand: it you don't "get" Night One of a two-nighter, just stay tuned. Second night was awesome, opening like a second set would: meandering and easing into Playin'. The graphics and imagery were a treat. And US Blues is back in a big way. The event itself was a smash hit. This was our first festival and we were delighted by the logistics and the crowd. 30,000 friends and neighbors for 3 nights and we never so much as heard one person raise their voice at another. You know our Love will NOT FADE AWAY. PS I had been agnostic on JRAD until we heard them midnight Friday. Wow. More oriented to the future than the past.
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some friends introduced me to some JRAD videos a while back; those guys are pretty great. I did love the Sunday Dead & Co show. REALLY loved Branford, as always.
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~SALE SALE~ BOB WEIR BOSTONNov. 15 .Sec BALCLC, Row V, Seat 1 USD $76.40 take $59.50. Nov. 16 Balcony Center Row P | Seat 23 $134.50. take 104.50 Also have Nov. 16 Parking pass for $122.35. Will take 99.00 or just something. Add it free with purchase of Nov 16 tix. It was mixed in5. Will take 99.00 or just something. Add it free with purchase of Nov 16 tix. $420 Alaska Air non stop round trip PDX and Boston.
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Hey, here is a great little project to support. https://deadheadstories.org/ Cool concept, righteous folks, remembering the past, honoring the present and paying it forward. They are like minded ladies and gents who got creative and put together something real nice...2500 stories so far, with maybe ten percent or so going into the first book. All volunteer, all proceeds go to seed Rex, Seva and like minded foundations. If you have an extra buck or three, feel free to donate to their non-profit. If you're brave or curious or want a cool read this fall or a great present for later, spring for a book. If your ship came in, and the cargo is wearing you down, perhaps a small donation to lighten your load would be appropriate. All good and pretty amazing, just like SD'ers everywhere... Cheers,cya down the road g
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anyone going? I got tix. gonna be hot...in every way

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13 years 4 months

In reply to by mkav

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The Mrs. and I will be making our first Western Dead venture to Boulder.
There must be a reason they like to close summer tours there, and we intend to find out what is.

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9 years 5 months

In reply to by mkav

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Hey MKav...we be there, missed you last year, but we have killer floor seats on Johnny's side; be a great time to meet you brother...promised not to throw a party this year or rent a party bus; sure was fun last year!

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17 years

In reply to by geomeister

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yeah, we missed the party in Dallas in 17. I now live in San Antonio, so it's a ROAD TRIP!