By suggestion: so, the surviving members reunite. Who should be on lead guitar and why?
I'll vote for....
Steve Kimock...I really dig his stuff with Zero and recently I saw him fill in for Mark Karan on the Ratdog tour. He is really great and the first time I remember hearing about him was from a flyer I got handed at a GD show at shoreline in early 90. Jerry Garcia once touted Kimock as his "favorite unknown guitar player." "Emancipate yourself from mental slavery...none but ourselves can free our minds"
I have long thought it would be good to hear him play with the boys, especially on the Hunter-Garcia tunes. Different from Jerry for sure (in singing voice too!), but a fine player with a similar sense of melody and timing, who could shed new light on those songs and also stay true to them.
with my prior suggestion in another thread, for both Jackie Greene and Mark Karan. Reason #1: Dem shoes too big for one pair of feet to fill Reason #2: The February DFO show seems compelling evidence. Jackie does an admirable job with the Jerry-sung songs and isn't half bad on guitar. Mark, to me, plays from a similar space to earlier Jerry, and, well, that's my preferred era. Looking forward to seeing others preferences as well. I bet we can fill this thread up pretty quick. Conversation is always more interesting than recitation, so speak your mind and not someone else's.
Mark & Jackie
I could see that combo - they were great together at the February 2008 Obama gig. But I think Mark would do just fie as the sole lead guitarist. Gans/GD Hour blog
GD Hour station list
GD Hour station list
This summer at Red Rocks was the first time I got to see/hear Mark Karan and Rat Dog play. The set list was to my surprise a lot of Jerry tunes and I was blown away by his playing. He gets my vote. Derek and Warren totally rocked as well. And I'll risk sharing an insane thought I've had that with all the technology, lasers etc. that exists couldn't Jerry still play with the band? Maybe for one song at least like say for an Eyes of the World 2nd set? Sometimes we live no particular way but our own.
JK from DSO would have been a better choice
Warren, though a very talented technical guitarist (the world is full of them) lacks the understanding of melody and composition that Jerry had. Every time I've seen him I am left with the impression that "it's all about him". The surviving members are making a mistake by not embracing the Jerry sound. This, imho is the reason why lots of fans are turned off by the post Jerry sound. P&F and Ratdog are not even close to the GD experience. Why should this current line up be any better than seeing P&F or Ratdog? Let's face it, there would have been no GD without Jerry and I appreciate that the surviving 4 have the good sense to call this The Dead and not the Grateful Dead which would have tarnished their reputation much more than Jerry's decline in his last years ever did. Instead of running away from Jerry's sound, which is the only reason they are able to have a tour in the first place, they should do their best to embrace it. While they are all talented musicians in their own right one has to wonder if their names would even be remotely familliar to us now if there had never been a Jerry Garcia. I am sorry, if you don't agree with my opinions here and I will respect your own opinions on this matter but I felt it was worth saying. Peace
Has something there. Hank Williams jr., brought his Father back to life!!! Nice thought but the spontinaitey just wouldn't be there. 1 song every show would be killer though!!!!Peace
I agree with your thinking and values ,but who do you think can replace Jerry?We all know that answer. So who would you use as a replacement?
Right you are bout one thing dire wolf
You're certainly entitled to an opinion, and it is also worth saying!!!!!!!! :-D Think ALL opinions worth saying out loud here, as long as they're not said in a mean and insulting way bout anybody.********************************** Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone, you will still exist, but you have ceased to live. Samuel Clemens
i only know the Grateful Dead not the Dead or P&F or Ratdog, am looking forward to a couple shows this spring and will hear it then. i saw the GD after Brent and something to me was missing, there must be a reason the core four have warren again for this tour. . Like the comment on how they are calling them elves the Dead and Not GD totally agree i kinda liked the name the Other ones too was kinda cool, subliminal in a way. I do like the set lists I see from P&F and RD some Good Ole GD in there stuff the GD hadn't played for years and great lin up too. Well as for me as long as I walk away with my head blown off saying to myself that was fucking awesome and singning to myself "think i come back here every now and then time to time" BUZZ. Ever notice Deadheads always look like they always have this tune playing in thier heads just walking around smilin. oh yea I can't turn off my head show either. going home people going home. can't wait. Wonder if some of these venues security and towns are thinking "O fuck thier back here they come again to empty the liquor stores and reign a somewhat controlled madness upon the the masses. The circus is back in town yeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaa. the grass ain't greener the wine ain't sweeter.
This topic actually inspired me to sign up, just so I could ask this question. Why would anyone want to listen to The Grateful Dead with a Jerry Impersonator? I mean, I love the man as much as anyone, and for this reason I know that a "replacement" who simply aped his style and approach would be more of an insult to his memory than an homage. The guitarists mentioned are all capable musicians who love the music and seem to jell well with the rest of the group. What more could we ask for? Isn't THAT the spirit of this band? A group of fine musicians playing great music and connecting both with each other and with the audience through the music? And if so, can a member of the group be too "Bluesy" or too "Technical" or "Tweaky" if they're playing WITH the band, FOR the audience, and FROM the heart? That being said, I don't think I honestly want an all out Grateful Dead reunion. It wouldn't be the same...even if it sounded it. Just my (not so?) humble opinion.
Stu Allen of The Schwag (GD Tribute) and JGB w/Melvin Seals.....he nails the Jerry vocals while still making them his own and has both the JGB and GD song catalog down....I feel like he would be the one to truly take it "Furthur" into uncharted territory all the while maintaining what has started all of this in the first place. "In a bed, in a bed, by the waterside I will lay my head. Listen to the river sing sweet songs, to rock my soul."
saw with P&F few years back
CHRIS ROBINSON did a great job in my opinion saw bout six shows wit Chris singing all smokin shows
John Kadlecik's efforts
I feel the boys made a good choice with John for Furthur. Him and DSO have been playing these songs for many years and I feel he knows how to simulate a Jerry lead. Even though it is just a simulation it is still very special. What an honor to be asked to play with actual members after playing in a cover band. I read an interview with John and he said the first song he jammed with them was Playing in the Band... how appropriate! I feel him and the boys are enjoying the situation as well as the fans. So dont be castin stones for playin in the band!
Go ahead, make fun of me.
Merle would be interesting!
I actually hope to see him later this year! Anyway, as to the question. I have two personal faves over the years. I have reluctantly gotten on the John bandwagon. He has impressed the hell out of me both with Furthur and with DSO. I thought I wouldn't want to hear an "impersonator" but he loves and knows the music and I hear his own ideas coming through while being reminiscent of Jerry. My other fave was Steve Kimock (of course with him you're only talking about guitar and not vocals). I saw him with the Other Ones years ago and also saw him twice with Ratdog. I love his guitar and he brings a somewhat more "original" sound. That said I've enjoyed all the various incarnations and appreciate the contributions of all the guitarists who've filled in. There will never be another Jerry, but I decided sometime ago to enjoy the music and stop being overly critical. Life's too short! Peace.
about a year gone by
since the last remarks on the subject--how are folks feeling about John K's work and how he's settling in (and/or shaking things up)?
John is doing an outstandings job
He knows the music inside and out. He does sometimes remind me of Jerry with his playing but at the same time he is bringing his own ideas to the music. I loved his rendition of "Fool in the Rain" at Hampton last Friday. That was completely his own! I haven't been this excited about the scene since the early 90's! No one will ever replace Jerry but John is carrying the music into the 21st century!
Nope no debate here!
JK is the man! I feel the same as tphokie1 - it's an exciting time for dead heads (well mostly, there are still those who cannot/will not accept JK). I think they are missing out big time! "It's got no signs or dividing line and very few rules to guide"
Right on Jack
JK's the man, just wish he'd solo a bit more. But I am thankful what is there.
Loving John with Furthur!
His energy, enthusiasm, and love for the music are obvious. And I'd also like to give a big round of applause for Joe, Jeff, and Sunshine - new additions to the group who are taking us all Furthur indeed!
I happened to catch Furthur in Boca with 2 friends who saw about 60 shows in the late 80-95 period. Both thought this version of Furthur was in some ways better than many of the shows with Jerry. This band is tight everyone seems to be playing with an incredible intensity and skill. Perhaps because they are wiser and older Phil and Bobby realize that these remaining years are the only time left for them to play this music that means so much to so many friends.John in particular seems to have really grown as a guitar player-he does not sound as tentative on the vocals as Winter 2010 and while his playing is reminiscent of Jerry's he clearly is playing the songs his own way. I also have come to enjoy Jeffs contributions however where we sat the volume level on the mix was often set low for Jeff. Joe and Sunshine are the icing on the cake-I would love to see Phil and Bob grace them with at least one song where they would be the lead singers they deserve it. And the road goes on forever.... BobbaLee
Grateful Dead music is an in the moment spiritual kinda music, furthur is to rehearsed and controlled by Phil I'd like to see them wing it like in the old days no prearranged setlist. Steve Kimock was Jerry's pick, that was his favorite. Furthur, "has got to many signs divided lines and to many rules to guide". Let the music be FREE!
Fill Gerry's shoes
I vote for Jeff Matson. I seen Jeff play for years and years - The only problem is he might be too good! lol
I've been a fan for over 40
I've been a fan for over 40 years - as much as it pains me to say this - the last couple of Grateful Dead shows were lackluster, Jerry was listless (and we know myriad reasons why) The fact is that a Further show I saw in Chicago was one of the very best rock concerts I have ever seen - John was great - the last Dead show I saw with Warren was better than several of the last GD shows I saw. I like Steve Kimock and saw Stu Allen play at the Great American Music Hall last year and he was excellent. The main thing for me is to keep the music rolling - whoever the core guys chose to play with is fine by me.
I don't think it's fair to compare Furthur to the Dead. JK is doing a fantastic job. The music is vibrant and energized. BUt JK is an artist in his own right; even though he maybe started as a Jerry clone, he is developing his own voice. Personally I think it's a great thing to see (hear). ___________________________________ If you get confused, listen to the music play. Robert Hunter
JK is the man for the job
saw many many g-dead shows over the years, saw rat dog many times, Phil and friends many times, saw dead with Warren and after evaluating it all Furthur is the best since Gerry left us.I've been to at least one show on every tour and they just keep getting tighter and tighter playing together. Saw them twice in March and folks if you never saw the Grateful Dead this is as close as you can get to the "Music" JK is the man for the job. Can't wait to see them this summer!
Do your self a favor..
The music is all right I just think this band Furthur is way better than what were getting. Go to archives.org and seek out the DSO show with Jeff Mattson from April 15, 2011 now stream Slipknot, that is what it's supposed to sound like.
Those Are Pretty Big Shoes
I went to see the showing of the Grateful Dead Movie last night. Seeing Jerry in his prime reminded me that no one can fill his shoes, period. I happen to enjoy this version of Furthur, but it simply is unfair to compare John K. to Jerry. However, that doesn't prevent me from getting into Furthur and appreciating John's contributions, as well as seeing Phil and Bobby still playing the music that we all love. "Sometimes the songs that we hear are just songs of our own."
and honestly (having seen the movie last night too) I think John K. would be at the front of the line saying the same. The thing that really struck me at his first Furthur show was not so much how he was a Jerry clone as how he was someone who spoke the Jerry idiom, though, and that was a GREAT thing to have in that band.
mary's question is good, but the thing is, when may they get back together? also, i wonder why this band doesn't have mickey and billy. were they not asked, or were they asked but they were busy doing their own thing, or just didn't want to commit the time that this band is putting in. i don't know. someone does. what's the REAL story. (speaking of REAL stories, i never heard why kimock split with phil) i haven't had the chance to see this band, but the reviews have been splendid. i did get to see jk play with dso on a few occasions, and that really left me empty. i saw one show in particular that i was very familiar with, so that was kind of a bummer. everyone around me loved it, but i knew the real show, and their version was just weak. i know it's an unfair comparison, but that's what we heads love to talk about. i haven't heard dso with mattson yet, but people i know who really like dso say jeff plays circles around jk, but i want to check it out myself. i've seen almost every version of phil, my favorite SHOW being one with warren/jimmy, but i won't say that was my favorite group. i really got into the variety phil kept coming up with. the most resent version of the dead, w/warren, had everyone saying, just like now, that THIS incarnation is the best yet. we seem to hear that a lot over the years, the most recent is the best. SO, IF the survivors do get back together, who would i want??? i can't vote for jk just yet cause i haven't seen him with phil and bobby, so i'm kind of still wondering. i did see a new years show with the survivors plus jimmy, it was great, but jimmy bores me to tears with widespread, so i have to think it just might be the band, not just him. everyone seems to love jk, is there anyone out there who isn't???
one more thing...
i too saw the movie last night. man, those ARE big shoes to fill. what is it about jerry that turned on so many? i think that what made jerry such an amazing artist, was not just his talent, lots of people have talent, but how you felt like you knew jerry, and i mean personally, just by hearing him play. that might be every artists goal, but oh so few can really do it. do you ever just sit back and wonder how lucky we were!
don't replace, just embrace
Nothing can replace Jerry. Period. Instead, the remaining members should embrace the sound in their own light in moving forward, perhaps celebrating the sound that Jerry created, not so much duplicating him with a 'replacement'. Yet, the remaining members are just the passionate creative types to actually not give in to finding a 'replacement' but someone who is a creative extension of their sound.
as for the movie - I was
as for the movie - I was reminded visually of the energy Jerry once had that was so sadly lacking in the final days - it actually made me sad --what a waste
My take on it...
...is that while I enjoy going to Furthur shows and they are the closest thing to a GOGD show from back in the day, they dont speak to my soul the way the GD did. I've talked to a lot of friends about this and I find that folks seem to be in one of three main "camps": 1. JK is amazing and the 'Jerry sound' is alive and well so they're all good. 2. JK is a Jerry clone and they want nothing to do with this side-band incarnation. 3. JK is a Jerry clone but they're willing to either overlook it, or sort of ignore it to have that show experience and to enjoy other band members. I think I personally fall into the third camp because I can still enjoy a Furthur show with JK, but I sort of tune him out unless I find him playing more like himself and not like Jerry, and that's when I appreciate him more. I do find it really odd though, that people who vehemently love JK will typically say that he's his own man and isn't a Jerry clone but then they usually go on to say that it's so great that he can sound just like Jerry much of the time. Seems a bit contradictory to me but what do I know? I feel that JK was a lazy choice for the Boys to make. In fact, I was rather shocked when in one interview I heard Bobby say that he was an easy choice because he already knew all the songs even better than they - Phil and Bobby - did. I'm sure he's a really nice guy, but that's just a weird reason to hire someone to fill such big shoes, unless your main goal is to be sort of a tribute band and you want/need to simulate as closely as possible, the actual original sound. Conversely, I've also heard that Steve Kimmock is a really difficult person to work/play with, but you know what? Jerry loved him apparently, and I've seen Steve in person and he's phenomenal. He's definitely his own artist and isn't trying to recreate another artist's sound, if you will. And that is the exact point where JK loses me. When he plays in a non-Jerry like way I prefer him much more. When he plays "just like Jerry", to me it's recreating something that was meant to be 'in the moment' anyway. If we think about the whole raison d'etre of the GOGD, wasn't much of it about creating music in and of the moment? "When we're finished playing a show, we're done with it so the tapers/fans can have it..." Like those old shows where they played based on their mood or where one of them was going in that moment, sans set lists? Today's Furthur - with the pre-determined set lists and Bobby's constant hand signals instructing band members on what to do next - feels very rehearsed to me. I don't feel that same "whoa!" when they jam now because even the jams are restrained and rehearsed compared to what was. And yes, I cannot help comparing because I was fortunate to see many Jerry shows, both with and without the GD, so how can one not compare when the same music is being played today? People like to say "Furthur is taking it further, mannn..." but I just don't see that at all. They've found a lead guitarist who simulates Jerry to the extreme, they mix up some of the set lists and song pairings, etc. I just don't see that as really taking it all that much further, but then again, YMMV and all that! Lastly (and then I'll be quiet), I just don't think a person who has made their entire career based on copying note for note, another musician, can then step into that musician's shoes and suddenly be himself and stop copying. Here's the defining difference to me - Jerry created each note *in that moment*. He was a creative artist, drawing on years of influence, knowledge and participation in a myriad of other musical genres, not to mention a life well-lived. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't, but even when it didn't, I could feel him out there on a limb, reaching for something new to create. He had an artistic vision and drive and was willing to fail in order to sometimes succeed in incredible moments. With JK, I just feel overall that he's trying to play the way Jerry played. He is very proficient to be sure. But I personally don't feel he is a creative artist in the way Jerry was. And therein lies the difference, and a rather huge one at that. So I guess after nearly two years of Furthur, I'm still not thrilled with this lead guitar replacement but I have accepted that for whatever reasons, it's not likely to change so I enjoy what I can from it, and turn to my GOGD music when I need to feel something more deeply. *steps off soapbox and back into the shadows*
I just want them to try...
I just want them to try to put on the best show they can for the crowd. After listening to some of the shows on this tour and hearing the ovation after Brokedown last night I;d say they're doing a good job. I t hink Furthur has been improving each tour and I've felt some magic moments listening lately. That's just my opinion. Oh yeah, if you don't see me around here for a bit, don't worry about me.
Vaguely related to this thread
I don't know if anyone else is having the experience of hearing a new-ish song and going Dang! Jer could have done such a great version of that... The other day I had the occasion to listen to Dylan's "Things Have Changed" (2000) after a long hiatus, and thought how Jer could have just nailed it. Imagining it, while good, is not as good as the real thing though. Maybe the hologram Jerry will do it.
Don't kid yourself, JK CAN!
Go to the archive and listen to the first 10 shows Furthur played. The original 3 and Wallingford especially. To qualify: * I don't think anybody can fill Jerry's "Big Shoes" * JK is an excellent guitar player, especially of GD songs After seeing my last Furthur show on 7/5/12 I don't know what to say. I had a great time. It satisfied/pacified me. I know this is really about Phil & Bob at their ages right now -- but it could be so much more... I just wonder sometimes. If you were really excellent at what you did, but you weren't the original one to do it... If the company who made it came up to you and said: "We want you to do your thing with our product. Not that you'll have total freedom... No, you'll have to do what we say. You're under our thumb. But you get it all -- The money; The babes; The spotlight. Would you do it? Whatever you wish to keep, you better grab it fast.
I like JK
just for being JK. I like him in this role but also when he can step outside it. There's one guitarist on the scene who annoyed me so much many years ago with his slavish mimickry of Jerry's every vocal idiosyncrasy, including mispronunciation of words, that I've never gone to see any of his bands again, even though I have no idea whether he's thought better of this idea or not. That's even worse than the note-for-note clones in my view; really fingernails-on-the-blackboard stuff. But it has its fans, so there's plenty of room in the big tie-dyed tent, I guess.
There is a difference...
Between being an ape or a clone and playing a song the way it is supposed to be played. The problem here is that this is "jam-band" genre. So that means not only that the lead guitar has to go off on his own tangent, he needs to do that in synch with other band members. So I guess you have to give JK credit for being able to do those two things well. I suppose it really is too much to ask Phil & Bob to keep the tempos up. Why would I be saddened by that? It's like asking your dog not to grow old. They do and they slow down. When you're not that old yet and still have the energy and memory it's just discordant. So I am ready to blame me rather than anybody else for not being satisfied with Furthur. (Boy, that was a long process!)
Fillin Big Shoes....
.....there was only one Django(who Jerry listened to--which turned me on to him mid 70's), one Hendrix & one Jerome Garcia-- ya can't fill those shoes......ya just have to have a good time--listening --instead of being critics----let the critics do that --& don't listen to the critics--I never did-never will--- I've seen shows at JonesBeach,N.Y.--A.G.(after Garcia) years ago----& they were great shows---alas-the "spark" was missing--or else I wasn't "in Space" as in the early70's! It's like losing family members or very close friends----& in Jerry we all feel we lost both----AND THAT IS THE BEAUTY OF IT!!--to make us feel like family!! As a song I remember sez--"...many friends we have----many friends we have lost along the way.." Just one Grateful man's opinion....Keep Smilin--ALOHA--Da Roach!h
Playing with The Dead?
I seriously hate to say this. I really do. But I think that I should be playing with the surviving members of the Dead. I first heard Jerry in 1972 when I was 14 and living in England. I heard the excerpt from Dark Star and Love scene from Zabriskie Point. My world changed. Out went the guitar players I'd liked, Ritchie Blackmore, Johnny Winter, Paul Kossof, even Hendrix, and Zappa receded. I was just overwhelmed with Jerry's beauty and originality. I immediately set about learning some of the licks. About 4 licks into Love Scene I stopped short. Wait, I thought. What I like about Garcia is that he's original, creative and different. If I just learn his licks that's not really being like him; it's not really following his example. I realised that I had to aspire to being genuinely creative myself, finding some source of creativity in myself, and allowing my own sound and style to develop. I saw that being a copier wasn't what he was about, and I didn't want it to be what I was about. A lot of Jerry's feel has got into my playing by osmosis, and sheer exposure, but I've never been interested in playing his lines. In a lot of ways to do so seems to be completely counter to everything that he and The Grateful Dead were about. To me they were about originality, being yourself, doing your own thing, I've never really understood why some folks think that copying Jerry's lines and the tribute band feel is any way to take the music forward, or is in any real way a tribute to the Grateful Dead's originality. I feel we must push forward into creativity. I've listened to a lot of other players over the years, hardly any I like as much as Jerry, but their influence has added to the mix. And different players do have their merits, fortes, and unique voices. But I always seem to come back to the jamming sound and feel. I really would like an audition with any of the Grateful Dead members, but it's so difficult to even get to speak to them. If anyone out there likes my playing and would like to help, of course I would be seriously Grateful. Here are a few musical links: http://soundcloud.com/steveburch/fire-on-the-mountain http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xs9a1Qho8Zk&feature=g-upl&context=G2837c… http://www.steveburchmusic.com/ http://soundcloud.com/steveburch/eyes-of-the-world-and-jam http://www.myspace.com/fingersofthemoon If anyone likes my playing and would like to help I'd be very grateful. I now live in the Bay area about 30 miles from where Phil and Bob live. Any kind of audition would be great. As I said at the beginning, I hate to blow my own trumpet in this way, but you know what the song says " sometimes your cards ain't worth a dime if you don't lay 'em down". Love and Best Wishes, Steve Burch.