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    marye
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    In one of the other topics, one of the folks seemed not to be so sure of the reception he'd get for saying he was a youth minister at his church. In my experience, Deadheads span the full spectrum from Agnostic to Zoroastrian. I've met atheist Deadheads, Muslim Deadheads, Buddhist Deadheads, Catholic Deadheads, Jewish Deadheads, and Wiccan Deadheads. My Deadhead friends are all over the map on this stuff, and as far as I'm concerned one of the real richnesses of the scene is the ability to see how things look to other folks and, sometimes, experience it from their world. Believe it if you need it, if you don't, just pass it on. But talk about it here, and please maintain a safe respectful place to do so.

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  • marye
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    seriously.
    the part about Hunter being on tour was a dead giveaway... alas. People have been saying all kinds of loony stuff about the Dead since forever, and it's pretty much the case that you can find someone in the scene connected to pretty much anything over the span of 40-some years, and what it all means is probably pretty much in the eye of the beholder. Especially from the perspective of hindsight. I mean, it would be darn tough to reduce Owsley Stanley to a quickie formula like "Satanist CIA plot." Though I'm sure some have tried. And he's one guy in a real complex scene of notoriously freethinking types. So pay attention, and don't lose your critical thinking skills, but don't make yourself nuts, either. That would be my opinion anyway.
  • TigerLilly
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    Sherbear <3
    TOTALLY interesting and informational post on masons! :) But yeah Gonzo was being ironic about masons being satanists :)
  • Anonymous (not verified)
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    @Sherbear
    I don't think my post was the offending one. I was making the point that Masonry has nothing to do with Satanism and the temple near me is in decline though they do many good things for the poor and elderly in their community. I think the posts that should have been deleted are the ones that linked Masonry and Satanism. In fact, I was commenting on the illegitimacy of linking the two.
  • sherbear
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  • sherbear
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    I love the FreeMasons and for one to insult by false association to some evil thing is not only misguided but hurtful. Mason's are some of the greatest men to ever walk this earth. I have been raised by one and he is, always has been and will never cease to be one the greatest men in the world. The kindest, most generous, loving, faithful, dedicated, trustworthy, hard-working, truth-seeking, friend of all, beloved, unblemished individuals I have ever met. And I am proud to emulate him at every given chance. Our local Masons have contributed to every field of study, make break-though scientific research and surgeries to heal and nuture the sick and prevent death as Doctors do. For any post to reflect a Freemason associated with any malpractice on children or organ donations should be removed. (Might be time to clean up the house.) I will post true and accurate information about the Masons in a moment and it should all be read. AND WHEN YOU GET TO THE PART THAT READS.... When is a Man a Mason? Then decide if that's the kind of man you speak of? And how could you judge if you don't even know? To be a child of a Mason is the greatest honor known to many, I included. Straight sober tonight and not thowing punches just making a point.. WHAT IS A FREE & ACCEPTED MASON What’s a Mason? That’s not a surprising question. Even though Masons (Freemasons) are members of the largest and oldest fraternity in the world, and even though almost everyone has a father or grandfather or uncle who was a Mason, many people aren’t quite certain just who Masons are. The answer is simple. A Mason (or Freemason) is a member of a fraternity known as Masonry (or Freemasonry). A fraternity is a group of men (just as a sorority is a group of women) who join together because: •There are things they want to do in the world. •There are things they want to do “inside their own minds.” •They enjoy being together with men they like and respect. (We’ll look at some of these things later.) What’s Masonry? Masonry (or Freemasonry) is the oldest fraternity in the world. No one knows just how old it is because the actual origins have been lost in time. Probably, it arose from the guilds of stonemasons who built the castles and cathedrals of the Middle Ages. Possibly, they were influenced by the Knights Templar, a group of Christian warrior monks formed in 1118 to help protect pilgrims making trips to the Holy Land. In 1717, Masonry created a formal organization in England when the first Grand Lodge was formed. A Grand Lodge is the administrative body in charge of Masonry in some geographical area. In the United States, there is a Grand Lodge in each state. In Canada, there is a Grand Lodge in each province. Local organizations of Masons are called lodges. There are lodges in most towns, and large cities usually have several. There are about 13,200 lodges in the United States. If Masonry started in Great Britain, how did it get to America? In a time when travel was by horseback and sailing ship, Masonry spread with amazing speed. By 1731, when Benjamin Franklin joined the fraternity, there were already several lodges in the Colonies, and Masonry spread rapidly as America expanded west. In addition to Franklin, many of the Founding Fathers — men such as George Washington, Paul Revere, Joseph Warren, and John Hancock — were Masons. Masons and Masonry played an important part in the Revolutionary War and an even more important part in the Constitutional Convention and the debates surrounding the ratification of the Bill of Rights. Many of those debates were held in Masonic lodges. What’s a lodge? The word “lodge” means both a group of Masons meeting in some place and the room or building in which they meet. Masonic buildings are also sometimes called “temples” because much of the symbolism Masonry uses to teach its lessons comes from the building of King Solomon’s Temple in the Holy Land. The term “lodge” itself comes from the structures which the stonemasons built against the sides of the cathedrals during construction. In winter, when building had to stop, they lived in these lodges and worked at carving stone. While there is some variation in detail from state to state and country to country, lodge rooms today are set up similar to the diagram on the following page. If you’ve ever watched C-SPAN’s coverage of the House of Commons in London, you’ll notice that the layout is about the same. Since Masonry came to America from England, we still use the English floor plan and English titles for the officers. The Worshipful Master of the Lodge sits in the East (“Worshipful” is an English term of respect which means the same thing as “Honorable.”) He is called the Master of the lodge for the same reason that the leader of an orchestra is called the “Concert Master.” It’s simply an older term for “Leader.” In other organizations, he would be called “President.” The Senior and Junior Wardens are the First and Second Vice-Presidents. The Deacons are messengers and the Stewards have charge of refreshments. Every lodge has an altar holding a “Volume of the Sacred Law.” In the United States and Canada, that is almost always a Bible. What goes on in a lodge? This is a good place to repeat what we said earlier about why men become Masons: •There are things they want to do in the world. •There are things they want to do “inside their own minds.” •They enjoy being together with men they like and respect. The Lodge is the center of those activities. Masonry Does Things in the World. Masonry teaches that each person has a responsibility to make things better in the world. Most individuals won’t be the ones to find a cure for cancer, or eliminate poverty, or help create world peace, but every man and woman and child can do something to help others and to make things a little better. Masonry is deeply involved with helping people — it spends more than $1.4 million dollars every day in the United States, just to make life a little easier. And the great majority of that help goes to people who are not Masons. Some of these charities are vast projects, like the Crippled Children’s Hospitals and Burns Institutes built by the Shriners. Also, Scottish Rite Masons maintain a nationwide network of over 100 Childhood Language Disorders Clinics, Centers, and Programs. Each helps children afflicted by such conditions as aphasia, dyslexia, stuttering, and related learning or speech disorders. Some services are less noticeable, like helping a widow pay her electric bill or buying coats and shoes for disadvantaged children. And there’s just about anything you can think of in-between. But with projects large or small, the Masons of a lodge try to help make the world a better place. The lodge gives them a way to combine with others to do even more good. Masonry does things “inside” the individual Mason. “Grow or die” is a great law of all nature. Most people feel a need for continued growth and development as individuals. They feel they are not as honest or as charitable or as compassionate or as loving or as trusting as they ought to be. Masonry reminds its members over and over again of the importance of these qualities. It lets men associate with other men of honor and integrity who believe that things like honesty and compassion and love and trust are important. In some ways, Masonry is a support group for men who are trying to make the right decisions. It’s easier to practice these virtues when you know that those around you think they are important, too, and won’t laugh at you. That’s a major reason that Masons enjoy being together. Masons enjoy each other’s company. It’s good to spend time with people you can trust completely, and most Masons find that in their lodge. While much of lodge activity is spent in works of charity or in lessons in self-development, much is also spent in fellowship. Lodges have picnics, camping trips, and many events for the whole family. Simply put, a lodge is a place to spend time with friends. For members only, two basic kinds of meetings take place in a lodge. The most common is a simple business meeting. To open and close the meeting, there is a ceremony whose purpose is to remind us of the virtues by which we are supposed to live. Then there is a reading of the minutes; voting on petitions (applications of men who want to join the fraternity); planning for charitable functions, family events, and other lodge activities; and sharing information about members (called “Brothers,” as in most fraternities) who are ill or have some sort of need. The other kind of meeting is one in which people join the fraternity — one at which the “degrees” are performed. But every lodge serves more than its own members. Frequently, there are meetings open to the public. Examples are Ladies’ Nights, “Brother Bring a Friend Nights,” public installations of officers, Cornerstone Laying ceremonies, and other special meetings supporting community events and dealing with topics of local interest. Masons also sponsor Ladies groups such as The Order of Eastern Star and Amaranth, and Youth Groups such as Triangle, Rainbow, Constellation, Job’s Daughters; for girls, and Order of DeMolay for Boys. What’s a degree? A degree is a stage or level of membership. It’s also the ceremony by which a man attains that level of membership. There are three, called Entered Apprentice, Fellowcraft, and Master Mason. As you can see, the names are taken from the craft guilds. In the Middle Ages, when a person wanted to join a craft, such as the gold smiths or the carpenters or the stonemasons, he was first apprenticed. As an apprentice, he learned the tools and skills of the trade. When he had proved his skills, he became a “Fellow of the Craft” (today we would say “Journeyman”), and when he had exceptional ability, he was known as a Master of the Craft. The degrees are plays in which the candidate participates. Each degree uses symbols to teach, just as plays did in the Middle Ages and as many theatrical productions do today. (We’ll talk about symbols a little later.) The Masonic degrees teach the great lessons of life — the importance of honor and integrity, of being a person on whom others can rely, of being both trusting and trustworthy, of realizing that you have a spiritual nature as well as a physical or animal nature, of the importance of self-control, of knowing how to love and be loved, of knowing how to keep confidential what others tell you so that they can “open up” without fear. Why is Masonry so “secretive”? It really isn’t “secretive,” although it sometimes has that reputation. Masons certainly don’t make a secret of the fact that they are members of the fraternity. We wear rings, lapel pins and tie tacks with Masonic emblems like the Square and Compasses, the best known of Masonic signs which, logically, recalls the fraternity’s roots in stonemasonry. Masonic buildings are clearly marked, and are usually listed in the phone book. Lodge activities are not secret picnics and other events are even listed in the newspapers, especially in smaller towns. Many lodges have answering machines which give the upcoming lodge activities. But there are some Masonic secrets, and they fall into two categories. The first are the ways in which a man can identify himself as a Mason — grips and passwords. We keep those private for obvious reasons. It is not at all unknown for unscrupulous people to try to pass themselves off as Masons in order to get assistance under false pretenses. The second group is harder to describe, but they are the ones Masons usually mean if we talk about “Masonic secrets.” They are secrets because they literally can’t be talked about, can’t be put into words. They are the changes that happen to a man when he really accepts responsibility for his own life and, at the same time, truly decides that his real happiness is in helping others. It’s a wonderful feeling, but it’s something you simply can’t explain to another person. That’s why we sometimes say that Masonic secrets cannot ( rather than “may not”) be told. Try telling someone exactly what you feel when you see a beautiful sunset, or when you hear music, like the national anthem, which suddenly stirs old memories, and you’ll understand what we mean. “Secret societies” became very popular in America in the late 1800s and early 1900s. There were literally hundreds of them, and most people belonged to two or three. Many of them were modeled on Masonry, and made a great point of having many “secrets.” And Masonry got ranked with them. But if Masonry is a secret society, it’s the worst-kept secret in town. For an example see the WABC-TV, Channel 7, New York City news report (streaming video RealPlayer required) that aired in May 1994 Is Masonry a religion? The answer to that question is simple. No. We do use ritual in the meetings, and because there is always an altar or table with the Volume of the Sacred Law open if a lodge is meeting, some people have confused Masonry with a religion, but it is not. That does not mean that religion plays no part in Masonry — it plays a very important part. A person who wants to become a Mason must have a belief in God. No atheist can ever become a Mason. Meetings open with prayer, and a Mason is taught, as one of the first lessons of Masonry, that one should pray for divine counsel and guidance before starting an important undertaking. But that does not make Masonry a “religion.” Sometimes people confuse Masonry with a religion because we call some Masonic buildings “temples.” But we use the word in the same sense that Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes called the Supreme Court a “Temple of Justice” and because a Masonic lodge is a symbol of the Temple of Solomon. Neither Masonry nor the Supreme Court is a religion just because its members meet in a “temple.” In some ways, the relationship between Masonry and religion is like the relationship between the Parent-Teacher Association (the P.T.A.) and education. Members of the P.T.A. believe in the importance of education. They support it. They assert that no man or woman can be a complete and whole individual or live up to his or her full potential without education. They encourage students to stay in school and parents to be involved with the education of their children. They may give scholarships. They encourage their members to get involved with and support their individual schools. But there are some things P.T.A.s do not do. They don’t teach. They don’t tell people which school to attend. They don’t try to tell people what they should study or what their major should be. In much the same way, Masons believe in the importance of religion. Masonry encourages every Mason to be active in the religion and church of his own choice. Masonry teaches that, without religion, a man is alone and lost, and that without religion, he can never reach his full potential. But Freemasonry does not tell a person which religion he should practice or how he should practice it. That is between the individual and God. That is the function of his house of worship, not his fraternity. And Masonry is a fraternity, not a religion. What is a Masonic Bible? Bibles are popular gifts among Masons, frequently given to a man when he joins the lodge or at other special events. A Masonic Bible is the same book anyone thinks of as a Bible (it’s usually the King James translation) with a special page in the front on which to write the name of the person who is receiving it and the occasion on which it is given. Sometimes there is a special index or information section which shows the person where in the Bible to find the passages which are quoted in the Masonic ritual. If Masonry isn’t a religion, why does it use ritual? Many of us may think of religion when we think of ritual, but ritual is used in every aspect of life. It’s so much a part of us that we just don’t notice it. Ritual simply means that some things are done more or less the same way each time. Almost all school assemblies, for example, start with the principal or some other official calling for the attention of the group. Then the group is led in the Pledge of Allegiance. A school choir or the entire group may sing the school song. That’s a ritual. Almost all business meetings of every sort call the group to order, have a reading of the minutes of the last meeting, deal with old business, then with new business. That’s a ritual. Most groups use Robert’s Rules of Order to conduct a meeting. That’s probably the best-known book of ritual in the world. There are social rituals which tell us how to meet people (we shake hands), how to join a conversation (we wait for a pause, and then speak), how to buy tickets to a concert (we wait in line and don’t push in ahead of those who were there first). There are literally hundreds of examples, and they are all rituals. Masonry uses a ritual because it’s an effective way to teach important ideas — the values we’ve talked about earlier. And it reminds us where we are, just as the ritual of a business meeting reminds people where they are and what they are supposed to be doing. Masonry’s ritual is very rich because it is so old. It has developed over centuries to contain some beautiful language and ideas expressed in symbols. But there’s nothing unusual in using ritual. All of us do it every day. Why does Masonry use symbols? Everyone uses symbols every day, just as we do ritual. We use them because they communicate quickly. When you see a stop sign , you know what it means, even if you can’t read the word “stop.” The circle and line mean “don’t” or “not allowed.” In fact, using symbols is probably the oldest way of communication and the oldest way of teaching. Masonry uses symbols for the same reason. Some form of the “Square and Compasses” is the most widely used and known symbol of Masonry. In one way, this symbol is a kind of trademark for the fraternity, as the “golden arches” are for McDonald’s. When you see the Square and Compasses on a building, you know that Masons meet there. And like all symbols, they have a meaning. The Square symbolizes things of the earth, and it also symbolizes honor, integrity, truthfulness, and the other ways we should relate to this world and the people in it. The Compasses symbolize things of the spirit, and the importance of a well-developed spiritual life, and also the importance of self-control — of keeping ourselves within bounds. The G stands for Geometry, the science which the ancients believed most revealed the glory of God and His works in the heavens, and it also stands for God, Who must be at the center of all our thoughts and of all our efforts. The meanings of most of the other Masonic symbols are obvious. The gavel teaches the importance of self-control and self-discipline. The hourglass teaches us that time is always passing, and we should not put off important decisions. So, is Masonry education? Yes. In a very real sense, education is at the center of Masonry. We have stressed its importance for a very long time. Back in the Middle Ages, schools were held in the lodges of stonemasons. You have to know a lot to build a cathedral — geometry, and structural engineering, and mathematics, just for a start. And that education was not very widely available. All the formal schools and colleges trained people for careers in the church, or in law or medicine. And you had to be a member of the social upper classes to go to those schools. Stonemasons did not come from the aristocracy. And so the lodges had to teach the necessary skills and information. Freemasonry’s dedication to education started there. It has continued. Masons started some of the first public schools in both Europe and America. We supported legislation to make education universal. In the 1800s Masons as a group lobbied for the establishment of state supported education and federal land grant colleges. Today we give millions of dollars in scholarships each year. We encourage our members to give volunteer time to their local schools, buy classroom supplies for teachers, help with literacy programs, and do everything they can to help assure that each person, adult or child, has the best educational opportunities possible. And Masonry supports continuing education and intellectual growth for its members, insisting that learning more about many things is important for anyone who wants to keep mentally alert and young. What does Masonry teach? Masonry teaches some important principles. There’s nothing very surprising in the list. Masonry teaches that: Since God is the Creator, all men and women are the children of God. Because of that, all men and women are brothers and sisters, entitled to dignity, respect for their opinions, and consideration of their feelings. Each person must take responsibility for his/her own life and actions. Neither wealth nor poverty, education nor ignorance, health nor sickness excuses any person from doing the best he or she can do or being the best person possible under the circumstances. No one has the right to tell another person what he or she must think or believe. Each man and woman has an absolute right to intellectual, spiritual, economic, and political freedom. This is a right given by God, not by man. All tyranny, in every form, is illegitimate. Each person must learn and practice self-control. Each person must make sure his spiritual nature triumphs over his animal nature. Another way to say the same thing is that even when we are tempted to anger, we must not be violent. Even when we are tempted to selfishness, we must be charitable. Even when we want to “write someone off,” we must remember that he or she is a human and entitled to our respect. Even when we want to give up, we must go on. Even when we are hated, we must return love, or, at a minimum, we must not hate back. It isn’t easy! Faith must be in the center of our lives. We find that faith in our houses of worship, not in Freemasonry, but Masonry constantly teaches that a person’s faith, whatever it may be, is central to a good life. Each person has a responsibly to be a good citizen, obeying the law. That doesn’t mean we can’t try to change things, but change must take place in legal ways. It is important to work to make this world better for all who live in it. Masonry teaches the importance of doing good, not because it assures a person’s entrance into heaven — that’s a question for a religion, not a fraternity — but because we have a duty to all other men and women to make their lives as fulfilling as they can be. Honor and integrity are essential to life. Life, without honor and integrity, is without meaning. What are the requirements for membership? The person who wants to join Masonry must be a man (it’s a fraternity), sound in body and mind, who believes in God, is at least the minimum age required by Masonry in his state, and has a good reputation. (Incidentally, the “sound in body” requirement — which comes from the stonemasons of the Middle Ages — doesn’t mean that a physically challenged man cannot be a Mason; many are). Those are the only “formal” requirements. But there are others, not so formal. He should believe in helping others. He should believe there is more to life than pleasure and money. He should be willing to respect the opinions of others. And he should want to grow and develop as a human being. How does a man become a Mason? Some men are surprised that no one has ever asked them to become a Mason. They may even feel that the Masons in their town don’t think they are “good enough” to join. But it doesn’t work that way. For hundreds of years, Masons have been forbidden to ask others to join the fraternity. We can talk to friends about Masonry, we can tell them about what Masonry does. We can tell them why we enjoy it. But we can’t ask, much less pressure anyone to join. There’s a good reason for that. It isn’t that we’re trying to be exclusive. But becoming a Mason is a very serious thing. Joining Masonry is making a permanent life commitment to live in certain ways. We’ve listed most of them above — to live with honor and integrity, to be willing to share and care about others, to trust each other, and to place ultimate trust in God. No one should be “talked into” making such a decision. So, when a man decides he wants to be a Mason, he asks a Mason for a petition or application. He fills it out and gives it to the Mason, and that Mason takes it to the local lodge. The Master of the lodge will appoint a committee to visit with the man and his family, find out a little about him and why he wants to be a Mason, tell him and his family about Masonry, and answer their questions. The committee reports to the lodge, and the lodge votes on the petition. If the vote is affirmative — and it usually is — the lodge will contact the man to set the date for the Entered Apprentice Degree. When the person has completed all three degrees, he is a Master Mason and a full member of the fraternity. So, what’s a Mason? A Mason is a man who has decided that he likes to feel good about himself and others. He cares about the future as well as the past, and does what he can, both alone and with others, to make the future good for everyone. Many men over many generations have answered the question, “What is a Mason?” One of the most eloquent was written by the Reverend Joseph Fort Newton, an internationally honored minister of the first half of the 20th Century. When is a man a Mason? When he can look out over the rivers, the hills, and the far horizon with a profound sense of his own littleness in the vast scheme of things, and yet have faith, hope, and courage which is the root of every virtue. When he knows that down in his heart every man is as noble, as vile, as divine, as diabolic, and as lonely as himself, and seeks to know, to forgive, and to love his fellow man. When he knows how to sympathize with men in their sorrows, yea, even in their sins knowing that each man fights a hard fight against many odds. When he has learned how to make friends and to keep them, and above all how to keep friends with himself When he loves flowers, can hunt birds without a gun, and feels the thrill of an old forgotten joy when he hears the laugh of a little child. When he can be happy and high-minded amid the meaner drudgeries of life. When star-crowned trees and the glint of sunlight on flowing waters, subdue him like the thought of one much loved and long dead. When no voice of distress reaches his ears in vain, and no hand seeks his aid without response. When he finds good in every faith that helps any man to lay hold of divine things and sees majestic meanings in life, whatever the name of that faith may be. When he can look into a wayside puddle and see something beyond mud, and into the face of the most forlorn fellow mortal and see something beyond sin. When he knows how to pray, how to love, how to hope. When he has kept faith with himself with his fellow man, and with his God; in his hand a sword for evil, in his heart a bit of a song — glad to live, but not afraid to die! Such a man has found the only real secret of Masonry, and the one which it is trying to give to all the world. There is a booklet by the same name produced by The Masonic Information Center, a division of the Masonic Service association. Its numerous illustrations have not been included as it would considerably delay file loading. To obtain illustrated copies @ $0.25 each (PPD); 40% discount in lots of 50 or more copies, plus shipping/handling, contact: Masonic Service Center 8120 Fenton Street Silver Spring, MD 20910-4785 Tel (301) 588-4010 ; Fax (301) 608-3457 Masonic Resources in New York •Brotherhood Fund •Camp Turk •DeMolay •DeWint House •Empire State Mason •Genealogy Requests •Livingston Library •Masonic Care Community •Masonic Medical Research Laboratory •MORI •MUNY(MOODLE) •New York Masonic Safety Identification Program (ChildID) •Surviving Spouses Committee •Youth Committee •ChildID Event Calendar •Atholl1781 Yahoo Group Mail List •Lodge Locator ..I Love You, All, xo! --------------------(-------@
  • TigerLilly
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    gonzo
    RAW was at DragonCon (fantasy game con) w/ Timothy Leary, in musta been 92. They were great, and was at a small group panel discussion with them. Same con where I bounced off Shatner's belly in 09 :D Back to discussing religion.
  • marye
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    dang...
    I just saw the part about Hunter being on tour... too bad. It was nice to believe it for a minute.
  • Anonymous (not verified)
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    Yes, would somebody stand up from the inner circle...
    ...say perhaps Blair Jackson, and give Ray-Ray a definitive assertion from the inner circle regarding these matters? My comments hardly represent 'the truth" in this matter.
  • Anonymous (not verified)
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    Hey Lilly
    I've heard Robert Anton Wilson speak and it's cool for me to say "The Grateful Dead pulled my cosmic trigger!
  • TigerLilly
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    gonzo
    also ran into your very long post in a forum -exact same text, while I was googling around, and yeah, whoever wrote it is a moron. starting with that while masons have pagan-based rituals involved, and also symbols, they are not satanists. And let's talk about satanism itself for a second. Originally Lucifer was a fallen angel, ach nevermind. Would have to get very long and deep to explain what is on my mind, and think am not up for it. but I will say put a bit of research into Satanism Ray Ray, cuz not all "satanists" are evil.
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In one of the other topics, one of the folks seemed not to be so sure of the reception he'd get for saying he was a youth minister at his church. In my experience, Deadheads span the full spectrum from Agnostic to Zoroastrian. I've met atheist Deadheads, Muslim Deadheads, Buddhist Deadheads, Catholic Deadheads, Jewish Deadheads, and Wiccan Deadheads. My Deadhead friends are all over the map on this stuff, and as far as I'm concerned one of the real richnesses of the scene is the ability to see how things look to other folks and, sometimes, experience it from their world. Believe it if you need it, if you don't, just pass it on. But talk about it here, and please maintain a safe respectful place to do so.
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here we are again on a Sunday night-anyone playing any music? Sunday night with the GD was a religious experience...........it's been interesting reading what yall have said in the previous week. Gotta get some zzzzzzzz's-we're hitting the road soon.......love ya, Gypsy Cowgirl
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I vividly remember one really ( i don't know how to term it (religious?) intense experience I had at the Greek Theatre when the Dead were playing Queen Jane (7/15/88). It was my first Greek show. But, anyway, I always thought that the band was just relaying a message from a higher power, and it's not like they knew it either. It just happened naturally. Right down to Hunter's lyrics...(and Barlow's). The Grateful Dead to me is bigger than the sum of its parts. Their job was to spread some sort of message that is UNIVERSAL. Perhaps that's' why they lasted much longer than their contemporaries? At the same time they were still never quite like any other musical ensemble. When I read Weir's quote about "Misfit Power," I often wonder, was all this chosen ahead of time? Are we puppets and everything is already planned out? I have a million questions and thoughts, but not too many opinions on it. I do know that no other band gave me that feeling that there was a higher power somewhere nearby. One of spirituality, one of more than just a band. Then you've got the name! That in itself is a great topic of discussion, and what the reverse of it means. Don't get me started. If you know me already, It will take you 10 minutes to read what I write. So, for now...... On a side note. I listen to a lot of other music too, and reading Tiger Lily's quote about Jesus, Buddha, makes me think of the band XTC, and one of their songs, "Merely a Man." I believe they had the right idea. Religion is uch a broad topic, when we're all, after all, only human. Here are the lyrics, it's a great song, and an awesome album (Oranges & Lemons..1989). Higher! I'm a king, yes, I'm a head of state. But I'm the kitchen boy who'll wash your dirty plate. I had no message and the message was, we're all Jesus, Buddha, and the Wizard of Oz! I'm merely a man and I bring nothing but love for you. I'm merely a man and I want nothing that you can't do! And you know it's true. That with logic and love we'll be lifting humanity higher! Higher! I'm all religious figures rolled into one, Gaddafy Duck propelled from Jimmy Swaggart's tommy gun. Don't promise rainbows with some golden pot, In fact what I can offer I know you've already got! I'm merely a man and I bring nothing but love for you. I'm merely a man and I want nothing that you can't do? And you know it's true. That with logic and love we'll have power enough to raise consciousness up and for lifting humanity higher! Higher! And you know it's true. We should chase superstition and fear from our hearts if we're going to survive and take levels of sanity higher! Kick it up... Higher! I'm merely a man and I bring nothing but love for you. I'm merely a man and I want nothing that you can't do! And you know it's true. That with logic and love we'll have power enough to raise consciousness up and for lifting humanity higher ~Tom ( "takes the dark out of the nighttime, paints the daytime black")
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Was not my quote, was BobbaLee's-but liked it very much!!! Am gonna have to dig out my old XTC tapes again (yes are that old) as those lyrics you wrote are lovely!********************************** Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone, you will still exist, but you have ceased to live. Samuel Clemens
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Search these words on the internet or Wikipedia:Gnostic, Essenes and Nazarene (sect) for more information on the historical nature of Christianity and Jesus. Religion: I'd say I was Gnostic but I reject dualism as a mirage caused by undeveloped senses, including a sense of "time" which makes up part of what is known as "the human condition". The most important conflict in early Christianity was both the notion that Jesus was divine and that God was a perfect being. I find those aspects of debate worth digging into with both hands, considering how much western religion relies on those notions. I can't say that I believe anything "is" or "isn't" because if you observe anything long enough, both seem possible... sometimes. Essentially, I think that all organized religion is now defunct in function, except for the literary and artistic value (which have HUGE importance to teaching children the fundamentals of EVERYTHING) due to advances in "science" (the cultivation of undeveloped "senses"), which is really not any different than religion, ultimately. Both observe the universe and "reality" in at least 3 dimensions, then try to draw conclusions about the nature of life, including the purpose, which imposes implications regarding a hidden "creator" (beginning) and it's nature in relation to our own happiness/sadness/pain/pleasure/reward/punishment/hate/love and most importantly our mortality (ending). I won't dive into behavior modification, at this time for sake of some brevity. Higgs Field: In October of this year, I believe scientists will prove what I myself have seen with my own "eyes" under the influence of psychedelic drugs... The Higgs Field. The evaporating remnants of the Higgs boson, aka "The God Particle" (when it is finally viewed) will explain much of what Nikola Tesla referred to as "The Unified Field Theory", which he claimed to have solved before his "death" (Einstein called it "The Theory of Everything" which was his life's biggest failure). The implications of this simple and tiny data will be so overwhelming, we may not grasp the basic meaning in our lifetime, which is tragic imo, in part because of superstitious notions guarded by organized religion and used to control this realm and reality to it's own purpose (see also, "Galileo Galilei"). That said, my idea is that the BEH Mechanism in place that makes up our universe will continue to recycle consciousness itself until the true nature of life is revealed, without regard to "time". In summary, we will "see" with the Higgs boson, that our reality is merely a facsimile of another reality, that which has come to be known as "Heaven". "Hell" is simply the absence of the knowledge of that reality. Just my opinion, of course. "The need for mystery is greater than the need for an answer." - Ken Kesey
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Mr. Scientific, shouldn't be suprised that such a post came from you ;-) but your Higgs Field explanation (which I have never heard of, so again thanks again for bringing it up) comes the closest to being an explanation of what have thought about spirituality. Will have to read more about it. Again is more "scientific" explanation than had ever come up with, any time I had tried to explain what I felt was just that-instinct, thoughts and feelings. Am still not sure whether is the same thing as what bugs me about religion, putting names, and explanations on forces that are bigger than we are, and also personally not necessary to "understand" but just go with em-GO WITH THE FLOW, BUT am absolutely definately gonna have to look for more to read about Higgs Field theory. This thread is developing in such a fascinating way. Incredible! Look forward to every new post here! ********************************** Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone, you will still exist, but you have ceased to live. Samuel Clemens
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Hey Tiger Lilly-I like your posts-"go with the flow" definitely. As far as the religion thing, I just don't like labels, so if I have to label myself just "Human", so be it..........will be traveling next Sunday, so thought I'd post something now......maybe I'll go pray naked now (my ex used to tell the Jehvah's Witnesses that when they came to our door-needless to say, they'd never come back) This was when we lived way up on a mountain top in Humboldt Co. 1973-1974.....Amazing Grace........"& I bid you goodnight, goodnight, goodnight"............love yall, Gypsy Cowgirlps-the 1 time my adult son told me that I had left "a hole in his religious upbringing" Just about floored me to which I replied "WELL, excuuuse me for not having religion shoved down your throat, like your grandpa did- You're free to go out & find your own" He still doesn't go to church- I'll have to tell him about the Higgs Field, though........Happy Trails.......
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Oops- Type "O" meant Jehovah's........ok, onward to naked praying......Happy Trails, GC
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What an interesting idea W.W.! Surely would be closer to our natural state, eh? Perhaps should try it. Or perhaps I shouldn't have responded, before this discussion gets WAAAY out of hand after had been going so well-couldn't resist though ;-)********************************** Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone, you will still exist, but you have ceased to live. Samuel Clemens
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1) I'm going to take up naked praying... if that doesn't summon a response from God, nothing will. Perhaps someone could begin building an "Ark" now?2) In my last post, the word "enlightenment" can be interchanged with "knowledge"; 3) Christianity (Catholic) is my personal starting point (spiritually) and many, many folks associated with that religion fed my mind with vast information, both religious and scientific, so my remarks about religion being defunct was not a total dismissal of the value it had in my personal life. I'm not anti religion in total but I don't like the direction I see being taken, personally, at this time; 4) Thanks for reading my post, TL & WW! We live in VERY EXCITING "times", indeed. Cazart! "The need for mystery is greater than the need for an answer." - Ken Kesey
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I'm not one of those folks who thinks the world was created a few thousand years ago. I think a God who has the patience to wait a few billion years for us, love's us a lot more than one who had to do it in six days. Thank you Lord.
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really nice thoughts on this page. my view on reality is very mathematical. Any thing that ever reaches zero always was zero, with no real existence. And anything that is always present, no gaps, I call that real. And as i searched about and saw in 100 years, all that is termed mortal about me will be no more operational.So I looked for what i still had when all that could be lost was gone. And I found, thought. Thought. Still there. You could say eternally. And then, like a supernova, I saw reality, Intelligence itself. And our selves as expressions of this, in the nature of idea only, no mortal anything. This intelligence, i call God, and intelligence naturally expresses itself as idea, which is how i see us. Individual expressions of a perfect mind. When I realized all this it was just a different perspective than I had had before, but it had a dramatic effect on my day to day life. I mean, positive.Cause I see us all as perfect ideas now, free of all the mortal concern, which one day will swirl and rise and go puff, zip, into zero-ness. Proving it was never here at all. It just blocked us for a time from seeing us we always are, , a free idea I don't think this viewpoint is new at all, bit it sure brought lots o' light into my life! andy
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OY! TL & GDTUD-didn't mean to get anything out of hand here! For your info, my ex, (who has been gone to the "great hunting grounds" 30 years this year) & would tell the Jehovah's Witnesses about his naked praying was raised Catholic. (although he was half Native American) He was the ultimate DH back then... Loved 'em til the day he died......& NOW we have "happy trails" to talk to also-love what he or she says.........once again....."& I bid you goodnight, goodnight, goodnight" Spiritual song or religious? "Did it matter, does it now?" St Stephen-could be another spiritual or religious song I guess-taught it to my kids when they were very young.....I'll have to tell my oldest son about his father's naked praying, though-think it's slipped my mind......
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Swiming naked in a mountain lake is my kind of praying and Dark Star is my kind of hymn, Zippy is my kind of preacher and nature is my father and mother and the holy spirit is art and the son is the peace and love that comes through this and happy trails are grate but sometimes there are rattlesnakes on them and then you may just bump into a friend there that you haven't seen in a long time because you both love the same wilderness. If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is, infinite. William Blake
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Alright! Hal R-sounds good to me-I also liked "Mr. Natural" created by Robert Crumb, the cartoonist.......Sounds very Native American, which their ancestral religion has always been interesting to me & made way more sense than any other organized religion. Besides which being the best envionmentalist........."gotta go now".....ps-The Ice Cream Kid-one of my all time faves! Gypsy Cowgirl
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The intelligence to me is not God. If there was a God that created life on earth, who created God? Reality is not nothing, but rather, another thought or an idea. It just takes a pair of open eyes and an open heart to see this reality, and you portrayed that very well. Everything is interconnected and if we have an open mind and an open heart we are allowing ourselves to have a religious experience no matter where we are. Religion is just a belief, and this belief, in my opinion, is centered around the ideas that we have and the emotion that embraces a moment in time when we feel invincible. ~littlebri
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we are allowing oursevles to have a religious experience no matter where we are". I am soooo digging that, littlebri. Your who created God question is reminding me of the chicken and the egg question quite alot. You have said in a few short sentences, a very concise summing up of vague thought have had inside for years. And agree with you that intelligence is less "God" and perhaps even quite the opposite of what you said about religion being when we feel invincible (brilliantly said, btw). Kinda suspect that the word God is a belief for when we do NOT feel invincible, but kinda small and helpless. But have to think about it more, again just a first thing in the morning-brain half awake gut-inspired response. ********************************** Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone, you will still exist, but you have ceased to live. Samuel Clemens
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I've been reading the Gospels for 15 years and I'm quite comfortable with whatever there is within the 4 accepted ones. If they all said exactly the same thing I would "not" believe them. The teachings of Jesus are close enough considering how long they were written after he died for us. The real discrepancies only occur when the gnostic gospels come into the picture. So don't tell me I need to accept whatever bullshit comes along just because it had Jesus name in it. Love ya.
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You might not believe in GodBut that makes you the one that's odd It's not uncommon, in your youth To search for answers and for Truth My friend before you were born We'd been to Dead shows, had hearts torn And we've all searched to find a way To try and make it, one more day Unless you die early, you'll find pain That turns the sunshine all to rain Will you deny, or will you pray When death comes and takes it all away So if you ever can believe There's more to life than we can see I hope you'll get down on your knees And thank the one who sets you free
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around the valley of the scum here, say" Imagine No Religion"!............ seems i've heard that before somewhere! but hey, can't we all just get along? oh yeah, thats what religion is about........... isn't it? peace4all, imagine!
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hey, little bri, thanks for your thoughtful comments on my post. It always gives us a chance to be more clear, when someone actually listens to us and engages our thought. You said: [ The intelligence to me is not God. If there was a God that created life on earth, who created God? ] Yeah. Maybe I can be more clear. To me God is just the word "good" in German. It's just another word like, spirit or mind, to refer to reality. I reject all other meanings for myself. So, i could of said, "that intelligence, i call it 'good', And noone else has to agree with me, that's just what i call it. And for me, Intelligence or "good", definitely didn't create life on earth, cause that would mean he/she created something finite and mortal, and that would just wreck everything. For me, God didn't make us as mortals, he/she made us as immortals. It's us who agree to see ourselves as mortals, which i definitely don't recommend. So, for me, there is just one Truth, with lots of words to refer to it, the most charged being God. But it's just a word that means good, to indicate that this intelligence is 100% good. So, then, what do we do with all this sense information indicating otherwise. I treat all that as delusion, hallucination. To me, any sense that Life (eternal, infinite, immortal) could be in ,or inhabit a body (mortal, finite), is impossible. But liitle bri, i don't mean you or anyone else has to agree with me. i love where you're at in your thought, and how you listened and responded. In my thought, the light is ALWAYS shining, and God will never be on my side or anyone's side, we have to be on God's side, or on the side of good. with all respect for your views- andy
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Nobody asked you to accept anything. You are welcome to believe and accept what you chose to, that has been the main gist of this thread so far lately. We are just discussing here. BUT calling other peoples' thoughts and writings "bullshit" because they are different, is uncool. The Gnostic Gospels exist, and actually pre-date what are now accepted by the church as the "true" gospels. Could argue that the 4 gospels coincide due to collaboration, and time going by before they were written. Just because something is widely "accepted" does not necessarily make it true. Am sure that you accept that the world is round, which was thought to be "bullshit" at one point in time. And am not arguing with you here because I necessarily believe in the Gnostic or ANY gospels, for that matter, but because you used to word "bullshit" about the collection. Is one of the dangers of religion that bugs me-aggressive reactions to thoughts, ideas and writings that are not widely-accepted ********************************** Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone, you will still exist, but you have ceased to live. Samuel Clemens
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couldn't have said it better, myself. "The need for mystery is greater than the need for an answer." - Ken Kesey
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well said and accepted TigerLilly , if we all think the way you do we ´´ll be living in much more peace and secure , RESPECT my dear .............................................................AS LONG AS YOU ARE STANDING STRONG NOTHING IS GONNA BE WRONG
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I think this would be a great website if this forum were not even here. I think a lot of people have strong convictions about their beliefs and feelings are bound to get hurt. And then they may say things they sometimes regret. Sorry about the b.s. comment Tiger Lily. Little Bri, I was thinking that may try to get us riled up. You are obviously a smart young woman I hope all your dreams come true. I think I better take a vacation. Best wishes to all of you.
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Oh Yeh-TC-John Lennon said it the best, didn't he???? & here we are again on a Sunday night..........How'd the naked praying go this week=Tiger Lily & GDTUD? anyone get closer to God? guess we'll all find out someday.......Gypsy Cowgirlpeace & love
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Please don't take a vacation. A very cool and kind thing to do-what you just wrote. Apology accepted, and one for you as well. Was pissed because we had done so well lately with reading and discussing in an open and accepting way. Was not angry about your views, but the word you chose. Please understand that.Let the music play, wash the bad vibe away. and I hope you decide to stay here with us. Peace! ********************************** Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone, you will still exist, but you have ceased to live.. Samuel Clemens
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if you believe in your god and your god gave you all your senses and feeling and the POWER of thought then don't vaca because of the posts in this forum. if feeling weren't suppose to get hurt god wouldn't have given them to you and everyones opinion is most welcome to hear, we all must be kind to each other and accept other as we would have them accept ourselves. i kinda see the bible and the gospels as songs... you got to read between the lines ... it's just a way!! and there are many ways... hey would you like some of my purple berries : )peace2Ulove 4all
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Yeah, happy trails, we need rowers not bailers! The best part of my faith of origin is the concept of Grace, nothing compares, as far as I've seen in mystical belief systems. I'm certainly a walking, breathing example of the concept. May you all bask in the warmth and love of It's Light. "The need for mystery is greater than the need for an answer." - Ken Kesey
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Even if you have never heard of the Urantia Book, you are already familiar with some of its content and ideas since Jerry was kind enough to include a little something in almost every song. He was a student of the book after being introduced to it by Martin Fierro. Do not worry that it is a cult, religion, or money making scheme: it is only a book. It has information you never knew and is written so as to leave no doubt that it is and was beyond human capabilities to author. If you go to urantia.org you can get an overview from the Urantia Foundation who originally published the book in 1955. They are a bunch of old fogies, though, and not too progressive. There are a few cult-like followings of the book, but you know better than that. It's a book written for the individual to read and apply, or live, as each individual sees fit. Have fun, because once you start with it, you'll never set it down. You'll also come to a new understanding of certain lyrics, such as, "I will survive." In friendship, The Doctor
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I got this document from a deadhead sister years ago. It weaves the Bible in with Grateful Dead, Garcia, Hunter, Weir, and Barlow lyrics. I thought it was pretty cool so I posted it on my website if you wanna check it out. Here's the link: http://greateststoryevertold.org/grateful_dead.html Blessings, Ben Jesus Loves You The Best! greateststoryevertold.org
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how are you 2 & are praying naked this Sunday night????? love ya, Gypsy Cowgirl
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Gypsy Cowgirl, your "Naked Praying" is working better than anything I've ever tried before! I do it everyday, now. "The task is, not so much to see what no one has yet seen; but to think what nobody has yet thought, about that which everybody sees. ." - Erwin Schrödinger
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You can write us an essay about how Naked Praying has changed your life GRTUD. Will make an attempt to do the same. Hey Rider, what do you think about adding Naked Prayer to our DOWN WITH SHOES campaign? DOWN WITH SHOES and UP WITH PRAYING NAKED. Haven't mananaged yet to be as pious about it as GRTUD, but do shoot for once or twice a week. ********************************** Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone, you will still exist, but you have ceased to live. Samuel Clemens
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Amen TL & GRTUD! glad it's helping......I'll have to tell my son (soon to be 38) what his father started from beyond the grave.......I think he really did pray naked way back when (prior to 1974).....maybe advanced in his thinking? xoxoxo Gypsy Cowgirl
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dunno 'bout prayin' nekkid, i 'spose most people that believe in prayer do so when they feel the need, some people pray on a regular basis, some folks attend services everyday.i have been going to mass every weekday morning since i was laid off over a year ago and i kno it keeps me from getting scared. they say " the lord will provide", they say " ya gotta have faith" and that's what i've been trying ta do. somehow every month i have been able to get together enough money to make it thru to the next. it's been hard on my kid....he doesnt say much about it 'cuz he knows how stressed out i am, but i can see the affect it has on him, tho he tries not to show it. being a teenager he just lashes out. i keep lookin' and lookin' and filling out applications and requesting interviews and no luck. this week the depression has been so bad that i don't even feel like i belong HERE and this has been my OTHER escape, just like the shows used to be. my favorite sticker said somethin' like " a break from whoever you are", like i could be around other deadheads and feel welcome and not have to worry about the outside "normal" real world, but now we are so divided over this damn election and the fundraising show that i cant even feel comfortable in the forums, tho i kno it's probably just my perception (or not). friends in the chat room tell me it's ok, they like me, i'm welcome as everyone is, but i FEEL like i'm INTRUDING each time i log in. i havent even listened to any music in months cuz it just makes me cry so my other option has been prayer and church. i go in the door scared and come back out reminding my self that "i gotta have faith" and it seems to have worked....like the dead used to do for me. i am deeply sorry if this particular forum is the wrong place for me to whine and i hope this won't offend anyone here....you have all been WONDERFUL and HELPFUL and KIND and THOUGHTFUL. and meebe thats the other thing that faith brings me ...hoping that i can still come here and.....forget....if only for a few minutes........thanx for listening....think i'll have a couple beers and some " medication (haha)" and and thro in a boot and see if it'll work...mebbe try to chat.....thank you all for putting up with a foolish old sailor.
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wow, johnman, i was on my way out the doorwhen i read your post, and just had to log in and say, DUDE! whats up! I judge people by their hearts, and by my assessment, you doin' fine! Who's out there judging you by any other yardstick? sheee-it. who cares anyway? If your heart is right, everything else is fixable. got your sense of humor? don' t lose that, right? i think you're in the right place here, just my 2 c's. You gotta start with what you can do today. Do that, and don't beat yourself up. Tomorrow, do what you can do tomorrow. You're giving off so much light, dude, don't feel selfish to let some shine on you. love you like a brother, johnman-----andy ps - not feeling like you belong turns out to be a GOOD thing, dude.
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don't know exactly what to say, as am in a very bad way myself right this second. But have valued our friendship in the chatroom very very much, and your post makes me sadder. Your persistance about work WILL pay off, and you belong wherever you wanna be. Am glad you still have your faith in your church, and that constructive source of strength-I just hope you can get your faith back that some of us here care alot about you.********************************** Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone, you will still exist, but you have ceased to live. Samuel Clemens
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Hey Johnman, I prayed for you this morning, that our God of all Peace would comfort you and open your eyes and heart to how much He loves you. You are on the right track seeking Him. Check out these words of Jesus in the book of Matthew chapter 6! 25 "So I tell you, don't worry about everyday life-whether you have enough food, drink, and clothes. Doesn't life consist of more than food and clothing? 26 Look at the birds. They don't need to plant or harvest or put food in barns because your heavenly Father feeds them. And you are far more valuable to him than they are. 27 Can all your worries add a single moment to your life? Of course not. 28 "And why worry about your clothes? Look at the lilies and how they grow. They don't work or make their clothing, 29 yet Solomon in all his glory was not dressed as beautifully as they are. 30 And if God cares so wonderfully for flowers that are here today and gone tomorrow, won't he more surely care for you? You have so little faith! 31 "So don't worry about having enough food or drink or clothing. 32 Why be like the pagans who are so deeply concerned about these things? Your heavenly Father already knows all your needs, 33 and he will give you all you need from day to day if you live for him and make the Kingdom of God your primary concern. 34 "So don't worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will bring its own worries. Today's trouble is enough for today. Blessings, Ben Jesus Loves You The Best! greateststoryevertold.org
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thank you free, tiger, and ben for your kind inputs. its only myself that i'm having trouble with. i have faith that things will work out, just get scared sometimes as i said every month things seem to fall in to place as soon as i leave it in the lord's hands...ya kno...ya cant do what ya cant do.............they say god never gives ya more than you can handle..........sometimes i wish he didnt trust me so much.....................thanx!!
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Johnman-you're not whining, just telling us your feelings, your heart & soul. Nothing wrong with that. Maybe you can get veteran benefits to help out in the meantime? Saw Ruby, but the music was too loud to tell her you wished her well. I'll try & pass on a message to her. Phil ended his show tonight with an amazing " & I bid you goodnight, goodnight, goodnight".....very gospel.......everyone loved it......Sunday night again. Back to naked praying-it's getting to be a tradition around this household. Even my next door neighbor liked the idea ......xoxox Gypsy Cowgirl
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"And now, people.....and now, people...when I woke up this morning, I heard a disturbing sound. I said, when I woke up this morning I heard a disturbing sound. I heard the sound in my car. What I heard was the jingle-jangle of a thousand lost souls. And I'm talking about the soul of mortal men and women, departed from this life. Wait a minute, those lost, anguished souls roamin' unseen over the earth, seekin' the divine light, they'll not find. Because it's too late... too late yeah, too late for them to ever see again, the light they once chose not to follow! Alright, alright, don't be lost when the time comes. For the day of the Lord cometh, as a thief in the night. Amen. DO YOU SEE THE LIGHT?" -- The Reverend Cleophus James love and peace.
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thanx gypsy! really appreciate your thoughtful words of encouragement! cc thanx for bringing a smile to my face, that's one of the best scenes in the film!
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& I say AMEN! Good going CC-you always find the best!!! God rest his soul ..... xoxo Gypsy Cowgirl
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First of all thanks for letting us know how you are feeling..not an easy thing to do. Communicating in this online world is pretty weird and I think we are all slowly getting used to it. Larking around in the chatroom or sounding off on the forums is easy enough, but dealing with personal and serious matters is much harder. If you are not in the same physical space there is so much you miss in terms of feedback, interaction, body language, tone of voice etc. Emoticons cannot deal with all that; and if you are feeling low at the time, an innocent word, a clumsy expression, a conversation you can’t break into or the lack of response to a comment or post can spin out into a feeling of alienation. You are not the only one who feels like sometimes that I assure you. Please don’t ever feel you don’t belong here. Over a year ago a guy calling himself Sixstringsmoreorlesh disappeared from here, but before he did and in the middle of a big online bust up over something he posted that ‘if you have to take it personally refuse to take it seriously; if you have to take it seriously refuse to take it personally’. I find that works pretty well in the online world (not so sure about life in general ..). Anyway I know this does not help with your immediate problems. I am not really the praying kind (clothed or naked),but I really feel for you and wish you only the best in your struggles. And please stick around Johnman; for fun and games, for serious stuff and to know that there’s many folks out here wishing you well.
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16 years 10 months
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friend badger,...... boy ...i make it sound like sumpin outa redwall.....anyway thanx for your concern...and again i'm feelin' it's not so much not feelin' i can belong here (hell this is home for all of "jerry's lost kids" ek ek ek!) i'm going thru a period where i feel i don't belong anywhere. circumstances have kind of overwhelmed me to the point where i've been pushing it all away and it just happened to bubble back out while i was here...............and now at the risk of sounding presumptous, i think my problems have taken enuf of this space so i feel i should ask everyone to just pm me if they wish and leave this space for more important concerns...i'm only johnman....just alittle piece of the bigger puzzle (and i may be the fat one that doesn't fit and got stuck in the wrong box, heehee, then again mebbe this is a big box of "misfits" so to speak) you all belong in the awards forum because of your kindness and caring!!
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17 years 4 months
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We are all misfits on this bus and that fits just right. If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is, infinite. William Blake
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16 years 10 months
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oh marye, ya snuck in while i was composing. this last post...............naw....i 'm not going anywhere........just stepping back and looking at myself to see wherein the problem lies.....so'i'll be inand out,,,,its cool, tho i think i can put part of the blame on the divisivness of this ...damn......election.