Grateful Dead

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...shall we go, you and I while we can... I'm that old,too!! do you know the process by which this happens? I mean what kind of analogue/digital converter there is in that machine and what kind of files it makes to load onto the disc? Just curious...

I don't know what kind of analogue/digital converter this unit uses, and the owner's manual doesn't go into that aspect. As for the recording files, the unit records actual audio files in the Red Book standard. In other words, the HHB 830 creates digital audio files that are the same as those on a manufactured CD. They are not wave, mp3, FLAC, shn or ape files.Some additional information for those who may be interested is that you can record from LPs and DAT sources. In addition to the RCA jacks, the unit has digital coaxial and optical inputs for recording from digital sources. It also has a built-in sampling rate converter, which allows it to automatically adjust to the digital source, from 32kHz to 48kHz. It will also allow you to copy 44.1kHz DTS and HDCD discs. I have copied some of my LPs to CD-R using this recorder, and some of them sound better than the commercial CD releases. It will accept all recordable CD formats (CD-R, CD-RW, and Audio CD-R), so you can use the same discs you use when burning via your computer.

I Use A Software Program That Captures Live Streams And Converts To MP3's. The Problem I Am Having Is The Music Cut's Off When Changing Tracks. As You Know Alot Of Song's Turn Into Other Song's IE:Cryptical>The Other One>Cryptical. I Get Silence When The Seperated Tracks Change. Is There Software To Clean It Up To Make A Contius Flow Like A Live Store Bought Album?

I've enjoyed reading this thread - thought I'd put in my two cents. In order to maintain the best sound quality with cassette to CD transfer it is really best to just use audio equpiment - forget about a computer.Don't get me wrong, I love computers and am very actively taking part in the "new" digital age of music sharing, but sometimes the old trusty gear is still the best way to go. Going directly from a tape deck into a standalone CD burner keeps the sound "pure." That is, no file conversions, downsampling, dithering, etc. that you may get when using a computer. I have no doubt that making tape to CD transfers can be accomplished successfully with a computer - it just gets complicated with all the software choices, file type choices, compression choices, etc. Using good ole audio equipment is just more straightforward and easier for this old school trader. I read that some of you are putting an EQ between your tape deck and standalone CD burner. I've often considered doing that myself, but have always chosen just to leave the cassette source unaltered, transfer it to CD, and then EQ it while I listen. I do, however do one thing a little differently than the other folks who have posted here. Rather than go directly from cassette to CD, I record to DAT first. Here's my setup: Nakamichi DR-3 cassette deck > Tascam DA-40 DAT deck > Sony CDR-W33 standalone CD burner There are two reasons why I make the analog to digital conversion via DAT rather than CD. 1)As mentioned in previous posts, when burning directly to CD, you have to push a button on the fly to insert track start ID's. You can't just burn the whole CD, then go back and add the start ID's later. Because DAT is a magnetic tape media, rather than optical, it is totally editable after the recording process. I just hit play on the Nak, record on the DAT, and let 'er go. Then, when the recording's done, I can go back later and write the start ID's exactly where I want them. Much easier to get the start ID's in just the right spot for things like Alligator > Caution > Feedback, than doing it on the fly. 2) The A/D converters in my Tascam DA-40 are superior to the ones in my Sony CDR-W33. The results I get with this setup are excellent. I use DAT to record vinyl to CD also with excellent results. That's more than enough of my rambling, for now - I just love talking about this stuff! On a side note . . . anyone still trading DAT's. If so, let me know . . .

...shall we go, you and I while we can... Hmmmm... so you don't think you're losing anything putting in that extra generation? cassette>DAT>stand alone burner must sound good to you and I respect that. I wonder how they would sound to me...anyway, whichever way your pleasure tends!

...shall we go, you and I while we can... You mean to say that with your important position moderating this technical discussion that your bosses won't just buy you one? Maybe you could deduct it if you bought it yourself as a job-related expense! (Yuck Yuck Yuck) I can imagine that conversation with the IRS....

Good question paisley - I should have explained my set up a litle better: Nak DR-3 (analog RCA out) > Tascam DA-40 (analog RCA in) Tascam DA-40 (digital coax out) > Sony CDR-W33 (digital coax in) There is indeed one generation added when going from the cassette to DAT - not any different than the generation added when going from cassette directly to CD. The copying from DAT to CD is a clone - digital-to-digital exact bit-for-bit duplication. Just like DAT > DAT or CD > CD as long as the digital in/outs are used. No generation added at all for direct digital copies. This, of course, is why I even own two DAT decks. I traded analog cassettes for years before making the DAT investment. Well worth it, though. Recordings that sound as good as the source every time, no matter how many copies of copies of copies your tape came from. Anyway, hope this explains the generation thing.

Right on big D, I agree with using the older equipment. They made some pretty good stuff back when. You young-uns should hear reel to reel sometime and listen to how good those were! I still have three single tape decks( not the double decks ) and I refuse to get rid of them because they work(ed) so well. I also don't think you lose that much when transferring tape to CD. With an EQ bewteen the two you can actually filter some hiss and aud noise out if its a bad recording. I do have a question for yamadog, what program allows you to grab livestreams off of a site?

...But this is what this place is for!! I go away for a couple days and come back to find a couple new pages on tape>CD copying. YEA! Im jazzed to see what you all are doing out here to combat moving into the 21st/22nd century etc.... Ive taken on a mentor somewhat and looked into the Torrent side of transfer (BitTorrent>FLACfrontend>Sonic CD Burner). Id say in the last week I have DLd 3-4 shows and have modem chuggin' along as I type. I am still glad to hear that there is intrest in the transfer of cassette to CD too! I will diffently look into those suggestions mentioned in the last pages and try a few things. I will eventually give my 1500 hours away after all is said and done so those who want to have a real nice and large tape collection will want to conatct me when it gets down to that... PeaceEric

So has anyone used the Sound Devices 722 or the Korg Mr 1000? If so what do you think? ~Make us SNAPPY!~

Does anyone rember what form was used with the so called fm frequencies that some folks picked up on. What I rember is that in some arenas one could tap into the frequency that was coming from the stage to the board. Essentially you could tap into that frequency and make a recording that way. You would pretty much get the music before it hit the soundboard and then it was sent out to the house speakers. Does anyone have any of those recordings or was that just a myth? Also in the later years they had a foot pedal they could hit and talk directly to the board without it going through th PA. It would be fun to hear some of those conversations!!!!!

...shall we go, you and I while we can... FM frequencies were used to accomplish the wireless transmission of the soundboard mix to speaker arrays as early as 1987, probably before. The way it worked was like this: Healy would select a low bandwidth frequency on the FM dial that was not being used by local radio. He would then send the board feed to that channel, with equipment just like a radio station would broadcast a signal. Speaker arrays would function like radio receivers and pick up the signal and send it out to the hall, or remote locations (you may remember that at places like the Greek Theater, there was a field outside the venue where you could hear the show even if you didn't have a ticket). So, Fred, you only "heard" that FM signal if you had an FM receiver in the show, or in your car,or at an alternate location(and knew the signal number on the dial) . Remember that FM signals are inferior to the "live" sound because FM involves a lot of signal compression, which dramatically effected the mid-range sound. Healy compensated for that on the array end by using "expanders" essentially to decompress the compressed FM sound. In short, even if you had a recording of the FM feed, it would be inferior to the feed from the board, which is where it came from prior to being compressed. There was no direct feed from the stage, just the monitor mix which Harry Popick controlled through most of the late seventies,and only the band heard through the stage monitors. Some one may have those compressed FM recordings, but I doubt it, since none have really surfaced in circulation. Yes, Fred, with the advent of the ear bud monitors in the nineties,anyone in the band could speak directly to the board mixer. This was accomplished through a "defeat" mode that would stop the signal from a microphone from going anywhere but to the board mixer's headphones.This allowed each member to give the board mixer feedback on how to mix the sound for each players ear bud system. So by the nineties, there were seven different mixes being performed just for the musicians on-stage! Pretty complicated,eh? And, none of them were hearing the house mix or each other if they didn't want to! Some of these ear bud tapes have surfaced (eg. Deer Creek '95 as the gates were crashed). What's interesting about these recordings is that they contain individual members telling the board mixer who to turn up or down in their mix. So, by 1993 or so, the band that thrived on improvisation by listening to one another had developed the capacity to literally turn off other players in the band. I believe this had a striking effect on the quality of the performance for obvious reasons. Generally, the quality of these recordings is inferior to the board mix, but a few exist. BTW, the band used FM in one other way. Beginning with "Shakedown Street", Healy picked a low frequency FM band in San Rafeal and broadcast tracks from the studio tapes and rehearsals on it so the band members could listen to them while in their cars to and from the studio on Front Street. This was supposed to help them finish a record on deadline(HAH!) but a little sidetrip to Egypt got in the way... Hope that answers your questions, Fred.

Im not shure of the actual frequencies or eqpt that Healy was running, but I have many tapes from the 88 east coast runs that were recorded that way. I understand that Healy knew that his brodcasts were illegal . Not sure if the FCC caught on to itand thats why he stopped or if he decided to move onto another medium.

Thanks for the knowledge paisley It was somethig I had heard about, but never could confirm, and I had never heard one of those recordings. Would love to hear any of the earbud recordings if anyone wants to trade, Thanks.

...shall we go, you and I while we can... hhmmmmm...not to get off topic here, but suffice it to say that if the band was gonna worry about federal agencies investigating them,probably the FCC wasn't at the top of the list! If you have any kind of FM recording, then you might look around for a piece of old audio gear called a "compander". As the name implies, it has the capacity to compress or expand a signal. Garage sales might be a good bet, 'cause I think they stopped makin' 'em in the mid-seventies. Theoretically, they would improve the sound of any FM signal. Fred, you're welcome! Always nice to be able to shine a little light on stuff like this.Actually the Deer Creek example I used above is the only one I know of, and it's Phil's ear bud that's on the recording.If you're not hearing the voice of a band member before and between some songs,it's not the real deal. Caveat Emptor!

This stuff is right down my other hobbies alley. I love anything to do with RF and the funny thing is that even when Dan was doing this in the late 80s I didnt get more info. Its good to have that little slice of stuff to put into the ol noggin. I do have a few tapes of the earbud "stage" in the 90s where bobby is saying "I need more Vince" etc... I also recall being at the CalExpo run in 1992 when they were gettting used to the ear buds and they all kept messing with their ears etc.... Thanks for the info guys.Eric

All of you mac users should pick up xACT from Versiontracker.com. It can encode, decode .flac & .shn as well as extract CD's and even write .flac tags. xACT is ALL you need. If your transfering your tapes, I'd really recomend that unless these are your masters, check bt.etree.org there are so many shows going at all times in both .shn and .flac. Chances are stuff straight from the masters are already done. If your transfring your masters, then seek out either a eridol UA-1X.http://www.onlinemusicstore.com.au/index.php?page=showProduct&id=ROEDUA… Which takes RCA to a USB device. This will offer much cleaner signal than the analog (mic) input on your mac. There are other devices out there so a little google search. For recording and editing I recomend SOund Studio. It's NOT free but not much money at all. Most new mac come with it already loaded. It's a nice basic editor. Audacity works well also, however since it is a cross platform program (windows and mac and even linux i believe). The interface is not very mac like and clunky. Again loads of options out there. Check versiontracker.com for pretty much any software you may need for the the mac. A lot of them are freeware most are shareware that costs very little. Hope this helps some to the fellow macheads out there. I'm not on here alot but I'll try and check back in. Also if your looking to get into recording shows or even alot of these transfer questions. Tons of info is available at http://www.taperssection.com. You have to register to post but there is a ton of people taping just about everything under the sun. Loads of info.

before i got a computer.i bought a phillips stand alone cd burner with analog in puts.this wont make digital cd,s but will let you make some thing to play,down side is you have to trak thim or you cant skip throug the cd and not to many people will condone this for trading.its ok for personal use but try to get some didgital lossless shows for tradin b&p me some cds and I will make you some

Hey Headway... Im using a iMac g3 (dv) with a LaCie burner. So far, so good. I also have 3 PCs and the Mac seems to be the simplest to get stuff burnt onto disk. Im listening to 4/15/89 that I got off off etree last night. This was all new to me a few weeks ago and Ive got onto the digital bus after years of analog trading. Heres a simple start up which Ive found (with some help). 1) http//db.etree.org 2) DL (flac or shn) to Azureus 3) decode to AIFF or Wav with xACT 4) use a burn prg (I have used iTunes 7.x and "Burn" 1.7 As mentioned I have Audicity for my analog tapes but have yet to experiment much with it as I am re-treading all my tunes from the above method. I just hope it wont take another 7+ years lol.. Eric

I'm thinking of investing in a HDCD player - any thoughts? "From day to day, just lettin' it ride, You get so far away from how it feels inside, You can't let go, 'cause you're afraid to fall, But the day may come when you can't feel at all."

Sounds like you have a nice workflow going. One thing if you are just burning audio cd's you may look at getting toast 7.0 for burning. Since a few versions ago you can put the flac files into toast and select to burn an audio CD. No need to run it through xACT. This won't work for .shn as it's a compression scheme and not a Audio codec which flac is. Takes a big step out of the equation. Lately it seem slike my iPod is my main audio player and I don't burn audio Cd's much. SO I've found a nice converter that works great. It's called Sound Converter and you can find it on version tracker. Cost is $10 and worth EVERY cent. So I've been taking flac or shn files directly to 256 VBR MP3 files. Depending on processor and ram it does not take to long. But as long as it sounds good on the other side I'm ok with the time it takes. It will also convert just about any format to any format. Very cool. Of course the MP3's are for personal use and never traded. I do give them away sometimes though.

...shall we go, you and I while we can... The only problem with them is that they take the music and put it in a lossy format. Some people can't hear the difference, some can. The reason these files aren't traded is they are degraded copies of the lossless files you started with. Sometime you might want to look at a spectral analysis of an mp3 file to see exactly how much you lose. The result is suprising! The other issue with iPods are those headphones, which, unless you buy a far superior and costly pair, also degrade your sound. The Ipod devices that will handle 20-40 GB's of information can hold lossless files and, since each show approximates 1 GB of information, you can get a lot of information on them for roughly $400.

I have been using a Sony WMD6C deck plugged into a Philips stand alone burner to do this I get one or two shows a week finished to my liking With 20+ years of aud masters it is a long ongoing process

The next thing would be to convert the files onto the iPod for personal listening. I have a couple shows on it now but their in WAV format so 4-5 shows fill the thing up. I probably will convert them for the iPod but only after I get them onto disk via the above steps. OK on Toast. I have 5.0 from the OS 9 days and its a great program too. Im just being spoiled and using the freeware for now. Eric

...shall we go, you and I while we can... If you torrent shows, get this now. http://bt.tree.org/details.php?id=506552 This is the best copy available and I'll keep sharing it all weekend.

...shall we go, you and I while we can... Should that link not work, use this at bt.tree: gd72-8-27.sbd.braverman.16582.sbeok.flacf

I am going to disagree with Big D who says not to use computers. What a lot of folks do not know is that a PC or MAC can be optimized for audio recording. (Think dedicated workstation) The use of good components (cough,nakamichi, cough) is critical, but it is even more important to take the A>D (analog to digital conversion for the non-techy lurkers) OUT OF THE COMPUTER. There are many, many high quality and inexpensive external sound card or A>D options that fill this role. Some are much more than adequate than a pricey professional DAT deck and for a nominal cost. I transfer tapes as a volunteer for a music preservation 501c3 project that myself an a couple buddies began. (www.thespps.org) So to revisit what Big D claims, using cassette>DAT for A>D>Standalone CD burner is archaic at best. Why bother going redbook at all? Why not take it straight to 24 bit? If it is my master then I am not going to put my masters on CD at all. They either get streamed at 24 bit on a home theater set up or ripped to a DVD-A for the true audiophile experience. If I happen to trade it to someone else they get a data copy of my master and can rip it to 96kbps .mp3 for all I care. Just don't torture my ears with that crap. ;p Send a PM if someone wants help researching setting up your own transfer solutions, or even help transferring a master or two if you don't want to eat the cost of buying new gear just for a few transfers. Peace y'all...dsj kskreiderATlivetapingDOTcom

Good info DSJ...Thanks

Hey, Cool site (www.thespps.org) thanks for posting it. I can't wait to check it out when I have some time.

Hey for those still trying to figure out a good way to try and convert tapes to cd's check out DAK.com. They have some good equipment that will allow for an easy way to get this done. I bought an EQ from them back in the 80's which still holds up today and which I am using to convert my tapes to cd, but I'm doing it the long way. They have equipment that will convert tapes, reel to reel and vinayl to a computer or laptop. Furthermore, they do a great job in explaining all of this stuff so old folks who aren't exactly computer knowledgable, like me, can understand. I know it sounds like I'm pitching for the company, but for real they do a good job and their products helped me ammass over 3000hrs of tapes back in the old days. So if anyone is still struggling with this it might be worth checking out if only for the detailed explanations that they give, which might help some understand the process better. Hope this helps some of you.

I checked out the DAK.com page and it does have a good info base for those folks who need to have it all explained etc...Thanks Fred.

whats a good taping set up for relativly cheap?

Thomas DI use btorrent to download shows as either .flac or shn files while I have no trouble burning the flac files My winamp wont burn the shn files Someone earlier on this tree mentioned a shn plugin for winamp. Does anybody know where I can get one? I went to the winamp page and their were plugins for everything but shn files. Can anyone Help? My hard disc free space is shrinking terribly Thanks!

I was wondering if anyone out there has worked out a slick method for capturing streaming music for replay on iPods.

hi thomas, it's at etree.org.

come to think of it that only plays the files. i think the way i burned the gdlive collection was to go into prefs (winamp) plugins output and change it to nullsoft; then winamp will burn an audio disc of the shn files. to listen you have to go back in and change it back to direct sound.

ok i sorta missed a step there. after you go to output in preferences in winamp and change it to nullsoft then you hit configure and tell it where to put the files. what the nullsoft output setting does is convert to wave files.

It is a great little application that performs all sorts of helpful functions. Among them is decoding shn or flac files to wav files. You can then burn the wav files onto CD using a variety of CD burning software. It is free. Just google traderslittlehelper and download it. You wont be sorry. Peace, Richard

GASP!!!!! was looking through a Hammacher Schelemmer catalog at the Dr.s office today and lo and behold found that they have a pricy little gadget that will convert tapes to Mp3 files into you're computer. It works for both pc and mac. Comming in at $ 199.95 unless you have a sick amount of tapes it might be something to look into.

Its kinda wierd that I can get advice/discussion here on how to best download and rip lossless GD SBD's available through other sites like etree.org but seem unable to get similar advice/discussion on using this site's streaming content on an iPod or MP3 player. Given the current furor over MP3 DL versus streaming content delivery in the Taper's section, I would have thought this was the place for recommendations for capturing streaming content for use on iPods or other MP3 players. A week or two ago I asked for advice on how I could best use these streams on my MP3 player and came up dry here. I dug in some and here's the best result I have been able to figure out so far. Anyone have a slicker solution? Here's a good URL to find out about snagging the RTSP content, assuming the selected player choice is streaming Windows media. There are probably other choices for those who opt for the streaming Apple media. http://all-streaming-media.com/site-archive/capture-streaming-video-and… Using any of the packages described there, one can capture the stream but I think the file names have to be manually redone when the stream is finished. The resulting files are 96kbps @ 44KHz sampling. The snagged files can be easily converted to MP3 using foobar2000 which preserves header tagging. Yes I know I am converting from one lossless format to another but a) the captured .ASF files dont work on my portable player; b) I am not using the streams for archival purposes; and c) at 96 kbps I have to be listening very hard to hear the difference while I am jogging or driving to work in my car :P Does anyone have a better solution that does not require the file renaming step?

Just interested in listening away from my comp.

if it is at all useful I have been using a simple programme for some years now called POLDERBITS for digitising my old vinyl and tapes, but it also works fine for streams. It has a recording element (you have to adjust the input levels manually), an editing element which includes some simple tools to edit the recording, to filter it (for tape hiss or vinyl crackles), and a simple equaliser. Once you are happy with the result you can then save it with any name you like as an MP3 (at almost any quality you like) or as .wav You can then open the files in ITUNES or whatever and edit the information as you wish. Its so simple that it took me ten minutes to work it out and I have digitised a lot of old tapes and vinyl. An eval copy is free, but it is 40 USD otherwise..a bit much maybe but it has saved me a fortune and I cannot get on with audacity. Btw IMO the Quciktime streams from this site sound significantly better than the WMP streams. it is worth getting quicktime

well i used to be able to drag over to my win player now i cant ??? can anyone help mei already reloaded win med player 11??? help please mtgdeadhead

I have version 10 on my laptop, but while I was on Sugarmegs yesterday I saw a note that V11 doesnt work right for "our" needs so thats why you might be having issues. Anyone else with the newer version?Eric

well i guess i already used 11 but something happend and now when i click on a song or sonds i get this little box asking me to play it in win player but theres nothin to let me drag it to win med player songlistbox.before when i clicked it would start playin then i would drag it to the list and i would keep it??????am i f---cked or what?? i love this site and the music

Heres the reasons Sugarmegs gives - sounds similiar to what your experiencing: "If you are absolutly STUCK with windows media player version 11 here is a workaround. FOR THOSE USING WINDOWS 2000 or WINDOWS XP, Right click the .asx file you want to listen to and download it to your desktop. Open it for text editing in notepad by right clicking on the downloaded .asx file. Do a search for ://mms (control f to search the text. Hint: its near the botton of the text.) and change it to ://http. Save and close it. Double click it to open it in Windows media player. You will not be able to fast forward the stream as you can with media player 9 or 10. FOR THOSE USING VISTA, you can simply click any .asx file and it will play as described above, no FF, without you having to do anything else. The reason for this is Microsoft is no longer supporting the ://mms protocol in player 11 which does not seem quite right to me but is the case neverless. Sugarmegs uses ://mms protocol because we use a 2000 server. " I hope that helps Eric

What is the best way to get my old bootlegs onto my computer?

I have used a free program called Audacity which allows you to record a tape and then go back and seperate it into tracks. Its a bit intimidating at first but after you play around and go through the instructions it does what you want it to. http://audacity.sourceforge.net/ Eric