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  • Graceful_Dead
    Joined:
    Another 50th Anniversary

    This October will be the 50th anniversary of the first set of farewell concerts.

    How many have there been since then?

    Appropriate time for the Kennedy Center honor

  • daverock
    Joined:
    Spiral Light was good

    That really moved things up a gear for me with The Dead. Not just the magazine, with it's great reviews, articles and news items, but also because through them I was able to access tapes. In fact, if I am a Deadhead, I would date it from about 1987, when this happened. Up to that point I had all the official albums and the odd bootleg, but from then on I was getting tapes delivered regularly. And once you discover one source, others seem to open up too. Great stuff!

  • Oroborous
    Joined:
    My bad

    I didn’t look up, but I think I mixed up the Pranksters trip.
    Thanks for correcting and straightening out the ole synapses lol
    Now that you mention about/for the millennium etc…and not in 90…

    And also, now that mention, Brent’s passing probably would have added to the energy factor. We were at the first shows in Richfield with Vince after Brent’s much too early demise, and there most definitely was a lot of extra energy.
    A lot of what now and uncertainty and ?
    Will it suck? Will it be good? Things had been steadily improving the last couple years before so there was a lot of anxiety or uncertainty.
    But man, once they started playing all that energy morphed into that big ole ball of “1” that everyone in the building became, and as the night progressed it was like you could feel 18K people all exhale in relief all at the same time, as we all realized that, “yeah, this is going to be different, but it’s gonna be alright” we will survive, we will get by!
    So I’m sure that must have been a variable too.

    Back to the bad actors thought. Again, I’m struggling to not be so ?
    I feel I’ve painted an overemphasis or oversaturated picture of people?
    Let’s think of it this way, it’s like BITD when grownups used to say “one bad apple spoils the barrel” meaning, most certainly most of the folks at shows were like the good apples, but now there were more and more bad ones getting into the barrel. And though there weren’t so many relatively, the bad ones were now a whole new kind of bad that spread the rot more prominently. ?
    Hopefully that makes better sense?

    Edit: Or lol
    What BC just said ; )

    And perhaps the biggest factor was just sheer size like BC said.
    No matter what kind of head, there just were now too many for the scene to function healthy…

  • bluecrow
    Joined:
    Scene in the NW

    I saw almost all my 90s shows in the Pacific NW. Eugene 90, 93 and 94, Seattle 94 and 95, Portland 95. I think the scene was overall a lot healthier but the 94 Eugene shows still attracted enough fools clowns and jerks to kill the Dead's return there the next year which is why they ended up at a lame Portland race track in '95. By the third show in Eugene 94 (a huge show) it was clear that they wouldn't be allowed to return. The camp zone in the parking lot was a freaking trash dump (I was lucky enough to be staying on a "peacock farm" outside of town). Stories of messed up and disrespectful behavior throughout the town - and the locals being rightfully angered by that - were already circulating. By chance I was visiting family in the Midwest early July 95 and saw the last 2 shows in Soldier Field (brother had extra tickets he bought for friend who then changed his mind.) Wasn't there for the scene so didn't spend much time in the lot but do remember a young woman describing all the weird stuff that had gone down earlier on that summer tour and it was clear she was spooked by the vibe. The 12/89 shows at LA Forum (my only SoCal shows) were the only time I was offered "chiva" - what's that I had to ask and it was H - by a non-scene, just dealing, guy out in the lot. Politely turned down that offer.

  • proudfoot
    Joined:
    Spiral Light

    I saw that written about in Golden Road fanzine

    Paul Bodenham was publisher

    The Ticketless Hordes was my name for the cling-ons

    My final 3 attended GD shows were fine in my opinion 5/24, 25, 26/95. No problems, perfectly acceptable shows. Then came the Tour From Hell after Shoreline. Oy.

  • daverock
    Joined:
    1990

    Oro-yes, what you say is consistent with how I saw things at the time - and how I see things now. I didn't know anyone into the band at that time, but excitement was generated by the "Spiral Light" fanzine that came out every two months or so. So I was aware of the recent return of Dark Star, and also of the increased popularity of the band in the U.S, following Touch of Grey. This was tempered by Brent's sad demise during summer 1990 - so there was also a sense of not quite knowing how this would affect the band. I can remember thinking that Tom Constanten would probably rejoin - which shows how much I knew !

    I wasn't aware of the Merry Pranksters coming to Britain in 1990 - although they did come in the year 2000 for the millenium celebrations. Both Ken Kesey and Ken Babbs were part of this, and they put on a show at The Barbican in London - showing footage of the bus trip from 1964.... interspersed with comedy sketches!

    Back to the Dead - I was amazed at how many Americans had travelled over for those shows. They seemed to make up most of the crowd. I saw Santana at Wembley in 1991, and I wondered if a similar scene would follow them over. It did not. No other American band I saw - I saw live shows from 1972-2019 - had anything like the same following The Dead did, that travelled over here to see them.

  • Oroborous
    Joined:
    Set and setting

    Yeah, that’s what I’m trying to articulate.
    That the environment that we and the band were now forced to live in was perhaps the biggest factor in the diminishing returns etc.
    I don’t think they liked it any more than we did, but what were they going to do, other take a break like they should have…
    And of course that environment was created to attempt to deal with the over extended masses. And yeah, overall the people weren’t generally as bad as I may portray, but bad actors and behavior were increasingly evident, and often more heinous, and especially in specific places or types of places etc.

    Daverock, Im guessing in your unusual situation:
    1- yes, probably not your usual run of the mill DHs like some of us here.
    Fanatics with the ways and means perhaps. Ya know, the more invested in something, the more folks will get worked up. For some perhaps combined into a lifetime European vacation.
    I know DL saw some of those 90 shows, as I think he was studying there? I forget…
    2- extra hype and excitement as they hadn’t been to Europe recently
    3- I believe Kesey and co were there and even brought Futhur 2
    4- the return of DS, Attics etc inserted a huge hit of adrenaline to the scene in general, so guessing over there also.
    5- the popularity explosion via TOG/ITD must have had an effect over there too
    6- concerts and crowds in general had changed by then
    7- perspective: you weren’t that experienced in live GD madness etc (that’s not a criticism! I mean how would you be…) and the saying “there is nothing like a GD concert” worked on many levels. So unlike us, who almost took for granted usually hitting as many shows as we reasonably could on spring, summer, and fall tours (say between 5-15 a year average) it must have been a very unusual and eye opening experience, especially compared to 81!

    But of course as first show says, much of this is perspective dependent fo sho!
    Like many of our more aaa “mature” heads here, they got turned off in the 80s because of the environment changes etc.
    if your normal perspective was the Fillmore, even a small hockey rink might become unenjoyable, especially with reserved seating and so many people, comparatively.But If all you’ve ever known is Giants stadium, and never freaked freely in Maine, or Cali, Hampton, or any of the many sweet, smaller, outta the way places they used to be able to play, well your perspective might not think things so bad?
    To me no more GA was the biggest negative factor that effected our show enjoyment. Sure a stadium is never gonna give you the same vibe, but if you were able to hang out where you wanted, which as sound freaks was usually the SB, it made a big positive difference.

    So the slow but steady population growth, later exasperated by the tsunami after 87, which also attracted too many civilian non heads just about for the bollocks, which led to having to play big crappy venues in crappy places, and no wonder folks used to a completely different experience in every way, gave up…

  • daverock
    Joined:
    Sense of place

    Another factor in crowd behaviour may be related to where the show took place. The shows I saw were in London, so U.S. Deadheads had to travel some considerable distance to be there. This must have made it impossible for many who followed the band to attend. I have never read a message on the board from anyone in the U.S. who went to Wembley in 1990. What distinguished those who travelled from those who didn't ? Lack of responsibilities? More money? Youth...
    I don't know if this relevant, but young Brits abroad used to have a terrible reputation for behaving less responsibly abroad than they did at home, simply because they were on holiday. They were renowned for over doing it in Amsterdam in the 90's where some of them flocked for the ready availability of dope. A few hours after arriving, many of them would be incapacitated!

    So...in a nutshell, the shows I saw cannot be regarded as typical simply because they took place in England.

  • mkav
    Joined:
    ORO

    I saw the GD and offshoots when I could from 1975 until, well, today. I was never what you'd call "hardcore" in that I never went on the road, but was, and am, a very avid fan. I guess I'm a little clueless since, other than the sheer size of the crowd and therefore venues, I never really noticed the deterioration in the "quality" of the fanbase that I've read so much about.
    Well, until 1995. I was in Maryland Heights, Mo. for the show after the Noblesville fiasco. The fans in the lot were pissed. The band was pissed based on the letter they circulated, nd their general demeanor.
    The 7/6/95 show was lackluster (great setlist, though)...partly due to Jerry's health, but I'm also sure due to the band's state of mind.
    I appreciate the perspective of those were more intimately involved with the entire scene than I was, over time. Thanks for posting.

  • 1stshow70878
    Joined:
    Oro

    Nice essay Pedro!
    It is about perspective I suppose.
    I had so few shows compared to everyone here but that timeline felt the same. Luckily I had nice venues so the ugliness just wasn't that noticeable. That said I knew I was done after my '94 show and even had the weird feeling that either Jerry or I wouldn't be around much longer. Somehow I'm still here, lol.
    Cheers

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17 years 1 month
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The bus came by. We got on. That's how it all began. Almost as soon as the Fare Thee Well shows were announced, folks started planning to meet in Chicago. They met. They connected. Things were never the same. And now, further! Or maybe Furthur.
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9 years 5 months
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infinity and beyond indeed.... Positive thoughts and energy for the Sarge.... is it pie time yet?
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13 years 5 months
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Hey now brother. See you're first on the new bus. Much nicer than the old one. Thanks for putting the coffee on. Sarge is sleeping in the back, opiates can take their toll especially when mixed with them bones. Thanks for asking btw. I'm certain the tribe will find us, we are everywhere. Thanks to geoalwaysthesentimentalonemeister for the new bus name. We have to honor the past and prepare for the future....you have taught me a tremendous amount George, thank you. marye, thank you on behalf of the rabble for giving us space and the freedom to be the freaks we are, thanks for the new bus as well. You are always welcome here. Sarge, don't bogart that bone my friend, pass it to Boo Boo.... Hey Boo Boo some pie please.... Hey Jerry we still miss you.... Hey JeffSmith....Onward? We still need a driver, I retired after FTW, Sarge is rehabbing and Miami is MIA.... Love is real Not Fade Away....mmmm bop bop .... bop bop
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Did somebody say new dus???? Hey Sarge, gimmie the keys and we'll take this baby out for a spin...you packed extra bones right? Hang on tight boys and girls as da wheels on ba dus go round and round... Hope All the Daydreamers are enjoying the summertime... Love to you ALL!
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13 years 4 months
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that's what I'm talking about... welcome home Miami glad to have you (wo)manning the wheel. Keep on truckin' mama....
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10 years 1 month
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Can't believe it's been over two years since Sunshine Daydreamers started hopping on this bus! What a long strange trip it's been! Onward indeed! LikeToHike's got my vote for new bus driver. Look forward to more white-knuckled, free-wheeling, cryptic, sleight-of-hands bus trips through the cosmos. (I know I've already said) ONWARD!
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9 years 4 months
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LiketoHike behind the wheel, Oat Jeff directing us onward, and rrrrgggrrr keeping us sane, whoo hooo I'll take a slice of that blueberry peach, a la mode please
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13 years 5 months
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Watcha talking 'bout Willis... One thing is for sure liketohike will keep us safe.... Hey Boo Boo this pie is making Sarge pie eyed.....is that normal?
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9 years 5 months
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that's not the pie, its the autumn haze, the pie makes him drool
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9 years 1 month
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funny...Sour Diesel is what ba dus runs on...imagine that
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9 years 6 months
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can run wild with the aforementioned gas...inspiration an be found anywhere. Good to see Daydreamers here and there, welcome to the Sunshiner's new lair; May all who stop to shake hands and sing, Hear the music, the ripples that ring. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-voI8q4j87U&feature=youtu.be Happy Birthday Terrapin, and welcome aboard one and all.
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13 years 4 months
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To coin a phrase. When my nephew was recounting his adventures in the pit at Wrigley (a month ago already?), he was talking about the time between Scarlet and Fire. Lacking better terminology, he said, “We were in the caret”, as in the > symbol used in setlists. I know all of you have been “in the caret” at some point.
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10 years 1 month
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Perfect! Well said nephew of Graceful_Dead. Oh, to be in the caret! Onward. . .
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13 years 5 months
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It soothes my soul to see so many old faces....ummmm make that avatars back here. This forum has been invaluable in offering me smiles, laughs and some much needed support over the past two years...Have a great weekend, I'm going back to the >, it is indeed a sweet spot.....kinda like the Philzone...
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9 years 1 month
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Hey Now Daydreamers dis dus is rockin' and rollin' down the road...quickly approaching August...you know what that means.... The Days Between! We miss Jerry on this Bus, yes we do... Who's going to Meet up at the Movies....raise your hands/paws... Have a great weekend all...enjoy the last days of July.
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13 years 5 months
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I know... Meet up at the movies is on my radar, funny thing it's on August 1, 2017....funny coincidence? Ohhhhh I get it, it's to celebrate mkav's wife's birthday, boy that is sooooo thoughtful of them.... HEY MRS. MKAV HAPPY BIRTHDAY! from the dog and me..... the Days Between, I can feel some songs coming on the horizon.... the wheels on this bus sure do go round in circles indeed!
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9 years 6 months
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Liketohike, Liketobrivebadus, and liketosmile, We be celebrating the past, honoring the present and anticipating the future, as all of it makes up the magic carpet we find ourselves on. So many ways to communicate, so many ways to share, so many ways to smile. Good to see you and you and you on board...pets, parts, and participles, the rising sun being blue, the sky a vivid yellow, ba dus crammed with laughter and song...and donuts, always those pesky donuts and coffee too. Got a spot for all...we miss Jerry but remember his smile. Destinations unknown by some, imagined by others, and a planned by those whose wheel stopped revolving long enough to score tickets. All share in the journey, all welcome aboard. Know that these wheels slow down for caret crossings, stop on a diner's dime, and have been known to circle back as needed. Price of admission is a hoot and a holler, or a flashing peace sign and smile. So pay at the door, pay it forward, put it on the tab, it don't matter a bit. Your seat is reserved always and forever. Allllll aboarrrrrddddd!!!
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9 years 5 months
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Was a good show on a fine tour but, outside on the road the police were on the hunt for heads, fortunately I left late in my '70 VW camper, but we saw so many folks pulled over it was sick, it was one of two years in a row they pulled that crap, so bad the Dead's newsletter that came with mail order tickets warned of the situation. We are headed to the show, hopefully no presence after....... Happy Birthday wishes to Ms. Mkav and also to a certain retired Dus Briver......
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13 years 5 months
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So at the Burgettstown show this June, whatever lot we parked in, the local 5-0 had drug sniffing Rin Tin Tins, we were tailgating and minding our own business, this Narc comes by with Lassie who starts sniffing me n my buddies. Well all we had was in the closed car, they proceeded to the hippies to our left, a sweet lady and her friends. Said dog sniffed her, whimpered, cop asks her to empty her pockets, she pulls out a lighter, bones and a bag of herbage. He grabs her, cuffs her and takes her away. Ain't that a fucking shame. Hey Boo Boo, thanks for remembering! 7-12-89 was indeed a great show.... Hey Sarge, no more Vicodin!
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9 years 4 months
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Thanks to your heads up regarding the situation at Burgettstown we avoided the heat, but they sure did have a strong presence cuffed and dragged away for a few bones, WTF and all the real criminals are wearing white shirts and suit coats.... and we can't forget birthday wishes and thoughts for the one we miss........ Dereck and the Dominos released on vinyl today and Jerry's Reflections as well
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13 years 4 months
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Layla and Other Assorted Love Songs on vinyl? I'm on that like white on rice..... it's my favorite album of all time, if I had only one to bring to a desert island, that's my pick....
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9 years 4 months
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Music Direct gets the first allotment from Mobile Fidelity, so the earlier presses and ships a day or two before anyone else, I pre-ordered and it shipped today, Happy Friday, oh yes!
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15 years 6 months
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Made the leap over to our new home!! Have a good weekend Folks! It's about 108 down here...no worries!
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17 years
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mrs mkav (who is Mary, so maybe she is THE mkav?) says thank you to all the birthday well-wishers, and back atcha Rich.
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9 years 5 months
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Is this where I get on?
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9 years 1 month
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It certainly is...dis dus stops on a dime...as Geo has pointed out, and it's known to circle back to pick up those we may have missed. Climb aboard and take a seat...Hey Sarge...pass the bone to Kurt Dawg...and keep em comin'. Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends, we're so glad you could attend...come inside, come inside...
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13 years 5 months
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Happy 75th brother.... nothing left to do but smile, Smile, SMILE!!!!!! :-)
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16 years 3 months
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Hey Now Marye - we took the plunge today. It's nearly sold out too, in less than 1/2 a day. Only unanswered question is the show dates (three shows over four days). Doesn't matter...we're stoked for 6 days and 5 nights of intimate Dead, on-the-beach. Should be pretty cool. Any SD'ers bringing their flip-flops?
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9 years 4 months
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Did any body go the movie last night? Our local theatre needs a sound system update, ceiling speakers don't cut it.
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13 years 5 months
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Tell them to get some KEFs.... or better yet, Bose :-)
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9 years 4 months
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yes, bose,with a stereo input......
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10 years 1 month
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All the best to those of you gravitating toward Morrison to help celebrate Jerry's 74th! Gonna be a high time at Red Rocks tonight! Onward!
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13 years 5 months
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Jerrys 75th my man ONWARD! :-)
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10 years 1 month
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Still miss Jerry!
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13 years 5 months
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I know (said disaffectedly David Gans style)
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15 years 6 months
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Just listened to the Jerry birthday show on Sirius this afternoon...AMAZING!!! Just my .02!! :-)
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13 years 4 months
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I am putting finishing touches on a presentation about the Dead phenomenon, and realized I have never seen an estimate of the number of Dead Heads that exist. Has anyone seen anyone try to SWAG this?
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17 years
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interesting question...what do you define as deadhead? i know plenty of people who like the dead, have more than a passing knowledge of the dead's work, and may have even been to a few shows, but probably would not consider themselves "deadheads". Would you, for this purpose?
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I feel ya, mkav. Maybe its like a weighted FTE measure to account for people who are Dead-curious. The alternative, strict, way to go is to say, you are a Head when you are ready to declare that as an identity. And thanks Rich for, well, you know, being ... rrrgrr But the simple questions is, does an estimate exist? it should be a census category. But I now believe we're now off the endangered list.
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13 years 4 months
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Very round, unsupported number in that article on the UNC prof.I guess we will have to develop our own methodology.
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13 years 5 months
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Valid point Tom. How about this... will anyone who is a deadhead please raise your hand.... now all you have to do is count them.