Grateful Dead

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Herman Goering: Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.

Must you insist on making sense???..............can i have some of that creamcheese...smeared on a cookie?

I think that the mechanism is still the same. Just thought I throw out what a bona fide Voice of Evil had to say on the subject of war...the more things change, the more they don't.

Feeling wicked munchy today...

all i have are some whole wheat nabisco premium saltines....

Mike Edwards from ELO was killed when a 600 kilo bale of hay fell from a tractor onto his van! RIP and what a freak accident! ********************************** By trying we can easily learn to endure adversity -- another man's I mean. Mark Twain

and on Pig's birthday, too.....

is sitting on my shoulder doing something strange to my ear and laughing at my inability to access the chatroom...............sigh!..............this is a little known species, related to the Flying Monkeys...who are, of course, famous for their finesse at stealing beer and flying it to Iowa, and sometimes Spain.

The most destructive fire in CO history is burning down Fourmile and Lefthand canyons. At least 135 homes are burned to the ground and the fire is only 10% contained assuming these nasty winds do not come back. Not to mention the other 3000 some evacuees. The smoke is so thick in the air that it is wreaking havoc on eyes throats and lungs. I don't think there have been any fatalities but I know of a couple of friends who have evacuated and have not heard from others. "The dire wolf collects his due while the boys sing round the fire"

But word on the street is that someone backed into a propane tank that exploded. It certainly was not lightning since it hasn't rained much lately, so this was a human error. I don't know if I agree with mandatory evacuations, I think people can make their own decisions whether to leave or not, hell it's your home, it's hard to leave that behind and may vey well be worth risking your life for. I do agree that if you live in the mountains or on a river bank or on a beach it is a good idea to be prepared for disasters. "The dire wolf collects his due while the boys sing round the fire"

How comes they only fly to iowa or spain whats the connection ? i can find no evidence of these little fuckers anywhere.I did misplace a cold one the other night ahhhhh thats where it went.

A fifty stone bale of hay crashing into your van is a freaky thing apparently the elo cellist had just battled with cancer and depression and came out on top. Very sad. My the four winds blow you safely home

im out when it comes to this subject had enough Terry jones is not going to be burning bibles anymore because he has been assured that the mosque is being relocated that aint the case.Up pops Donald trump with his talking hair hes a concerned citizen and wants to help ermm is that the only reason Mr tramp.

Unbelievable! What a terrible week for fires.. at least they have a decent handle on the Boulder fire (I think it is 30% contained). "The dire wolf collects his due while the boys sing round the fire"

The Flying Monkeys were mythologically realistic creatures from the pre-historic days of this chatroom. They were devious little buggers, who tended to swipe beer and deliver it to chatroom friends in other parts of the world-Spain because that's where Sunshine Daydream and I were living-he in one corner of Andalucia and me in the other. We never knew exactly when the lil devils would strike, but they seemed to be particularly fond of visiting Sunshine Daydream; especially after his afternoon 420! Johnman, any sightings lately?? I suspect that the modern bouts of chatroom drama were not to their liking, and that they may have followed the dinosaurs into extinction-which would be very sad indeed.********************************** By trying we can easily learn to endure adversity -- another man's I mean. Mark Twain

What happened to him being bankrupt? Well I guess if you are called Trump, bankrupcy still means a few hundred million in petty cash lying around or what?? Burning books that are holy for so many people is just MEAN! Yes, in theory this moron is within his rights to express himself by doing so, but I guess I am against offensive symbolic gestures. I am not overly fond of US media these days, and the Tea Party, etc, but I still would not burn a US Flag or anything, because it risks offending normal every day folks. Am against being an a-hole to get my point across, personally would rather stick to arguing facts. ********************************** By trying we can easily learn to endure adversity -- another man's I mean. Mark Twain

But I'm in agreement with you. Preserving our rights means allowing idiots to do stupid, offensive things. How this podunk small-time pastor got so much publicity...I guess I mark that down to the 24-hr news cycle, the age of the Internet and instant communication. It's also the age of zero personal responsibility. The guy in question is currently disavowing responsibility for any harm that's come to people protesting his provocative words/intent. And while it's true that the responsibility for violence lies with the people doing the violence (and the violence proves the preacher's point, as far as he is concerned), knowing that your words and actions are certain to result in inciting violence in others...there's a burden to be borne there as well, IMO. You'd think a professed man of god would get that. Personally, if there are objects in the world that I hold sacred, books are at the top of the list. And Beatles records. Really, who would ever stoop so low as to burn Beatles records to make some kind of point?

I learned in law classes in college that freedom of speech stops at directly inciting others to violence-and burning holy books is a pretty much guaranteed going to incite violent reaction. Though the line in this case is still blurry between direct and indirect. And yes, you would think that a self-professed man of God would be conscious of his moral responsibility to others, and try to be a good example as opposed to a rabble-rouser. ********************************** By trying we can easily learn to endure adversity -- another man's I mean. Mark Twain

Is a direct call for violence. Simple as that. And as George Carlin always said, none of us have rights. Say what you will but you better understand that there is a certain responsibility behind what you say especially when you are addressing the public. Worship whomever or whatever you want but don't push that on me, the list goes on and on.. "The dire wolf collects his due while the boys sing round the fire"

It seems to me that some folks proclaim the magic word ‘freedom’ so much that it has diluted and cheapened its meaning. They end up acting like spoiled kids, using a simplistic interpretation of the concept of freedom to excuse offensive, antisocial, selfish and stupid behaviour. Freedom is a complex concept (as Marye has previously pointed out) and itself needs to have limits. If those limits are not to be set by the State (something I admire as being fundamental to the American way), then it should be the job of responsible citizens to define those limits themselves thorough their own behaviour. For many people in the world freedom has a more fundamental meaning than freedom to act like an attention seeking brat; they seek freedom from fear, oppression, discrimination, dispossession, disenfranchisement and enforced poverty. If Jones wants to give the message that Americans will not be intimidated by radical Islam then there are many more intelligent and productive ways of doing it than burning Korans. Anyway it seems that Jones has found a way out of the corner he got himself in by claiming that God has conveniently given him a message to back off. It’s a shame really, because I was about to stage my own special protest against his idiocy and teach him not to mess with me. By exercising my freedom to rip up a bible and use it to.....oh never mind. I miss Frank Zappa.

I like that one Badger!! "The dire wolf collects his due while the boys sing round the fire"

But it's blocked on the computer I'm on. The flip side of the coin for me is the seemingly huge number of people in the world who think that being offended is justification for violence. Slightly offended (Hey, Yo mama!) to profoundly offended (burn my holy book, my flag, etc). It would be nice, for once, to be able to put some of these things in perspective. Here we have guy whose message from God is to protest radical Islamists (and as far as he's concerned, all Muslims are radical) by burning Korans (I have to admit that I am curious as to where he's getting his Korans...I know I don't have pile gathering dust in my house anywhere. And now that he's not going to burn them, what's he going to do with them?). First, why do we pay any attention to ANYONE who claims to receive personal messages from God? That's an instant signal to me to move on. Second, he's got like 30 or 50 members in his church -- those numbers should tell us something. And here we all are, the entire world it seems, giving him the time of day. Huh? Let it go, give it up. Save your indignation for something that's worth the effort....

Sarkozy's wife had a small part in a Woody Allen film, that himself produced-and got the cut??Am finding this combination hard to believe, but funny somehow. French soccer team goes home in disgrace and Prez's wife chopped out of a film. Vive la France! Is this all true CB, or just strange German rumor about our neighbors? ********************************** By trying we can easily learn to endure adversity -- another man's I mean. Mark Twain

As with anything else, should be tempered with common courtesy, and respect for others, both concepts that seem to be sorely lacking in the modern world, and not just in the US . No, Tiger...have been no recent sightings of the winged rodentian thieves, but I suspect they are in collusion with the Nazi frog, who I believe may have left the confines beneath my dining table and ventured into my backyard, which the Mouse has recently rescued from the ever present Northwest Blackberries.

for the last bit as I've been working crazy hours at work and then by the time I got things taken care of at home have had little time for much else. Got a little time now so I'll give a little input on some of the recent topics. First let me say my thoughts and prayers go out to all those involved in the CO and CA fires. I live in VA and its interesting to me that we have been under warnings of the possibility of severe fires here. That's not the norm here. Its been so hot and dry this summer that the countryside is a tinder box waiting for a disaster. Just one more sign of global warming! Its getting very scary what we've done to the planet. On the issue of burning Korans and free speech let me say that burning any holy book is offensive. This guy in FL is a total wacko and its unfortunate he's gotten the press he has. I heard on some news outlet that he had been dismissed from his previous congregation for stealing money from the church. This probably tells us something about this guy! I'm a passionate defender of free speech as I am terrified of what could happen without it. However, the point is well taken that with freedom comes responsibility and people should think about the impact of their speech on others. If free speech is abused it may be taken away. Its a shame we can't remember to speak with respect for others. Finally, I'll share a personal decision I've made relative to some of what's currently going on. I was watching the movie Gandhi a couple of weeks ago. One of my favorite movies about someone I consider one of the greatest men in history. While watching it and considering the current mood in this country it occurred to me that I needed to actively reach out to the local Muslim community. It took me a while to act on this impulse as procrastination is one of my worst traits. I finally called the local mosque after hearing the FL nut case talking about burning Korans. I've been invited to worship with them and plan to go next Friday. I'm sure it will be a leaning experience for me and will hopefully help foster understanding in some small way. Experience has taught me that those "other" people are always less scary once you get to know them. I'll post results of how this goes. Peace to all! Good to be back!

Tphokie. I think that is a very important point you are touching on-it's easier to be afraid of Muslims (or any other people) when you don't actually know any. I have been fortunate enough to have fact to face conversations, and also friends from Morocco, Tunisia, Egypt, Bosnia, Turkey, and a muslim minority refugee from Montenegro. A wide range of people from different places who practise Islam. More importantly, thank goodness, so have my children. I could tell stories from heartbreaking to hilarious that happened amongst us-the same as happens during any other interaction between human beings. ********************************** By trying we can easily learn to endure adversity -- another man's I mean. Mark Twain

tphokie1......that's something we should all do more often...from politics to everyday life, extend a hand!!...I wish more people would understand that WE are ALL "those other people".

That will be a learning experience for sure tphokie! I may not overly enjoy by job but I will say that where I work it is very ethnically, culturaly and religiously diverse. By mingling with these diversities over the past decade I have learned a lot about tolerance and even acceptance of others' beliefs. I may not totally buy into what they are saying but I at least respect their views. "The dire wolf collects his due while the boys sing round the fire"

But to do something with the express intent of hurting someone just smacks of meanness to me. There must be a way to get ones point across intelligently and courteously.

To clarify my position on free speech: "When push comes to shove" (as someone once said) I would actually defend the nut in FL's right to burn the Koran. Losing free speech is very frightening to me as well. I am just saying that when people exercise their free speech it would be in everyone's best interest if they did it responsibly. Regardless of what I feel, the government may at some point decide to restrict speech they consider dangerous. Its been done in the past, usually when we are at war, and it is a scary place to go. Many people have expressed their feelings about Muslims, the ground zero mosque etc. in ways that haven't had the government threatening to step in! I'm urging the pastor in FL to moderate his own speech but will resist any effort by the government to stop him.

exactly what I was trying to say!!

ALL radical fringes, EVERYWHERE..... take that advice.....though, of course, it won't be right away.....darn it

I stepped into the lounge at my former place of employment for a cup of coffee. The TV was on and I glanced over to see the image of a burning tower, and watched in horror as the second plane center-punched the other building.....forever burned into my memory.... My eyes are filling with tears as I type this.....when will we learn.....we humans cause each other such pain...daily, hourly......when will we learn.......

I was watching a fascinating documentary about the Bishnois, in what is now Rajastan. In 1485 their Guru told them they must protect trees and all living things, and the group has followed his teachings religiously to this day. In modern times they are active against poachers and tree-cutters, and they have a wildlife preservation territory; where they house wounded animals until they are healed enough to return to the wild. This was a very rousing and inspiring documentary, and completely new information to me, so I thought I would share it with y'all. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bishnois ********************************** By trying we can easily learn to endure adversity -- another man's I mean. Mark Twain

God be with their familes.....Peace- Moye

they will always live in our memories

I support that 100% Gonz, and put my butt on the line for 20 years in defense of that. I swore an oath to defend the Constitution, an oath that can never be rescinded......but I can dream........'scuse me while i have another Nutter Butter Peanut Butter sandwich cookie