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    marye
    Joined:
    May 26, 2007
    Here and there in the forums people are expressing their enthusiasm for particular candidates in the upcoming U.S. elections, while others are saying Enough Already, We Don't Want To Hear About It. So, this is the right place to discuss your favorites (or non-favorites) and other matters relevant to the campaign. If you're not into it, skip this topic! And as for all you non-U.S. residents, if you want a similar topic for what's going on in your part of the world, speak up and I'll start it. Thanks!

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  • June 22, 2009 - 5:45am
    TigerLilly
    Joined:
    July 2, 2007
    I wanna care
    DannyC. Reread your post from October, and the responses to it. Why'd you ask me in particular? Can you be more specific about your insight into how Deadheads really think?********************************** Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society. Mark Twain
  • June 21, 2009 - 9:23pm
    DannyC.
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    Hey wow.
    Hey wow. I've been meditating on my previous post to the message board last October. The result is, after I've been labeled as meanspirited and paranoid, probably called a few other things, this darkstar isnt putting anymore energy into shows around here and hasnt been. Who cares? Does it really matter? No, do you care? I dont care. Does anyone care. Tigerlily, do you wanna care about any of this? The replies I got were an insight as to how deadheads can really think,feel, act and can be ,generally, towards anyone they are talking with,It doesnt seem to matter who people are. Thats just a heads up.Why should I put any energy into this, when people are like that? The same as anywhere else.Which is what I wanted to say in the first place. I'm not supporting any of this. Who cares. Thats my peace.
  • December 22, 2008 - 9:16am
    marye
    Joined:
    May 26, 2007
    brilliant, Mr. P!
    a classic...
  • December 21, 2008 - 9:10pm
    Mr. Pid
    Joined:
    December 22, 2007
    Dead Horses?
    Post vote whining is easy to doBut the pols are elected, and chosen by you McCain and Obama, they dealt different hands The counting's all over, you know where it stands Dead horses, they just won't go away Dead, dead horses, just won't go away I see that some aren't pleased how it went Now they've decided they still need to vent No calm acceptance of the new status quo It might just be better to just let it go Dead horses, they just won't go away Dead, dead horses, just won't go away I know we all dreamed the best for our guy But only one wins. I'm sure you know why. The choice has been made. It's time to move on. Let's just be happy the last clowns are gone. Dead horses, they just won't go away Dead, dead horses, they'll quiet someday. Dead horses, they just won't go away Dead, dead horses, they'll quiet someday. Conversation is always more interesting than recitation, so speak your mind and not someone else's.
  • December 21, 2008 - 8:25pm
    Gypsy Cowgirl
    Joined:
    August 14, 2007
    Dead Horses
    Yay Oroboros-you did very well......but I'm glad that grdaed73 agrees w/ me....this forum has to die.....it's like trying to revive a Dead Horse....well, like Marye says above......I'll just skip over it & be on my merry way! xoxox Gypsy Cowgirl
  • December 21, 2008 - 1:46pm
    johnman
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    December 26, 2007
    gosh, marye
    why do you insist on making sense?
  • December 21, 2008 - 1:02pm
    marye
    Joined:
    May 26, 2007
    freezing this topic
    frankly, I'm reluctant to freeze a topic people still want to talk in, particularly when they do so as well as Oroboros just did. I would say, rather, as it says in the topic header, that if you're not into this topic, just let it go by. Thanks!
  • December 21, 2008 - 12:58pm
    johnman
    Joined:
    December 26, 2007
    heehee
    bill clinton, attilla the hun, and st. christopher walk into a bar.........
  • December 21, 2008 - 8:20am
    pkpotter
    Joined:
    June 7, 2007
    Very wise words indeed
    A beautiful and eloquent post, Oroboros. Those ideals that you layed out are what makes our country, America, a great country and an inspiration to much of the world. I believe you are expressing the hope and dreams the founding fathers put in motion. America is a work in progress. And the foundation must be strong, as I believe it is, and we must build upon those ideals, and work together to shape this country in order to form a more perfect union. We must unite and realize we are one people, and reach out to each other to both teach and learn, and then we will all grow, and the country will grow. If you look at the ideals that Oroboros has talked about here, as he said, we are really all in agreement, so the foundation is there. So let's all work together to build America into a better place brick by brick. I am happy that we have a leader that has assembled a staff that is from all sides of the spectrum in order to form a more perfect union.
  • December 21, 2008 - 5:19am
    TigerLilly
    Joined:
    July 2, 2007
    Absolutely brilliant
    post, Oroboros! Fine piece indeed.********************************** Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone, you will still exist, but you have ceased to live. Samuel Clemens
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Here and there in the forums people are expressing their enthusiasm for particular candidates in the upcoming U.S. elections, while others are saying Enough Already, We Don't Want To Hear About It. So, this is the right place to discuss your favorites (or non-favorites) and other matters relevant to the campaign. If you're not into it, skip this topic! And as for all you non-U.S. residents, if you want a similar topic for what's going on in your part of the world, speak up and I'll start it. Thanks!

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I appreciate the efforts of Marye at Dead.net to make a little room here for politics. As I was saying earlier, to me the Grateful Dead culture that I have loved being a part of for many years has historically been interested in politics and the environment. The music and the Family is my passion; but being politically active is protection of my freedom of expression. Freedom ain't free. I love to be carefree but folks we have to always keep one eye on The Man! I hear alot of negativity from Heads that choose to be complacent politically because "all politicians are crooked and nothings going to change anyway". But I feel complacency has made the world a worse place because we allowed the Bush Administration to slide into power. As Deadheads we were given a gift to make the world a better place. We spread joy. None of the candidates for president this year are perfect; but we must pick the lesser of two evils. Nobody showed up to vote in 2004 and the world is a much sadder place because of that. Turn on your love light this year and just vote for who you feel is best. Right now I feel Barack Obama is our best choice to make the world a better place. I often think about how I can help make the world a better place. I'm not pretending to know all the answers but I'm just doing my best. Last year I started an internet group "Deadheads for Obama" located at: DeadheadsForObama@groups.barackobama.com I'm trying to show Barack that the Dead Community is interested in peace, logic, and compassion like he is. Who knows, our support might earn us a wink and nod in the future! Thanks again and may you have a safe and happy new year.
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Keep that spirit of positive change alive, don't let the complacent folks get to you. However I take issue with two things that you wrote. "we allowed the Bush Administration to slide into power" and "Nobody showed up to vote in 2004". Please no absolutes. I did not empower or allow the Bush Administration, I fought it and still do and I voted in 2004 just as I have every other year since I was 18. Peace. The future will be much brighter when these puppets of the the multinational corporations have been shown the back door to exit. If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is, infinite. William Blake
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I am very pleased with last night’s results. I look forward to a time when I can not only stand to sit through a presidential speech, but I look forward to hearing some intellectually inspiring rhetoric. Now that I have had time to analyze what each candidate has to give, I feel kind of relieved. Hillary - Although I like Hillary overall, I have not been able to get past her abysmal voting record over the last couple of years. I am happy that if the nomination follows suit, the Republican witch hunt will be headed off before it begins. I still feel like her experience as first lady is invaluable. Her experience with healthcare reform was doomed to failure due to the short time line and unsupportive Republican Congress at the time. She has a ton of international diplomatic experience. Besides I get the warm and fuzzys when I think about Bill being back in the White House. Edwards – I like Edwards. He is the only candidate who has focused on the poor. As much as the media painted it the other way, I feel like he did an excellent job in the debates with Cheney in ’04. Obama – I have loved Obama since his speech at the Democratic Convention. He is definitely the face of change. He is black with a very young family. He is not corrupted by decades in politics. I am very curious who he would choose as his running mate should he win. Hillary is from a Blue state (No gain in votes), Edwards would be good but I don’t know if he would go second fiddle this time around, but my choice would be either Richardson or Biden or possibly a third party person like Bloomberg or McCain if he switched over (although he will probably die of old age soon) On a more serious note, a coleague at work wrote: " I was too young to vote for Jack Kennedy, but was for Bobby and was devastated when he was assassinated. When I heard Obama at the Democratic Convention, and have listened to him since then, I knew he was the right candidate at the right time. I’m pleased." This lead me to the following thoughts: "Knock on wood, Obama is inspirational enough to meet the same fate as Bobby, John and MLK. I hope I am wrong about that. Thankfully, I think we are in a different time now, although Bush and his cronies have tried their best to recreate the same tumultuous direction for our society. (I can’t help having an ominous feeling in my gut when I think of all the correlations – Vietnam – Iraq, Bush Crimes – Nixon Crimes, Assaults on our civil liberties, The speaking styles of MLK and Obama, the controlling of dissenting voices at the conventions [Free speech zones vs Miami Riots] The expiration of the assault weapons ban , etc, etc) I truly feel like the main reason there has not been civil disobedience this time around is the technology of today. People are able to express themselves and connect with other equally frustrated people enough through the internet that it is hard to let it bubble over in large gatherings where that is the only way to let your voice be heard. Anyway, I feel like our country has been in a state of Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome with the war, 9/11 and the last two presidential elections. That is part of the reason I get so outspoken some times. I want to get it all out there now so I can get beyond it in November." Peace
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Living right across the Big River from that political hotbed of Iowa, I have already been bombarded with more TV ads and news in the local papers than I can shake a 'hanging chad' at. Wake me when it's over......On the other hand, I'm a regular dude. I work an avg of 65 hrs a week and I kick ass at a job that I enjoy more than I dread. My hard work this year made me more than I needed to make, but I am by NO means a rich guy. I'm not sure which candidate speaks to me. The righties are too preoccupied with religion for me to take seriously most of the time while the lefties want to create a system of wealth redistribution that punishes hard work and smells of socialism. This two party system leaves little room for choice. I'm into personal responsibility, good decision making and enjoying life, I'm not sure which party is for me. The funny thing is, if JFK were running for president in '08, he would probably be a republican. His job is to shed light, not to master...
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A few years ago I was sitting with my son in a diner having breakfast somewhere in N California. A dude from another table comes over. He is middle aged, pencil thin, black jeans, white shirt, bootlace tie 'Say you folks ain't from round here, what kind of accent is that?' 'We're from England' Pause 'You got socialists over there doncha?' 'Yep' 'You one of them?' 'I suppose I am' 'Huh. Well you folks take care now' ' Dude walks back to his table and just sits and stares continually and evilly at us. We pay the bill, run for the car and drive for the next 100 miles checking the mirrors regularly!
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You made me smile at 7:30 this morning, while still groggy (am up because my son has a soccer tournament today). Has been a while since had a chuckle from reading one of your posts. Thanx!!!!!!!! ********************************** Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone, you will still exist, but you have ceased to live. Samuel Clemens
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They all say what they think you want to hear! Bob - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Spanish Jam
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There is an absolute difference between saying for whom someone would vote, in an election and an endorsement. Needless to say, when one hitches their wagon to a political pony, for whatever reason, that line is no longer blurred. In this instance, jerry_garcia71 seems to be here for the sole purpose of political advertisement. Furthermore, I feel the wording of the two posts I've read, by this person, insinuates by saying, "the Dead community..." that you speak for me, which you do not. Equally grating is the notion that you speak on behalf of Mr. Obama ("our support might earn us a wink and nod in the future!"). Comments such as these, won't earn any endearment from me. If you were to speak about music, ANY MUSIC, I'd at least feel some endearment to you regardless of political affiliation, which I do not. This fact, in no way makes me happy. If you really believe in your candidate as a person that will commit to changing the social stagnation, in this country, brought on by decades of partisan pissing contests and an "all you can take" buffet mentality by the duelopoly system of political sharing when it comes to tax money, why not come here and ask about the things that we care about, instead of grandstanding? I've seen my share of political climates in this country come and go, but what I haven't seen is a politician that will really listen to the working class. Tom Wolfe said he was never interested in covering American politics because no matter who gets elected, "The American political system is like a train - it stays on the same tracks, no matter who's driving." In other words, the real issues are never allowed to be talked about, in an open forum. That notion isn't complicity btw, it's reality and one needn't be an elected official to help start change along those lines, unless they haven't any other "day job". Eventually, no matter who wins an election, any election, reality will replace fantasy and then... "There's just the payment left and broken dreams."
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If I had to vote right now, he would be my MAN. I'm not quite ready for a female president, sorry ladies. I don't feel that foreign leaders would respect a female president. I'm done with the whole republican leadership. TIME FOR A CHANGE!!!

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I'm sorry that I got you in such a tizzy! First I spoke about music and the Family being my passion but you must have misunderstood that. I have been enjoying this website for ten years as jerry_garcia71 but when I speak up to people that I care about how I feel, I am somehow deemed unworthy and under attack. It is terribly sad that you have no hope that nothing will ever change and you have no affect on the world. Let me share a little nugget with you about a Deadhead I met at RFK Stadium one summer at a show: He had hope, he thought that he could help the world. He was optimistic and wasn't ready to surrender. He was elected Vice President of the United States for 8 years and later won the popular vote to be our President. He has recently won the Nobel Peace Prize because he is currently engaging world environmental policy and trying to save the health of our planet. Yes, Al Gore is driving that train that you GRTUD are content to be a passenger on.
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What about my post indicated a tizzy? I think you're a spammer for a politican, plain and simple. The idea of you being a fan of the Grateful Dead is what I'd try to prove, it I were you. This isn't a political web site. Why am I wrong? "If the forms of this world die, which is more real, the me that dies or the me that's infinite? Can I trust my habitual mind, or do I need to learn to look beneath those things?"

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You got the words wrong for Stella Blue in the last sentence of your rant.
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Now that's what I'm talking about! Keep that attitude up and we can have a dialogue, about music anyway. "If the forms of this world die, which is more real, the me that dies or the me that's infinite? Can I trust my habitual mind, or do I need to learn to look beneath those things?"
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It was only one WORD. "If the forms of this world die, which is more real, the me that dies or the me that's infinite? Can I trust my habitual mind, or do I need to learn to look beneath those things?"
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being a registered Democrat and all, I hope for an Obama-Edwards ticket. Obama's got the charisma, Edwards has the track record of working for real people, and if he got rich doing it, so what? I don't like Hillary at all because I think she's pretty much got the same ethics as her husband, which is to say none at all, however much the Clinton administration looks like a golden age in comparison with the present. Has nothing to do with her being female, has to do with not being able to trust a word she says. In my opinion of course. Now if Ron Paul's on the ballot I'm going to have a crisis, because while we certainly disagree on some matters (immigration being at the top of the list), he's probably the closest to what I'd like to see: no arrogant attempts to run the world, no arrogant attempts to run people's lives, ending the War on Some Drugs, etc. I think all three of these dudes are decent, ethical and smart, and wish them well.
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I've been checking out Ron Paul...trying to find out more about him and what he is all about!
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in the current issue of Reason mag (the Libertarian magazine, which one of my pals buys us all subscriptions to and lately I've actually been reading). If it runs true to form it'll be online in about a month.
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While Ron Paul seems appealing from a Constitutionalist point of view, that is the end of his appeal to me. He is completely against government and wants to disband the government as we know it. Believe it or not, our government does play a very necessary role in our society. Our government has been demonized by conservatives and this has lead to the privatization of too many services including our military. The infrastructure that our parents and grandparents built is crumbling beneath us. The fact of the matter is, the demands on our infrastructure has more than doubled with our boom in population. Rather than cutting programs which strenghten us, we should be looking at programs resembling "The New Deal" rather than privatizing these services. Also, services such as police and fire protection should be available to all citizens regardless of one's income. Peace
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I probably lean more towards Edwards than Obama, however this is such a giant signal that an African American can win in a state that is overwhelmingly white. It makes me proud to be from Iowa (as well as several other Midwest states). There is a change in our country folks, I breathe a sigh of relief, I know there is still racism but it is not to the extent of our parent’s world. In the area I live now (the Inland Northwest) we actually had a Nazi compound in our midst in North Idaho and it is now gone and the leader is dead and these folks have scattered. I am so glad this is gone; it was such a bad reflection on our area. Though the world will never be just exactly perfect at least we are a bit closer to Martin Luther King's "I Have A Dream" If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is, infinite. William Blake
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With all do respect Hal, I believe that Blacks are far more racist than Whites. We as a people are doing everything to make there life easier, and we don't ask for anything but respect in return. I am a bit old school in my beliefs, but as far as being an AMERICAN, I believe we need to start treating each other as equals. Giving to the poor, I belive just enables them to be poorer. Earn your living , it actually feels pretty good! Just my humble opinion.
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That's not a popular view in these parts. You start talkin' about earning your own way, personal responsibility and not wanting the government to hold your hand, and you're looking to upset alot of folks around here. Give a man a fish, he eats for a day - TEACH him to fish, he eats for a lifetime. It's always interesting and a bit sad how divisive political talk can be. It seems curious to me that a site deadicated to something as positive as the GD, with everyone here drawn together by the MUSIC, would even have have a political debate topic. I used to look forward to the shows because there was no politics, no skin color, etc..., just MUSIC. The shows and tours were an oasis from the BS. I know - I don't have to read it if I don't want to - this is just an observation. I tend to agree with the train comparison, that the train rolls on the same tracks no matter who is wearing the Casey hat. Watch yer speed! His job is to shed light, not to master...
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hmm this could get interesting just remember “Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish, and he will sit in the boat and drink beer all day.” :-)
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Steve -O. I work in a non-profit health agency and much of our clientele is poor, working and non-working. What I generally see is that there are more benefits for the unemployed or unemployable than for the working poor. I see families trying to dig themselves out of economic despair and lose benefits from the government when they go to work and then have to spend a large portion of income on insurance or go without. I would like our society to provide more protection and incentive for the working poor. That is why I am for universal health care for all in this country. I know it is socialistic, so I guess I am on this point. Medical costs for all of us have gone up in the past years with much of the privatization of the medical industry and non-profits becoming for profit and the rise of a whole batch of high paid legitimate scoundrels with masters degrees in Hospital Administration and business who cut jobs of lab technicians, nurses etc. and then give themselves a raise for doing so. Health care in this country has to change. If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is, infinite. William Blake
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IMO, Wolfe DID cover American politics - with one sentiment. If that makes me a pessimist, then I guess I have to accept that label. The reason I don't see any hope for American politics is illuminated by the plain fact that I still don't hear anyone, from any of the camps of front runners for office of presidency, asking for ideas to solve our current range of social and economic problems. In addition, those folks and businesses that will be hurt the most financially, in terms of lost income, and profits, if we follow the current trends and policies, also stand to gain the most from any solutions we find in the future. I've often said that in America (I can't speak for anywhere else) greed exists from the very poor to the very rich, in terms of mentality and I suppose the same applies to ignorance. Strike one! "Smokey, you're entering a world of pain... a world of PAIN!" "Ask not what your country can do for you, but rather, what you can do for your country!" Now that's "liberalism" folks! Or is it? My idea is that we've not seen true "liberalism" since JFK nor real "conservative" leadership since George H W Bush (# 41), which is ironic on many levels. Presidents Carter, Regan, Bush (41) and Clinton all have worked to achieve line item veto for the office of presidency, on a bipartisan basis, which was achieved then ultimately found unconstitutional by the Supreme Court (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line-item_veto). Imo, this was the last hope for fiscal conservatism in the federal government. It certainly dashed the idea that voting for one person could have the effect most voters fantasize. Strike two! "Am I the only one who cares about the rules?" For the record folks, I'm not saying to NOT vote for Obama or anyone else, for that matter. I've said how and for whom I'd vote, given the circumstances, in another thread here @ dead.net but I'm not endorsing any politician, ever. I feel totally betrayed by both parties, at this point in time, and I would encourage the idea of abolishing the political party system, altogether. The Constitution exists to uphold balance in government, not to be used as a weapon against opponents, or to inhibit necessary and positive change by the "opposition party", while problems fester that could be solved or abated, at the very least. Health care is a HUGE issue in this country. Why can't we deduct all of our health care expenses from our taxes, when we complete our returns each year? The current tax law, in this regard, requires a person to spend 7 % of their income on health care BEFORE they can begin to deduct those expenses. WHY? This is simply an outdated law that needs to be changed, NOW. Talk about an incentive for working poor... OK, one problem solved. NEXT! "Am I wrong?" (Casey puts on his engineer's hat... and picks up a baseball bat.) "Will you just take it easy... man." "...calmer than you are..." (Casey walks towards home plate) As a change of pace to this thread, I say we think of "fantasy" politicians we'd love to run the country as President. At this point, I'm leaning toward Lesh/Molo in '08! "You're not wrong Walter, you're just an asshole!"
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Points well taken!! I am not into politics, alls I know is that the wife and I work way to hard to be going backwards. Corporate greed, and the downright lazy are running this country and it's time for change. That's all I'm saying!!!!
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Hal, I completely agree that the heathcare system needs a very fundamental overhaul. My great grandfather was a country doctor in central Maine, one of the only doctors in the county. When people in need called him, he would come and tend to them. If they couldn't pay in cash, then they would offer what they could. Pigs, eggs, potatoes, firewood, maple syrup, lobsters, whatever. And if they truly had nothing, well, that was fine too. They'd square up as best they could when things were going better for them. And how did that approach work out for him? Well, my parent's generation is still reinvesting his money, and I suspect that one day I will be doing so as well. So what's changed between then and now? The prevalence of insurance. The basic problem with creating large pools of available capital as the fundamental revenue model in a business system is that the focus of the business changes from effectively delivering the product to effectively extracting the revenue. And healthcare, like it or lump it, is a business system. I believe that by permanently embedding the insurance based revenue model, by means of a universal and mandatory government administrated system, that this problem will only be exacerbated. Instead, I think it makes more sense to have employer provided health care benefits liquidated and distributed into employee owned and controlled health care accounts. People should also be able to contribute to those accounts directly themselves. Gains earned on those accounts should be able to accumulate without tax liability. Disbursements from those accounts should be made only to registered health care providers. Accounts should only be transferable to another upon the death of the account owner, free of tax consequence. And the amount a person has in their account should not be the only source of payment available to the providers. A person in need of service who claims hardship or inability to pay should have to be prepared to be very transparent about the truth of their economic circumstances. Likewise, providers should not be able to deny reasonably necessary services to a person based on their ability to pay in a timely fashion, or at all. By decentralizing the revenue source available to the healthcare industry, it will refocus the business back towards the provisioning of the services rather than the efficiency in collecting the payment for those services. It will also reintroduce the notion of competition in delivering those services. Perhaps it's just me, but I happen to believe quite strongly in the power of markets. A marketplace is a brutally efficient and effective means of discovering relative value. They are the ultimate democracy. If something offered in a marketplace doesn't appear to be a value to you, you are free to not buy it. As far as I'm concerned, markets are the third most powerful force in the universe. As a concept, they've been around for a very long time. And that's because they work. I think they should be put to work to solve this particular issue. Conversation is always more interesting than recitation, so speak your mind and not someone else's.
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Where was I during Gov't/Economics Class back in Highschool?Maybe I didn't pay enough attention back then, but I just don't get the Electoral College. What's the point of MY vote, with this system in place? To get into the higher ups of politics, it seems to me you'd have to be shady somewhere along the line, but damn, I'd vote for the lesser of the evils if I thought it counted. A good number of people in my state- SC- don't have the same views as myself- which is fine and most of our elected officals act like "good ol' boys", so should I even try to find out about Platforms? * and the whole world full of petty wars singing I got mine & you got yours while the current fashions set the pace loose your step, fall out of grace the radical he rants & rage(raves?) singing someone got to turn the page the rich man in his summer home singing just leave well enough alone but his pants are down, his cover's blown & the politicians throwing stones so the kids they dance & shake their bones 'cause it's all too clear we're on our own...... Picture a bright blue ball spinning spinning free... * * Sorry If I was rude '71, I find it gets me nowhere in life PEACE
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The only way that anything that has been discussed here will change, is if more of the population gets involved and vote. The good news is that there was a record turnout in Iowa, with more young people getting involved in the process. My daughter is turning 18 soon and is eligble to vote in this election. I was very encouraged while talking with her and some of her friends, that they are all planning on voting, and they actually are talking about it! There seems to be many intelligent and positive voices on here. Don't be afraid to put your ideas out there in other mediums. This country is ready for change. Finally, now that I live in Florida, I found a way to try and make a difference. I sighned up to be a poll worker. I thought that since I still had some brain cells left, I could help prevent another debacle like in 2000. Thanks
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the only 'higher' education I ever had was when I went to Psychotic State University for half a semester. and I even flunked out of that... ) -; http://people.howstuffworks.com/electoral-college1.htm http://www.howstuffworks.com/electoral-college.htm check these (and other links) out. but my take on the whole system is that the founding father's and the framers and writers of the constitution, basically didn't trust the masses. so if-- for example, a nutter like CCj somehow got enough popular votes, he would not actually get to be president because the other politicians (senators and house members) can still decide who they will vote for in the electoral college regardless of what the popular vote in that state was. so, heavily populated states like Cali, for the same reason they have more house members because they have a higher population (every state has 2 senators regardless of population) they have more electoral votes. is this fair? another debate. we all saw what happened with the Florida fuck-up and the other bullshit. when Bobby did his 'register to vote' raps on The Dead tour, I remember him saying stuff like "if every deadhead had voted in Florida..." oh, hey, for the dude who met Al Gore at a show, what year roughly? what was the way the conversation went? he actually said he wanted to be 'Vice' president? what was he wearing? was he already involved in politics? did he inhale? ( -: peace.
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This is an interesting thread. The beauty about politics is that everyone has a choice and everyone wants everyone else to vote for their choice, Gotta love it. Now, this nation is in dire need of universal health care. Also, this country needs to shore up it's borders and keep jobs here in the country instead of outsourcing. Greed--both corporate and personal--has ruined this country. I, for one, have a very good job, with benefits and a pension to boot, I earn a very good wage which enables me to provide for my family. My life views have changed as I have gotten older and I do not want to be taxed more in order to provide for others. That is how universal health care will work. That all being said, whomever is the Democratic nominee will be receiving my vote in November. I do believe that both parties have forgotten the common man, but I can live with Obama, Edwards, or Clinton.
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Well now, half a semester is better than none:-) I appreciate your well put points & I will check out your links ( although I'm afraid I know how it will turn out) As you said" another debate". Would you say banter and debate are the same?! he he he My question for the dude who met Gore would be, was he singing to the music?? You are a trip PEACE
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I know I'd certainly be amused to hear more about the Gore encounter, especially as to when it occurred. I'll bet that some of us here remember the 80's. How many of us remember that in the 80's something that was called the Parents Music Resource Center was brought into being? I fondly recall Frank Zappa characterizing the group's efforts in a Congressional hearing as "just another instant pudding whipped up by the wives of Big Brother." I resort to repeating him here because I couldn't have said it better myself, and apologize for violating my own admonition. And who was the principal champion of the PMRC? That wouldn't have been Tipper Gore now, would it? Hmmm.... As for the electoral college and mistrust of the masses, that mistrust was borne out of perceived consequence of a more fundamental issue rather than simple elitism. That fundamental issue had to do with the very nature of how power was going to be structured in the country. Were we going to be a sovereign nation of confederated states, or a confederated nation of sovereign states? Those in the latter camp are usually thought of as proponents of "State's Rights." In certain times, places and issues, this debate continues to this very day. The "mistrust of the masses" by those in the States Rights camp was that rabble-rousers from other states, foreigners if you will, might show up in their states mucking about where they had no business. And each state, as a sovereign entity, should have the right to align itself with whatever candidate it saw fit. And that's why all of a states electoral votes go to a single candidate. The fact that the popular vote now drives the electoral vote within each state we all owe to Andrew Jackson and his cohort, because it didn't always work that way. Jackson, founder of the Democratic Party, despised politicians and did what he could to see that the voice of the people could have some chance against the cronyism of the political elite. What we ended up with obviously still isn't perfect, but it's better than it was. Jackson was a very odd duck, and worth further investigation beyond noticing that his visage graces our $20 bills before they are taken, vanishing in the air. In an ironic twist, the historical flag waver for the State's Rights camp has always been iknowurider's home state of South Carolina. For further detail on that, see the year 1861. Conversation is always more interesting than recitation, so speak your mind and not someone else's.
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one of my pals forwarded the link to this survey, which ostensibly tells you which candidates are most closely aligned with your views. It stands as a testament to my outsider views that my top two were Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich! http://www.wqad.com/Global/link.asp?L=259460
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I followed the above link. My top was Dennis Kucinich and I know nothing about him at all. Very interesting. I'm not saying that's who I'd vote for, but it's alot to ponder. Thank You kindly PEACE
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Marye-- Just did the canidate survey and the results were that Giuliani is my guy. He scored a 49 followed by Biden, whom I've always liked, Kucinich, Obama, and Richardson. They each scored a 45. The end result for me is that I need to reassess my ideals and values. Greed has hurt this nation, however, this nation's fair market place is based on greed. It's funny because all my extra money goes to funding my children's education and I do not overspend on major items like a car. Well, at least Rudy is a Yankee fan.
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thanks, iknowurider!! now I got THREE votes. u, me, and my mom. my old lady said she has no interest in being the First 'Old' Lady... ( -: peace.
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All smart candidates count themselves, so your on the right track! Can't say I blame your Lady a bit. Those uncomfortable outfits are too much for me. I don't think I can even walk in heels. Take it easy lovebirds :-)

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I saw Mr. Gore inside the show with his wife Tipper and a younger girl (or two?) and a couple adult men at RFK Stadium all groovin' the music. I'd have to say it was either June 25 or 26 1993. I forget which night. A lot of people were talking about seeing the Gores' that night. I started out in Vegas that summer and caught a ton of shows that year!
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oh, from your story, it seemed like you spoke to him. Did you? That was kind of the part I was interested in hearing bout. anyways, too bad you didn't get him to autograph your stub, that would have fetched a pretty good price on e-bay. My own personal brush with the politicos was back in 1976 or 77, (Carter days) when I puked INSIDE the White House. would you really like to hear the details of that story? I reckon only his brother Billy ever blew more cookies than I did on that fateful morning. all I know is I totally covered a nice set of marble stairs going down into some lower level with chunks. I was on the tourist tour, felt the lava rising (as it did so often in those hectic days) turned to a secret service security guy and said 'dude, you got a rest-room, I'm gonna puke' he unlocked a door, said there is a bathroom at the bottom of the stairs-- shucks, I didn't make it that far. projectile vomitus. ( -; have I reached 'celebrity status'? peace.
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and Hillary Clinton came up as my pick...don't think I'm doing that...I'm voting for CCJ too!! :)
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Though I shudder to think what might happen to him if he had that misadventure today.
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12 years 4 months
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CC Joe is my candidate of choice!********************************** Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone, you will still exist, but you have ceased to live. Samuel Clemens
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You had 3 votes, what are you up to now,6? Right on: "CCjoe Winning over one Dead Fan at a time" The Working Man's Prez I might retract my vote if you puked on me, I don't know about your other supporters! Although, I may have contributed to the "cause" to see you lose your lunch at the Whitehouse ~ he he
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I vote CCJoe as well (that's if Lesh/Molo don't make the Weird Ticket, of course). I just want one Saturday Night in the White House with all our folks here and let's just say, we won't be talkin' politics! GO CCJOE, GO! "If the forms of this world die, which is more real, the me that dies or the me that's infinite? Can I trust my habitual mind, or do I need to learn to look beneath those things?"
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thanks, thanks very much. I will be the people's candidate, and my secret service guys will wear tie dye's. (handshake handshake baby kiss handshake handshake wave handshake baby kiss handshake wave handshake) My campaign bus is in the process of being tuned up, and we will be on the road pretty soon. My slogan, quoted from Jerry Garcia is "everyone just try to be nice to each other, ok?" I really dug cosmic badger's story, about being labeled a socialist. hey, I'm social guy, too; but it always strikes me as ironic that people feel the need to 'label' things or people. why on earth shouldn't every American receive the best possible health care? why is this such an alien concept that the federal government to whom we are paying fucking taxes to will not take care of us when we need help? social security is along the same lines. it is sooo fucking pathetic that the money wasted on the war in Iraq could have helped people rather than kill them. ok, dont get me started on that shit. I realize some of my personal views are kind of simplistic, but in the community I love, people take care of people; and people think of either others or the community as a whole. It certainly looks like Obama will pull this off-- at least getting on the democratic ticket. it will be interesting to see what actually happens with the election... and I hate to even think this, but I greatly fear that even if Obama gets elected he will suffer the same fate as Martin, Bobby, etc... sorry, kids, but there is a realistic dark side to my paranoia and cynical views about this great land of ours and some of the people. OK, I take back my negative thoughts. positive vibes for everyone. just out of curiosity, does anyone here vote in primaries? peace.
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Not that anyone I vote for ever wins. I pretty much plan on voting for Edwards on grounds of agreeing with his substance and his record. I figure Barack will probably take California easily anyhow.
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Well I can't vote under the present arrangement, but it is a popular view in developing countries that everyone in the world should get a vote in the US elections, as we all have to live with the consequences! That way too CCJ could campaign on the beach in Thailand! Better than slogging around in the snow I'd say.
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Like many here I generally feel that at the top levels of government, especially president people are elected (or the elections stolen or bought or the people deceived) to serve the needs of the multinational corporations and not the American people. However I do know as an environmental activist that there are great differences in degrees as regards to how the laws regarding environmental protection are treated in different administrations. The current batch of Republicans seems to have little regard for other forms of life or ecosystems. It is almost as if they hate the natural world which gives us life. So I do participate in politics and I know that I have made a difference especially in the local arena. If you get involved in the local and your area isn't totally dominated by a political machine or old boy network change may happen. But maybe the real change happens at the top levels when the elected officials such as president are finally forced to respond to the changing paradigms of the people such as in the case of civil rights in the 50's and 60's. If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is, infinite. William Blake
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global vote? I do hear you on that. sure, as soon as you and everyone else starts paying US income taxes. ( -: LOL almost there, dude, almost there... and the lovely thing about the beach is the only vote will be whether to have pad si yu or pa ki mau or som tam or... a snack of sapporot. damn, my mouth is watering. I reckon most of this up-coming visit will be in the hot north east, though, doing our thing, not neccessarily doing "well", but always trying to do "good" did I make my campaign pledge of a free compost heap for every household if elected? one more thing, marye, about my White House puking mis-adventure; I was actually left un-escorted for about 15-20 minutes in that downstairs area. Now THAT would certainly never happen these days. Being a curious sort, I poked around a bit. I can not say for sure, but it is certainly possible that President Carter used Charmin to wipe his ass. image hosted by ImageVenue.com I was greatly dissapointed that they only had that pink shit powder soap like you used to have in high school and NO towels! Later, after I was all cleaned up, they were actually pretty cool about letting me take my time and wander around the rooms (Blue Room, etc) that I had not gotten to see, though naturally one of the suits led me around up there. All in all, a fine trip to our nation's capital. That said, I still prefered our tour of Graceland, (didn't puke there -- that would be sacrilege! and I would also like to point out that Elvis still gets plenty of votes as a write in candidate to keep my tangents and banter on topic in this thread. ( -:
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Have great time over there....