Here and there in the forums people are expressing their enthusiasm for particular candidates in the upcoming U.S. elections, while others are saying Enough Already, We Don't Want To Hear About It. So, this is the right place to discuss your favorites (or non-favorites) and other matters relevant to the campaign. If you're not into it, skip this topic! And as for all you non-U.S. residents, if you want a similar topic for what's going on in your part of the world, speak up and I'll start it. Thanks!
We have Muslims here. They are your fellow Heads. They are not "those people." Referring to Muslims or anyone else in such terms is not acceptable here. Don't do it. I say this as moderator.
Tell that to fhe victims of the spanish inquisition, the native peoples of many countries (including america) who were slaughtered in the name of Chist. I disagree in the stongest terms that you can make such sweeping statements about different religious groups. Within each group there are zealots of that are intolerant to the point of genocide towards people different than themselves. And intolerance is the least Christ-like thing I can think of. But it is amazing how perverted dogma is fostered by so many of various 'professed' faiths. Greg, I believe that there are great and true persons of ALL faiths and they are known by their works. Just as there are persons involved in all faiths who make the practice of their beliefs so venomus and toxic that their efforts poison the culture around them. And I have seen and read about both both the glory and abject horror of the practices of groups in ALL the faiths. Including Christianity. Does that mean that I should judge all christians by such works. If not, please don't paint all persons of other faiths (different than yoursand including Islam) as being identical to those that profess, but instead practice prejudice, hate, and carnage. Some facts expressed and much stated is my opinion. Take care.
Marye, I am aware of what you said, and will keep the tone down. In fact I've known some very nice Muslims in my day, and wouldn't trade them for the world. But there is a radical group out there, that should be differentiated from the more mainstream groups. And those I spoke of refer to more of the radical groups. So with that qualification in mind, what I spoke of them is true. So ... I guess I thought that with all of the swearing on these boards, it wouldn't be a big deal to state some facts. Sorry. Oroboros, The Spanish Inquisition was a State run Inquisition. There were many reasons for it. But the straw that broke the camel's back was the invasion of the Turks on the city of Oranto--where 12,000 people were killed and the rest made slaves. They killed every Catholic cleric, and even sawed the archbishop in two. So Isabella of Spain sent a fleet over to help the Italians. But eventually it became apparent that these Turks were capable of doing this to any coastal city, so the state sought out those people who claimed to have converted to Christianity (Catholicism), but really hadn’t. But those were different times. Greg SC
another one of "those" deadheads.... yikes! ( -; * "There's no need for you to be worrying about all 'those' people You never see 'those' people anyway I guess it doesn't matter anyway Well I guess it doesn't matter anyway" -- Dobson . "Like knowledge gained by second sight That strokes a well fed cat Pictures of my past fly by Like petals from a cloud There's just time to wonder why" -- Hunter peace.
and to view any group as somehow monolithic (or the same) is a crucial error and a linch-pin for errors of historic proportions. Take a look at the current situation as well as history. Various groups/fatihs have told themselves that they could hate other groups/faiths out of existance, threaten them, abuse them, terrorize them, or exterminate them. Even if everything they were doing went counter to the principles of their belief system. Watch out before you become what you detest. Mark Twain said "It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble, it is what you know for sure that ain't so."
griped so much about the Dead (or other musicians) supporting obama. This is interesting clip. http://e1.video.blip.tv/1040005601740/Tpmtv-ObamaRadioAdRalphStanley827… FYI-And if you don't know who Ralph Stanley is, he is the guy that Jerry Garcia was 'taping' at bluegrass festivals 'back in the day'. (No wonder Jerry got a kick out of us tapers!)
thanks man. cool link. definately a "clinch" in the Clinch Mountains for Obama with his support. Jerry definately loved tapers, since he was one, too. Though I can't ever really see Garcia dragging huge mic stands and reels through the rain and mud and trying to find the 'just exactly perfect' angle and position for the mic. I think he was more of a 'try to put it as close as possible to the musician' type of taper. ( -: http://www.morrispr.biz/releases/nr156.htm and Ralph ain't no sell out either, just 'cause Bush gave him an award a couple of years ago. (don't think the Prez. has the voting rights to decide that, not sure who decides who gets those awards.) National Humanities & Arts or whatever that 3 letter gov. agency is. http://drralphstanley.com/index.shtml I started loving bluegrass at about age 7 or 8. when I saw some bluegrass dudes play an assembly at school and started loving green grass (actually it was brown) by around age 9 or 10 or so when I... (ohhh, never mind....) and on tour by age 12. God Bless America!! My last serious comment about the up-coming election, please, if you live in a swing state, please, pretty please with sugar on top, even if you don't like Obama for 'any' reason, please hold your nose and pull that blue lever anyways. throwing more 'red' assed monkeys into the wrench is just going to be a barrel of grinding gears and nothing to laugh about. better dead than 'red' my 2 issues: Obama - says he will cut income tax for seniors earning less than 50 gees a year. McCaine would probably have the chance to appoint a right to lifer into the court. As I am personally the result of an un-wanted prgnancy, TRUST ME when I say, women need the right to choose. ( -: peace.
Last night's debate in St. Louis was rather entertaining. I was impressed with the demeanor of both candidates and their ability to not slam each other, too much. The moderator did not remind either speaker to answer the question asked, so listeners had to endure rhetoric not related to the question. ..." I can't wait much longer Melinda, the sun is getting high...."
The Grateful Dead scene never would have happened in a Muslim nation. It took a Christian perspective of limitless possibilities to seek the love and light that LSD teased us with. Thirty years ago the Dead went to the Middle East with plane loads of love. More recently Islam came to America with plane loads of death. "When people talk as if the Crusades were nothing more than an aggressive raid against Islam, they seem to forget in the strangest way that Islam itself was only an aggressive raid against the old and ordered civilization in these parts. I do not say it in mere hostility to the religion of Mahomet; I am fully conscious of many values and virtues in it; but certainly it was Islam that was the invasion and Christendom that was the thing invaded. "A good Moslem king was one who was strict in religion, valiant in battle, just in giving judgment among his people, but not one who had the slightest objection in international matters to removing his neighbour's landmark." G.K. Chesterton, 1911
I am old enough to remember how when JFK (philandering, gangster ties and all) was running for president and the cry was, "Booga booga! You can't vote for a CATHOLIC because he'll take his orders from ROME!!!" Whereas even the 12-year-old Catholic schoolchild I was at the time knew it didn't work that way. I am similarly embarrassed for my Muslim counterparts who are no more responsible for the excesses of their co-religionists than I am for the excesses of the IRA. Or Mary Tudor. Or the aforementioned Inquisition. Or, for that matter, a raft of pedophiles. Add that to the fact that when Christianity was the age Islam is now it was massacring people with gusto on numerous theology-related-and-power-driven pretexts, and I just don't have much tolerance for the mine's-better-than-yours attitude.
and highly relevant to all this. Thanks to jackadiamonds: Egypt On August 3rd, 2008 jackadiamonds said: Hamza El Din sang and played like an ancient Egyptian priest; the eclipse is coming! Hymns from the Book of the Coming Forth by Day - the doors are opening. The solo tar of Hamza is joined by the Abbysinnan Youth Orchestra and lo and behold, one by one, strange beatnick wandering sadhus start to filter onto the stage and melt into the beat with a melody so sublime that it must have been wept from heaven. Ollin Arrageed! The people of Giza and the surrounds were convinced that in some subtle unspoken way that these three concerts were the peace talks 'in practice' as i were. "Salam; Shalom - who cares we just want peace" said Hasan Al-Gabray as we listened to the radio broadcast in his house. Children ran across the desert by the Pyramids shouting "Grateful Dead, Tom Jones!" Tom Jones was, apparently, the only other 'western act' that they knew the name of. Surreal!
When moderate, peace-loving Muslim leaders step up and publicly denounce the actions of the jihad, they will convince me that they are serious about joining the "western act". Until then, I can only hope they exist. I wait, praying, and hear only crickets... Recall Blues for Allah... a song that recognizes the violence inherent in the so-called "Religion of Peace": "What good is spilling blood? It will not grow a thing "TASTE ETERNITY" the sword sings Blues for Allah" "…but out of the desert, from the dry places and the dreadful suns, come the cruel children of the lonely God; the real Unitarians who with scimitar in hand have laid waste the world. For it is not well for God to be alone." Chesterton
Gr8FulTed Glad you watched the debate last night. I found it very exciting. It is amazing how between Saturday Night Live, and the leftist media in this great land, they had everyone thinking that this woman was nothing more than the proverbial "dumb blonde." Well it was good to see how she went toe to toe with old Joe Biden, and outright won the debate. He looked like a typical Washington politician, while she came across as a sharp shooting Main Street bulldog. It was funny how this morning the "truthometer" on MSNBC found 10 of Joe's statements to be out riight "untruths" and seven "barely truthful." While most of her shots were right on, with some others being questionable. I hope that Mc-Palin wins next month, and then within a year or two, we have a "President" Palin, if old John's health doesn't hold up. Go Mc-Palin! Greg SC
I don't agree with you Greg SC but sincere thanks for getting us back on topic. I am on a steep learning curve here, getting used to the idea of right wing republican deadheads,but here you are and I am trying to understand. But adding religious bigotry to the mix is a bit too much for me to take in at one time. Maybe that could happen on some other clearly labelled forum and we could stick to the election here. Just a suggestion. Thanks for your consideration.
Have taken over the topic. We need to revive the spirits of Allen Ginsberg, Hunter Thompson and Ken Kesey in times like this. Let your freak flag fly. Blow away the dew. I think people must have escaped from the Ted Nugent site. If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is, infinite. William Blake
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. Hunter S. Thompson If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is, infinite. William Blake
America, how can I write a holy litany in your silly mood? Allen Ginsberg If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is, infinite. William Blake
If you're a Conservative, why aren't you behind conserving the land? Ken Kesey If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is, infinite. William Blake
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it. Voltaire and As long as people believe in absurdities they will continue to commit atrocities. Voltaire If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is, infinite. William Blake
My immediate impression of Sarah Palin, when McSame announced she was the running mate, was "holy smokes, that is the Flying Nun!!" Now that was a trippy TV show in the genre of other trippy TV shows like Gilligan's Island and I dream of Jeannie. What really dissapointed me about Palin in the debate, was here comment about waving the white flag of surrender in Iraq. That is quite the typical idiot, notion that wars can be 'won' in the old tradition of fights. The "say it ain't so, Joe" line was as predictable as the sunrise. "No, no, she can't take your mind and leave I know it's just another trick she's got up her sleeve I can't believe that she really wants you to die After all, it's more than enough to pay for your lie Wait a minute, watch what you're doing with your time All the endless ruins of the past must stay behind, yeah Well, can't you see that you're killing each other's soul You're both out in the streets and you got no place to go Your constant battles are getting to be a bore So go somewhere else and continue your cream puff war" -- Garcia trouble is, in the good o'l US of A, the booga booga shouters often talk louder than reasonable folk. In a lesser of two evils campaign, and in a basically 2 party system; it only makes me sigh that there are really only 2 choices for Prez. It would be nice if ALL of the politicos stopped wasting money on TV ads and such and used that money to help the people. I doubt I will live to see the day, though that day may come - thanks to technology and the ability to 'spread the word' faster and wider, that we have numerous choices who all have a reasonable chance of winning and the election became truly by the majority, not the electoral college system. When there are only two parties, you just gotta crash both. peace.
Thank you jackadiamonds! Beautiful post. Life is all about different cultures, tastes, smells,and feelings, varied textures of the soul. Take the most wonderful of each and that is the perfect world. Thanks marye for reposting this. peace,pk
Thanks, everyone! It is America, isn't it? But no, I think we stayed on topic ... but we certainly looked at the varied facets of politics. Anyway, I have never agreed with the Dead's take on politics, but have always loved the music. I know many Deadheads, and a lot have shifted their take on things over the years. I guess on an ideal level, the talk of utopia is great, but when the rubber hits the road, many of us have to pay bills, mortgages, car payments, etc. And these Democrats have been our worst enemies in terms of taking our money out of our pockets before we even get it. So, I really don't care what they have to say about the environment, because they do not really mean it. Hey, I recycle my cardboard, oil, plastic, etc., drive an old Geo that gets 40mpg, walk whenever I can do that instead of drive, ride a bike when the walk is too long, have 2 dogs, love them to death, say hi to people I pass. Hey, I may not vote with all of you guys, but I do more for the environment than that hypocrite Al Gore. I am sorry, but I cannot stomach the man. Obama is another one who is a real phony. He talks up a big storm, but will rob you blind once he gets into office. If you believe he is sincere, then check out his tax plan .... in it, he raises the rates on everyone at least 3 percent?? And I mean everyone. Of course he offsets some of the rate increases with tax credits, but why raise the rates at all if you want to give tax breaks?? I'll tell you why, it takes an act of congress to raise the rates, but only an executive order, or committee procedural vote to eliminate tax credits. And I'd say that within 3 years, all of the tax credits will just be eliminated, and all of us will get the tax shaft by this man. He is setting you all up. And you all must be prepared to swallow it, and say thank you. Later, guys, gotta make a payment on my son's college tuition ... Greg SC
Better to strive for a better planet, than dwell on questionable facts and negative personal emotions. Recycling is great and commendable, if the belief is it's for the enviornment, then wonderful, but it's a whole different league trying to change the planets direction. Why is this negative? Thinking of it all as a little community that is trying to be self sufficient....... Have to water each others gardens, walk all the dogs, share your food, share the care and wellfare of the children, learn together and share that knowledge, care for the elderly, and most importantly, love one another through trust and actions. Does this sound utopian? It is. That's the idea, a vision to strive for, a world to make. This really what we on this planet are doing, some is working ,some not. It is when the negative, non-trusting, us vs them aspect creeps in that we stall in our journey. Got to pick ourselves up and focus on the positive. Lift your neighbor up, don't judge. Walk their dog, share the food, open the mind. peace,pk
Republicans have been and still are liars and crooks. I recycle, too, by the way, while my Republican neighbors put out a bunch of trash. We don't have glass pick-up, so I go out of my way to visit a drop-off site in Missouri. Maybe you need to get out of South Carolina? Kansas is another red state, so being progressive is a tough call. I've paid college tuition for 2 sons and am waiting for my son in the Navy to become a civilian again, as he's tired of the bureaucracy and the mismanagement of the military over the past 8 years. He did his nuclear training in SC.Play some more Dead and maybe you'll come around. ...
i've said it before and i'll say it again......all politicians are backstabbing lying cheating no good money grubbing bloodsucking rotten untrustworthy useless bureaucratic pocket lining slime. or am i being too harsh?
I have met many people who are involved in politics and public office at the local level and they are doing the best that they can to help make their local communities a better place. They sure could make more money if they put their talents elsewhere. They do it for a higher calling. peace If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is, infinite. William Blake
Agree, it is something people do out of their hearts, not a greedy endeavor to get rich. Of course there are exceptions, but that is what they are, exceptions.
...and keep on posting. You are not alone. Check out "Crunchy Cons: How Birkenstocked Burkeans, Gun-Loving Organic Gardeners, Evangelical Free-Range Farmers, Hip Homeschooling Mamas, Right-Wing Nature Lovers, and Their Diverse Tribe of Countercultural Conservatives Plan to Save America (or At Least the Republican Party)" by Rod Dreher, Roll a fatty, Wave that flag Wave it wide and high, and remember: We're guilty of the same old thing Talking a lot about less and less And forgetting the love we bring. "The need for mystery is greater than the need for an answer." - Ken Kesey
Interesting article on John http://www.rollingstone.com/news/coverstory/make_believe_maverick_the_r…
I am kind of like Johnman, and really do not trust any of the poliicians. Yes, I do think there are a few good ones, but most are corrupted within a few years of being in federal office. It is sort of funny, I like pkpotters thoughts, but also we need to admit when we've gone wrong. I just had a laugh today on the internet, watching an apparent interview with Barney Frank and Bill OReilly. Here you have Frank, a Democrat, who since 2003, has roadblocked every piece of legislation whatsoever to regulate Fanny Mae, Freddie Mac, continually stating how Fanny and Freddie are "financially sound, and need no regulation," and, who, even as late as 5 months ago, said on public airwaves that Fanny and Freddie were not the best investments right now, but that were solid for the future. Many people then in invested in the stock, looking ahead, and lost millions of dollars. The crazy thing is this guy has the nerve to sit there and say how the financial train wreck had nothing to do with him, and that it was entirely the Republicans' fault. That is an outright lie, and this man should step down. The whole crisis was created by government, and is going to cost us all dearly. And if one were to assign blame, it would in my opinion mostly go to the Democrats, but many Republicans were with them, but these are all corrupt politicians who have cost us all our 401k's. They apparently do not know how important it is to turn to the American public and say, "I am at fault; I have failed you." Instead they sit there and blame the other party. These people are shameless. Before it is all said and done, names will be named, and I can guaranty you that more Democrats than Republicans will be on the list, and big names at that. So until I hear politicians like Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, Charles Shumer, Barbara Boxer, and the others admit they had a big hand in this recent crash, then they have no support from me. If they were honorable people, they'd have stepped down already, leaving the door open to more competent, and less corrupt candidates. And ... hey, maybe pkpotter should run. Sounds like I could vote for him, regardless of party. But anyway, I do help my neighbor, share what I have with others. See ya. Greg SC
"The task is, not so much to see what no one has yet seen; but to think what nobody has yet thought, about that which everybody sees. ." - Erwin Schrödinger
that's pretty much what i meant, tho you put it much more eloquently, greg. and hal you are correct but the crooks seem to outweigh the people with a purpose. it's not the ones at the local level that are the problem (mebbe cuz the feeding trough is so much smaller?) i just get so fed up with the blaming and finger pointing that periodically i 'splode (grumble,grumble) .....now....who wants to hear china cat and have a cookie?
Good ol GD China Cat and cookie mmmmmmmm
Obama. He'll win and it's about time. I'm 100% behind him and I believe he's truly about what's best for this country and us middle class citizens. Seeya in Happy Valley!!! ~ Pappy "Once in a while you can get shown the light in the strangest of places, if you look at it right." - Robert Hunter
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/23316912/makebelieve_maverick/pr… ...Some folks look for answers, others look for fights Some folks up in treetops, just look to see the sights... Great lyrics written by Robert Hunter and sung boldly by Bob Weir
Hey Ted, If I was thowing stones by posting that link, please forgive me. I guess i was surprised by the ammount of Pro -Republicans posting here. I am sure that some of my oldest friends are republican.Cool, they're still my friends. Certainly I agree that many incumbant Dems need to be voted out.Maybe most incumbents in the House and Senate, but I plan to cast one for Obama.I actually liked what Hillary said about what she would do in her first day of office, kind of extending her hand to the world in a diplomatic way. ...I don't trust in nothin' but I know it come out right.... Yippie Bill
Billdrumz, It certainly looks as if you are going to get your wish by voting for B.O. But I would say to anyone who votes for the man, to please, not complain when your taxes go through the roof. What you are experiencing here is typical Democrat election year tactics. They promise the world, then deliver nothing but tax increases so they can spend more of your money. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me! The man as I see it is a pure Chicago style politician: no substance, but great delivery; great promises, but they will be broken within 6 months ... and pure corruption will ensue. Show me one thing the man has ever accomplished in his career, besides raising taxes?? There is nothing. ACORN, the corrupt Democrat arm, full of corrupt voter registration scatterbrains, is as corrupt as it gets. They have registered some people 72 times. There is nothing right about winning an election by fraud. But then, Barack is a Chicago politician, where people rise from their graves to vote. I cannot believe the slack jawed people out there actually Do Not Give a Hoot. I hope you enjoy what you have sewn. Greg SC
Bush is gone. Time can't move fast enough!
Yes, the squeaky clean McCain camp should be far ahead of the sleazy Chicago man, by now, shouldn't they? Listen - many politicians make many promises. I get it. I fully expect Obama to NOT deliver on several promises. However, I do expect him to help turn this country in the RIGHT direction. I have no problem paying taxes. I do not think for one minute that my taxes will blow up and I'll be paying way more than ever. I'm already on the hook for $2300 per family member with this bailout, remember? That's not entirely an Obama thing. McCain helped, as did the rest of Congress...so, oh well. Obama is far and away the superior choice in this election. He has not resorted to outright lying, although he's stooped to McCain's level a couple of times (which p*ssed me off). He hasn't stooped quite AS low (the whole "teaching sex ed to Kindergartners" was about the lowest thing I ever saw a politician advertise & McCain should be very ashamed of running it). Barack has the biggest brain and I truly believe he believes in making this country a better place for everyone. I'd rather live in the world HE'S trying to create than to go & live like Ted Nugent forever or the world McCain & Palin want to create. Any day. That's my .02. ~ Pappy "Once in a while you can get shown the light in the strangest of places, if you look at it right." - Robert Hunter
God Bless Ya, Pappy. The days of Carter shall return. Greg SC
You sound hoodwinked, Greg. No offense. With all due respect, this man brings a bit more to the table than Jimmy Carter. Carter was a pushover w/ the American people and the government. I get a little more "backbone" feel outta Obama .... a LOT more, actually. ~ Pappy "Once in a while you can get shown the light in the strangest of places, if you look at it right." - Robert Hunter
Pappy, I might believe you if you said that Hillary has displayed and given off a feel of having "backbone," but Obama? I myself see the man as a pushover, and a hand-wringer. He has never once challenged the Democratic party on anything. He will be a rubber stamp for anything the Dems push across his desk. Greg SC
We'll see, Greg. Since he's gonna be elected, we will see. My guess is you're incorrect. The Dems pushed him for total national health-care (a la Hillary). His plan is better (still not perfect, but better - and better than McCain's, IMO). But, we will see. ~ Pappy "Once in a while you can get shown the light in the strangest of places, if you look at it right." - Robert Hunter
Hello, I'm Alex, from Italy..obviously I can't vote neither Obama nor McCain, but let me say, I read the newspapers and, since the U.S. are so influent in the world and there's more than a good link between your country and my country, I try to be well-informed about the candidates. Well, here in Italy we have this man Berlusconi holding the government (our system is a little bit different from yours, there is a President of the Republic too, a very good man) he (or members of his family) owns three or more tv channels, he has so many business and affairs and..lawsuits against him goin' on, and come from a coalition of parties very similar to your Republican party (and with some fascist ones inside). He is surrounded from this women Palin-kind, apparently very strong, decision-makers..lipstick in their hands..and very few thoughts in their minds! To me, a woman should bring something new in the world where you and me live, a new way of seeing things, not should be just an imitation of a (rude) man.. I think that there is a time for a new hope, new ways of being together in this world, I don't know if Obama will win but he seems to me the best option, at this time, better if he will work with some real clever women on his side and a real new way of acting in the foreign policy affairs.
'Wow; Italy! I just wanted to clear up the impression you have of Palin. The television networks here have painted her to be nothing more than a dumb-blonde. That is a farce. She is a sharp woman, with a good mind and can exercise quick decisive judgment. I myself would rather see a Palin-McCain ticket, rather than a McCain-Palin, but we have what we have. But something you probably miss being so far away, is that our government over here is about as corrupt as corrupt can be. And what we need at the moment is a no-nonsense team to clean and reform this political cesspool. As much as B.O. has rehearsed his lines, and sounds commanding at times, he is a wet noodle. What we need is a hard hitting team. And I think we have that in McCain-Palin. Lipstick aside, she is a solid woman. Greg SC
Saturday night Live has been showing some humorous political stunts, so check out Katie Couric's real interview w Gov. Palin to see how qualified she is on some of the issues. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/28/katie-courics-interview-w_n_12… The Rolling Stone article on Sen. McCain is an eye opener, too.
This actually came to me in an email from an old compadre @ GDTS.......if I screw it up, please ask CC's Back to do it......xoxox Gypsy Cowgirl www.michaelpalinforpresident.com My 1st video attempt is not working-so copy & paste into your browser, until I can convince CC to do it for me.....! Yee=Haw......xoxxox Gypsy Cowgirl
poke me with a soft cushion why don't you? youtube.com search for any vid. copy and paste the link marked embedded into your post. (apprears in the info are, to the right of the vid that is playing) Elementary my dear, Watson! easy as pie. peace.
no computer wiz, I. more of a Cheese Whiz I have modeled my character afte the personality of Cheese Whiz. ( -;