Grateful Dead

dead.net the official site

I already answered your question in my first post.

No I'm not uptight. Calling me uptight is a weak response from someone who just got caught with their hand down their pants.

So I'll ask the question. Why would you tell someone who gave a fair review that was 90% positive about a piece of music to go consult their local DeadBase after you spewed off some irrelevant numbers about a different box set? Being dismissive of a man who makes a valid point seems uptight to me. It's like you can't handle a little negative criticism about the Grateful Dead without launching a personal attack. But the irony is I was not being critical. If you had bothered to read my post, I explained very clearly why I thought there was repetitiveness in the set lists.

Four Winds, I could imagine it, it would sell out like The Europe 72 box sold out, in a flash! I would absolutely love it!

Someone asked about these. I just got a Marantz HD-CD1, and I'm enjoying it. But I'm not using the internal DAC from it; I run it into a Maverick Tube Magic D2 DAC, then to the receiver/amp. If you go to Crutchfield, most of the CD players under $400 are going to get the job done. Finding an Onkyo 7030 is likely a good option.

As someone mentioned, using a Blu-Ray player is a decent option, but if it's for a stereo set-up, then the Blu-Ray player can be difficult to set up without having a screen. And then you might pick up electrical noise from all the video circuitry, although usually there is an "Audio Only" option.

I know I shouldn’t participate in this absolute nonsense, but MindLeftBody, the last sentence of your Silly Man reply perfectly describes YOUR actions. C’mon folks, we ALL have a right to our opinions. Why let a differing opinion bother you one iota?? Who cares?? And if it makes you feel better MindLeftBody, you can call me all the worst names you can think of, and I promise you it will not hurt me, even a tiny bit.
Music is the Best!!

Edit-the last sentence prior to your added response.

...comes to mind from SNL with Jane Curtin and Dan Akroyd. "Jane, you ignorant slut." "Dan, you pompous ass."

I got a Saturn-Rega last year which I am very pleased with-excellent depth and clarity. Its also got DAC, but I haven't got round to exploring that yet.

I've got the Onkyo 7030 and it works really fine. I used to play my CDs mostly on a DVD player and the Onkyo it's been a real improvement.

Does that Marantz play the HDCDs? The extra 4 bits? I know when I looked at these last year they claim a huge upgrade in sound. Have you noticed?

I have a Sony that plays DVD Audio, Sacd, FLAC, 4k movies, regular CDs but not HDCD.

Still wondering if it is worth it to hear that extra 4 bits?
I do love SACD and DVD Audio, I mean who doesn't like multi channel music.

Can you imagine if they released some of these releases in multi channel?

Peace all.

A few weeks back I swapped from the Onkyo 7030 to the Emotiva cd-100. I don’t believe the Onkyo decodes HDCDs whereas the Emotiva supposedly does. As far as I can tell, the sound seems to be better, but it is not a massive difference. I had also asked the question about sound quality and am curious to what others think.

My sense is that either the sound differential isn’t that significant or the Onkyo was a really good cd player.

Forgot how good this one is... Great Playing in the Band, Weather Report, etc.... hope everyone is safe. Glad our friends in Europe are starting to get the June 76 box. Has to suck listening how much the people that ordered it like it!!!! bob t

The source material and how the HDCD standard was implemented will control the extent to which the audio is improved vs. playback on a non-HDCD system. I have not found the recent (past eight or ten years or so) releases to fully take advantage of the HDCD standard. For example, I have not noticed any significant difference in the Dave's series whether decoded or not. One way to quickly determine if the HDCD standard is fully met is that a true HDCD recording will be at a lower level than one that is not, meaning, the not-truly-HDCD recordings are compressed, i.e. louder.

Here are a few stand out HDCD mastered recordings from GD/Garcia releases. They retain the dynamic range of the original recordings, and especially the delicate "micro dynamics" between the instruments (or vocals). You will certainly hear the difference.

Dozin’ at the Knick
Road Trips Volume 2 #1
Road Trips Volume 4 #5
Fillmore West 1969 (both full set & compilation)
So Many Roads
Winterland 1973 Complete Recordings
Winterland June 1977
Garcia Band Shining Star
Garcia Band How Sweet it Is
Ladies & Gentlemen Fillmore E. April 1971
To Terrapin
Europe ’72 Complete Recordings (although more subtle than some others)
Dick’s Picks Vol. 17

Happy listening!

I checked the website and there are not any CD players except mini systems. I have an Onkyo DX-C390 6-disc carousel CD player connected to an Onkyo TX-8050 stereo receiver. I love 6-disc players, but it looks like they are disappearing.

Time for someone to make a 6-disc HDCD player.

BluRay audio sounds really good, but you have to have the TV turned on to navigate the menu. It would be cool to get BluRay audio discs that could be played just by using the buttons on the player.
The only BluRay audio disc I currently have is Led Zep The Song Remains The Same and it sounds awesome.

"...we'd like to do another tune in the same key."

- Bob Weir, 8/27/72

That is a huge help. Thank you as always.

The first thing I noticed was that the volume was lower. I thought it was simply because the cd player was made by a different manufacturer. Also, as you mentioned, the separation between the instruments is more distinct. And far less hiss during the quiet portions. So far I have only listened to E72, so I will give some of the other ones you mentioned a try.

Evidently I didn’t waste my money. I just didn’t know what to listen for.

Much appreciated.

....i swear by them. Got a Sony CDP-CE500. But they are a dying breed.
Lookit conekid, all fancy with his 6 disc changer. Lol.

I'm not contributing to the argument on same set lists - but it has got me thinking about them. I haven't got the 1976 box, so I wont comment on that one, but I have been whizzing through Europe 72 over the last week, and the same songs do crop up on a regular basis. And it doesn't seem to matter a jot. First set songs-to pick two at random-Mr Charlie and Beat it on Down The Line, serve the purpose of being set builders. It doesn't help to view them as entities in their own right, anymore than the first chapter of a novel can be judged in its own right. This seems to be more the case with the Dead than other rock bands I listen to due to the being on stage longer, and to them playing two sets. They are preparing band and audience for the next stage of the journey. Because the band were so on form at the time though, many of these building block versions of songs are brilliant.
The second set songs, together with Playing in the Band stand constant repetition because they are improvisational.
And the finale's often feature Sugar Magnolia and One More Saturday Night. They are simply great up tempo numbers to end the night on a high. A bit like The Stones ending a show with Jumpin Jack Flash. You go out taller than when you went in when sets end like that.

"High Definition Compatible Digital (HDCD) is a proprietary audio encode-decode process that claims to provide increased dynamic range over that of standard Red Book audio CD"

It seems to me that HDCD was a way to keep the original dynamic range of the master analog recording. Or as close as possible.

Vikes, et al. Interestingly enough, the Marantz HD-CD1 does NOT decode discs encoded with HDCD format. Finding HDCD players is getting more and more difficult, unless one searches the used market for older equipment, or unless one spends boku bucks.

After doing some research and trying some listening experiments on a Cambridge Blu-Ray player I purchased on EBay (ended up coming from a Head, who kindly hooked me up with stickers and shows when he saw he was shipping to "DeadheadBrewer"), I determined that I no longer care about HDCD. On the Cambridge one can choose whether the HDCD decoding is on or off, and I used the RFK box with its immaculate sound as a test to go back and forth. I'll be darned if my 50-year old ears can tell one iota of difference.

So I learned to quit worrying about HDCD, and now just enjoy the music coming through the Maverick tube DAC (no HDCD decoding), which has a DAC that is much newer/better(?) than most DACs in older players that DO decode HDCD. A guy at a boutique audio shop told me that the new DACs are so improved as to render older "tricks" like HDCD meaningless. Your mileage may vary.

As I mentioned previously, I also could not discern any difference between the SACD layer and Redbook layer on a DVD player that allows me to choose which version to listen to. And I "failed" a blind listening test I set up, whereby my wife randomly played me Mp3 and WAV files of the same song. I guessed which file it was five times out of ten.

If HDCD makes a difference and someone can appreciate it, then more power to her/him. I've decided to never give another thought as to whether my equipment decodes it or not. Buy better headphones and speakers, and ignore nearly everything else is my new audio mantra.

Be kind, rewind.

I am starting my walk through the woods with 4/16/72. This was the first Europe 72 CD I bought. I read it in the Rolling Stone top 20 list where it was noted that Donna was absent. This was a few weeks after I discovered Sunshine Daydream / Veneta and graduated from casual listener to hardcore DeadHead. In those days I didn't like the Donna vocals on Playing in the Band so I had two reasons to get this one first. I've done a 180 with Donna since then.

This box that really is the gold standard. It was the perfect merging of excellent sound quality in excellent playing (not to mention great setlists). I really wish they had some multi-tracks from 1973, but I guess the closest we get is Winterland '73 box set. I always forget what the recording difference was on this one, but it's stated the liner notes - I believe it was wider tape at a faster speed + Plangent. Sometimes the mid-range comes through a little high, but that's what the equalizer is for.

I really like Pigpen's organ chops on Sugaree. The whole Hammond / grand piano combination of PigPen pen and Keith is just sublime. Add Jerry's Stratocaster and Billy - I mean really, has anyone gotten more out of three drums than Billy? Okay maybe four drums. Donna was used just the perfect amount in my humble opinion. I think she was a little over involved in some of the post hiatus classics, but she's pretty much always right where she needs to be on this tour ( indeed, it's the last time you can hear Sunshine Daydream without her until 1979, boring that shows she missed during pregnancy oh, but you get my point). When Bobby was able to get his own screams down that song sounded incredible in 1971 and 72. This is actually the only show they didn't play it, come to think of it.

This April 16th show is actually kind of an odd one for Rolling Stone to pick, considering there is no Dark Star and a very abbreviated The Other One. They really could have picked any show from this tour (I think they did pick Bickershaw as well in their list).

My June 1976 t-shirt arrived. It's as good as it looks. It's cut and stitched like the Pacific Northwest t-shirt, which is a good thing. Excellent quality.

I'm doing my Europe 72 run a little bit differently this year. After the full listen, I'm going back and replaying the highlights, which inevitably includes all of the Dark Stars and The Other Ones.

I also have one of Doc's April '71 favorites queued up next - 4/8 at the Boston Music Hall. This is a great 15-minute Dark Star that goes into St. Stephen. My PhD is not in Dead '71, but I have noticed that the St. Stephens started rocking out after they dropped the William Tell section and the Mickey Hart. The instrumental outro that leads up to the "answer man" vocal is kick-ass, and some of Bobby's best chord playing. The first rule of 1971 is 1971 St. Stephens are not to be missed!

Well it's almost time to work so I have to wrap up this walk which was all too short. Fortunately I don't live in the city or anything so I have not seen a single person. It's 45 degrees sunny and no wind. I'm surrounded by huge pine trees (which only fall occasionally) and the 4/16/72 China Rider is playing on my headphones. This is one of the best of the tour. Jerry and Keith are extra busy.

June 1976 t shirt. You're going to want that cowbell. I feel like I'm on the Oakland A's or at least part of the Dick's Picks 33 album cover. Speaking of the Dick's Picks 33 album cover - do the last 5 seconds of the Breaking Bad opening credits evoke that album cover image in anyone else's head besides mine? There's something about the color and the drifting smoke the triggers the DP 33 imagery. Every time. Kind of like every time Jack Straw ends, I expect the opening chords of Franklin's Tower to start up; this is because Grateful Dead go to Nassau was one of my first Dead CDs.

Strider88 - I saw your comment about the Gibson SG. It sounded like you actually saw the February 18th 1971 show at Port Chester? Did I catch that right? If so... I'd love to hear some stories about that one.

With all the tape they use throughout their career to record the shows, it would have been cool if they had spent 60 Seconds after each set to comment about how things went. Okay maybe I'll just stop being greedy and be satisfied they recorded the shows at all. This was just an unheard-of practice. We're so blessed.

...we do songs to _death_."

- Jerry Garcia

Would Always welcome more 1978! 💀🌹

I use a Laptop with Foobar HDCD decoder witch allows me to cut the output volume even if peak extension is not enabled. This allows for more headroom and not brickwalled. Newer releases do not have peak extension enabled so it's good I still have the option to cut the output volume.

Foobar HDCD decoded(halve output volume)to a USB SPDIF 24bit converter to a Marantz sr7005 DAC

4/16/72 sounds pretty good I like these shorter PITB's they go far-out fast.

I did exactly the same for Aarhus 16/04...and I love this show; I bought E72 à la carte, so a few shows are missing.
if I had to save 6 lyceum 05/26 -Frankfurt 04/26 Tivoli 04/14 Paris 05/3or4 Amsterdam10/05 and Wembley 04/8
(with good mention Rotterdam, Newcastle, Aarhus and underestimated Luxembourg)
I found this interesting blog for Europe 72 ,
http://bozosandbolos.blogspot.com/
Now I am relistening the "small shows" Newcastle, and soon Hambourg, & Munich
For June 76 Nothing on the shoreline...

with two tour buses in the yard

As I am wont to do on this date, I've taken-in this bad boy today and I would like to encourage others to do the same. Would love to see this one some day, officially; it's among my personal favorites for a '78:

https://archive.org/details/gd1978-04-16.sbd.miller.82273.sbeok.flac16

Be Safe and Well, All

Sixtus

P.S. Aarhus ain't too shabby either, for a Sixteenth.
Good one, Stoltzfus. I see what you did there.

So I’m finally getting around to throw out a few thoughts on June 1976 (Michigan's Stay at Home Order has made me oddly withdrawn from internet life as well... I guess I feed of external stimulus in ways I don't even realize). Hopefully I'm not repeating what has already been said!

For the first set material, at times I found myself so absorbed by the nuances that I would briefly ‘forget’ what song they were actually on (jams in 6/19th’s Franklin’s and Tennessee Jed being memorable examples). And then some renditions are just executed masterfully, finding that perfect balance between structure and looseness (try 6/10th’s Cassidy, which is the first track in the box that I had to immediately listen to again). No doubt the clarity of the recordings helps tremendously to pick up the subtleties. Samson though took a few attempts before getting the groove dialed in (the 16th finally pulls it off but the previous are fledglings).

For the second sets, my favorite GD shows are those where once the band steps up on stage, everything that follows rolls together as a complete performance and you would never want to skip or add anything. And you are starting to hear that in 1976 second sets. Perhaps it was the new momentum from Hart being back. I don’t think its coincidence that the last time they had this approach was back in the late 60’s. I honestly find ’72 – ’74 shows to be too long and I rarely listen to any front to back, as I do for shows from 1976 onward. Instead I look for great segments that can be lifted out for a splendid 80 minute sit-down.

I was really looking forward to this release and its everything I hoped for. It captures such a distinct year for GD with Jerry’s new tone, the new songs, Hart being back, the fresh approaches after the hiatus. I’ll be returning to it a lot. If there was one song I wish they had in rotation though it would have been Bird Song. I’d love to know how that could have sounded seventy-sixed! I guess Crazy Fingers kind of filled that slot.

[Side note: I’m a big fan of Aarhus, the jam after Truckin’ that eventually lands down into TOO is sublime, the entire Disc 3 is a great example for what I’m talking about above]

Fivebranch.. well said.

Sixtus, we are mutual fans of 4/16/78, Huntington WV. One of two times played the Mountain State.

Ha.. if I had to keep just six Europe shows. Well.. I'd opt for the cyanide pill and be grateful for a life well lived. You can't limit yourself to just six shows from that tour, it's simply not possible.

Keith...I would include all the Playing in the Bands as well as the Dark Stars and Other ones. Its amazing how much space they travelled within such narrow boundaries. A bit like the tardis in Doctor Who-these Playing's look small(ish) from the outside, but once you go inside they open up into infinity.

AarHUS . . . in the middle of our street . . . AaaarHUS . . . was our castle and our keep.

....that song takes on a WHOLE new meaning in this day and age. Lmao.

Walk number two of the day. Sheike yer bones I'm with you man. I read that blog a few years ago, and I enjoy going back to revisit it now and then. I could read about Europe 72 analysis all day. I'll be tuning in tonight, thanks for the reminder!

Dave Rock yes! The Playing in the Bands as well. I think I listened to 4/14 4 x yesterday - Jerry gets really nuts on the wa wa pedal. In fact I think I might even like the Summer & Autumn versions better because they seem to rock out just as much, but for longer. By '73 the style started changing in the jam part of Playing - less rocky more trippy. It's all good though - change is what makes this band tick. I also revisit the Truckin's, as they can go anywhere from 9 minutes to 19 minutes. And I especially get into the three Lovelights they play on this tour, though the last of the only one featuring the great doot doot doos riff-rap. Not sure why they skipped that part at Hundred Year Hall and Bickershaw. Maybe because 5/24 was close to the end and somebody said they missed that great riff. It was certainly one of the hooks that elevated me up the Dead ladder. I've always thought their jams on these Lovelights have a very heavy Allman Brothers influence to them, like no other Lovelights (except maybe the one they played at Radio City right before they hit Europe).

4/16/78 - it's been awhile. For album art I use that t-shirt artwork of the ships out at sea with the steal your face sails and I titled it Ship of Fools. That'll get released pretty soon I think. Maybe even this year.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Grateful+Dead+Ship+of+Fools+t-shirt&prm…

P.S. I'm posting this link to illustrate what the album cover picture looks like that I use for 4/16/78. I would never buy this t-shirt. Unless it was available from dead net. And I cropped it so it's square and doesn't look like a t-shirt. As I mentioned earlier - June 1976 is the T-shirt to buy.

Love Cleveland 12/6/73 Dark Star, love HEC Edmondson Pavilion Playing in the Band from 5/21/74.... but man Badge has to be my favorite songs under 3 minutes!! Just so good. Clapton's playing after "kid married to Mable" just melts me like butter.... as well as his lyrics after. "yes I told you about the light goes up and down"!! bob t

Been on a Tommy Bolin tear lately. So much madness and so much genius. He'll never be forgotten, but he'll never have the recognition he deserves. Ah, sadly...

Jeff Beck and Johnny Depp released a cover of John Lennon's "Isolation" just recently. It's better than expected.

https://ultimateclassicrock.com/jeff-beck-johnny-depp-john-lennon-isola…

It took awhile for me to accept Johnny Depp as a true musician, but so many A-listers are hanging and playing in bands with him, I've finally gotten over it. Actors all want to be rock stars, but very few can pull it off.

Jerry Garcia was both an actor and a rock star - see "The Grateful Dead Movie."

All the best to everyone everywhere except the bad guys - you know who you are.

\m/

Can you believe I've never listened to it.

....to the deadnet pick of the day with discussion page. Get your mojo working heads!! Feel free to chime in marye. Would love to hear your opinions.
Tomorrow is the Anthem Of the Sun 50th with bonus AND 4.17.72 Tivoli. Stay strong people.

One step removed from Volunteers, which reminds me...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsoqRvYqWDg

I'm in an Anthem fan, my favorite GD studio LP. I just finished Dicks Picks 18, and feel very late to the party. I will do my best.

…….and who was the twisted soul that recommended watching Ozark on these threads? I'm telling your mom.. that is one twisted show and you should be embarrassed for recommending it.

How is season two?

Shakedown
12-31-81
Get Some...

Yeah that was me. Season 2? Heh - Season 3 is the one that really knocked my socks off. That one dropped on a Friday and I finished it Sunday night. Pretty sure I missed someone's birthday in my house during that binge, possibly mine but hopefully not one of the kids.

Vguy…..there were a few comment made on that board that a pick of the week might be more realistic, and might encourage more participants. The only response from a regular contributor - not yourself I hasten to add- was that participation was optional. I took this to mean that if you didn't like it the way it was...then leave. Which is what I did.
To reiterate what I said on that board...after following my daily Dead path wherever it might lead, I simply don't have the time to follow choices picked by someone else. Not on a daily basis. No hard feelings in the slightest, though - I am quite happy for it to carry on the way it is. But that's why I don't personally contribute.

Re: Recruits - Let me get this straight - I have a social responsibility to uphold that requires me to listen to Grateful Dead music? Because in my code of honor, personal commitments supersede things like house chores and bill paying. I'm in.

I've never really listened to a Grateful Dead studio album. Just Foolish Heart and the 3 hits on In The Dark. Also Uncle Gary sent me these awesome 5.1 Surround CDs of AB and WMD. I'm not talking copies, I mean the RFD. A man sends you a gift like that and there's nothing for it but to put it the fuck on. Besides that I drink not from the studio well. Speaking of drinks I just figured out why the dog is staring intently at me and then the sink. He must hate when I space out on the headhones.

But anyway, I even bought the Anthem 50th for the live stuff, appropriately titled Anthem of the Moon and adorned with album art of my own semi-creation; but I never bothered to listen to the studio stuff. Maybe once I've mastered the live recordings I'll be motivated. Until then it just feels like time I could be spending on something from Vault.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DQ5YM6L4wfOvjZfpXmXjg8lnWceIK16o/view?…

But yeah, so far I've been rehashing the highlights of The Dead in Denmark from yesterday. One of the few Cumberlands on this tour and really dig the Truckin' + Jam bit. And it is cool to hear just Bobby on the Playing vocals once in a while.

Now on to the final night in Copenhagen. Nothing like a '72 Cold Rain & Snow to start off "the business". I find this version almost indistinguishable from the only other E72 performance, which broke up a 3/4 Promised Land opening repetoire at the Lyceum (a curious fact); but listen closely, and you will hear some of Keith's piano bits on the 4/17 cut. Do Not get me started on the Great Piano Controversy of Europe '72.....

Keithfan - Okay, I'll bite: "The great piano controversy of Europe 72????" I'm fairly well read on all things Grateful Dead and Europe 72, and it's very rare that I read about something on this board that I have NO idea what someone is talking about. (Is it just me? - I suddenly feel like I've been caught at school not doing my homework and everyone's looking at me.) I'll go get a cup of coffee, and if you would be good enough to explain what you're talking about, it will help me get through my morning.

I think the term you're looking for is "Dimensionally Transcendental". Works well in the Tardis AND Dead jams. Both will get you there and back again.

https://www.dailycamera.com/2020/04/16/cu-boulder-cancels-dead-company-…
Sad but necessary. Onward. . .

Piano controversy? Do tell.

Road Trips Volume 4, does anyone know who the guy is that does the Introduction? The guy who says in the beginning to sit and not stand, and Pigpen heckles and says, "Don't be programming it baby, let's just get in on?" bob t

Lot's of love for Big Rock Pow Wow here..

And thanks KeithFan for the Ozark suggestion. A grippy little series.

I just finished the latest season/series of Ozark -- 3rd season. It is a very good TV show and worth watching. Another series/show that I highly recommend is Sneaky Pete. It is about a recently paroled conman who gets busy running cons again. Scene after scene can have you on the edge of your seat. Great stuff!

No one is required to play.
It was just a suggestion from Bolo.

I, among others, who shall remain nameless, recommended Ozark several weeks back. There was a "Which TV shows/series are worth watching while stuck at home" diversion from GD talk several weeks back. I think a Breaking Bad reference initiated it. The second and third seasons of Ozark are equally good as the first season.

Quite convenient since we are all at home - for the most part at least!

Post a quote from between song banter from any show and see who can get the correct date/venue. The first to post the right answer wins and gets to post the next quote for others to place.*

*for two or more players age 0 and up

I'll go first with a soft ball:

From the infamous microphone monitor level test: "great snakes" (my favorite line from this particular passage)

Thanks man..

I watch at least one per day.. great show if you like dark action/suspense. Almost caught up on Better Call Saul too. AJS foreshadowed a great episode is just around the corner for me. Wexler.