Grateful Dead

dead.net the official site

Failing that, maybe Dead & Co could use one. They play a lot of Grateful Dead songs.

Release some 1968 for DaP 40 already. Shitcan whatever you and Norman have in the pipeline and give us 1968 primal dead or else. Civil discourse is beginning to fragment, the fate of the free world depends on you. At this point it's your only clean way out...

Continue to taunt us so and the entire 68 shelf in the vault will be replaced with a 40 oz tin of peanuts.

10/12/68. Final warning.

You sound mean mad. (Grapes of Wrath reference)

Cmon Dave...hes right...a 68 show would be mighty sweet

....on my doorstep. I was a little bit apprehensive, being Fri The 13th and all.
And now I want peanut butter. Thanks people. Luckily, I have a stash.

50 years ago today…..

August 14, 1971
Berkeley Community Theater, Berkeley, California

Set 1: Bertha-Me And My Uncle-Mr. Charlie-Sugaree-El Paso-Big Railroad Blues-Big Boss Man-Brokedown Palace-Playing In The Band-Hard To Handle-Cumberland Blues-Loser-Promised Land

Set 2: Truckin'>drums>The Other One>Me And Bobby McGee-Sugar Magnolia-Not Fade Away>Goin' Down The Road Feeling Bad>Not Fade Away

Encore: Johnny B. Goode-Uncle John's Band

Deadicated to Serpent of Dreams, droidmec, WhatsbecomeofRosemarysBaby, Fogle, MilesM, NWScarletFireGuy, Old Chief Smokem, mdboucher, Quodlibet, Thats_Otis, and Pancho Pantera, because memory is the treasure house of the mind wherein the monuments thereof are kept and preserved……

One of the better summer 71 shows, with a decent dose of first set Pigpen and a nice big jam to open the second set. Phil is very active. The second set seems to be dominated by Bobby, with four straight Weir songs to kick it off. One never hears a lot about the two Berkeley shows, but they are worth a listen!!

Rock on!!

Doc
Sometimes I can think of nothing more blissful than going to Berkeley and reading Byron for three years……………

Ironic a band with a song called "the music never stopped" has so many diehard fans claiming the music has stopped. My favorite quip to someone at a show these days jibing a younger fan with the old trope "you never saw Jerry! You have NO idea!" I like to ask if they saw Pigpen?! The music IS the true thing we are all after, even the band. A nightly search for the just exactly perfect moment or inspiration from the ethereal realms. The music ending with the band is NOT what I've gathered they intended from their comments. Even Bob recently said he had a dream where Dead and Co. was playing away fiercely except he wasn't in the band. When he looked John, Oteil, and Jeff were old and gray with new players in his spot with Mickey and Bill. Personally I like Bob's dream and that's the way to make sure the music never stops. A lineage of players keeping the flame alive and bringing in younger generations. Not telling the kids its over they missed the party and life sucks now cause you're watching a cover band. I've said it before Fare Thee Well was simply "Fare Thee Phil" It was Phil's retirement party so he could do his own projects, never once thought that was THE END nor was that a Grateful Dead show as advertised.

Apologies, too much King Crimson, not enough coffee......

Rock on!

Doc

I do agree with you on a point Thin. The Dead were not a cover band to me immediately after Mickey came back in 76. I did accidently write that through many copy and pastes trying to organize my thoughts. My bad. What I lost in the process was a comment I had wrote that there was a large enough change in sound and way of playing the songs that the Dead was at that point a substantial degree off separation from their early 70s sound.

You did not need to point out that they still made great music with K&D after 74 because I said so in my post. So I agree with you on that point too. Just please try to be more attentive.

Disagree on crushing the oldies. There was an occasional Bertha like Dick's 18 that rocked. Very few Playing in the Bands or Eyes of the World came anywhere near 73/74, emphasis on very few.

After K&D left is a different story. Yeah they were evolving. Into a cover band. That's when they turned into a new band all together. If the degree of separation from their 71 to 74 selves was a 5 out of 10 to their 76 to 78, selves and the degree of separation from their 78 selves to their 1987 selves was at least another 5 out of 10, and their sound and style of playing those 71 to 74 songs was substantially changed, which it was, then a band is just too far from their former selves to be anything but a new band playing there old songs. Same as the Who. Yeah it's fun, but it's not same band. The word cover band is used very loosely. Obviously they are still called the Grateful Dead and still playing the music that some of the members originally made, but not really the same at all. Wasn't the 2015 reunion a cover band? Of course it was they were the Grateful Dead only in name.

I do not believe I am projecting but you may be in denial ;-)

Peace

Not sure what the appropriate term is, but clearly not the same band.

Just look at the videos. While the available footage from 74 and prior is limited, the band plays with purpose, focus and intensity. In later years, they just seem to be going through the motions. And please don’t mistake the smiles and giddiness for passion.

You can make the argument that the band had peaks from 78 on, but they are few, far between and often measured in songs rather than shows or entire tours.

Take the example of the Sons of the Pioneers: they've been around since 1933 and have been performing ever since with no breaks, with new members coming( while the old ones go...); they were never perceived as a cover band in the 60s or 70s, even though all the founding members had already retired by then.
Whether you like post-hiatus Dead or not, they were not a cover band; by definition, a cover band performs other artists' songs, and if they copy precisely the original arrangements, they become a tribute band; the Dead were neither(on the other hand, most of Jerry's solo ventures were cover bands with a few originals sprinkled in)
The big change when Brent joined is the formatting of songs/sets: first set songs, pre-drums songs, drums/space, post drums songs, shorter jams, and overall predictable shows(with a few exceptions here and there.)

Thanks Doc, I don't recall hearing about these shows. Will see if there's a good Charlie Miller on Archive.org.

Uncle Gary sent me the suite of shows from the Manhattan Center last week, back in early April '71. It's been primarily '71 for me this past week.

I don't think anyone was suggesting that the post K and D Dead were literally a cover band. They weren't like The Australian Doors or The Bootleg Beatles or whatever .What I was trying to suggest was that after 1975, they lost touch with their creative source-their muse - however you want to think of it. This became, for me, even more pronounced from 1979 onwards. They still played quite a few songs written from up to 1974 after this date, and it was when they did this, that they gave the impression, to me, that they were no longer as creative as they had been in the past. They seemed to re-presenting their earlier more innovative selves in much the same way that a literal cover band might have done. They still played jamming vehicles like Playing, Eyes, Other One etc - but the spark seemed to have gone. For me, any way-its all obviously very subjective.

They didn't sound like a cover band doing Lovelight with Pigpen singing - but they did when Bob started doing it. Same with a lot of traditional material they played circa 1969-1972. The sounded to me to be connecting with their roots which was then expanded into their own repertoire. So, contradictory as it may sound, they seemed less like a cover band playing other peoples songs between 1969-1972 than they did playing many of their own songs after 1979.

All I know is ,seeing the Dead from 1975 to 1995 I really got high a lot and had a lot far out crazy times. Saw a lot of great shows , even the last shows I saw at Shoreline, 6/95 were enjoyable. 40 years ago today, I was hitchhiking up to Portland from the Bay Area to see the Dead. Fun times at the Greek, Frost , Winterland, Ventura, The Warfield and on and on. Garcia & Grisman , Garcia & Nelson & Rothman at the Warfield, those shows were historic. Acoustic Dead at the Warfield, fun times for sure.

Good points. I agree.

Check your pm.

To DaveRock's point, if you judge the GD by Bobby doing Lovelight or Good Lovin', there's an argument for decline -- those were poor choices, just as Bobby's slide playing really marred a lot of material. Then you have Jer checking out on H, which according to Hunter, "ruined everything." Then you have Phil and his "Heinecken years," which started in '73-'74. So the roots of decline coincided with the loss of Pigpen, and the vagaries of being a rock star (affecting Phil and Jer) and the delusions of grandeur affecting Mr. Short Shorts. Another factor: age and the way maturity and creature comforts rob people of the intensity of their youth. Still, only Jer soldiered on with his own band, sounding fresh and intense even during his H years. (Yes, Bobby too, but not in the same league, and I'm a huge fan of and saw many shows by Kingfish.)

As for the Stones, I'd had it when Mick and Keith started wearing eye makeup. Yet they regrouped and followed my advice by cutting an all blues album a few years ago. I told 'em, stop writing Jagger-Richards crap and just do the classics you grew up on. Although I only howled this at my stereo in the privacy of my home, somehow the message reached them.

I will say that I quit the GD scene after 1987's three at the Rocks, two in Telluride. I'd been going full tilt with that band from '71 onward (1st show, '72) and by '87 (full disclosure: I turned 30 that summer), I was done. So I had an age-related issue, too. Still, when cultivating in Vermont in '92 I agreed to catch 'em one last time in Albany with a little help from my friends. (Mr. Blow.) One weak show, one fairly strong. So I bookended a 20-year live thing with the band. But I never flagged on Jerry's band and caught a huge show in '91 at MSG that they just released. One man's story... Which has a lot to do with actual concert attendance. As for the music, well I think everyone knows my position on a hot tape in the comfort of one's home. Gawd, back in fall '72, and the summer of '73, GD shows were marathon survival tests for a 15 year old. I mean, we were essentially little kids with grownup tastes. We had nothing except a t-shirt, jeans, sneakers and blotter. Literally nothing else, no IDs, no money, no hats (RFK '73 = 100 effin' degrees and like three water fountains for 25,000 people...) Yet, here I am!

Blah blah, woof woof!!

everybody's gonna wanna doze

...is a broken record.

'65->'95. I LOVE IT!

....my granddaughter Trish sent me an Instagram message out of nowhere.
She came across Billy Strings doing Brown-Eyed Women.
"Grandpa! This is the band you enjoy!'
I asked her if she enjoyed it too.
"Yes! Its happy music. Is there more?"
Made my day. She's 17 and smart as a whip.
Turns out she's a huge Queen fan as well.
Hard to argue that.
Guess what Trish. There is more.

Great story VGuy.. and another generation fills in the void for the less than passionate old dead guy folks that no longer let hippies congregate on their grass.

Think of the GD like we might think of the Olympics.. every four years we get a fresh pool of passionate deadheads and athletes to keep the flame burning. Billy Strings is certainly an Olympic picker.

Love Brown Eyed Women.. If I had his talent I would cover it too..

....that's a definite definition.
I'm open to debate. Cover band or not. Believe it if you need it, or leave it if you dare.
Edit. I'm not a Stones afficiando by any means, but they became a cover band because of Ron Wood? Amazing.
On that note, I enjoy Aftermath UK, Tattoo You and Let It Bleed quite a bit.

50 years ago today…..

August 15, 1971
Berkeley Community Theater, Berkeley, California

Set 1: Big Railroad Blues-Playing In The Band-Mr. Charlie-Cumberland Blues-Sugaree-Promised Land-Big Boss Man-China Cat Sunflower>I Know You Rider-Me And Bobby McGee-Casey Jones

Set 2: Truckin'>drums>The Other One>Me And My Uncle>The Other One>Wharf Rat-Turn On Your Love Light

Encore: Johnny B. Goode-And We Bid You Goodnight

Deadicated to the420bandito, MLavallee, blueboy714, Roguedeadguy, chilly1214, Moses Quasar, kevinbrandon, UncleBill'sBand, gruesom, skantor, Lightfoot510, JJJJJ, msmiranda, bchar, JackS, luis, clovett, and Dead Ahead, because memory is a complicated thing, a relative to truth, but not its twin…..

Requests for White Rabbit, and a critical envelope…………..

As with the previous evening, a show that doesn’t get a lot of attention. A little less grease, and a bit more jamming. A worthwhile trade-off? You decide………..

Rock on!!

Doc
So long as I confine my thoughts to my own ideas divested of words, I do not see how I can be easily mistaken……

I don't think anyone would suggest that The Stones became a cover band because of Ron Wood. But they did go into creative decline around the time he joined. A bit cartoonish. Tattoo You is a good 'un though.

40 years ago today, I was up in Portland having another fun night with the Dead . Great party scene all day down by the Willamette River. Opened up with Shakedown Street, nice To Lay Me Down. Crazy fun times.

Eleven GD shows, one The Dead, and a couple hundred other fine acts of rock bluegrass and jazz. Oh, and a symphony or two. Does seeing a musical count? Probably could have seen a cover band in a bar if I ever went to them.
I did believe it, and needed it, and dared to need it. Is that box of rain a euphemism for acid?

Fun subject at our house: misheard lyrics.
Mine, among most of the Stones catalog, is Elton's Rocket Man, "burning out on you (fuse?) up here alone".
Wife's is Beach Boys Barbra Ann, "Went to a dance, lookin' for a man (romance?). Saw BarberAnn so I knew I had a chance".
Some of these we have misheard our whole lives and we get a good laugh when we figure them out. There are probably whole websites of these. Cheers!

By Desmond Decker and the Israelites always used to raise a smile with my group when it came on the pub juke box. "Excuse me while I kiss this guy" in Purple Haze was another good one.

Always a favorite subject here and abroad. My largest ever is my first two albums of the Tannerhill Weavers I got. Thought I knew all the lines,,, finally saw them in print and they were 70% Gaelic. Wow! Did that change things!

Did anyone listen to 8/14/71 yesterday? Always good to get Doc's recommendations for the '71 shows. Thanks Doc. I listened to the first set yesterday. Great stuff. Phil is very audible, as Doc indicated, and Jerry is also very present and crisp (more on that below). Later, I'll get a listen in on the 8/15 show.

1971 needs more official Full Norman shows. Sucks that they didn't release all of the FW 7/2 show with the Skull & Roses 50th redo. I'm listening to more and more soundboards these days in search of the magic. It used to bum me that there are so few '71 Dark Stars, but now I'm finding that they did a lot of Dark Star type stuff in other songs - for example the "Jam" track from Ladies & Gentlemen. The 8/14 Other One also has a really good "Jam" section.

For guitar-Heads: when I started getting into this 8/14 show, I noticed Jerry's guitar tone is really crisp and mid-rangey (definitely not the Strat, more like a Gibson). Checked the trusty Garciad guitar site, and it turns out he's playing a Les Paul at these Berkeley shows. The Les Paul makes for an interesting take on the sound of these songs, so all the more reason to check out these two shows.

Misheard lines - for years I thought Weir said he was Truckin' "like the dude I met".

I heard this discussed years ago either on FM radio or a TV rock doc.

Blinded By The Light
“Revved up like a deuce/douche…”

Based on the criteria of some attempts to justify calling the GD a cover band at some point in their career, Bob Dylan would be guilty of being a Bob Dylan cover anytime he played a song differently, or with a different lineup, than the way he played it originally.

Listened to 8/14/71 last night. 8/15/71 coming up tonight. I can damn near taste the Lebanese red hash that our whole row smoked from in a chillum 50 years ago.
Life is short. Live it to the fullest!

This cover band conversation is plain silly. Condescending era comments.. boring and thin skinned..

I did listen to most of 8/14/71 on a drive yesterday and most of 8/15 on the return today. Suffers from a bit of song redundancy, but that shouldn't scare anyone off.. Love the pig centric sequences.. plus the playing was all but redundant.. unique and special. Got to admit I was a bit distracted and my mood not ideal... but I will plant the flag and take the win nonetheless. I am free to revisit these shows when the situation is more ideal.

Hope you all had a great weekend. Live each day like it's your last and be kind to those that look like they need kindness. Things are getting weird.. how does that saying go again???

Onward.

Jim - maybe it's got a bit heavy going lately, but if some people on here want to discuss their perception of the bands music, who are you, or anyone else, to pass judgement on them for doing so ? I am sure the conversation will swing on to something you are more comfortable with soon enough. The strength of any community surely lies in its ability to accommodate different perspectives and to encourage people within it to voice them. Not to insist on conformity. Not everyone see the world the way you ( or I ) do, but the fact that they don't doesn't mean that they are wrong. There has been a marked rudeness in the posts of some people on this issue when they have come across something that they haven't agreed with.

Icrmcnkd -isn't Dylan consciously re-interpreting his songs when he sings and presents them differently ? Like The Dead did with their jams between 1968 and 1974-and some would say on to 1995.

I only saw Dylan a couple times in the past, and I recall that with some songs he played them differently than how I knew them from albums, and so I didn’t even recognize them at first.
The point was that GD was never a cover band just because they played differently at some point than they did at another point.
Open discussions here are fine. But the ‘cover band’ claim was initially used and then reused a few times as a disparaging term to trash the choice of DaP 39, and Brent and the Brent era, as well as the ‘76 return of Mickey. It seemed to be an attack on the band, which of course is going to draw responses.

Icrmcnkd - I've only seen Dylan once, about three years ago, and I didn't recognise "Desolation Row" until it was half over!

It’s even harder to recognize the song when he sings it through his nose.
:)

Hopefully we can move on then. It's a silly argument and unnecessarily negative.

+-×/

who won't blow my brother"

Ladies and gentlemen, the Eagles!

40 years ago today I was up at McArthur Court in Eugene Oregon to see the Dead. An Evening with the Grateful Dead & L.S.D., that's what the marquee read as we pulled into Eugene early that morning. The Deads equipment guys were out front unloading the trucks and they were pointing up at the sign and laughing.. The sign was removed later that morning. The Dead did Baby Blue as an encore, the first time I heard them do it. Kesey, the pranksters and the Thunder Machine were all there. A bunch of fireworks set off in the graveyard across the street after the show. Crazy fun times.

Jim-you want to move on, but you post on the subject again. Be kind to other people - unless they disagree with you, seems to be the message. Things would be much easier if everyone was like you, eh?

No nose? How does he smell?

Bloomin' awful!

I haven’t followed the discussion closely but have read many of the posts. A couple of points. First I don’t get the issue about playing others’ songs. It’s been a long tradition in music to interpret others’ songs. The second point is anyone who wants a band to be exactly the style and type it was 10, 20, or 30 years later is in the wrong place. Maybe try a stones site.
My definition of a cover band is a band that only does the popular songs of the day to make some cash. That’s not the Dead
While I’ve been listening to them on disc since 1967 and enjoying their shows from a short time after then, they’ve never stood still. Is 1973 different than 1983? Of course, thankfully so. I enjoy both

It's all good on my end.

Onward.

Anyone know any good jokes?

😊

....and told him to get out.
As the husband was walking to the door to leave, the wife yells out, "I hope you die a long, slow, painful death!!"
Husband turned around and said, "So, you want me to stay?"
Ta dum dum tissh

Here's two for champagne pow lovers.
-What do you call a snowboarder in a three piece suit? The defendant.
ba-dum-dum...
-What do you call two dudes on shaped skis? A parabolickers.
ba-dum-dum
As has been said here before, I'll show myself out. Happy national joke day everybody.

A man married a woman.

and still smells bloomin' awful!

Two Mennonite!

I can say that one because my family background is Mennonite...

2 weeks, 4 days after my delivery notice arrived! Right on schedule!

I probably missed this tid-bit in previous posts but does anyone know why 4/26 was cut short on Disc2 and replaced with the 4/25 bonus material, and then 4/26 starts up again on Disc3? Curious that 4/26 was cut short on Disc2 when there is the balance of the show left?!

Stay healthy, stay safe.