Grateful Dead

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Bought this on vinyl and had excessive skipping. Went through two copies before returning to Amazon. Very disappointed as this sounded great when it didn’t skip. Upgraded my catridge and counter weight to no avail. May rebuy down the road. I would like to see more releases from Bear.

....Steve Parish. 4.13. Get em while they're hot!!

The Doc and Merle Watson box released several months ago is actually the second release branded as Bear's Sonic Journals. The first? 2012's Big Brother and the Holding Co, featuring Janis Joplin, 23 June 1968, at the Carousel Ballroom. Easily the best rec'd Janis performance and, as luck would have it, the very best Janis performance on tape that I'm aware of. I'd urge anyone to get this along with the unbelievable sound quality of the Doc and Merle Watson evenings at the Boardinghouse from 1974. Bear really captured the acoustic instruments like no one else could. Doc Watson, who was blind, even remarks on the tape about the "nice young man" with the microphones who was recording the evening. And what a great contrast -- Doc Watson and Janis Joplin. Small plug: the Owlsey Foundation accepts donations for the preservation of Bear's 1500 concert tapes. So I've been sending $50 each year to help preserve this priceless trove. If you donate $400 for a specific band, which they'll confirm is in the archives, they'll make the tape transfer to digital and, if that show (which they won't provide date/location details on) gets released, you get a thanks in the liner notes. I immediately inquired about Jimi, Roy Buchanan and a few other favorites. Upcoming: the "secretary" of the Foundation told me they have two full sets of Allman Brothers at the Fillmore West (I believe) with the original lineup (read: Duane, Berry) and Bill Levenson appears to be readying those two sets for general release. Can you imagine? Two more sets of Duane leading the ABB from (I'm guessing) 1970-71. And Bear taped it, so it's gotta be phenomenal. Over and out!

Is it possible to purchace or download the Janis show?I would love to have something like that...

The Elevators have had a very unfortunate history when it comes to their released recordings. The sound quality is usually horrible, the accompanying info/notes are usually misleading or incorrect, and from what I've gathered, it seems that the money has never really gone to those who actually deserve it. The "Sign of the Three Eyed Men" box set is another example of a sketchy cash grab, where everything can be found in better quality elsewhere (cool artwork though). The best way to hear the 13 floor is to seek out about 10 different compilations/bootlegs, kinda fun in it's own way but definitely not ideal.

When they release a show, they usually take down the good quality versions of the show from the vault Jim

before I go. Last summer my Mom was about to go off to hospice to die, and we planned a full day to spend together, right before she left. Sort of a reconciliation day, making everything all right, as it were. Now, we had always shared discussions on music, poetry, and philosophy together, and as such, the night before she left, I spent many hours putting together a CD of music which might communicate my heartfelt feelings to her in a shared language she would understand. I know this story may sound odd to some of you, but it is what it is, so please do not judge... Anyway, she was always a big Beatles fan, and one of the songs near the beginning of the CD I chose was the Beatles, "Here Comes The Sun." I decided to follow this up with "Let It Be," but being the music aficionado that I imagine (no pun) I am, instead of the Beatles version, I turned to the other two versions in my collection, namely the Ray Charles one, and the Aretha Franklin one. After much thought, I finally settled on the Ray Charles version of "Let It Be," as I figured it was more representative of my own voice on the CD, and would be more like my voice speaking to her. The next day, with CD and other presents in hand, as I am walking over to her apartment, which was just a few blocks from mine, to spend our last "real day" together, I start to hear the faint sounds of music on the air. As I continue on my journey towards her building, the music starts to take shape, and I can barely believe what I'm hearing... Thinking that my mind is playing tricks on me, I start to hear the lyrics to "Let It Be!" As I keep walking, the sound is getting quite clear now, it is indeed "Let It Be." I turn the corner, and there is an older black man with a boom box (who uses those these days?) and he is playing on his boom box the Aretha Franklin version of "Let It Be" (how obscure, what are the chances?). I took it as a sign that the universe was replying back to me, just what I was telling my Mom, but in her voice back to me as if she were speaking to me. I went and spent a great "last" day with her (probably the best day we ever had together as adults), and sadly, that was the last real day I had with her before she passed. I just felt like I had to tell this crazy story here, among other "misfits" who may have experienced the "edge." This is a crazy world we live in, and we don't fully understand all its mysteries...

Great and moving story-thanks for sharing.

I've always been impressed with the sound of the cds in this collection. It seems better than that found on earlier editions released on cd, and better than the vinyl editions that came out in the late 70s. Maybe I have been seduced by the presentation!

I have the Janis CD and it is very nice. I will certainly buy the ABB release. As I went to sign in to this account on my phone it said ‘website not secure’. Never seen that before. Seems that Count Vlad is still trying to steal back the Bettys.

I love some of the Doors stuff, but they are really a studio creation. When live, they sounded thinner than a dime-store sandwich. The reason? Ray Manzarek was the bass player in addition to the keyboard player. He played bass lines on the keyboard with the left hand, organ with the right. This has A HUGE HUGE impact on the music. A hammond organ is practically a wind instrument, with the sound being "blown" up the Leslie cabinet and diffused with the rotating whirly-speaker thingy - it makes a "whoosh" sound instead of a "thump". Hammond organs have a very airy, round sound.... and this is NOT very effective for the "bass"! A stringed bass through a solid state amp, by comparison, has a very immediate, punchy attack that ya need in a "rock" band. I'll use my local heroes as an example. The B3 Kings in Boston (the Saunders/Garcia-type band who I recently saw with Sixtus) do some small gigs in a 3-person formation with no bass player - Hammond B3 player does the Ray Manzarek left-hand bass thing. Super-chill dinner music. The guitarist said "You should come see us in Boston with full band - we rock harder there...". I saw them, and it was so different... stringed bass added punch and groove and percussion - elevator music vs a true, weighty rock sound. Whenever I hear a live Doors recording it sounds like a douchey restaurant band turned up too loud, punching WAY above their weight in a huge concert hall (which makes the organ-bass even more diffused!). I LOVE a lot of the studio stuff - Peace Frog, Riders, WASP, LA Woman.... But at the end of the day, they were just a good studio band with a few hits and an overblown "mystique" that couldn't translate live, and whose leader was a drunk, belligerent a-hole with a Messiah complex. Pass.

Johnny Hype-meister here... apparently... maybe I just get a bit jumpy as spring arrives and I'm gonna hit the road soon, with highlights of recent releases in my pickup's CD player. BUT! Now that DaP 26's release (or sale) is announced -- and I am always grateful for more Pigpen, especially his return to the fold in December '71 -- how does that bode for the Anthem reissue announcement ? Another '68 show emerging from the crypt, Sweet Jesus! And then: the mystery box. Bolo said bacon would kill me, but he didn't say when. Operator, can you hep me Hep me if you please Give me the right area code And the number that I need My rider left upon the midnight flyer Singin' like a summer breeze............

Ok so be it. The Doors broke some sort of rule that you must have a stringed bass player in your live Rock band configuration. And I totally get the preference of wanting to hear the standard rock instruments as they should be. I too hated Jerry on Midi and Bobby with that awful early solid state 90's processed distortion. I much prefer the Europe 72 era sound of strats, gibson's and tube amps. And speaking of the dime-store sandwich: Brent committed all types of fouls plinking away on that faux sounding keyboard rather than sticking to the B3 or an acoustic piano. I too appreciate more of a heroin laid back abuser on stage rather than a belligerent drunk in a leather rock and roll outfit. Basically I could go on and on. I just think you are a bit insulting to the Doors as a live act & Morrison as a person. To each their own, many of us like the Doors live. And their really are no rules in Rock and Roll (and there is no H in Wimp)

I have to agree with Thin that The Doors great music seems to have been recorded in the studio, not played live. Particularly, their first album and Strange Days. The song Strange Days may be my favourite recording of theirs. I liked the mysterious, psychedelic sound of their earlier music much more than their later blues based music. But just on record-I am not keen on the live recordings I have heard from 1967. I would also think that the thinness in sound came from the way they tried to reproduce bass, using an organ instead a bass guitar. But there have been plenty of very convincing and powerful live rock/blues bands who haven't used bass guitars. Off the top of my head-The Cramps, Hound Dog Taylor and the HouseRockers, The White Stripes, The Black Keys... They didn't use an organ either, though.

Wow - shots fired! Sorry if that offended, but frankly if you can't read an honest, unfiltered opinion on the internet without coming unglued, you 're in the wrong place. Let's take a breath here and review.... you wrote "broke some sort of rule that you must have a stringed bass player"? I was merely explaining why the Doors are often characterized as "thin" sounding, and using an example I gleaned from a recent live-music experience. Also.... "And speaking of the dime-store sandwich: Brent committed all types of fouls plinking away on that faux sounding keyboard rather than sticking to the B3 or an acoustic piano"... Well yeah, but that was a phase, and it didn't dictate the band's overall sound. Again, all I was doing was making an intelligent argument as to why the Doors sound is often characterized as "thin". Finally you sarcastically wrote: "I too appreciate more of a heroin laid back abuser on stage rather than a belligerent drunk" OK, 1) Yes, I WOULD much prefer to be in a room with a laid back heroin user than a belligerent drunk - I think most people would agree with me, but I may be wrong! And 2) I have been VERY vocal about my disappointment/disgust with Jerry's heroin addiction, self absorption, and the effects it had on him and the music (i.e.: my Highgate '94 experience) to the point where I have been heartily flamed on this board and in PM's for "attacking" and "ridiculing" Jerry, when all I was doing was bluntly stating unvarnished facts, just as I did in my previous comment. If you can find a single fact I stated that is untrue, please point it out to ALL of us and I will retract. And I mis-spelled "wimp"? I'll take your word for it! No offense intended. With all due respect, if all you want to hear is sunshine being blown up the Lizard King's hoo-ha, you're in the wrong place.

Thanks in advance!

JRF check pm's

I don't know shit, but I thought the bass line on his B3 was carried by the foot pedals? Took organ lessons a whole year and right hand lead, left hand rhythm, left foot bass line, right foot swell (volume). The rest of the time you spent changing which pipes you were gonna use! .....you can not petition the lord with prayer.

Sorry Thin I guess I was just pointing out how you can look at almost any band and find faults not to our liking. I don't consider that coming all unglued. I defended the Doors and pointed out that a lot of your opinion is as I said previously a bit insulting. It's all good and you are entitled to your opinion. But just know that it may rub people that like that band the wrong way. There was a bunch of love for Kiss here a ways back. I kept quiet and let them enjoy who they enjoy. And if I did say something it would not be a negative shot at Gene or Paul that insults their character or what not. It's all about the music and I take many of your points as being valid. Sorry for getting a bit combative there. And yes this is the internet, if your harsh unfiltered opinion comes out in open forum, you may find people who disagree and will shoot back. I think I am in the right place, but it must have been the wrong time.

regarding this Doors talk:I have never thought they had a "thin" live sound , nor have I encountered any previous talk about such a problem. I am a huge Doors fan. Thin, the commenter: You have been stating and restating your Doors opinions for a few days now, each time increasing the vehemence of your statements. From a Doors fan perspective you have been trolling. You triggerred Reijo. You are the one who set up the wrestling ring. You are the one who called out for opponents. Don't be acting all defensive now. And just listen to "When The Music's Over" from Absolutely Live. Then apologize for the lackings in your musical education.

....I've been known to enjoy a little Culture Club every now and then.

Ray Manzarek used a Fender Rhodes Piano Bass (Not a Hammond). My opinion is that it wasn't an ideal sound for a live bass...but the Doors knew that too, that's why they used an actual bass player on their albums. I know that Jerry once said that he didn't like the Doors because of their thin live sound...I don't disagree with many things Jerry said, but this is certainly one of them. Considering The Doors only had 3 people playing instruments on stage, I think the sound is quite full. Ray had 3 jobs (keys, bass, & singing), Densmore often sounded like two different drummers and had very explosive style that brought tons of excitement and energy to their shows and his ability to improvise with Jim's rants is about as unique as it gets. All that mixed with Krieger's weird finger-picking Flamenco guitar created a sound like no other in rock music. But it is what it is and no one has to like it...but I don't think it gets much better in terms of musicianship. Anyone still on the fence? Find a live version of "When the Music's Over" and remind yourself that only 3 people are making all those sounds...

You beat me to the punch, Seth. I was just about to chime in. Thin has clearly been baiting for bear on this topic, and the minute he heard the trap snap, he was all over his catch. There's nothing at all "unglued" about Reijo29's rebuttal. In fact, just the opposite. It's a cohesive, straightforward post (and even concedes to certain points made by Thin). And certainly nothing that warranted such a vitriolic response.

A naked blonde walks into a bar, carrying a poodle under one arm and a 6 foot salami under the other. The Bardtender says, 'So, I don't suppose you'd be needing a drink?' The blonde says.... Oh shit my boss is coming, will finish the joke later.

Thank you Mustin for echoing my previous statement about only 3 guys having to make that music. They will never sound like a full fleshed out jam band. And for really illuminating how wonderfully explosive Densmore played live, as a counterpoint to Morrison's anything may happen on stage performance. (almost Elvin Jones-ish). I still stand by my assertion that these guys were not as Thin said "some douchey restaurant band"

JACKSON: we're doing an issue of bam magazine on the doors GARCIA: i never liked the doors. i found them terribly offensive...when we played with them. it was back when jim morrison was just a pure mick jagger copy. that was his whole shot, that he was a mick jagger imitation. not vocally, but his moves, his whole physical appearance were totally stolen from right around mick jagger's 1965 tour of the states. he used to move around alot, before he started to earn a reputation as a poet, which i thought was really undeserved. rimbaud was great at eighteen,nineteen, and verlaine. those guys were great. fuckin jim morrison was not great, i'm sorry. i could never see what it was about the doors. they had a very brittle sound live., a three piece band with no bass- the organ player (manzarek) used to do it. that and that kinda raga-rock guitar style was strange. it sounded very brittle and sharp -edged to me., not something i enjoyed listening to. i kind of apreciated some of the stuff they did later, and i appreciated a certain amount of morrison's sheer craziness, just because that's always a nice trait in rock n roll. no, i never knew him, but richard loren, who works for us, was his agent and had to babysit him through his most drunken scenes and all the times he got busted and all that crap. he's got lots of storeies to tell about morrison. i was never attracted to their music at all, so i couldn't find anything to like about them. when we played with them, i think i watched the first tune or two, then i went upstairs and fooled around with my guitar. there was nothing there that i wanted to know about. he was so patently an imitation of mick jagger that it was offensive. to me, when the doors played san francisco they typified los angeles coming to san francisco., which i equated with having the look right, but zero substance. this is way before that hit song, light my fire. probably at that time in their development it was too early for anyone to make a decent judgement of them, but i've always looked for something else in music, and whatever it was, they didn't have it. they didn't have anything of blues, for example , in their sound or feel. JACKSON: DID you sense the negativity? jerry: no, not really. all i sensed was sham. as far as i was concerned, it was surface and no substance. then we played with them after the light my fire thing, when they were headliners. we opened for them in santa barbara some years later, when they were a little more popwerful. their sound had gotten better- they'd gotten more effectively amplified, so manzarek's bass lines and stuff like that had a little more throb, but their sound was still thin. it wasn't a succesful version of a three piece band, like the who or jimi hendrix, or cream, or any other guitar power trio type three piece bands. it's an interesting concept, a three piece band that's keyboard, guitar, drums, but it was missing some element i thought was vital. i couldn't say exactly what it was, but it was not satisfying for me to listen to them. when they were the headliners, it was sort of embarrasing for us to open for them, cause we sort of blew them off the stand with just sheer power. what we had with double drums and phil's bass playing-it got somewhere, and when they played there was an anticlimax feeling to it, even with their hits. in the part of my life when i was impressionable along that androgynous input, for me the people that were happening were james dean and elvis. early rock and roll- i'm like first generation rock and roll influence. for me, james dean was a real important figure. he was the romantic fulfillment of that vision. it goes on about other things, but jerr really thrashes the doors here. and of course, he's right on. taken from conversations with the dead. 6/11/81.

I think it's funny that Thin is the person saying the sound is thin. Of all the Merry Pranksters!

And the blonde says "No, but you're going to need one in a minute!" Or... And the blonde says "Oh I'm sorry. I thought it was Amateur Talent Show night." Or... And the blonde says "No. We're here to audition. The three of us are a Doors cover band."

Dennis - You can play the bass with the foot pedals OR the left hand. Not sure what Manzarek used, but I though I recalled him playing it with left hand. In the band I spoke of, when the bass player IS there, B3 dude doesn't bother setting up his foot pedals, but I know he uses left hand for the bass sometimes as well. Rejoi29 - No problem. I just call them like I see them, as do you. Apologies if I offended. It's all good. I just don't think any statement of opinion contrary to your opinion is a justification for a personal attack. Speaking of which..... Seth - C'mon dude... 1) You've NEVER heard anyone say the Doors sounded a bit thin because they didn't use a bass player live? EVER??? Ummm, OK.... 2) you wrote: "Then apologize for the lackings in your musical education". Wow Seth - I really don't know how to respond to that! (and who's trolling who?). But I'll listen to it. But I have a follow-on question: Why did all the Doors albums require a stringed-bass player instead of a the B3 organ for the bassline? If my explanation of the B3 vs stringed-bass sound is irrelevant in that conversation, I look forward to hearing yours. Thanks. Edit: I just read the Jerry quotes below.... Seth, are you gonna put up with that? Jerry's "trolling" you about the Doors! Go ahead and tell Jerry how he's "lacking in his musical education" because he doesn't like their live sound!!! :)

how to read. It is important.

All the albums did not require a bass player. I believe they first started using bass players on some of Strange Days and other recordings. And that first album is amazing. Give it a listen Thin, you may like it

Larry Knechtel played bass on some of the songs on the 1st album.

Thanks Rejoi29 - I'll check it out. Maybe the first album had no bass player? Who knows. From Rolling Stone: "The Doors famously lacked a bassist during live sets, instead relying on Ray Manzarek's Fender Rhodes' keyboard bass to lock into the rhythm with Densmore. For their studio albums, the band quietly supplemented their core lineup with session pros handling the low end. Some of these contributions were overdubbed separately from the band, but for L.A. Woman, they wanted the live sound of musicians playing together. Botnick suggested Jerry Scheff, fresh from backing Elvis Presley at Las Vegas' International Hotel. Morrison, a massive Presley fan, was thrilled. So was Densmore. " Again, I love the Doors. Always have - listened to them a TON in high school (very high...). I just never dug their live stuff - was always disappointed when I tracked down the DATs... similar to Jerry's "I can't put my finger on it but it didn't grab me".... It was when I heard that other band a few months ago and started talking to the B3 player about how (and why) he likes having a string bass on stage that it clicked - that's why I brought it up.

Jerry said similar things about The Doors in another interview where, like the interview posted below, Jerry emphasized more so -- after the criticism -- that he did like their later records. My guess would be that Jerry liked The Doors last two records Morrison Hotel and LA Woman which have a strong blues influence. Regarding the thin live sound of The Doors: I understand what Jerry means. I really like The Doors and have a number of their archive live releases. From Absolutely Live as someone mentioned When The Music's Over live is fantastic and sounds very rich despite there bring only three instruments. I mentioned earlier that The Doors themselves were aware of the 'thinness' issue as other described their live sound. They were planning a more proper tour after LA Woman and wanted to bring Elvis' bassist Jerry Sheff on that tour. Unfortunately JimBo went to that Big Cabaret Above too soon. Absolutely Live and the expanded cd version The Doors Live are great listens, by the way. Jim's stage banter reveal a true character! I have some boots of The Doors reunited tours, 21 Century, Riders on the Storm, their names changed due to legal issues. They sounded great. I think I have more of these boots with Bret Scallions as opposed to Ian Astbury. Scallions sounds great. I highly recommend giving them a listen. They do not sound thin from what I recall and manage to pull of the song The Soft Parade with all of its changes and intricacies very, very, well. I believe some poster here who plays guitar said that a guitar teacher thinks Robbie Krieger is a truly great player and the one he most admirers. I like Krieger but I found that surprising. I guess there is something to that raga-rock thing or flamenco on electric? With the Jerry on The Doors comments I would really love to know more about what Jerry meant by the Raga-Rock thing being strange and not working for him. Hey Bob , Phil can you shed some light on that? And what did you think of The Doors then and now? This is a special place with lots of thoughtfulness and insights. Peace to all.

That was a very interesting post detailing Jerry's dislike of the Doors. It sounds like he really got turned off by them in 1965. But to say they are not bluesy at all. I have to disagree. Back door man on the first record, Roadhouse Blues later on and Cars hiss by my window on the last are outright blues tunes done well. And that version of Who Do You Love on Absolutely Live is a great keyboard driven take on the blues. I mean Neil Young is the least bit bluesy, but so what. He is still great. First I disagree with Thin and now Jerry.....

Didn't want to leave people hanging ;-) I think the Doors cover band punchline is most appropriate. I watched a great Doors documentary on Netflix a couple of weeks ago. Good stuff.

All I can say is, this fighting better stop before Daddy gets home.

Even though Jerry thinks he was a Jagger copy, I think Morrison modeled his stage image after Gene Vincent, especially the black leather and the way he handled the microphone.

From what I understand, Jerry was commenting on how the doors sounded in 1966 or very early 67. At that time, the Doors had cheaper equipment and did alot more covers. Weird to see Jerry slam another group of musicians in such a harsh and dismissive way, especially if it was just based off a couple early shows he saw before they had even really become the Doors we all know and had their sound dialed in. There is the story of Ray Manzerek and Pigpen having a heated exchange over the use of some keyboards during a show in which they were both billed, I think that indident could actually be one of the main reasons Jerry had such hard feelings towards them. I personally really enjoy quite a few of the Door's available live recordings, and I don't seem to find their sound to be nearly as "thin" as most people do. Maybe that thin sound, just sounds to me like how the Doors are supposed to sound.

I've been listening to road trips Austin 1971 November 15th getting ready for Dave's picks 26. The Sound quality is really really good. I have not listen to this in a long time. And the set list is really really good. I hope Dave's picks 26 sounds this good.

From Ray's book... "The Dead’s support system was enormous. They had huge amps and many roadies, old ladies and groupies and yes-men, personal cooks and gophers and gurus and soundmen and manager types. Consequently, they had no need for normal human intercourse and/or discourse. They were completely insulated. It was a little world of its own and they were perfectly content to remain inside…with you locked out. I never did get to know any of them. I barely talked to any of them. I did try to communicate with their organ player, one “Pig Pen,” but that turned into a complete fiasco. Here’s what happened. The Doors and the Dead are playing together at some outdoor festival–type gig. The Dead are the headliners (it’s early ’67). They have a ****ing wall of amplifiers. It’s like the wall in Fritz Lang’s Destiny. It dwarfs any human standing in front of it. And drum sets, two of them. And guitars everywhere. And…a Vox Continental Organ! Just like mine. Set up stage right. Just where I set up. They have a sound check in the afternoon and it takes forever. They noodle, they fool around, they play out of tune, they try to tune up…but fail…and finally play a song. Vocals are out of harmony, guitars are tuned to some arcane, eccentric mode that each musician has kept as his own private secret, not telling the fellow next to him what the mode is, and the rhythm section is at cross purposes with each other, laying down what seems to be two separate and distinct rock beats that have no relation to each other. In other words, it’s a typical Grateful Dead song/jam. They finish and, to them, everything seems fine. The musicians begin to leave the stage and the roadies lovingly gather up all the guitars. Everything else has to stay exactly where it is. The drums are not allowed to be moved. Pig Pen’s organ must not be moved. Fritz Lang’s wall of Destiny is impossible to move. For our sound check—and performance—John’s drums will have to be set up on the floor, in front of the existing pair of drum risers. No riser for John. The Dead have taken both of them. John’s pissed, as well he should be. I take the opportunity to run up to Pig Pen. I don’t know whether to call him “Pig” or “Mr. Pen.” Mister sounds a bit formal between long-hairs and “Pig” sounds like an insult. I opted for the all-purpose, ubiquitous “man.” “Hey, man,” I say, bounding onto the stage before he retreats into the womblike miasma of Dead sycophants. “I’m the keyboard player with the Doors.” “So?…” He’s slow and unenthusiastic. I extend my hand but he doesn’t take it. Actually, he doesn’t even really see it. His pace is slow. I try to be jolly. “I play a Vox Continental just like yours.” “It can’t be moved,” he says. “I know that.” I smile, hoping to somehow communicate with this fellow musician. “What I want to ask is…instead of bringing my organ onstage and placing it in front of yours…I simply use yours.” “You wanna what?” He is slow. “I want to use your Vox. I play the exact same thing. I’ll just set my piano bass on top of your organ and it’ll all be simple and easy. Nothing has to be moved.” His head starts to shake back and forth. He isn’t liking the idea. But he is understanding the idea. I’m thankful for that. I press on. "If I have to bring my organ up, I’ll have to set it up right in front of yours. I play on the same side of the stage, just like you.” “So…?” “Then there’ll be two Vox organs on stage. One in front of the other. It’ll look ridiculous. People will think, ‘Why are there two identical organs onstage? Why doesn’t the guy from the Doors play the one that’s already there? Why did he have to bring up a duplicate organ?’ You see, man, it’s absurd.” Wrong word. Pig Pen didn’t like that word. His face scrunched up. Absurd was not a word that was used in the Grateful Dead camp. Too revealing. Too pointed. Even too inner-directed. The Doors, at least Jim and Ray, used the word freely. After all, isn’t the post–World War II second half of the twentieth century totally absurd? Do we have to add to the absurdity? Isn’t the whole point of psychedelics to break down the walls of absurdity and reestablish a divine intuition amongst the human species on this good earth? Well, of course it is. And the Grateful Dead is supposed to be psychedelic, but here I am having an absurd conversation with a person called Pig Pen. Man! “Nobody uses the Grateful Dead’s equipment,” he finally said. It was like the Dead party line and he had it well memorized. “I’m not asking to use the Dead’s equipment. I know these amps are all custom built for you guys. We’ll use our own amps. And we’ll use our own drums.” “Damn right you will,” Pig grunted. He was getting testy. “I know every drummer has his own setup. But the Vox organ…it’s generic.” “What…?” “They’re all the same! Yours is just like mine. They’re identical. It would be so clean and easy if I didn’t have to bring mine up.” I gave him my best back-slapping smile of camaraderie. “What do ya say, man? Come on, can I use your organ?” He paused for a couple of beats. Nice dramatic moment, I thought. Then the hammer…“No way, Jack. I told you, no one uses the Grateful Dead’s equipment.” And he turned and lumbered off, into the miasma. I gave his retreating back a peace sign and muttered to myself…“Share and share alike, ehh, brother?” Then more loudly to his rear end girth…“Peace and love, man.” He didn’t even hear me. He was lost in his own little world. His very secure little world. It was an absurd encounter." -- Thanks Mr. Dc for mentioning that. I didn't know about this tale.

....ABSURD.

...Jim Morrison faked his death in Paris. He is alive and well and living in South Africa, or Honduras... or maybe Las Vegas, I hear he's a big fan of the all-you-can-eat buffets.

Does seem like the typical opener/headliner dynamics at work. There might be some slight exaggeration in there :-) "guitars are tuned to some arcane, eccentric mode that each musician has kept as his own private secret, not telling the fellow next to him what the mode is..."

Seth - Listened to "Music's Over" from Absolutely Live. Great version! Very passionate. Now for that apology: I'm truly very sorry for you that your favorite recording doesn't have more low end. Maybe that's "their sound" and y'all like it, which is great, but its not my bag (and that's OK!). The organ (non-bass), cymbals/snare, and vocals are all very high in the mix and "up front" making the overall sound mid-high. Guitar mid-volume. The "bass" (or simulated bass) is clearly lower in the mix (my EQ reflects this) and of course has the organ sound -"wuf" instead of "bop" - no compression. I'd do anything to hear a real bass at full volume in there, especially in the dynamic part of the jam where the band is "3/3 timing" (11:00~). Actually, it would be nice to hear the bass do ANYTHING more inventive than redundantly repeat the EXACT same pattern over and over... no variation whatsoever! I find it distractingly redundant... A separate bass player would have been a little louder and "present", and would have been able to focus on a little more creativity with the bassline, unlike Manzarek who was distracted with his right hand lead he was playing much of the time. Can you imagine Brent repeating the same 4 bass notes throughout a 15 minute Dark Star so he could focus on the right hand, and saying "Yeah, I'm glad Phil's not here - Brent on bass sounds JUST as good!". I think Jerry's opinion of the Doors was possibly colored by the fact that Morrison stood for everything things Jerry couldn't relate to: self importance, L.A., proclamation of himself as a Lizard King and all the accompanying pantomime, the sex symbol thing, whipping out his dick, the drunk/belligerent screaming persona and all the stories he heard from the guy who had to "handle' Morrison during his boozy aggravated arrests - NOT a guy I could imagine chilling on a couch and shooting the breeze with Jerry. That combined with Jerry's opinion that their live sound was "very brittle sound live, a three piece band with no bass" (and ALL the other stuff he said about their music) left him flat from a musical AND character perspective. deadegad - Thanks for sharing that "The Doors themselves were aware of the 'thinness' issue as other described their live sound. They were planning a more proper tour after LA Woman and wanted to bring Elvis' bassist Jerry Sheff on that tour". I didn't realize that they were planning to finally add a bass player on stage.... that's a tour I would have liked to hear.

First off Thin, glad you got to listen to that. And I guess I take those shortcomings in lack of full sound as simply being the sound of the Doors. And I do sometimes have an issue with the repetitive simple organ Bass lines. Great point on that. But overall I like it and I think Ray repeats a lot as he is waiting on Jim to do what he does. Perhaps he gives Jim the space and hopes that Jim behaves and keeps somewhat to the structure of the song. I may be biased in liking most of it cause I grew up with it. Mustin- Thanks so much for posting that Ray Manzarek story. It's interesting in getting a taste of the polar opposite dynamic of the LA and San Francisco rock scene. The whole I don’t know whether to call him “Pig” or “Mr. Pen” had me cracking up out loud. It's good to laugh at all this. Sounds like a true Spinal Tap moment the day the Doors encountered the Dead. Both bands seemed to take themselves a bit too seriously that day of the shared bill.

Can somebody close the fucking Doors already? The stench of self-stroking insecurity is flooding the room.

I apologize for mentioning the Doors about 120 posts ago. Didn't realize what the consequences would be.

Thanks for taking responsibility SimonRob for this Doors debate. But seriously another Dave's is coming our way so as The Partridge Family sings "Com'on get Happy!" Hmmnnn. . .. Did The Doors and The Partridge Family ever cross paths?